EPTAttempting to learn Web Design - Page 2
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RedLuck
Canada253 Posts
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Lyzon
United Kingdom440 Posts
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telfire
United States415 Posts
On February 17 2011 05:19 RedLuck wrote: Quick question for all of you who do this professionally: how old were you when you were first interested in learning web design and how long did you go to school for it? I was 9 and I did not go to school, I self taught. I was terrible for quite some time, but 11 years later I am freelancing for a number of companies. I continue to brush up on my skills and learn new ones. The web is constantly changing and I feel like school might be a decent foundation, but you're going to NEED to self-teach to keep up afterwards anyway. I do not feel it is mandatory. | ||
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Deleted User 61629
1664 Posts
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formthehead
United States81 Posts
On February 17 2011 05:19 RedLuck wrote: Quick question for all of you who do this professionally: how old were you when you were first interested in learning web design and how long did you go to school for it? I went to art school and studied graphic design, and I taught myself HTML and CSS with a lynda.com dreamweaver tutorial. Now I end up doing most things from dreamweaver's coding window, and I could plausibly do it purely on code, but it's nice to have the program step in and organize things for me since I'm not accustomed to coding (my tech experience is limited to browsing the web and playing games). It's important to make distinctions between web designers and web developers, and what part of it you want to focus on. Also, tables are useful for some situations because the slice tool in adobe programs allow you to create a design and export it to a tables layout with all the image resources and rollovers already organized for you, with a minimum amount of coding or general effort. It's the fastest and easiest way to make a website that'll never get updated for a client that doesn't want to bother maintaining it, and the layout is durable enough to work on all browsers (older IE versions don't render CSS properly, and all browsers interpret the code a bit differently, though I'm not too clear on the specifics). The firm I interned at kept Adobe ImageReady from the original creative suite (it got replaced by adobe fireworks, I believe) because it converted to tables with the least amount of hassle. | ||
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RedLuck
Canada253 Posts
On February 17 2011 06:28 formthehead wrote: I went to art school and studied graphic design, and I taught myself HTML and CSS with a lynda.com dreamweaver tutorial. Now I end up doing most things from dreamweaver's coding window, and I could plausibly do it purely on code, but it's nice to have the program step in and organize things for me since I'm not accustomed to coding (my tech experience is limited to browsing the web and playing games). It's important to make distinctions between web designers and web developers, and what part of it you want to focus on. Also, tables are useful for some situations because the slice tool in adobe programs allow you to create a design and export it to a tables layout with all the image resources and rollovers already organized for you, with a minimum amount of coding or general effort. It's the fastest and easiest way to make a website that'll never get updated for a client that doesn't want to bother maintaining it, and the layout is durable enough to work on all browsers (older IE versions don't render CSS properly, and all browsers interpret the code a bit differently, though I'm not too clear on the specifics). The firm I interned at kept Adobe ImageReady from the original creative suite (it got replaced by adobe fireworks, I believe) because it converted to tables with the least amount of hassle. I only ask because I've always had the itching to learn HTML and web development but I've never acted upon it. At this point in my life I'd really like to start REALLY getting into something like this for which I've always been passionate for. I 'started' to learn html about 2 years ago but I didn't follow through with it and now I'm 20 years old and kicking myself for not continuing to learn. Now after hearing that a lot of people here started when they were young teens it makes me wonder if I'm too old to scratch this itch. It feels like I'll be years behind everybody which annoys me as I am a semi-perfectionist at times. | ||
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Lyzon
United Kingdom440 Posts
the key to rising up the levels is practise. noone is born a master/diamond, we all start off bronze and work our way up. how quick you level up is determined by how much you study and practise. so open up dreamweaever, make some templates in design view, switch to code and study it. edit it and see what changes. read up on browser quirks / box model / dom etc. read what doctypes do, inline and block elements... what floats do, clearing floats... positionings etc it may seem like a lot... but you can always relate it to something else inline / block = zergling / maurourder browser quirks / box model / dom = nuke / storm / feedback floats / clearing / positioning = mothership / thor / ultralisk basically, everything in html has its own level of difficulty in understanding it. just like sc. understanding the difference between inline and block elements is like knowing what is a zergling and what is a maourder (i cant spell it ¬_¬) the more difficult a html concept, the higher its tier. but it can all be learnt if you just study so dont give up  | ||
