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Topic pretty much says it all, I'm currently ~950 master and have been for the last couple weeks. I'm at a point now where I'm starting to find the game more frustrating and annoying than fun. I used to think Starcraft was about brains, good strategic decision making as well as mechanics. As time goes on, I am slowly being proven wrong.
The catalyst for this post was a PvT I just played on Shakuras Plateau. Let me describe the game to you. I open up with a 2gate expo, he does a 1rax marauder expand.
I add 3 more gates and add twilight council, he adds 2 more rax (1 tech 1 reactor) and techs towards medivacs. Both of us just macro hard. I am ahead by 5-6 probes at all times. I immediately research charge when my tc is done, then add two forges and finally templar archives. He adds two engineering bays, and begins to pump medivacs from his reactor starport. Both of us are still on 2 base.
He runs up my nat choke and loses half his units between 3 forcefields and a bunch of zealots. Somehow I lost just as many minerals in zealots as he did in MM.
At 13 minutes this is what we have:
Me 102 supply, 56 probes, 3 archons 6 sentry, 9 zealot, 2 stalker. 7 gateways. 1/1 on the way just starting storm. Value of 1850/1475.
Him 108 Supply, 51 scv, 2 mule, 13 marauder 15 marine 3 medivac. Value of 2350/625.
He attacks up my nat choke again at around 14:30 right before storm is finished (I've been experimenting with making 2-4 archons as I get storm so that I'm not as vulnerable for that window before storm is done). I activate guardian shields, forcefield him in place (he can't run back down the choke) and my 1/1 chargelot/archon/sentry/stalker + 3 ht's without enough energy for storm engages him in close quarters.
I lose 6500 he loses 3400. I keep watching it over and over and even though he was slightly ahead in supply I fail to see how a bunch of guardian shielded chargelot/acrhon/sentry loses to marauder medivac in point blank range with decent surface area. I warp in more units and push him back, defending the attack but losing ~1800-1900 more resources than him. We both continue to pump upgrades.
We both start our expansions around 16 minutes. He has now added ghosts, my storm is done and I've added a robo so there are a few immortals in the mix. He is now ahead ~20 supply since he came out on top slightly and terran can mine faster off 2 base than toss.
He attacks into me again, eating two perfect storms on all of his units before he gets any emp's off. he micro's back, and is still cost effective somehow even after losing 4 medivacs to archon splash. At this point the units lost tab looks like 11400/9400.
I briefly have a unit advantage so I begin to push towards his 3rd, his reinforcements eventually clean me up. Units lost tab: 15000/12000.
He then immediately counters, I have no HT's with energy for storm left, and my chargelot/archon dies to his marauders, then he levels my 3rd nexus and the game ends.
In brood war when you attack into a fortified position, into units which are supposed to counter your own, and do so repeatedly against a player who is on even economic footing with equal upgrades YOU LOSE THE FUCKING GAME.
SC2 doesn't seem to be about skill or intelligence anymore. Even PvZ every other game consists of trying not to die to roach/ling all-ins.
At least pvp is getting better.
 
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of course its not about intelligence, but it is in mechanics
you didnt even post the replay, and judging from the way you post, youre probably pretty angry and biased, so in order for us to judge anything you have to provide us with a replay, im pretty sure you got owned in a regard you didnt notice
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Play Zerg for a week and come back.
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On May 19 2011 05:13 phfantunes wrote:
Play Zerg for a week and come back.
This, you want to be frustrated from a haphazard push? play vs T or P, fight a 200z vs 130p/t army, kill everything but like 20 supply, then lose because 20supply>50z supply if they are between hatcheries. And don't even get me started on P who turtle on 2 base then push at 200/200 at 20 min and beat 2 full supply max respawns.
Of course take this with a grain of salt, because no player is perfect.
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On May 19 2011 05:13 phfantunes wrote:
Play Zerg for a week and come back.
I also play zerg at the 900 masters level. If an idiot pushes into you and makes a bad decision. You usually just win.
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On May 19 2011 05:11 OutlaW- wrote:
of course its not about intelligence, but it is in mechanics
you didnt even post the replay, and judging from the way you post, youre probably pretty angry and biased, so in order for us to judge anything you have to provide us with a replay, im pretty sure you got owned in a regard you didnt notice
I made 4 cannons which didn't see use. (Its cheaper to make cannons that lose gate units and probes when you get dropped).
His +2 finished slightly before mine, right as he attacked.
He hit a timing where my templar had ~60 energy and storm was just finishing.
I made a couple micro mistakes where I lost an archon and a few chargelots.
I could have reinforced slightly faster with chargelots while pushing his 3rd.
These were enough to lose me the game. I'm not trying to say that terran is imba, or that I didn't make any mistakes and still lost. I'm just frustrated that people can get away with awful decision making and still come out on top. You shouldn't be able to attack into a shitty position repeatedly and get away with it. I don't remember a single situation in SC1 where someone could repeatedly attack into a choke point when their opponent had the correct counter unit composition and still come out on top. That is why I am frustrated, not because I lost.
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I felt this way for weeks back when I used to play Zerg. I always had this idea in my head that it was possible to improve your game and overcome any difficulty, but after a while a few problems simply began to seem insurmountable.
