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Sure, studies say I need 8 hours of sleep. But life tells me I don't have enough time.
I've been extremely busy as of late with school, and haven't even hardly been on tl.net, and played like 3 ladder games in 2.5 weeks?
Anyways, I have to wake up at like 7:30 every morning, and my parents are turning off the internet at 11:00. Now you say "why couldn't you just mess around before 11:00?" The answer to this is twofold. It's hard to tell how much work I actually have, and my parents wil killl me if I play before I work, as they put it.
My parents are both under the assumption that
1) my friends who do very very well in school get 9 hours of sleep
2) if they say they get less they are lieing
3) I get way less sleep than I need, and I am sleep deprived
4) 7.5-8 hours is way too little sleep
5) If I don't do well in school it's because of a lack of sleep
Despite the fact that I can't go to bed at 10:30 that's when they would like me to sleep. And it's somewhat ridiculous. They keep on saying I might be able to bargain for a later bedtime, but I have no idea what to say. Mommy, daddy, can I please go to bed at a normal time for people my age?
They maintain they are doing it because it is totally unhealthy to not get enough sleep. Meh, no idea what to do about the infamous sleep issue. Off to school!!
 
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hahahahhah 1030. how old are you??? jesus
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8 hours is actually the intended amount of time for us to sleep.
You just need to get used to it.
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Sorry to break it to you, (though I feel you already have discovered this), but your parents are kind of stupid.
Here's another thing: controlling the behaviour of your children doesn't actually teach them anything. One day you will escape their draconian rule (lol) through either moving away for college, moving out, etc.
I very often see people who were rigidly controlled turn into complete disasters as soon as they get more freedom because they don't have any *real* sense of responsibility, but have rather simply had no choice but to live/study a certain way. Once things are in their own hands they simply can't manage and make the correct decisions.
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Not getting enough sleep can really fuck you over later in life, I learned the hard way. I can see how it's frustrating, but you should at least try to go along with them, because they really are trying to teach you to live healthy, and if you cooperate that will probably get you more bargaining room later on.
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start paying rent and they will ease off on you.
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On February 01 2011 02:18 stormtemplar wrote:
Wow, the epic fail about that is this, is I'm 13. Slept zilch in the past 24 hours. Feel awesome. I think my body just hates sleep science. Get 8 hours. Feel horrid all day. Get 4 hours. Feel godly.
But really, I have a bipolar dad, and It really sucks when your parents are messed up, cuz you really want to like your parents, but nope...their irrational often and totally batshit crazy sometimes. Thankfully, I don't live with him, but GL with your parents. Can't really say more.
This is exactly what you should not listen to. You won't always be 13, and you won't always feel awesome.
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since when do studies say u need 8 hours of sleep? i thought 6-7 was the consensus and 8 hours a myth? (for young adults anyway, which i am assuming you are, which, now that i think about it, may not be a fair assumption)
but yeah, i feel best getting around 4-5 cycles in (6-7.5 hours). for a long while, i used to wake up naturally, without alarms, after 6 hours one night, 7.5 the next, 6 hours the third, etc)
now my sleep schedule is kind of messed up so i'm forced to take naps which i hate. i should really fix it.
to be fair, i think a good rule of thumb for any age is if you need an alarm to wake up, you're not sleeping enough.
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The 8 hours theory is complete bullshit. You can go do some research and look it up. You want to go through four cycles of sleep which are roughly an hour and a half apart from each other(ROUGHLY because it depends on person to person).
What this means is, at minimum, you want 6 hours of sleep. This can be extended a little bit or be a little bit less depending on how your rhythm works. Chances are, since it sounds like you're in your later teens, your circadian rhythm is extended anyways, meaning you won't be getting 8 hours of sleep in an arranged schedule no matter what. Neither will your classmates, who will likely be tossing and turning trying to fall asleep trying to get those 9 hours every night.
Basically, tell your parents they're misinformed sheep and move the fuck out whenever you can.
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On February 01 2011 02:29 proot wrote:
The 8 hours theory is complete bullshit. You can go do some research and look it up. You want to go through four cycles of sleep which are roughly an hour and a half apart from each other(ROUGHLY because it depends on person to person).
Heh..
Going through four sleep cycles doesn't mean you will be well rested when you wake up. The 8 hours isn't complete bullshit, because it's what the average person should need. Not everyone does need 8 hours though, as some need more than 8 and others need less.
