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This is my very first TeamLiquid blog, so go easy on me ^_^
Poll: How do you feel about self-titled build orders?Stupid and arrogant. (37) 54% They made the effort, they can name it what they want.. (18) 26% I don't care, a build is a build. (13) 19% 68 total votes Your vote: How do you feel about self-titled build orders? (Vote): They made the effort, they can name it what they want..
(Vote): I don't care, a build is a build.
(Vote): Stupid and arrogant.
So, what are the opinions out there of players who name a build or tactic after themselves? I've seen posts from all sides of the issue, but I'd like to poll the crowd and get a better sense of things.
I personally think that if the author put the effort forth and it is fairly original, they can go ahead and title the build or tactic whatever they'd like. I know I might sound a little biased because I have a build named after myself, but that doesn't mean I'm not open to hear other opinions or take criticism.
Some examples are:
Synystyr's Anti-Colossus TvP Build
iEchoic's 2Fact2Port TvT Build
iEchoic's 1-1-2 Hellion Drop TvP Build
Griffith's 4OC Pressure Push TvZ Build
Griffith's Magic Box
The list goes on, not too much longer, but you guys get the idea.
Related, is it more acceptable to instead have your style of play referenced by another and then coined as a household build name in that manner? CecilSunkure has referenced a few styles of play and those "self-titled" builds seem to be widely accepted.
Thoughts?
And just for kicks...(inspired by Antisocialmunky)
Leaderboard of people with self-titled builds/tactics:
iEchoic - 2
Griffith - 2
CecilSunkure(Indirectly) - 2
Synystyr - 1
Kcdc - 1
Thromboyzt - 1
Gnial - 1
Antimage - 1
Maybe we can even turn this into a competition xD
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50536 Posts
the only thing that bothered me was Griffith's magic box,he only explored its possiblities.
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If your build is sufficiently innovative, others will use your name to refer to it. Trying to claim that right for yourself will simply make people laugh at you.
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Hyrule19145 Posts
I'd rather have the person say "here's my build and details about it" and use a descriptive name (ie: "2 fact 2 port"), then let the rest of the community decide if they want to call it "the iEchoic build" or the "wtfrapeeverything build" or whatever.
Just makes more sense to me.
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Sure, if the build is great enough that it changed the way games played like SK Terran.
edit: I mean as long their build really bring innovation like SK Terran did, not that SoulKey named his build SK Terran.
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I think it should be more of a community given title, rather than something you can proclaim yourself. The Bisu-build wasn't called such because Bisu named it after himself, he popularized the build and the Starcraft community named it after him.
It comes off pretentious when you name a build after yourself, don't do it.
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Canada2890 Posts
Named builds can only be given by the community. If you want to try to influence the community into naming a build after you, go right ahead.
Stalife didn't call Stalife drops "Stalife drops", did he?
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On February 24 2011 00:31 bonifaceviii wrote:
Named builds can only be given by the community. If you want to try to influence the community into naming a build after you, go right ahead.
Stalife didn't call Stalife drops "Stalife drops", did he?
I'm pretty sure you're kidding ;p but he did, and ppl didnt like it
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there was a guy named Faze who got away with it, because he learned a trick with void rays, and the name was appropriate.
otherwise, you just end up looking like a joke. I think iEchoic is fine, cause mostly he's just naming the thread or the guide, as "iEchoic's guide to x build" and not "The iEchoic Build." Now that its making a splash, people refer to it by whatever they like, for the sake of clarity and conciseness
and Griffith taking the "magic box" and adding his name on it? its been explored and identified years before he even heard about starcraft and he wants credit for it? shame. shame i say.
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It only works if your name works. Like if your name is Screen and you figure out a trick for splitting marines, you can upload a replay like "Yo guys check out my SCREEN RINES". I think that would be pretty cool.
Otherwise you would be better off not stamping your name on a build.
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Well, the threads you linked don't actually have people naming the builds after themselves. They are just stating possession. It's not like you called your build the Synystr build. You just titled your thread Synystr's build, and even described the build in the title too. I think that's totally fine, and the right thing to do.
If you came up with a fairly innovative build, you should definitely show that you came up with it. It helps differentiate whether you came up with the build or that you saw someone else do it and studied it or whatever, like the guy who wrote the thread on Yongwha's 3gate robo. If it's a good build, people will pick up on it and maybe even refer to build with you name. If it's not a really popular build, like that 4 OC one you linked, it will probably fade into oblivion and no one will remember you.
