EPTI'm indifferent to how many people per team are allowed in, I'm just trying to see it from the perspective of the organizers.
NASL and Teams: What's the Deal? - Page 3
| Blogs > Liquid`Tyler |
|
wonderwall
New Zealand695 Posts
I'm indifferent to how many people per team are allowed in, I'm just trying to see it from the perspective of the organizers. | ||
|
MoreFaSho
United States1427 Posts
I think it's pretty clear that teams have nothing to do with the league unless the league is guaranteeing teams certain amounts of spots (which it's not and it shouldn't) or players from a team are allowed to sub in for a match (which they aren't and they shouldn't). It's also worth noting the arbitrary "team" distinction. The Starcraft community has a long history and it's certainly possible that two players not on the same team could be closer and more willing to do something to bring the league into disrespect than two players on the same team. I'm not implying anything about their likelihood of cheating, but Artosis and IdrA are closer than IdrA and Axslav even though IdrA and Axslav are both on EG. I think the idea of having 2 players from the same team play early in pool play is more than good enough. If you're worried about "changing the schedule" it doesn't seem any more significant than guaranteeing separate divisions to prevent team-kills. | ||
|
Motion
Germany183 Posts
So the sixth player has to become a better player ... wtf, where is the problem? It's in the nature of e-sport that the better player will compete in more tournaments ... | ||
Daigomi
South Africa4316 Posts
On February 24 2011 07:04 Motion wrote: Only five players per Team is absolutely okay, plz don't make a cow! - Fair for everyone - Diversity in the way of play-styles, after 1-2 years a Powerhouse will reach certain styles... - Interesting Player Transfers, cause a Clan could only hold 5 Starplayers. ( At least interesting for the Viewers ) - But the major point is: Less Team tactics 1. How is it fair for everyone when it only affects 1 or 2 teams? It's clearly biased against top teams. This includes EG, so I'm not saying they did it to spite TL, I just don't think they thought through the implications fully. 2. This is complete conjecture. Since your argument specifically states 1-2 years, we can look at BW as an example. Tempest, Stats, and Violet, all protoss from KTF, play completely different styles. iloveoov and Boxer played completely different styles. In SC2, TL has Huk, Nazgul, Tyler, and TLO playing protoss, and they all have very distinctive styles. A player's unique style will only be minimally affected by the team that he is in, and it's not as if taking the limit off would fill the tournament up with only two teams. The distribution might change from 15 teams to 16 teams, or something similar to that. 3. Are you seriously saying players jumping from team to team is good for the fans? Yes, it might provide drama for a few hours, just like the president having an affair with an intern would provide drama, but it's definitely not good for the scene if players are forced to leave their team just to participate in one tournament. 4. The only decent point, but as has been said, this can very easily be avoided. Players from the same teams can be scheduled to always play each other in the first half of the tournament, preventing any collusion. Since the ladder stages seem to be round robin, this should be easy to do. On February 24 2011 07:08 Motion wrote: It seems bad for Teams, but it is over all better for E-Sports. The only thing everybody has to do is, accept this rule. After a while this creates a nice E-Sports Scene around it. Yes it is bad right now, but not in the future! Can you at least try to support your statements with some evidence? On February 24 2011 07:12 Motion wrote: If your are the sixth best player you aren't able to compete in many other tournaments. You may not be invited or simply smashed in 1st round ... So the sixth player has to become a better player ... wtf, where is the problem? It's in the nature of e-sport that the better player will compete in more tournaments ... This is simply not true. No individual league is preventing players from playing based on their team. If you're the sixth player in your team, that doesn't mean you're not better than the other players in the league. The sixth player in a top team is almost certainly stronger than the 3rd player in a midrange team, and the best player in many of the teams allowed to participate. | ||
|
bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
The more players a sponsor gets into the tournament the better the chances someone from their team advances. 5 out of several hundred, regardless of how good they are, is quite a long shot for a team sponsor. | ||
|
SayTT
Sweden2158 Posts
I do agree with tyler that the team aspect in this case doesn't deal with the problems it was set out to do. | ||
|
DeckOneBell
United States526 Posts
Sure you can make arguments about excitement, giving people a chance, diversity, teamkills not being fun, whatever. But at the end of the day, the tournament's goal should be to have the best players playing the best players, and anything else will just be less entertaining. EDIT: Basically, I agree with Nony/Tyler. | ||
|
infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On February 24 2011 07:08 Turo wrote: Sort of a random point, but isn't starcraft more like tennis than baseball? Do you need to be on a team to play in the biggest tennis tournies? Well i believe players from the same countries are practice partners and therefore the teams in comparison to SC2. Often they have to play each other even though they might be partners for 2v2, and it's no problem. Of course they don't like having to eliminate each other but that's the way it is, it's a singles tournament. | ||
|
zooalt
104 Posts
| ||
|
KWest
United States59 Posts