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8751 Posts
Sleeping the proper amount of time is very simple. Just don't use an alarm to wake up. If you wake up naturally from a quiet and dark and comfortable environment, then you've slept the proper amount for that night. If you are sleep deprived, this'll probably be 9 hours or more. If you are caught up on sleep, then this'll be something like 7-9 hours, with the average young person taking about 8 hours.
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On February 01 2011 02:29 proot wrote:
The 8 hours theory is complete bullshit. You can go do some research and look it up. You want to go through four cycles of sleep which are roughly an hour and a half apart from each other(ROUGHLY because it depends on person to person).
What this means is, at minimum, you want 6 hours of sleep. This can be extended a little bit or be a little bit less depending on how your rhythm works. Chances are, since it sounds like you're in your later teens, your circadian rhythm is extended anyways, meaning you won't be getting 8 hours of sleep in an arranged schedule no matter what. Neither will your classmates, who will likely be tossing and turning trying to fall asleep trying to get those 9 hours every night.
Basically, tell your parents they're misinformed sheep and move the fuck out whenever you can.
It's really sad when your either genetically superior and/or less damaged than your parents because then they seem less real as people and more like plastic or like animals. And at the same time they make what to you really stupid decisions (which are actually stupid) and ruin your life.
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Calgary25993 Posts
Parents blogs are all the same.
#1) OP ignores the fact that there is a lot of truth in what his parents say.
Yes, shutting the internet off is a little ridiculous. But when choosing between going to bed and getting 8 hours and dicking around on the internet, one is obviously going to give you a higher chance at good grades.
#2) OP doesn't talk to parents.
Instead of writing this blog, use your mouth to say these words to your parents.
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8751 Posts
btw the studies have shown that well rested people perform better on all sorts of mental and physical tests. and they've also shown that people who are sleep deprived report that they feel like they've gotten enough sleep. so you can't trust your own feelings on sleep. and you also cant test your own performance to see if you are actually performing better after you've gotten yourself well rested, because it's definitely going to be way more anecdotal than scientific. but if you believe in the scientific method and the work of scientists who have gotten doctorates and spent their lives studying sleep, then you don't have to!
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On February 01 2011 02:35 SolHeiM wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2011 02:29 proot wrote:
The 8 hours theory is complete bullshit. You can go do some research and look it up. You want to go through four cycles of sleep which are roughly an hour and a half apart from each other(ROUGHLY because it depends on person to person). Heh.. Going through four sleep cycles doesn't mean you will be well rested when you wake up. The 8 hours isn't complete bullshit, because it's what the average person should need. Not everyone does need 8 hours though, as some need more than 8 and others need less.
Actually, you will be well rested when you wake up at the end of the cycle if you're the person that has exactly 1 1/2 hour sleep cycles. If you took the time to read all of what I said, I mentioned the cycle depends on person to person. The 8 hours rule is bullshit because sleep cycles don't extend to two hours apart. A normal, healthy person will always feel well rested with much less sleep than this. The 8 hour rule might even hurt some people that begin a new sleep cycle in the middle of when they wake up, making them feel groggier than if they woke up earlier.
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On February 01 2011 02:45 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
btw the studies have shown that well rested people perform better on all sorts of mental and physical tests. and they've also shown that people who are sleep deprived report that they feel like they've gotten enough sleep. so you can't trust your own feelings on sleep. and you also cant test your own performance to see if you are actually performing better after you've gotten yourself well rested, because it's definitely going to be way more anecdotal than scientific. but if you believe in the scientific method and the work of scientists who have gotten doctorates and spent their lives studying sleep, then you don't have to!
That isn't what those studies have showed. They have showed that ON AVERAGE people who get to sleep more perform better on MOST tests. Since Sleep Medicine is relatively young new studies have only just come out that find that ALL people do BEST with a specific amount of sleep. Now typically this is more rather than less, relative to 7-8 hours. But there is plenty of evidence that shows variations called "short sleepers" who sleep 5-6 hours/night and perform as well as average 7-8 hour sleepers and "long sleepers" who require >9 hours of sleep.
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you're 13. get over it. Why not try reading a book before bed? In a few years you can move out and use all the internet you want and not go to sleep and find out how it works out on your own
btw my psyc prof only needs about 4 hours of sleep each night. it's different for everyone.