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9934 Posts
Chill and I were looking through Liquipedia one day at some super generic build guide, it was like 14 pool 15 hatch or something. All the edits are documented, and after a long list of contributions and fixes by Liquipedia staff this one kid kid had made one final edit:
The 14 Pool, 15 Hatch is a general macro-oriented setup, popularized by IdrA as it is his standard opening.
to
The 14 Pool, 15 Hatch (AKA the SyKnEsS build) is a general macro-oriented setup, popularized by IdrA as it is his standard opening.
Fuck
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Canada2890 Posts
On February 24 2011 00:51 intrigue wrote:Chill and I were looking through Liquipedia one day at some super generic build guide, it was like 14 pool 15 hatch or something. All the edits are documented, and after a long list of contributions and fixes by Liquipedia staff this one kid kid had made one final edit: Show nested quote +The 14 Pool, 15 Hatch is a general macro-oriented setup, popularized by IdrA as it is his standard opening. to Show nested quote +The 14 Pool, 15 Hatch (AKA the SyKnEsS build) is a general macro-oriented setup, popularized by IdrA as it is his standard opening. Fuck
hahaha that's amazing
I'm gonna go call the 12 drone rush the "boni build"
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50536 Posts
On February 24 2011 00:51 intrigue wrote:Chill and I were looking through Liquipedia one day at some super generic build guide, it was like 14 pool 15 hatch or something. All the edits are documented, and after a long list of contributions and fixes by Liquipedia staff this one kid kid had made one final edit: Show nested quote +The 14 Pool, 15 Hatch is a general macro-oriented setup, popularized by IdrA as it is his standard opening. to Show nested quote +The 14 Pool, 15 Hatch (AKA the SyKnEsS build) is a general macro-oriented setup, popularized by IdrA as it is his standard opening. Fuck
lol!seriously,some people think that they made X build because they did it that one time.
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On February 24 2011 00:51 intrigue wrote:Chill and I were looking through Liquipedia one day at some super generic build guide, it was like 14 pool 15 hatch or something. All the edits are documented, and after a long list of contributions and fixes by Liquipedia staff this one kid kid had made one final edit: Show nested quote +The 14 Pool, 15 Hatch is a general macro-oriented setup, popularized by IdrA as it is his standard opening. to Show nested quote +The 14 Pool, 15 Hatch (AKA the SyKnEsS build) is a general macro-oriented setup, popularized by IdrA as it is his standard opening. Fuck
Gonna start calling the 13pool the Hollow build, my internet penis will grow 4 inches in 2 weeks.
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unless its the sjow build xD
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If I really wanted to share some of my other builds, I could have like 5 unique builds nobody's seen before and top ur list. :D
but that aside, i felt like back then going VR/colossus was a really unique composition that had lots of potential with a solid opening - a concept that has become really popular lately these days as well.
I'm happy if a contribution I made helped further the "meta-game" =)
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I't does kind of bother me when people attach their names to things that have already been done and it just ends up looking stupid. I guess it's OK to name yourself after something you put a lot of work into but sometimes it's easier to call something a 4port or stalker/VR so thats what i end up calling it anyways.
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The Tasteless Build.
Therefore, all self-titled builds are not stupid or arrogant.
Some can be frickin awesome.
QED, /thread, /discussion, /conversation, initiate party.
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United States8519 Posts
Really dumb. No one is going to remember you in 5 years, because you're probably a nobody. Especially when your alias is terrible.
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On February 24 2011 01:32 zer0das wrote:
Really dumb. No one is going to remember you in 5 years, because you're probably a nobody. Especially when your alias is terrible.
Bisu Build say what?
...even though iirc, he didn't come up with it first... he just popularized it.
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I can agree with a lot of points here. I think the community should and will have the ultimate say in what a build should be called and such. It's good to see the opinions though  I guess people don't really like it too much when people name things after themselves!
Unless it's the Tasteless build, of course.
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United States8519 Posts
"Bisu build" has probably reached the level of "denatured" in terms of complete meaninglessness. In fact, it probably never had a real meaning.
Also, Bisu is a progamer who actually has some real influence. Not some random scrub who will never win anything. Which is the entire point- the only people that will remembered will be the ones who actually have some really tangible impact on the game.
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The idea behind the naming is that it designates the build as an original build. I plan to write up guides for builds I did not create and then when the name is absent it makes it clear it is not an original build. My build was titled as the 2fact2port build (or hellion/air) not the iEchoic build, also.
Also I like the idea of having a 'brand' where people who like my builds can search for others and also have an expectation of quality when they see my name. I could make up a random label or title but that sounds pointless.
Is that unreasonable? Hope that clears up at least my pov.
