EPTi don't understand
Getting beat all the time on ladder by cheese - Page 2
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
i don't understand | ||
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Geordie
United Kingdom653 Posts
On July 03 2011 10:43 arb wrote: You seem super hardcore elitist for someone who's in gold league. i don't understand what am I supposed to say to this? o_o also, this blog was kind of made in jest in a way but it seems nobody has caught on. sucks. | ||
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Cyclone999
Canada331 Posts
7-9 months ago when I got Starcraft, he was calling me noob for being in Bronze. He then later quit Starcraft for shooting games and console games. 2 months ago, he came over. I played Starcraft as a diamond player. I won all my games on ladder (when he was watching.) I let him play a custom game. His strategy was 3 supply depots to wall off, barracks, double gas, mass supply depots at choke and mass siege tanks. Apparently that worked at diamond back then (?) He was also floating 2.5k minerals. Not saying that you are, but I think you're outdated on the game and I think that players have evolved since you last played, which is why you're losing a lot. | ||
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phiinix
United States1169 Posts
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Tegin
United States840 Posts
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HomicidaL
United States283 Posts
On July 03 2011 14:50 Cyclone999 wrote: My friend was in diamond during beta. 7-9 months ago when I got Starcraft, he was calling me noob for being in Bronze. He then later quit Starcraft for shooting games and console games. 2 months ago, he came over. I played Starcraft as a diamond player. I won all my games on ladder (when he was watching.) I let him play a custom game. His strategy was 3 supply depots to wall off, barracks, double gas, mass supply depots at choke and mass siege tanks. Apparently that worked at diamond back then (?) He was also floating 2.5k minerals. Not saying that you are, but I think you're outdated on the game and I think that players have evolved since you last played, which is why you're losing a lot. this^ I took a 3month break after playing for sixmonths counting beta, Diamond at the time was the highest, and I was high plat. I came back at the beginning of season 2, I was Plat and I thought wow they added another league, I thought to myself diamond here I come. 0-14 before I stopped and did research on the builds etc. I got demoted to gold!!! however I have now worked my way up the ranks and am now high diamond. I feel that I was way better then I ever was in season 1 by a mile, people in general got alot better and will continue in each season. | ||
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LlamaNamedOsama
United States1900 Posts
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Servius_Fulvius
United States947 Posts
Sometimes the cheese is easy to fend off, like a poorly executed 6 gate, or their big all-in attack is late and I slipped in a good counter thanks to a bad wall-in. And then there are the ridiculous proxies, zvz 8 pool+2 spines, canon rushes, void ray rushes, terrans who only know how to make banshees and do marine drops, and my personal favorite, the 5 gate chargelot rush! I guess the difference between you and me are the way we look at it. I don't mind the cheese because most the times I scout it and I'm getting better reaction timings down. Honestly, I think that polish is the only thing separating a gold player from being a diamond player. Just think of it this way - when you're diamond again you'll have a lot more experience under your belt! Here's a fun little example from three days ago. ZvZ @ xel naga. I play a roach-centric style. Upon scouting, I found that my opponent had walled himself in with a hatchery, roach warren, two spine crawlers and FOUR queens. Knowing this is a huge investment, I built up a roach army to go kill him. It failed, I was barely ahead, and I took a few extra bases. I got the best of each encounter, but then I got greedy and destroyed his natural at the expense of my army. They took out a saturated extra base, I fell behind, and 15 minutes later lost to ultras. Instead of saying "Holy crap, that guy was terrible!" I thought "Maybe I should expand while he's making a ridiculous wall because 15 roaches couldn't kill it" I have a bit of a theory on cheesers and the SC2 ladder. First of all, we have the people who think up their own strategies and the people who use those at higher levels as a model. Gold is an especially great place for those with personal builds to get stuck since stolen pro strategies are superior to them (that and their mechanics are probably terrible). This is where the crazy nonstandard play comes from. If they worked their way up from Bronze then they are very polished in the bizarre play-style. Nevertheless, there are great tools to use against them. I forgot which old BW commentator said it (I think it was Cholera, but not sure) - the best defense against nonstandard play is standard play. SC2 doesn't really have a reliable standard, but it's best to use tried-and-true strategies, even when your opponent is being weird. | ||