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On February 01 2011 02:45 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
and they've also shown that people who are sleep deprived report that they feel like they've gotten enough sleep. so you can't trust your own feelings on sleep. and you also cant test your own performance to see if you are actually performing better after you've gotten yourself well rested, because it's definitely going to be way more anecdotal than scientific.
probably also why polyphasic sleep "seems" to work.
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Pretty sure when I was 13 I had to go to bed at 9, and we got 56k internet when I was 14.
You are blessed young man!
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On February 01 2011 03:36 sammler wrote:
Pretty sure when I was 13 I had to go to bed at 9, and we got 56k internet when I was 14.
You are blessed young man!
Yea, I remember those dark 56k days and before that I had to suffer even more with 28.8k 
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On February 01 2011 02:41 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Sleeping the proper amount of time is very simple. Just don't use an alarm to wake up. If you wake up naturally from a quiet and dark and comfortable environment, then you've slept the proper amount for that night. If you are sleep deprived, this'll probably be 9 hours or more. If you are caught up on sleep, then this'll be something like 7-9 hours, with the average young person taking about 8 hours.
I don't think the average person needs 8 hours of sleep. I'm pretty sure that might apply for someone who's 13 or something, but once you reach adulthood you only need like 6 hours to be well rested, and some people get by just fine with around 4.
I know I can function just fine with 6 hours of sleep. 4 hours I can keep up for a few days before it catches up to me.
I also don't use alarms to wake up if I can help it, you're right about that. Most people who need an alarm to wake up just don't give themselves enough time to sleep.
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as one who suffers from severe chronic insomnia and needs a specific time schedule for sleeping/awakening, i can assure any skeptics that not getting enough sleep is awful. of course i am an outlier situation as compared to a general person, but try getting less-than what your normally get for sleep over a period of a few days, and see how you do then
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On February 01 2011 02:43 Chill wrote:
Parents blogs are all the same.
#1) OP ignores the fact that there is a lot of truth in what his parents say.
Yes, shutting the internet off is a little ridiculous. But when choosing between going to bed and getting 8 hours and dicking around on the internet, one is obviously going to give you a higher chance at good grades.
#2) OP doesn't talk to parents.
Instead of writing this blog, use your mouth to say these words to your parents.
You might be right about the majority of parent blogs but Froadac's parents seem to be more crazy/stupid than most shitty parents and prior attempts of rational communication hasn't gone well.
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Canada9720 Posts
On February 01 2011 04:17 [Eternal]Phoenix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2011 02:41 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Sleeping the proper amount of time is very simple. Just don't use an alarm to wake up. If you wake up naturally from a quiet and dark and comfortable environment, then you've slept the proper amount for that night. If you are sleep deprived, this'll probably be 9 hours or more. If you are caught up on sleep, then this'll be something like 7-9 hours, with the average young person taking about 8 hours. I don't think the average person needs 8 hours of sleep. I'm pretty sure that might apply for someone who's 13 or something, but once you reach adulthood you only need like 6 hours to be well rested, and some people get by just fine with around 4. I know I can function just fine with 6 hours of sleep. 4 hours I can keep up for a few days before it catches up to me. I also don't use alarms to wake up if I can help it, you're right about that. Most people who need an alarm to wake up just don't give themselves enough time to sleep.
studies (EVEN MORE STUDIES LOLOLOL) also show that people who get continually less than 5 hours of sleep per day are at greater risk for heart disease. it doesn't have to be all at once, but you need more than 5 hours boi
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On February 01 2011 02:41 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Sleeping the proper amount of time is very simple. Just don't use an alarm to wake up. If you wake up naturally from a quiet and dark and comfortable environment, then you've slept the proper amount for that night. If you are sleep deprived, this'll probably be 9 hours or more. If you are caught up on sleep, then this'll be something like 7-9 hours, with the average young person taking about 8 hours.
I definitely do not agree with this. If I'd never set an alarm I'd sleep for like 10 hours a night atleast. When I'm too lazy to set an alarm I always wake up with an headache from sleeping for too long. (Not just for a day or so, I can sleep 10 hours a night for longer periods, like weeks etc). Sleeping longer doesn't give me any rest either. I get more tired from sleeping 10 hours than from sleeping 8h, maybe because my body gets into ultra-slack mode and gets used to it, I dunno.