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On February 24 2011 04:22 iEchoic wrote:
The idea behind the naming is that it designates the build as an original build. I plan to write up guides for builds I did not create and then when the name is absent it makes it clear it is not an original build. My build was titled as the 2fact2port build (or hellion/air) not the iEchoic build, also.
Hope that clears up at least my pov.
Right, my mindset was pretty much the same as yours. I had never seen any type of mass Banshee usage against Protoss when I developed the build. My build is also titled "FE 4 Port Banshee", and not "THE Synystyr build". I'd like to think my idea behind it was original in a sense however.
I also made a guide on a 2 Rax FE opening, where I deliberately left my name out because I didn't think it was completely original, just something I felt should be laid out in text form for others to use.
Thanks for your input though, I was hoping to hear from you 
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I forgot to mention that in the past rts communities I'm from, it was commonplace to name things like this. If it turns out people are getting butthurt about it I'll consider changing it, to be honest I didn't put a lot of thought into the names.
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Hyrule19145 Posts
On February 24 2011 00:51 intrigue wrote:Chill and I were looking through Liquipedia one day at some super generic build guide, it was like 14 pool 15 hatch or something. All the edits are documented, and after a long list of contributions and fixes by Liquipedia staff this one kid kid had made one final edit: Show nested quote +The 14 Pool, 15 Hatch is a general macro-oriented setup, popularized by IdrA as it is his standard opening. to Show nested quote +The 14 Pool, 15 Hatch (AKA the SyKnEsS build) is a general macro-oriented setup, popularized by IdrA as it is his standard opening. Fuck
I think you'll be happy to know that I can not find any stupid names like that.
If you see any, please post in the LP feedback thread so I can destroy the edit.
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You need the community to use the name, so it doesn't count if you yourself call it the "Synystyr build" if no one else does. If you use the build well and popularize it, it will probably get named after you anyways (unless your name is hard to type, like Synystyr). Trying to name it after yourself from the beginning won't earn any goodwill from the community so it's counterproductive. I'm sure there are people would call it something else just to spite you because you tried it.
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I actually think named builds are cool. The names either take off or they don't, whatever. Although it didn't actually hang around I quite liked the 5RR being called "the Fist" by some people.
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You shouldn't name your build after yourself. OTHER PEOPLE may name the build after you if they choose to do so.... Bisu didn't name forge FE into sair/DT the "bisu build." Flash didn't name his fast 2/1 3base push the "flash build." The COMMUNITY did.
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If we just accepted that every build is the Tasteless build, we wouldn't have this problem.
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this reminds me of when smash brawl came out and everyone was naming their techniques after themselves
i dunno i don't care, let nature take its course
if someone makes a build and names it after themselves and it sucks and we start calling it the douchebag build then so be it
at the end of the day the only thing that matters is if you won or lost and how much money you won or lost.
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All good builds are the Tasteless build.
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Another big thing is that people are putting their name in builds they didn't create or just aren't good. As with most things in life, if you put your name on something it had better be both original and damned good. You're attaching your name to something and you deserve the criticism you get if it's not up to where you want your name to be.
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General consensus around here seems to be that the community gets the final say. Makes perfect sense to me
I personally don't mind a little bit of self promotion here and there. 2Fact2Port is such a solid build, I don't mind that iEchoic has placed his name with it. We wouldn't have seen anything like it otherwise if he didn't post about it and he deserves the credit.
However things like Griffith's Magic Box or Stalife drops are not original so the self titling there is inappropriate in my opinion.
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Take a look at all those builds, and the effort involved in them, and the impact they have had on many people's game. I've switched to Terran both times iEchoic posted his new builds and have had a blast executing them (I didn't have to spend time learning the T meta prior to switching). After kcdc's build was posted there was a fascinating change in the way many P's and T's played at the high levels.
Its often not the build that people are trying to put their names on, but rather the guide and the explanation that they have given. (Note that just because someone puts their name at the start of a thread, it does not obligate anyone to refer to it as such, and I can probably speak for all the other guide makers when I say that we don't care what other people call it.)
What a named thread does do:
It allows for the separation of otherwise similarly named guides and builds.
It allows for a really easy search in the team liquid search bar.
Allows for easy reference to a specific build/guide. "look for the gateway fast-expand build on team liquid", for instance, contains a significant amount of ambiguity.
