EPT$400k isn't as much hype as chill and wheat - Page 3
| Blogs > Turgid |
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SiN]
United States540 Posts
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s.a.y
Croatia3840 Posts
On March 23 2011 09:04 Turgid wrote: Honestly, I don't think it's jumping the gun at all to express concerns based on what we've seen so far. I'm not PukinDog. I haven't made any claims about NASL shitting on western esports or anything like that. I'm saying that the content released so far has been problematic and that's very worrying; it's also done a poor job of hyping me up. It seems reasonable to me to be worried. I agree fully. They seem to be rushing into stuff too fast. At first, one would think that the money itself would justify this league to be the best, but with fierce competition (GSL, MLG, ESL, IGN, even smaller events like TSL) their start is quite bad. Everything in OP stands. They still got some time, hope it will get better. | ||
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McKTenor13
United States1383 Posts
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faseman
Australia215 Posts
We'll see if the league is any good, though. | ||
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Turgid
United States1623 Posts
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dLKnighT
Canada735 Posts
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
The Korean training regimen and lifestyle simply can't be beat. 6 months ago, natural ability played into it a lot more, and the gap was smaller, or even nonexistent. Now? It is a very real skill difference. Those playing and training within the Korean system are already better than those who don't, and the TSL is going to bear this out too. And for as long as the disparity between the Korean training setup and the American lack of a training setup exists, the gap will continue to grow until we have the same situation we did in Brood War, where the only professional scene that matters is Korea, and everywhere else is a complete joke where they can't invite Koreans or they get smashed. note, I am being very careful to describe it as "the Korean regimen" or the "Korean system" because I want to make it very clear that it isn't the Korean players who are inherently better, just their training practises. You can't use IdrA, Jinro, HuK, or any other foreigner who is/has been training in Korea as evidence of foreigner success over Koreans. The only significant tournament where Koreans did not dominate foreigners was Dreamhack 2010, and that was a long time ago. IEM pretty much proved the dominance of Korea, and the TSL will too. If the NASL is truly to be a "best in the world" league, its going to need to invite more than half of its players from Korea. And the further down Starcraft 2's life we get, the more Koreans will be flat out better than foreigners. And if NASL introduces a restriction on Koreans to combat this, all that proves is that they admit "we suck compared to them so we keep them out so we don't always lose". Its not something I'm particularly happy about, I'd love to see foreigners with more success without having to go and live and train in Korean pro-houses to do so, but it just isn't going to happen, and if you think it will outside of isolated cases (Like LiquidTyler who is unbelievable good despite living essentially a normal life, and ThorZain who managed to take down FruitDealer), you're delusional. | ||
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Turgid
United States1623 Posts
I also want to re-emphasize that I'm not out to shit on the NASL. I went out of my way to point out something that I liked, the application videos, and that I thought the right kind of people were involved because I want to make it clear that I don't hate this league. | ||
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
However I do agree, I hope nasl ups its game and produces something worth watching and being involved/hyped for! | ||
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QuothTheRaven
United States5524 Posts
On March 23 2011 10:41 Divinek wrote: it's kind of unfair to compare production value of TSL to anything else, I mean you have the best esports minds and most dedicated people in the community working on this stuff. That being said I would really like it if other leagues could come out with similar quality, but there's no way anything is going to beat TSL unless it basically steals the tsl staff lol. However I do agree, I hope nasl ups its game and produces something worth watching and being involved/hyped for! And on top of that this is the 3rd time they're doing it, so they have tons of experience. I remember quite a few hiccups during TSL1 and TSL2. | ||
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arcology
United States92 Posts
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MiraKul
Malaysia498 Posts
 i expect better and more professional admin from them. just like our very own TSL  | ||
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sur_reaL
Canada278 Posts
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legaton
France1763 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On March 23 2011 10:33 Dhalphir wrote: Judging by IEM, approximately all Code A and Code S Korean players are better than all foreigner players. The only foreigners showing any sort of success in tournaments with heavy Korean participation are those who are living and training in Korea already..HuK, Jinro, and formerly IdrA. Every other non-Korean who has not lived in Korea and trained for an extensive period of time, or who has only just moved there (Moonglade, Haypro, etc) has posted poor results whenever they have been matched against Koreans. The Korean training regimen and lifestyle simply can't be beat. 6 months ago, natural ability played into it a lot more, and the gap was smaller, or even nonexistent. Now? It is a very real skill difference. Those playing and training within the Korean system are already better than those who don't, and the TSL is going to bear this out too. And for as long as the disparity between the Korean training setup and the American lack of a training setup exists, the gap will continue to grow until we have the same situation we did in Brood War, where the only professional scene that matters is Korea, and everywhere else is a complete joke where they can't invite Koreans or they get smashed. note, I am being very careful to describe it as "the Korean regimen" or the "Korean system" because I want to make it very clear that it isn't the Korean players who are inherently better, just their training practises. You can't use IdrA, Jinro, HuK, or any other foreigner who is/has been training in Korea as evidence of foreigner success over Koreans. The only significant tournament where Koreans did not dominate foreigners was Dreamhack 2010, and that was a long time ago. IEM pretty much proved the dominance of Korea, and the TSL will too. If the NASL is truly to be a "best in the world" league, its going to need to invite more than half of its players from Korea. And the further down Starcraft 2's life we get, the more Koreans will be flat out better than foreigners. And if NASL introduces a restriction on Koreans to combat this, all that proves is that they admit "we suck compared to them so we keep them out so we don't always lose". Its not something I'm particularly happy about, I'd love to see foreigners with more success without having to go and live and train in Korean pro-houses to do so, but it just isn't going to happen, and if you think it will outside of isolated cases (Like LiquidTyler who is unbelievable good despite living essentially a normal life, and ThorZain who managed to take down FruitDealer), you're delusional. Actually, the training regime of korean pro-houses seems to be pretty lenient in comparison with the Kespa-run system. It is saddening to see such a huge gap between koreans and foreigners, specially north-americans, even when koreans are not training at full capacity. Makes me wonder what's wrong with the daily routine of foreigners pros. | ||
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alexhard
Sweden317 Posts
In any case, maybe these things are coming after all 50 have been announced, so judgment is reserved for now. I just hope that the execution of NASL can match its insane potential. | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
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AnotherEon
United Kingdom250 Posts
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Turgid
United States1623 Posts
On March 23 2011 11:19 AnotherEon wrote: IGN > NASL anyway, especially with someone like incontrol running it Incontrol doesn't run NASL. | ||
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KaveX
Germany59 Posts
On March 23 2011 08:56 turdburgler wrote: the only reason people are being so critical of the NASL from day one is that this is the western scenes big chance to break out into the mainstream. Can you elaborate why you feel that way? What's so special about the NASL? (for my thoughts, see here) There's nothing that baffles me more than people who think that the NASL will finally make e-sports huge but established companies like MLG and ESL who both have professional business structures, hundreds of qualified full-time employees (including sales, PR and bizdev people who do nothing else all day long than bringing e-sports into the mainstream) and much more will not have as much influence. Do you really think it's the prize money that matters? | ||
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Soap
Brazil1546 Posts
That said, the website is the worse I've seen in quite some time. Looks like they aren't even trying. | ||
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