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Active: 1839 users

$400k isn't as much hype as chill and wheat - Page 3

Blogs > Turgid
Post a Reply
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SiN]
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States540 Posts
March 23 2011 01:04 GMT
#41
I agree. Kawaiirice isn't that good.
s.a.y
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Croatia3840 Posts
March 23 2011 01:05 GMT
#42
On March 23 2011 09:04 Turgid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 23 2011 08:57 Kennigit wrote:
I have lots of concerns/potential criticisms too, but i think its best to see what the broadcast/league is actually like before making forming a concrete opinion. Wait it out.

Honestly, I don't think it's jumping the gun at all to express concerns based on what we've seen so far. I'm not PukinDog. I haven't made any claims about NASL shitting on western esports or anything like that. I'm saying that the content released so far has been problematic and that's very worrying; it's also done a poor job of hyping me up. It seems reasonable to me to be worried.


I agree fully.

They seem to be rushing into stuff too fast. At first, one would think that the money itself would justify this league to be the best, but with fierce competition (GSL, MLG, ESL, IGN, even smaller events like TSL) their start is quite bad.

Everything in OP stands.

They still got some time, hope it will get better.
I am not good with quotes
McKTenor13
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1383 Posts
March 23 2011 01:09 GMT
#43
I just wouldn't complain about something that hasn't started yet. Once TSL is done all we'll have major tournament wise is the GSL with a random MLG and Euro tourney thrown in once a month. With the NASL there will be awesome action almost every day of the week. THAT IS EXCITINGGGGGGGGG AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! =)
If you can chill. chill. - Liquid'Tyler
faseman
Profile Joined April 2009
Australia215 Posts
March 23 2011 01:12 GMT
#44
Pretty much agreed. TSL vs that awful showmatch (especially when incontrol rags on everything) is no contest. Their videos and website are something I would expect from a fansite that gets 10 hits a day.

We'll see if the league is any good, though.
Turgid
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1623 Posts
March 23 2011 01:18 GMT
#45
The thing about the showmatch is that NASL seems to want to dissociate itself with it - if that wasn't part of the league, well, first off, that's a missed opportunity, next, why was it so closely associated with the announcement of the league?
(╬ ಠ益ಠ)
dLKnighT
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada735 Posts
March 23 2011 01:28 GMT
#46
I more or less agree with the OP. The production quality of the TSL is the best I've seen in a while, and even the hype is a lot more than hype for the NASL. When I think of the NASL, I'm reminded of the sub-par website and amateur video on it. I'm not hyped up. What was a good idea, were the NASL application videos. They gave you a rare look at the faces and names of some of our favourite players. The NASL however does need to step up the hype and deliver on the production quality promises.
Dhalphir
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia1305 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-23 01:37:09
March 23 2011 01:33 GMT
#47
Judging by IEM, approximately all Code A and Code S Korean players are better than all foreigner players. The only foreigners showing any sort of success in tournaments with heavy Korean participation are those who are living and training in Korea already..HuK, Jinro, and formerly IdrA. Every other non-Korean who has not lived in Korea and trained for an extensive period of time, or who has only just moved there (Moonglade, Haypro, etc) has posted poor results whenever they have been matched against Koreans.

The Korean training regimen and lifestyle simply can't be beat. 6 months ago, natural ability played into it a lot more, and the gap was smaller, or even nonexistent. Now? It is a very real skill difference. Those playing and training within the Korean system are already better than those who don't, and the TSL is going to bear this out too. And for as long as the disparity between the Korean training setup and the American lack of a training setup exists, the gap will continue to grow until we have the same situation we did in Brood War, where the only professional scene that matters is Korea, and everywhere else is a complete joke where they can't invite Koreans or they get smashed.

note, I am being very careful to describe it as "the Korean regimen" or the "Korean system" because I want to make it very clear that it isn't the Korean players who are inherently better, just their training practises. You can't use IdrA, Jinro, HuK, or any other foreigner who is/has been training in Korea as evidence of foreigner success over Koreans. The only significant tournament where Koreans did not dominate foreigners was Dreamhack 2010, and that was a long time ago.