Anyone who thinks negatively about it either didn't think of the practical benefits of there being a name, doesn't appreciate the effort involved, or should look at the reason why they feel the resentment. (I just assume that the person is afflicted with a combination of insecurity, attention jealousy and pettyness)
I'm not reading this thread anymore because there is something unsatisfying about reading some of the flames. Instead of complaining in this thread perhaps you should try...oh I don't know...contributing to the community?
edit. And props to iEchoic for being more respectful than myself. Quite frankly, I don't think the complainers deserve it. The voting results in particular reads like an unjustified "fuck you" to me.
edit2. I only speak for the guides/builds that required a lot of time and effort.
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On February 25 2011 09:05 Gnial wrote:
Take a look at all those builds, and the effort involved in them, and the impact they have had on many people's game. I've switched to Terran both times iEchoic posted his new builds and have had a blast executing them (I didn't have to spend time learning the T meta prior to switching). After kcdc's build was posted there was a fascinating change in the way many P's and T's played at the high levels.
Its often not the build that people are trying to put their names on, but rather the guide and the explanation that they have given. (Note that just because someone puts their name at the start of a thread, it does not obligate anyone to refer to it as such, and I can probably speak for all the other guide makers when I say that we don't care what other people call it.)
What a named thread does do:
It allows for the separation of otherwise similarly named guides and builds.
It allows for a really easy search in the team liquid search bar.
Allows for easy reference to a specific build/guide. "look for the gateway fast-expand build on team liquid", for instance, contains a significant amount of ambiguity.
Anyone who thinks negatively about it either didn't think of the practical benefits of there being a name, doesn't appreciate the effort involved, or should look at the reason why they feel the resentment. (I just assume that the person is afflicted with a combination of insecurity, attention jealousy and pettyness)
I'm not reading this thread anymore because there is something unsatisfying about reading some of the flames. Instead of complaining in this thread perhaps you should try...oh I don't know...contributing to the community?
edit. And props to iEchoic for being more respectful than myself. Quite frankly, I don't think the complainers deserve it. The voting results in particular reads like an unjustified "fuck you" to me.
edit2. I only speak for the guides/builds that required a lot of time and effort.
Thanks a lot for posting Gnial! I really do agree with you here. Especially about the part that speaks about the results....I do feel a little pissed that the effort I put into a thread may be completely overlooked because I put my name on it...ah well.
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I think as long as players are highly associated with their own builds and strategies, self-naming will continue to exist. We already have Light builds, MC-style attacks, Kyrix-style aggression, Stalife [sic] drops, and Maynarding as relatively common terms.
As long as the person doesn't actively try to promote himself through self-naming builds, I think it's good for the player base to attach names and personalities to various terms and builds that they use. It adds quite a bit of life and personality to the metagame, and it's nice to have alternative names as a treat for experienced players.
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It depends on how/what you name it. Calling something <person>'s XvX build isn't too bad. It's honest, it's the BO you do in whatever match up. So http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=189624 seems entirely reasonable. You're not really naming the build entirely, just describing it.
Explicitly naming a build, either after yourself (the Tastelss build is an exception) or with some non-descriptive name is just annoying and stupid. If the build is worthy of being named then people will name it as a community.
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I think its interesting since really, most people who have self titled builds are people who do it themselves which makes it slightly conceited. For example, I always told this to Lzgamer about how he did the silly reaper rush, everyone knows thats where it relaly became invented and popularized but it was never really known as the Lz build, it was just the mass reaper, reaper all in, 6 racks reaper, etc, build.
Meanwhile you have people like FaZe who purposley stated that he wanted something named after him hence the void ray fazing. Then theres "The Gretorp build" in early/mid beta for PvT, which was just a marine ghost sorta play. "The Cauthonluck Build" which I suppose was more of a root thing that designated the build that name.
It really does vary, but I think every build should have a generic name, not named after someone unless its actually revolutionary ie: Bisu build, Flash build, etc.
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I refer to build first done/popularized by a very high level player by the player's name sometimes even if it's not clear that they came up with it. It's fun and stylish.
The only real Tasteless build is a cannon rush btw.
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trying to get away with naming unit bombing after yourself was incredibly arrogant and stupid. like what, trying to take advantage of all the newbies in SC2 to make a name for yourself? it annoyed me even more that Day9 decided to do an entire episode about it.
SMH
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On February 26 2011 04:45 a176 wrote:
trying to get away with naming unit bombing after yourself was incredibly arrogant and stupid. like what, trying to take advantage of all the newbies in SC2 to make a name for yourself? it annoyed me even more than Day9 decided to do an entire episode about it.
SMH
I hope you're not confusing me with Stalife I never did such thing sir.
But I do agree with you there.
Griffith naming the magic box after himself and Stalife naming unit bombing after himself are both absolutely ridiculous.
Not original =[
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EPT