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On February 01 2011 04:46 Bergys wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2011 02:41 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Sleeping the proper amount of time is very simple. Just don't use an alarm to wake up. If you wake up naturally from a quiet and dark and comfortable environment, then you've slept the proper amount for that night. If you are sleep deprived, this'll probably be 9 hours or more. If you are caught up on sleep, then this'll be something like 7-9 hours, with the average young person taking about 8 hours. I definitely do not agree with this. If I'd never set an alarm I'd sleep for like 10 hours a night atleast. When I'm too lazy to set an alarm I always wake up with an headache from sleeping for too long. (Not just for a day or so, I can sleep 10 hours a night for longer periods, like weeks etc). Sleeping longer doesn't give me any rest either. I get more tired from sleeping 10 hours than from sleeping 8h, maybe because my body gets into ultra-slack mode and gets used to it, I dunno.
yes, you have to find what the right amount is, which is just when you wake up by yourself. I also feel very very tired when I sleep too much, same when I don't sleep enough, but when you sleep the right amount it feels really really good.
It's also very important to sleep at night, sleeping during the day is bad, you won't rest well and sleep more than you would normally do at night because of it
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11:00? That's not bad.
Get your homework done faster. That would be one way to play Starcraft. I seriously doubt that homework takes longer than an hour or two if you concentrate.
If you want to stay up past 11:00, you can crack your neighbor's wifi, you can pick up reading as a hobby, or you can just play offline games
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When you get to college and are free of your parents you will most likely fuck things up so bad and you'll eventually start going to bed at 10:30 and feeling amazing when go to bed and when you wake up. Honestly, having parents to discipline you is like this is a helpful crutch not an obstacle.
Honestly worst case scenario you wake up earlier than you need to, more likely you are just trying to squeeze out extra gaming time and hurting the rest of your time by depriving yourself of sleep.
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On February 01 2011 02:43 Chill wrote:
Parents blogs are all the same.
#1) OP ignores the fact that there is a lot of truth in what his parents say.
Yes, shutting the internet off is a little ridiculous. But when choosing between going to bed and getting 8 hours and dicking around on the internet, one is obviously going to give you a higher chance at good grades.
#2) OP doesn't talk to parents.
Instead of writing this blog, use your mouth to say these words to your parents.
Errr there is a ton of truth that getting an adequate amount of sleep is important I know they think they are helping me by making me get more sleep I currently am getting 8+ hours of sleep. I admit that I probably need more sleep than I would like to admit but because most of mr friends get less than me and seem to function fine coupled with the fact I never stay up late make<8 hours of sleep mythical. I probably wouldn't care if I knew what functioning on too little sleep was like.
Regarding point two I had a long talk with them last night and I wrote. This when I woke up an hour before I needed to and my parents were still asleep.
@Tyler yep sleep is important I'll try waking without an alarm I've had one for10 years. I'm 16
I was going to go down this path when writing it, but didn’t because I didn’t want to be late for school. But I think it needs to be addressed to elucidate the situation.
When I work hard, study hard, etc, I can have my homework done by 9-9:30. And then bassoon so I can have everything done by 10. But my parents get super agitated if I do anything other than study. And they go to bed at 10:30. So I feel like I’m told I can only do anything gaming related after my parents sleep, and there is very little time between 10:30 and 11:00.
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On February 01 2011 04:46 Bergys wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2011 02:41 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Sleeping the proper amount of time is very simple. Just don't use an alarm to wake up. If you wake up naturally from a quiet and dark and comfortable environment, then you've slept the proper amount for that night. If you are sleep deprived, this'll probably be 9 hours or more. If you are caught up on sleep, then this'll be something like 7-9 hours, with the average young person taking about 8 hours. I definitely do not agree with this. If I'd never set an alarm I'd sleep for like 10 hours a night atleast. When I'm too lazy to set an alarm I always wake up with an headache from sleeping for too long. (Not just for a day or so, I can sleep 10 hours a night for longer periods, like weeks etc). Sleeping longer doesn't give me any rest either. I get more tired from sleeping 10 hours than from sleeping 8h, maybe because my body gets into ultra-slack mode and gets used to it, I dunno.
Agreed -- I never sleep without setting an alarm, because I could easily sleep 10-11 hours and wake up feeling like shit :/.
