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On July 11 2011 00:35 mr_tolkien wrote:
I was just wondering : why do sentries have an attack ?
Only 2 spellcasters in the game have attacks, the Sentry and the Ghost.
The fact that the ghost has an attack is quite understandable, regarding its high cost and the fact he has cloack (only useful if he has an attack).
But why does the sentry have nearly the same DPS as a marine, with the same mineral cost, and better spells than the infestor (regarding mana*usability), for a cheaper gas cost ?
This makes absolutely no sense to me, because Sentries are big glass balls and fire a Tazer while casting spells, but still have very decent DPS.
And this is a motherfriggin blog, YES I can't hide that the fact that before BLs Z doesn't have a clean response to FFs is quite getting on me lately.
First they don't have the same dps as a marine, it's not even close. Damage does not equal damage over time...
Secondly, that would mean the marine is just as imbalanced, why does it cost 100 gas cheaper and do the same dps? Better spells than the infestor? The infestor can deal huge AoE damage and keep units in place as well as steal units. It's all a matter of opinion.
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Sentries don't attack, they tickle. For a low price of 50/100.
edit: I'm stupid.
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On July 11 2011 01:19 Korinai wrote:
Sentries don't attack, they tickle. For a low price of 50/150.
50/100?
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On July 11 2011 01:11 aRRoSC2 wrote:
The only problem with their attack is that it's higher range than roaches (5 > 4), see IdrA vs Cruncher in TSL3. To be honest though, I can't tell if that's a problem or not, but with proper forcefield donuts it sure looks stupid.
How is this a problem? When was the last time you saw a group of sentries (yes, sentries - no stalkers or zealots) make a forcefield donut and kill a bunch of roaches??
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lol tihs guy.
imagine a pvz sentry expand where they did no damage. HE HAS 9 SENTRIES 1 ZEALOT BUT 6 ZERGLINGS ARE COMING TO PRESSURE AHHH
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On July 11 2011 01:19 Saracen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 01:11 aRRoSC2 wrote:
The only problem with their attack is that it's higher range than roaches (5 > 4), see IdrA vs Cruncher in TSL3. To be honest though, I can't tell if that's a problem or not, but with proper forcefield donuts it sure looks stupid. How is this a problem? When was the last time you saw a group of sentries (yes, sentries - no stalkers or zealots) make a forcefield donut and kill a bunch of roaches??
Nony tl attack versus a silver player, look how imbalanced that is, Nony was only 3 league higher than him.
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On July 11 2011 00:40 TheSubtleArt wrote:
Sentries have the dps of marines? Thats new to me
6 for the Sentries, 7 for the marine, not that far. Same range also. Same movement speed as well. But Sentries have almost twice their health.
On July 11 2011 00:39 Chill wrote:
Can you imagine a game where sentries can't attack? I'm seriously loling that you think this is reasonable.
You can «lol» all you want, I never said what you put in my mouth. I just said that from a visual/gameplayish (spellcaster) point of view, it makes little to no sense to me that sentries can attack and be kinda good at it. Seeing a Toss opening with TEN «defensive» spellcasters + 4 Zealots and being able to kill units with this seems stupid to me.
On July 11 2011 00:44 Megaliskuu wrote:
I'm rank 1 platinum league, so I'm pretty good at sc2, and I must say this blog is terrible.
"YES I can't hide that the fact that before BLs Z doesn't have a clean response to FFs is quite getting on me lately."
You are crazy.
I'm top 800 in EU, and this is just a fact, good FFs are a pain in the ass to deal with before BLs. Baneling drops are useless if the guy is Blink stalker heavy, Mutas get wrecked by well upgraded Stalkers and are generally very hard to get in high numbers, infestor will get trapped behind FFs... You have to rely on a mistake from the Toss to be able to go around FFs as long as he doesn't have anything detering him from doing them.
On July 11 2011 00:46 ooni wrote:
So let's give fungal to sentries and FF infestors, you know since FF is just better. That will balance the game!
In fact I find fungal equally terrible as FF, it's a stupid spell that can kill a lot of micro possibilities from an opponent. But Toss, once he gets Templars, can circonvent fungals and prevent them from even happening.
I really think changing fungal to a slowing spell would be a good move, as well as making FFs more interesting. Maybe impossibility to place them ON units would be a good start.
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I thought protoss needed all the help it could get early game...
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I think it follows much the same concept as blink stalkers - if you have too few units, you aren't going to do anything due to sentries and stalkers outranging your units and getting free damage, but if you have just a few more you can weather the forcefields, take some damage/casualties because of them but then exploit the sentry ticklebeam once you can actually attack them. Same with blink stalkers, if you have a few too few units you aren't going to kill any, but if you have a few more you break into the hurt ones and it becomes a slaughterfest. So no, I think them having an attack is necessary and fine.
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Sentries throw down a FF donut and tickle stuff with their laser beams, never a miscommunication.
Can't explain it though.