Being able to safely drone in close positions, for example. There is simply not enough time to react to an attack, so you are forced to over compensate with defense and a weaker economy. Being able to scout what cheese your opponent is doing was another. Idra has been bringing some attention to this recently, simply because it's easier to explain to people than more subtle problems.
Anyways I just decided that the game wasn't worth taking that seriously. I switched to random and just try to have more fun now. Maybe in a few months or years everything will be ironed out.
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On May 19 2011 05:33 jdseemoreglass wrote:
I felt this way for weeks back when I used to play Zerg. I always had this idea in my head that it was possible to improve your game and overcome any difficulty, but after a while a few problems simply began to seem insurmountable.
Being able to safely drone in close positions, for example. There is simply not enough time to react to an attack, so you are forced to over compensate with defense and a weaker economy. Being able to scout what cheese your opponent is doing was another. Idra has been bringing some attention to this recently, simply because it's easier to explain to people than more subtle problems.
Anyways I just decided that the game wasn't worth taking that seriously. I switched to random and just try to have more fun now. Maybe in a few months or years everything will be ironed out.
I hope so. I agree that zerg had alot of problems. I actually switched to protoss and found it alot less stressful in general, but that was when all of the maps where tiny and roaches only had 3 range etc. I find zerg is alot better now as far as playability goes. The larger maps and the few balance tweaks did wonders. I love the archon change in 1.3.3 and all, and I don't think pvt is imbalanced or anything, its just frustrating that there isn't huge consequences for terrans who make bad decisions.
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You play zerg and terran at 900 masters level, have 2400 posts yet you can't figure out that sc2 isn't BW or that you should post a replay?
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I feel that way sometimes, then I go back and ladder on iccup a bit to get my BW fix, they are different games yo u just gotta accept it  .
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Hyrule19029 Posts
Come play EVE
But seriously, it sounds like you got mad that he outplayed you with poor decision making that somehow hit perfect timings.
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On May 19 2011 05:45 tofucake wrote:Come play EVEBut seriously, it sounds like you got mad that he outplayed you with poor decision making that somehow hit perfect timings.
without a replay it sound exactly like that.
and 5-6 probes more than scv's is called being behind ^^
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the Dagon Knight4002 Posts
On May 19 2011 05:28 Wr3k wrote:
You shouldn't be able to attack into a shitty position repeatedly and get away with it.
I guess the biggest point to take away from this is that, if he was attacking into this position over and over and coming out ahead, then it clearly wasn't a shitty position for him to attack. He attacked it and continued costing you more money than himself... that sounds like he made the right decision.
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On May 19 2011 05:41 firexfred wrote:
You play zerg and terran at 900 masters level, have 2400 posts yet you can't figure out that sc2 isn't BW or that you should post a replay?
I know the reasons why I lost. If I was looking for help I would post in the strategy forums. At no point did I ask anyone to analyze my replay. I'm just venting frustration that running into a choke point vs zealot/sentry/archon with your marauders is somehow cost effective.
900+ protoss/zerg and 2400 posts taught me that the strategy forum is typically filled with bad advice and usually can't tell you anything you couldn't figure out with basic observation and reasoning. There is occasionally particularly insightful posts but most of it is idiots telling other idiots how to play. If I wanted you to analyze my replay I would have posted there. It's a blog for a reason. You think I want to pollute the strategy forum with content like this and contribute to the problem that makes it so useless? No.
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On May 19 2011 05:53 SirJolt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 05:28 Wr3k wrote:
You shouldn't be able to attack into a shitty position repeatedly and get away with it. I guess the biggest point to take away from this is that, if he was attacking into this position over and over and coming out ahead, then it clearly wasn't a shitty position for him to attack. He attacked it and continued costing you more money than himself... that sounds like he made the right decision.
That's why I'm pissed off. You would think running marauders into an equal cost army of units that are supposed to counter them and then getting forcefielded there would be a bad decision. Usually I don't get super mad, but this shit was just unbelievable. /endrant.
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rushing tech with double forge obviously isn't going to pay off until you have +2/2 and a couple of storms at your disposal..
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41 Posts
You should post the replay of the game so we can try to help you.
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I'm only top silver but if you got some Void Rays the Marauders sure would have died!
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Be prepared for players worse than you just simply telling you what you should have done, even if you are right and the game seems to be currently a lot of people just making a unit combo then throwing it at the other person or doing an all-in at the majority of skill levels.
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On May 19 2011 06:08 Wr3k wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 05:41 firexfred wrote:
You play zerg and terran at 900 masters level, have 2400 posts yet you can't figure out that sc2 isn't BW or that you should post a replay? I know the reasons why I lost. If I was looking for help I would post in the strategy forums. At no point did I ask anyone to analyze my replay. I'm just venting frustration that running into a choke point vs zealot/sentry/archon with your marauders is somehow cost effective. 900+ protoss/zerg and 2400 posts taught me that the strategy forum is typically filled with bad advice and usually can't tell you anything you couldn't figure out with basic observation and reasoning. There is occasionally particularly insightful posts but most of it is idiots telling other idiots how to play. If I wanted you to analyze my replay I would have posted there. It's a blog for a reason. You think I want to pollute the strategy forum with content like this and contribute to the problem that makes it so useless? No.
Ah ok, so you just needed a couple friends with whom to talk. Should try to make that a bit more clear. We are all here for you buddy!
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EPT