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formthehead
United States81 Posts
On February 17 2011 07:07 RedLuck wrote: + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2011 06:28 formthehead wrote: I went to art school and studied graphic design, and I taught myself HTML and CSS with a lynda.com dreamweaver tutorial. Now I end up doing most things from dreamweaver's coding window, and I could plausibly do it purely on code, but it's nice to have the program step in and organize things for me since I'm not accustomed to coding (my tech experience is limited to browsing the web and playing games). It's important to make distinctions between web designers and web developers, and what part of it you want to focus on. Also, tables are useful for some situations because the slice tool in adobe programs allow you to create a design and export it to a tables layout with all the image resources and rollovers already organized for you, with a minimum amount of coding or general effort. It's the fastest and easiest way to make a website that'll never get updated for a client that doesn't want to bother maintaining it, and the layout is durable enough to work on all browsers (older IE versions don't render CSS properly, and all browsers interpret the code a bit differently, though I'm not too clear on the specifics). The firm I interned at kept Adobe ImageReady from the original creative suite (it got replaced by adobe fireworks, I believe) because it converted to tables with the least amount of hassle. I only ask because I've always had the itching to learn HTML and web development but I've never acted upon it. At this point in my life I'd really like to start REALLY getting into something like this for which I've always been passionate for. I 'started' to learn html about 2 years ago but I didn't follow through with it and now I'm 20 years old and kicking myself for not continuing to learn. Now after hearing that a lot of people here started when they were young teens it makes me wonder if I'm too old to scratch this itch. It feels like I'll be years behind everybody which annoys me as I am a semi-perfectionist at times. HTML and CSS are very straightforward, the only difficult thing I've found is figuring out how different browsers interpret the information. Think of HTML/CSS as describing a layout to someone over the phone. You're just telling the browser where all the stuff is in relation to everything else, and in sequential order. It's pretty intuitive. If you just set up a website as practice and get involved in every phase making it work, and also make a note to view the source code on websites that you like, you should be able to pick it up relatively quickly. Looking at a tutorial and trying to process all that information without practice is basically impossible, you shouldn't view that as some kind of learning deficiency on your part. | ||
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RedLuck
Canada253 Posts
On February 17 2011 07:35 Lyzon wrote: its never to old to start. if you say stuff like dat, you will fail. Just view it as your a bronze in web dev and were master/diamond the key to rising up the levels is practise. noone is born a master/diamond, we all start off bronze and work our way up. how quick you level up is determined by how much you study and practise. so open up dreamweaever, make some templates in design view, switch to code and study it. edit it and see what changes. read up on browser quirks / box model / dom etc. read what doctypes do, inline and block elements... what floats do, clearing floats... positionings etc it may seem like a lot... but you can always relate it to something else inline / block = zergling / maurourder browser quirks / box model / dom = nuke / storm / feedback floats / clearing / positioning = mothership / thor / ultralisk basically, everything in html has its own level of difficulty in understanding it. just like sc. understanding the difference between inline and block elements is like knowing what is a zergling and what is a maourder (i cant spell it ¬_¬) the more difficult a html concept, the higher its tier. but it can all be learnt if you just study so dont give up Thanks for the encouragement. Any advice on the best methods of understanding and practicing the basic + advanced HTML. Also, where would be the best place to start begin the learning process (website tutorials, community sites, etc.)? I'm quite the newb (not noob) when it comes to web development but that's the part that has me so intrigued. When I bring up the page source on my most frequent website it just looks so beautiful (so nerdy) and that's what is driving me towards learning. | ||
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RedLuck
Canada253 Posts