On February 24 2011 07:08 Motion wrote: It seems bad for Teams, but it is over all better for E-Sports. The only thing everybody has to do is, accept this rule. After a while this creates a nice E-Sports Scene around it. Yes it is bad right now, but not in the future! There is no reasoning to say that this rule would be better for E-Sports. The best way to improve E-Sports is higher quality teams, which gives the lower quality teams a benchmark to improve. I would rather have 5-10 awesome teams, then 20-30 average teams. | ||
|
Fweedman
United States25 Posts
On February 24 2011 07:08 Motion wrote: It seems bad for Teams, but it is over all better for E-Sports. The only thing everybody has to do is, accept this rule. After a while this creates a nice E-Sports Scene around it. Yes it is bad right now, but not in the future! So leaving a well established team that offers benefits to play for a random, lesser team is better for ESports? How is this possibly good for the players? | ||
|
Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
I blame you Tyler. | ||
|
XiO
United States36 Posts
| ||
|
bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
On February 24 2011 07:12 wonderwall wrote: The problem is that, as a hypothetical, lets say out of the final 8 people in the tournament 6 were all from one team. That directly kills a lot of the competitive edge and the excitement involved in the tournament as you are presented with a "foregone conclusion" so to speak that no matter what happens this team will win. The teams aren't competing; the players are. Individual matches between teammates at high brackets are incredibly exciting, just look at any MSL or OSL in recent history. | ||
|
DeckOneBell
United States526 Posts
On February 24 2011 07:14 infinity2k9 wrote: Well i believe players from the same countries are practice partners and therefore the teams in comparison to SC2. Often they have to play each other even though they might be partners for 2v2, and it's no problem. Of course they don't like having to eliminate each other but that's the way it is, it's a singles tournament. Exactly: this is an individual tournament, not a team tournament. | ||
|
Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On February 24 2011 07:12 wonderwall wrote: Simply playing devils advocate. I think what the organizers of the NASL might be afraid of is a few highly skilled teams "crowding out" the upper brackets. Team-kill matches do have drama and add storylines, that's true. The problem is that, as a hypothetical, lets say out of the final 8 people in the tournament 6 were all from one team. That directly kills a lot of the competitive edge and the excitement involved in the tournament as you are presented with a "foregone conclusion" so to speak that no matter what happens this team will win. But it's not a team league. It's an individual league. Teams don't "win". If you had Huk vs TLO and Jinro vs Tyler semifinals, would it really be a tournament with no "competitive edge" and "excitement"? Because to me, that would be one hell of a tournament ending and I would be super hyped for it. It's not like they all won just by being from a single team. Starcraft doesn't work like that. It's an inherently individual sport, not a team one. | ||
|
DeckOneBell
United States526 Posts
On February 24 2011 07:16 Talin wrote: But it's not a team league. It's an individual league. Teams don't "win". If you had Huk vs TLO and Jinro vs Tyler semifinals, would it really be a tournament with no "competitive edge" and "excitement"? Because to me, that would be one hell of a tournament ending and I would be super hyped for it. It's not like they all won so it doesn't matter what happens or anything. Starcraft doesn't work like that. Ultimately, it's an inherently individual sport, not a team one. It CAN be a team sport: See Shinhan Proleague. Just in this case it's not. The way it's run as a team sport is 5 1v1 matches, first team to 3 wins, more or less. | ||
|
kilthan
United States42 Posts
If they added a team aspect like Team Points where players accrue points for their teams and at the end of the season the team with the most points wins a prize then I could see some point in it. | ||
Antoine
United States7481 Posts
On February 24 2011 07:12 wonderwall wrote: Simply playing devils advocate. I think what the organizers of the NASL might be afraid of is a few highly skilled teams "crowding out" the upper brackets. Team-kill matches do have drama and add storylines, that's true. The problem is that, as a hypothetical, lets say out of the final 8 people in the tournament 6 were all from one team. That directly kills a lot of the competitive edge and the excitement involved in the tournament as you are presented with a "foregone conclusion" so to speak that no matter what happens this team will win. Now having only 5 people from a team won't stop this from happening completely, we still might see a certain team just dominate and fill up all the seeding spots. But limiting it to 5 people per team makes it less likely that this will occur. I'm indifferent to how many people per team are allowed in, I'm just trying to see it from the perspective of the organizers. since this is an individual tournament, it is the player we're worried about who wins, not the team. And having multiple people on one team doesn't ensure who is going to win. On February 24 2011 07:12 Motion wrote: If your are the sixth best player you aren't able to compete in many other tournaments. You may not be invited or simply smashed in 1st round ... So the sixth player has to become a better player ... wtf, where is the problem? It's in the nature of e-sport that the better player will compete in more tournaments ... The problem arises when the 6th player on one team is better than the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, whatever player on another team, yet isn't allowed to compete simply because of the team he's on. So in this case, the better player isn't competing in more tournaments. | ||
|
Fzero
United States1503 Posts
The NASL is trying to get the best of both worlds. They're trying to provide a place for 10 teams to field a team of players and get publicity and sponsorships WHILE the actual prizes and publicity is centered around individuals and the final 16 bracket. ...So, one set of rules makes sense for one portion of the competition, but not the other.. | ||
| ||