Or maybe I can: it gives protoss a bunch more safe expand builds. If there was just cannon FE, zergs would learn to abuse that. And if the only FE build became easy to beat it would be Beta all over again with 5 minute average game length.
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Let me state again I never thought it was a remotly good idea to remove the attack from sentries. It just doesn't sound right to have a friggin glass ball be as powerful as Jims Raynor.
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Drop a changeling and have it sap your opponent's sentries. Problem solved.
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
On July 11 2011 01:33 mr_tolkien wrote:
Let me state again I never thought it was a remotly good idea to remove the attack from sentries. It just doesn't sound right to have a friggin glass ball be as powerful as Jims Raynor.
?
On July 11 2011 00:35 mr_tolkien wrote:
I was just wondering : why do sentries have an attack ?
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On July 11 2011 01:33 mr_tolkien wrote:
Let me state again I never thought it was a remotly good idea to remove the attack from sentries. It just doesn't sound right to have a friggin glass ball be as powerful as Jims Raynor.
When was the last time you saw marines winning a fight with no stim? With stim they have 4 more dps as well as more movement speed. Also, 100 gas? You spend 100 gas you get a banshee. Since you like dps so much, oh look 19 dps to 6 dps.
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On July 11 2011 01:33 mr_tolkien wrote:
Let me state again I never thought it was a remotly good idea to remove the attack from sentries. It just doesn't sound right to have a friggin glass ball be as powerful as Jims Raynor.
It's a technologically-advanced glass ball that shoots a laser beam, creates holographs, summons up invincible walls, and forms protective barriers.
Fuck Jim Raynor.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On July 11 2011 01:36 OreoBoi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 01:33 mr_tolkien wrote:
Let me state again I never thought it was a remotly good idea to remove the attack from sentries. It just doesn't sound right to have a friggin glass ball be as powerful as Jims Raynor. When was the last time you saw marines winning a fight with no stim? With stim they have 4 more dps as well as more movement speed. Also, 100 gas? You spend 100 gas you get a banshee. Since you like dps so much, oh look 19 dps to 6 dps.
Also note that once you get Banshees cloak they become spellcasters too o.O
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Sentries have an attack in order to be viable... If they couldn't attack toss could not get any/many sentries early due to the constant threat of marine respectively zergling pushes. A toss without forcefields could not leave his base for quite a while. Basically, sentries without attack would limit protoss build orders significantly :S
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On July 11 2011 01:35 illsick wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 01:33 mr_tolkien wrote:
Let me state again I never thought it was a remotly good idea to remove the attack from sentries. It just doesn't sound right to have a friggin glass ball be as powerful as Jims Raynor. ? Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 00:35 mr_tolkien wrote:
I was just wondering : why do sentries have an attack ?
Yes, I'm just wondering if SC2 could have been designed with non attacking sentries instead of the ones we have know. Implementing this in the game as it is would OF COURSE be dumb as it wasn't made to.
But why did they chose to create such a unit, with decent DPS, spells usable in offensive and defensive posture, OK mobility, and scouting (hallu) ? It's just a no brainer and takes away decision making to have such a unit.
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On July 11 2011 01:04 Saracen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 00:42 Chill wrote:
I also like how you just combine irrelevant stats about units. Like I can't believe a Zergling has a quarter the cost of a Zealot, produces faster, runs faster, and has 2 upgrades and 1 evolution compared to the Zealot's 1. This is bullshit. Sounds like a used car salesman. I can't believe an ultralisk has 100 more hitpoints than a bunker, has less build time than a mothership, attack as fast as a marine, has fifteen times the collision size of a zergling, gets a speed bonus on creep, burrows just as well as a baneling, is immune to snare, stun and mind control effects, can cast a level five fireball with a +2 damage modifier if you press a specific random sequence of buttons, has twice the cost of a chicken sandwich, and takes up less than half the supply of Jack Black. How dare you, Blizzard?
Working as intended.
None the less, The problem isn't the Sentry itself it's the force field ability. Such a thing is so hard to balance.
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
On July 11 2011 01:42 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 01:35 illsick wrote:On July 11 2011 01:33 mr_tolkien wrote:
Let me state again I never thought it was a remotly good idea to remove the attack from sentries. It just doesn't sound right to have a friggin glass ball be as powerful as Jims Raynor. ? On July 11 2011 00:35 mr_tolkien wrote:
I was just wondering : why do sentries have an attack ?
Yes, I'm just wondering if SC2 could have been designed with non attacking sentries instead of the ones we have know. Implementing this in the game as it is would OF COURSE be dumb as it wasn't made to. But why did they chose to create such a unit, with decent DPS, spells usable in offensive and defensive posture, OK mobility, and scouting (hallu) ? It's just a no brainer and takes away decision making to have such a unit.
then if that's what you mean then you wouldn't say "why do sentries have an attack"
you would say "why do we have a unit like sentries in the game"
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EPT