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Servius_Fulvius
United States947 Posts
Game 1 - Look for indicators of a proxy (i.e., nothing in their base). Gold players aren't great, but they're not so bad that they have NOTHING when they should have something. Crazy one-base play is pretty common with void rays, banshees, and banelings busts appearing as "fan favorites". Proxy locations can literally be anywhere on the map, but in my experience it's usually limited to general, easy-to-check locations. Game 2 - Same as Game 1, more or less Game 3 - Isn't it annoying when you know you've lost, but the other player is so bad they can't end the game? I believe this is because they have a great harass, but the rest of their game sucks. Even better are the players (especially terrans) who have lost, but try and see how long they can stay in and turtle like there's no tomorrow. Instead of twiddling your thumbs it may be better to GG and review the replay. Overall, it seems like you're not practicing enough/don't know how to practice, your strategies are only flushed out against a certain kind of opponent (i.e. you're great at macro games, but you play so many you don't know how to deal with strategies intended to kill you fast), or you're taking your rank WAY too seriously. | ||
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DeckOneBell
United States526 Posts
Typically, cheese forces an early game battle of micro and decision making, with very little macro involved. Stay cool and you'll probably win, either as the cheeser or cheese'ee. Unless you know, there cheese is incredibly genius or something. Also, just hitting people are weird timings can feel really frustrating for the player getting hit. You feel like you're safe, so you decide to focus on economy instead of units, then suddenly, they never took that natural, and they never built more than 24 workers, so they have a giant army knocking on your door. I mean, I got raped a lot of time by zergling allins at a late-ish point in the game, there's so many units, and you just don't see it coming. It happens. Just learn to read your opponent better. When people say "scout" better, it means a lot, but it's more than just sending workers or dropping good scans. Poking in (as a toss, which I play) with two zealots and a stalker early on is not only aggressive, but also great scouting. How many units do they have? Did they need to pull workers? Is a bunker going up? etc etc Don't forget that an aggressive play that sacrifices a bit of economy might not completely END the player if it fails. As long as it does enough damage, it pays off so the aggressive player can equalize economy, and then focus on the rest of the game. | ||
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Kukaracha
France1954 Posts
If your opponent throws random stuff at your and you still lose despite the sloppy BO, then you just need to improve. Plat and below is all about "tricks" that can win the game, as Day9 coined it. | ||
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ThePurist
Canada686 Posts
On July 03 2011 08:35 Darclite wrote: I know purists will mock me, but I don't consider it a strategy game if I lose because I scouted them last and can't see what they're doing and proceed to lose to unskilled cheesers. I'm not going to mock ya lol  1) cheese yourself 2) raise your skill level, and teach yourself how to correctly deal with cheese 3) don't let it frustrate you, just remember it's a game and it should be played for fun GL | ||
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Denzil
United Kingdom4193 Posts
None the less against the banshees you can always build a second turret in each mineral line and halt building it at 95%. If the banshees come you send an SCV to finish it off if it doesn't come but you don't feel safe you keep it around if you finally feel safe you cancel it. | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On July 03 2011 08:35 Darclite wrote: I know purists will mock me, but I don't consider it a strategy game if I lose because I scouted them last and can't see what they're doing and proceed to lose to unskilled cheesers. Cheese and unorthodox play are part of the game. Scouting adapting, and trying to catch your opponent off guard are all part of a strategy game too. You think every game needs to contain the same cookiecutter strategies for you to acknowledge someone beat you? | ||
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Snugglebutt
England21 Posts
On July 03 2011 09:44 Ravencruiser wrote: If you get beat ALL the time by cheese even with the amount of theoretical practice/experience against cheese that you should have (since you ALWAYS get cheesed), then you're just a terrible player with no hope. I heard Hello Kitty Online is pretty fun. He may get frustrated at being owned by a level 1 starfish and having to sit down because he lost all his energy trying to beat it into submission. HKO is an awesome game don't knock it =( | ||
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