On February 17 2011 07:58 formthehead wrote: HTML and CSS are very straightforward, the only difficult thing I've found is figuring out how different browsers interpret the information. Think of HTML/CSS as describing a layout to someone over the phone. You're just telling the browser where all the stuff is in relation to everything else, and in sequential order. It's pretty intuitive. If you just set up a website as practice and get involved in every phase making it work, and also make a note to view the source code on websites that you like, you should be able to pick it up relatively quickly. Looking at a tutorial and trying to process all that information without practice is basically impossible, you shouldn't view that as some kind of learning deficiency on your part. Thanks for the response, and yes I agree that just following tutorials basically gets you nowhere. For one of my projects in high school I designed a web template in PS, spliced it all up and built it in dreamweaver into a functional, though poooooooooorly made, website. Although it was fun and it worked I had no clue what the hell was behind the scenes of what I made and basically didn't learn a thing. Not going in that direction again. | ||
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KevinIX
United States2472 Posts
I'd begin learning HTML(and CSS at the same time). It's fairly simple. Then move into Javascript and jQuery once you're comfortable with HTML. If you want to, you can continue learning server side scripting like PHP and then database management with SQL. Basically go in this order: HTML/CSS > Javascript/jQuery > PHP > SQL. | ||
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Lyzon
United Kingdom440 Posts
On February 17 2011 09:30 KevinIX wrote: You need to go straight to designing your own webpage. Practice is the only way you actually begin understanding how to code. In fact, you could write a webpage that teaches people how to make webpages. :D I'd begin learning HTML(and CSS at the same time). It's fairly simple. Then move into Javascript and jQuery once you're comfortable with HTML. If you want to, you can continue learning server side scripting like PHP and then database management with SQL. Basically go in this order: HTML/CSS > Javascript/jQuery > PHP > SQL. this is the best way, well this worked for me anyway best thing is to make a little hobby website about something you like or enjoy... the first mini websites i did was like a miniture gamefaqs.... but in pure html, no PHP..... that was long  but eventually once i started with php, i made my own arcade game site and just continued developing it after several years On February 17 2011 08:03 RedLuck wrote: Thanks for the encouragement. Any advice on the best methods of understanding and practicing the basic + advanced HTML. Also, where would be the best place to start begin the learning process (website tutorials, community sites, etc.)? I'm quite the newb (not noob) when it comes to web development but that's the part that has me so intrigued. When I bring up the page source on my most frequent website it just looks so beautiful (so nerdy) and that's what is driving me towards learning. the best advice i can give you is to join an active web design forum. Join and introduce yourself, but be honest. Dont say you are a master when your not, state your skill level as honestly as you can and ppl will be mroe likely to help you. as long as you show the will to learn. lets say you ask a simple question, if you show that you tried to research it yourself but just dont understand it, your more likely to get responses wereas youll just get lmgtfy trolls ¬_¬ but honestly, you need to just scower the web for any and all web development sites and just pick up information. when i was learning, i had about 20 different accounts at free webhosts, tonnes at obscure web design forums, bookmarks to loads of tutorial websites. i loved to learn hell i even tried (once i was kinda competent) to teach web design in a pokemon forum.... this is after years of learning so dont expect to master it in a day. you put the effort in, you will be rewarded nicely | ||
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Xyik
Canada728 Posts
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Sad[Panda]
United States458 Posts
How does one go about making a website profitable I have always wondered this even before making websites was something I wanted to do. Not only that but how do people make money (a la husky) through youtube and through streaming (a la Root.CatZ always says the commercials directly support them or something like that) I understand that it has to do with ads or something like that but how does it directly support the person putting them up (Websites make more sense than the other 2 since it makes more sense to me to have a company pay for adspace on your own personal webpage than it does a stream given to you by a website or a site who lets you host videos on their own server.) | ||
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luxx
United States140 Posts
On February 16 2011 23:23 telfire wrote: HTML/CSS has nothing to do with functionality. If you want to make an automated tournament site with self-updating brackets and all that jazz, there's going to be a lot more to it. You'll want to do some research into web application frameworks. Ruby on Rails is currently the best framework for rapid prototyping (and what we built z33k.com). I did php development work for more than a year, but I would argue rails is far better for learning, since it gets many of the conventions right (REST, database migrations, ORM, and many others that amount to very high developer productivity). Unless you want to actually do design, do not start with learning html/css, go right to the functionality, you can easily learn the styling later. There are lots of tutorials out there, but the main thing is to have a project to work on that you can get something out and keep releasing updates, even if it is simple at first. It is easy to get started: http://guides.rubyonrails.org/ and when you're done send me a PM and I can give you something to work on | ||