IEM pretty much proved the dominance of Korea, and the TSL will too.

If the NASL is truly to be a "best in the world" league, its going to need to invite more than half of its players from Korea. And the further down Starcraft 2's life we get, the more Koreans will be flat out better than foreigners.

And if NASL introduces a restriction on Koreans to combat this, all that proves is that they admit "we suck compared to them so we keep them out so we don't always lose".

Its not something I'm particularly happy about, I'd love to see foreigners with more success without having to go and live and train in Korean pro-houses to do so, but it just isn't going to happen, and if you think it will outside of isolated cases (Like LiquidTyler who is unbelievable good despite living essentially a normal life, and ThorZain who managed to take down FruitDealer), you're delusional.
Supporting TypeII Gaming - www.typeii.net - TypeReaL, TypePhoeNix, TypeSuN, TypeDBS!!
Turgid
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1623 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-23 01:38:24
March 23 2011 01:38 GMT
#48
I'll add that TSL has been fairly good so far in terms of even-ness between Koreans and the rest, although I think that the particular cases we've had have been a little off the mark of a perfect competition between the two. It's still a meaningful result and it definitely encourages more Korean-nonkorean competition.

I also want to re-emphasize that I'm not out to shit on the NASL. I went out of my way to point out something that I liked, the application videos, and that I thought the right kind of people were involved because I want to make it clear that I don't hate this league.
(╬ ಠ益ಠ)
Divinek
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Canada4045 Posts
March 23 2011 01:41 GMT
#49
it's kind of unfair to compare production value of TSL to anything else, I mean you have the best esports minds and most dedicated people in the community working on this stuff. That being said I would really like it if other leagues could come out with similar quality, but there's no way anything is going to beat TSL unless it basically steals the tsl staff lol.

However I do agree, I hope nasl ups its game and produces something worth watching and being involved/hyped for!
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Oh goodness me, FOX tv where do you get your sight? Can't you keep track, the puck is black. That's why the ice is white.
QuothTheRaven
Profile Joined December 2008
United States5524 Posts
March 23 2011 01:46 GMT
#50
On March 23 2011 10:41 Divinek wrote:
it's kind of unfair to compare production value of TSL to anything else, I mean you have the best esports minds and most dedicated people in the community working on this stuff. That being said I would really like it if other leagues could come out with similar quality, but there's no way anything is going to beat TSL unless it basically steals the tsl staff lol.

However I do agree, I hope nasl ups its game and produces something worth watching and being involved/hyped for!

And on top of that this is the 3rd time they're doing it, so they have tons of experience. I remember quite a few hiccups during TSL1 and TSL2.
. . . nevermore
arcology
Profile Joined April 2009
United States92 Posts
March 23 2011 01:48 GMT
#51
The 'invites' are ridiculous.. it's one thing for the TSL, which invited winners from previous tournaments, but this thing is just starting.
MiraKul
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Malaysia498 Posts
March 23 2011 01:51 GMT
#52
Forget NASL! We still have IGN's league i expect better and more professional admin from them. just like our very own TSL
ovrpwrd
sur_reaL
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada278 Posts
March 23 2011 01:52 GMT
#53
Hmm..well they should be stepping up their game since IGN is going after this SC2 niche in NA as well...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH3hrtp1T84
legaton
Profile Joined December 2010
France1763 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-23 01:56:50
March 23 2011 01:56 GMT
#54
+ Show Spoiler +
On March 23 2011 10:33 Dhalphir wrote:
Judging by IEM, approximately all Code A and Code S Korean players are better than all foreigner players. The only foreigners showing any sort of success in tournaments with heavy Korean participation are those who are living and training in Korea already..HuK, Jinro, and formerly IdrA. Every other non-Korean who has not lived in Korea and trained for an extensive period of time, or who has only just moved there (Moonglade, Haypro, etc) has posted poor results whenever they have been matched against Koreans.