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Your sleeping habits originated from a paradigm that your parents are forcing onto you. Your parents are in a sense, taking away your freedoms. Your parents are forcing you to do something they think they should do. Let me also add that your parents probably don't understand neither the mind and/or statistics very well. When you read you should get 8 hours of sleep
a) That assumes you are sleeping monophasically
b) That is an average, which varies person to person
c) Most people are incredibly stressed and aren't even doing the things they want to do, which makes them require additional sleep than people who take charge of their attitudes..
d) The studies never include how many people attempted to alter their sleeping habits prior to the study.
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Normal time to sleep is around 10:30, 11. I have no idea why you are frustrated.
No idea why getting a lot of sleep is something that makes you unhappy.
It sounds to me like you are poorly managing your time moreso than "not enough time in the day to get 8 hours of sleep".
It's not 8 hours for everyone, but depending on the age, the recommended time of sleep varies from 5 (?) to like 9. I get about 11 hours of sleep on a good day.
Lack of sleep can and will be a cause of your poor grades. It may not be a primary one, but denying it didn't play a single role in your own poor grades is silly.
Lastly, I think you have your priorities mixed. You're moaning about being forced to sleep and not being able to dawdle and wander all over the internet.
Best of luck. I remember the days where staying up all night was awesome and I was king!
Now, I can barely last past 1-2 ):
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Who cares what "normal" sleep time is. OP is high school aged (I assume?) and the fact that his parents still tell him when to sleep is fucking ridiculous. Not everyone needs the same amount of sleep, and for many people losing a few hours of sleep is worth having a few extra hours of fun. Especially since OP sounds like a coddled suburban kid who spends his entire day doing school + hw.
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On February 01 2011 09:38 Torte de Lini wrote:
Normal time to sleep is around 10:30, 11. I have no idea why you are frustrated.
No idea why getting a lot of sleep is something that makes you unhappy.
It sounds to me like you are poorly managing your time moreso than "not enough time in the day to get 8 hours of sleep".
It's not 8 hours for everyone, but depending on the age, the recommended time of sleep varies from 5 (?) to like 9. I get about 11 hours of sleep on a good day.
Lack of sleep can and will be a cause of your poor grades. It may not be a primary one, but denying it didn't play a single role in your own poor grades is silly.
Lastly, I think you have your priorities mixed. You're moaning about being forced to sleep and not being able to dawdle and wander all over the internet.
Best of luck. I remember the days where staying up all night was awesome and I was king!
Now, I can barely last past 1-2 ):
I think much of what you are saying has been explained by me in http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=189217¤tpage=2#31
My grades are good, just not ridiculously good
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As long as you're getting what your body needs. Otherwise it'll punish you for it later. Isn't there a study or two out there showing a link between lack of sleep and obesity?
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We need Micronesia in this thread to tell us how we really need to sleep...
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United States24755 Posts
Hm a lot of things have been said already in this thread. A few ideas from me:
1) Everyone is different. You need to figure out what works for you, and the younger you are the less your parents will let you figure this out.
2) Not everyone can manage without an alarm as a method for determining how much sleep they need; it varies from person to person.
3) 8 hours is not a must but is a good goal while you are still growing up. You don't need to get up until 7:30am which isn't bad at all... therefore you can go to bed at ~11:15-11:30 and still have time to get 8 hours of sleep. It sounds like you should negotiate that you'll go to bed at 11:15. You most likely don't need more than 8 hours of sleep.
4) The average person (give it a few years for yourself) needs ~6.5 hours of sleep. If you ever get too little sleep one night it is easier to make it up the next night because your sleep becomes more efficient/dense when you are a bit sleep deprived. Just return to your 8 hours a night and you should be fine. If you want to stay up later than 11:30pm on week nights then your parents have a right to tell you you shouldn't.
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I would guess that fitness and general health also affects the amount of sleep needed.
After I finished school I started sleeping for about 12 hours a night >_>
It was probably a mix of being sleep deprived, the stress from school, and the freedom of being able to sleep for as long as I wanted. But for a while I didn't get out of the habit.
I've now cut it down to ~10 hours! XD
I've been trying to have a more normal sleep pattern, because 12 hrs a night is obv ridiculous. But after being in the pattern for a while, 8 hours becomes painfully not enough, let alone 6.5 hours (as micronesia says is average)
School is all about being super busy and not having enough time.. but if you're 16, it's only going to get worse? ah.. you'll figure it out! glgl 
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EPT