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Sad[Panda]
United States458 Posts
On February 18 2011 17:29 luxx wrote: You'll want to do some research into web application frameworks. Ruby on Rails is currently the best framework for rapid prototyping (and what we built z33k.com). I did php development work for more than a year, but I would argue rails is far better for learning, since it gets many of the conventions right (REST, database migrations, ORM, and many others that amount to very high developer productivity). Unless you want to actually do design, do not start with learning html/css, go right to the functionality, you can easily learn the styling later. There are lots of tutorials out there, but the main thing is to have a project to work on that you can get something out and keep releasing updates, even if it is simple at first. It is easy to get started: http://guides.rubyonrails.org/ and when you're done send me a PM and I can give you something to work on Did you read the OP at all... your replying to someone who gave a reply and yours is completely irrelevant and offtopic. its like all you did was look at the words "web design" in the topic and looked for a way to plug your website. Not to mention you say "Unless you want to actually do design" which was the whole premise of this fucking thread. | ||
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kOre
Canada3642 Posts
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Sad[Panda]
United States458 Posts
On February 18 2011 18:38 kOre wrote: Notepad++ FTW! I've used a ton of different programs but I find ++ to be the easiest to navigate and use in general. Thats what I have been using atm I like the options of tabs and the highlighting someone said NotePad2 is better don't see the real appeal to it that would make it "Better" than ++ I just really think the tabss make it ballercopter. On February 16 2011 23:23 telfire wrote: I suggest learning the basics from any of the millions of tutorials out there, so you know what you're looking at (if you don't already), and then opening up some of your favorite sites in Chrome or another Webkit-based browser with Web Inspector enabled (you can use Firebug also if you prefer but Web Inspector is much more feature rich). Then you can click on HTML elements and see the styles that were applied to them on the right side. You can also modify those styles to see what effects they have on the page. so far this is one of the most useful things at my disposal even after going through the whole CSS tutorial because it doesn't really direct you to do all of the specific things you may want so Looking at sites like TL and others through firebug (I only use Firefox ) I can actually see how other websites implement them and it highlights whats being affected by the code on screen which makes things so much easier to understand and identify lol | ||
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luxx
United States140 Posts
On February 18 2011 18:30 Sad[Panda] wrote: Did you read the OP at all... your replying to someone who gave a reply and yours is completely irrelevant and offtopic. its like all you did was look at the words "web design" in the topic and looked for a way to plug your website. Not to mention you say "Unless you want to actually do design" which was the whole premise of this fucking thread. Sorry if that sounded off-topic, but the OP does say: "I want to learn how to create a website, more specifically I want to learn how to create a team/tournament website" - to which I will again speak to the important point that modern websites are not made of pure html and css. Regarding z33k.com, which I helped build, it is a team and tournament website for starcraft 2, and sounds quite similar to what your proposing for League of Legends. If you are more comfortable talking about teamliquid, or some other site, that is fine with me but in most cases you are dealing with dynamic content. I am not saying that starting with html and css is a bad idea, but rather that if you go one level of abstraction higher, and choose to start with an application framework, you'll be guided by many of the best practices that are inherent to the framework. Focusing learning pure html/css without a dynamic frameworok is like learning to type without a computer. I have been through it, and you'll be able to learn html/css on the way. Tools that I would recommend to developers firefox addons: firebug, yslow, colorzilla, web developer toolbar, page speed sites: colourlovers.com, stackoverflow.com and not being defensive when asking for help | ||
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RedLuck
Canada253 Posts
can i apply a border to a table via an external CSS sheet? table { border-width: 1px; } is yielding no results, even tried to Id the table + may other variants. whats going on? :S | ||
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