The Korean training regimen and lifestyle simply can't be beat. 6 months ago, natural ability played into it a lot more, and the gap was smaller, or even nonexistent. Now? It is a very real skill difference. Those playing and training within the Korean system are already better than those who don't, and the TSL is going to bear this out too. And for as long as the disparity between the Korean training setup and the American lack of a training setup exists, the gap will continue to grow until we have the same situation we did in Brood War, where the only professional scene that matters is Korea, and everywhere else is a complete joke where they can't invite Koreans or they get smashed.

note, I am being very careful to describe it as "the Korean regimen" or the "Korean system" because I want to make it very clear that it isn't the Korean players who are inherently better, just their training practises. You can't use IdrA, Jinro, HuK, or any other foreigner who is/has been training in Korea as evidence of foreigner success over Koreans. The only significant tournament where Koreans did not dominate foreigners was Dreamhack 2010, and that was a long time ago.

IEM pretty much proved the dominance of Korea, and the TSL will too.

If the NASL is truly to be a "best in the world" league, its going to need to invite more than half of its players from Korea. And the further down Starcraft 2's life we get, the more Koreans will be flat out better than foreigners.

And if NASL introduces a restriction on Koreans to combat this, all that proves is that they admit "we suck compared to them so we keep them out so we don't always lose".

Its not something I'm particularly happy about, I'd love to see foreigners with more success without having to go and live and train in Korean pro-houses to do so, but it just isn't going to happen, and if you think it will outside of isolated cases (Like LiquidTyler who is unbelievable good despite living essentially a normal life, and ThorZain who managed to take down FruitDealer), you're delusional.


Actually, the training regime of korean pro-houses seems to be pretty lenient in comparison with the Kespa-run system. It is saddening to see such a huge gap between koreans and foreigners, specially north-americans, even when koreans are not training at full capacity. Makes me wonder what's wrong with the daily routine of foreigners pros.
No GG, No Skill - Jaedong <3
alexhard
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden317 Posts
March 23 2011 01:57 GMT
#55
TBH, while the invites were somewhat disappointing, I feel the biggest problem is the announcement itself. They basically just threw the names on the website, and that was it. I was expecting threads on TL, press releases, elaborately produced videos with discussions on why each player was picked, showing their application videos, etc. Kinda like the TSL bracket show. That sort of content can build up extreme amounts of hype if done correctly.

In any case, maybe these things are coming after all 50 have been announced, so judgment is reserved for now. I just hope that the execution of NASL can match its insane potential.
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
March 23 2011 02:12 GMT
#56
I was expecting a small bio of every player, their accomplishments, the video that they made. The whole 5 a day thing lead me to assume it would go down like that, since 50 player bios in one day would be quite a lot to digest
AnotherEon
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom250 Posts
March 23 2011 02:19 GMT
#57
IGN > NASL anyway, especially with someone like incontrol running it
Turgid
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1623 Posts
March 23 2011 02:23 GMT
#58
On March 23 2011 11:19 AnotherEon wrote:
IGN > NASL anyway, especially with someone like incontrol running it

Incontrol doesn't run NASL.
(╬ ಠ益ಠ)
KaveX
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany59 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-23 03:45:22
March 23 2011 02:26 GMT
#59
On March 23 2011 08:56 turdburgler wrote:
the only reason people are being so critical of the NASL from day one is that this is the western scenes big chance to break out into the mainstream.

Can you elaborate why you feel that way? What's so special about the NASL? (for my thoughts, see here)

There's nothing that baffles me more than people who think that the NASL will finally make e-sports huge but established companies like MLG and ESL who both have professional business structures, hundreds of qualified full-time employees (including sales, PR and bizdev people who do nothing else all day long than bringing e-sports into the mainstream) and much more will not have as much influence. Do you really think it's the prize money that matters?
SC2: EU Master League (Season 1: 2900 Points) | Fan of White-Ra, ClouD, HasuObs, MarineKing, BoxeR
Soap
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Brazil1546 Posts
March 23 2011 02:35 GMT
#60
I can only think they're trying to not set too high of a standard, so if the first season doesn't get that much popular they can try again with a more polished approach.

That said, the website is the worse I've seen in quite some time. Looks like they aren't even trying.
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