This strat is totally ruining the game - why hasn't blizz looked into it? Gah.

Every noob in top 10 diamond with 50 apm is doing it - What's your counter to it? You can spot him stopping gas production at 50, and mass chronoboosting his gate way upgrade. If I take my 2nd gas - or any gas at all, I'm dead.

PvP is truly a cheese, or be cheesed - and it pisses me off. It shouldn't take 160+ apm to beat someone with 10.

KTF_CloaK

Netherlands1338 Posts

January 29 2011 14:05 GMT

It is not unstoppable, but very hard to stop in a PvP.

Because in PvP you have to macth the units, so match the gateways he has, so you have to 4gate yourself too... It's pretty annoying, yes

dahornnn

United Kingdom395 Posts

January 29 2011 14:06 GMT

If u c them stop gas @ 50 chrono ur first zealot out(edit: and run it to their main) as a lot of people ive noticed skip the 1st zealot when doing this strat and then a couple cannons around ur probes/buildings and then just go for voidrays or a robo
GL

dtz

5834 Posts

January 29 2011 14:10 GMT

its much easier to stop than the 1 zealot 5/6 stalkers 4 gate i feel.

If the position is close, chronoboost your first zealot to his base. Korean 4 gate build usually does not build any units in order to get those 4 gateways asap. You can do a lot of damage.

Otherwise, you basically have to match him by chronoboosting your warp gate totally but make sure you constantly pumps out units from your gateway. You can put down 4 gate + make units because if you go normal pvp build, you'll have the better economy. Especially since he has to throw down a lot of pylons.

Once you survive the first wave, you're fine because after that your warp gate are done. It is only about stopping the first wave of warp ins with your gateway units + probes without suffering much damage.

green.at

Austria1459 Posts

January 29 2011 14:18 GMT

fix the thing with vision up the ramp and i'm good

Commodore

United States97 Posts

January 29 2011 14:43 GMT

On January 29 2011 23:00 Qzy wrote:
This strat is totally ruining the game - why hasn't blizz looked into it? Gah.

Every noob in top 10 diamond with 50 apm is doing it - What's your counter to it? You can spot him stopping gas production at 50, and mass chronoboosting his gate way upgrade. If I take my 2nd gas - or any gas at all, I'm dead.

PvP is truly a cheese, or be cheesed - and it pisses me off. It shouldn't take 160+ apm to beat someone with 10.

I agree with KTF_CloaK. At low diamond level, I can get away with going DTs against this, but at the higher levels, I find that that you just have to 4 gate too. This way, it doesn't take 160+ APM to beat someone with 10 APM. It only takes 11 APM.

Whiplash

United States2928 Posts

January 29 2011 15:23 GMT

If you slip up even slightly you lose to a 4 gate in pvp. It really sucks but I don't think blizzard is going to do anything about it.

50bani

Romania480 Posts

January 29 2011 15:40 GMT

Email Blizzard to remove the warpgate upgrade when playing PvP then. I am sure if polled most players would agree to do that if indeed they felt 4warpgate is the dominant build in the matchup. I am but a Terran, so can assist you no longer.

Scrimpton

United Kingdom465 Posts

January 29 2011 15:45 GMT

Id say that this should be posted in blogs.. but it already is.. so carry on i guess..

NotSupporting

Sweden1998 Posts

January 29 2011 15:48 GMT

#10

The fact that you mention APM twice in your relatively short post and stress it's importance in this early game phase of PvP tells me that you are probably not on a level of understanding of the MU required to understand different counters and responses. Four gates in general and the korean one in particular are very easy to scout in the early game, there are many tells for them (cutting probes, saving CB etc etc). Korean 4gate is most of the time started up by a 10gate which is a super obvious tell. Don't cry to blizzard about the game being broken just because you lack of understanding.

wdge

60 Posts

January 29 2011 15:56 GMT

#11

On January 30 2011 00:48 NotSupporting wrote:
The fact that you mention APM twice in your relatively short post and stress it's importance in this early game phase of PvP tells me that you are probably not on a level of understanding of the MU required to understand different counters and responses. Four gates in general and the korean one in particular are very easy to scout in the early game, there are many tells for them (cutting probes, saving CB etc etc). Korean 4gate is most of the time started up by a 10gate which is a super obvious tell. Don't cry to blizzard about the game being broken just because you lack of understanding.

And why not provide an answer to his post (a good counter) instead of being just arrogant?

NotSupporting

Sweden1998 Posts

January 29 2011 16:08 GMT

#12

On January 30 2011 00:56 wdge wrote:

Show nested quote +

And why not provide an answer to his post (a good counter) instead of being just arrogant?

I believe I did help him out by giving him some pointers when it comes to scouting? I am not being arrogant, but you do not open a "help me thread" by crying about the game being broken and then mucking his "10 apm" opponents who should not be able to beat him if it wasn't for this "one imbalanced build". I usually like to add 3 gates and just defend it by 4gating on my own. I see people who like to use canons but remember not to overcommit to static defence since they can put 3 works back on gas and get stalkers which can really mess with any canons/simcity wall.

Salv

Canada3083 Posts

January 29 2011 17:15 GMT

#13

Like others have said, as long as you seen it coming (and you can see it coming a mile away) you can stop it without that much trouble. You can just chrono out your own warp-gate research, cut probes to match gateways, and then resume probe production. His first wave is the hardest one like others have said, and you'll usually have to use probes to kill it. Thing is, you can afford to lose like, 5-6 probes and still be ahead because he's skipped everything to do it.

I think a big problem is that a lot of people make stalkers and sentries still, and that's no good. Just keep making zealots and micro them. So many people don't micro their zealots.

MrBitter

United States2940 Posts

January 29 2011 18:06 GMT

#14

In my opinion, warp gate tech is just too fast. It's a very frustrating mechanic for Zerg players too. Honestly, I feel if it didn't finish so fast, all match ups would benefit. Maybe just increasing it's cost would balance things. 200/200 seems like a very reasonable price to pay for what's, in my opinion, one of the most powerful upgrades in the game.

WniO

United States2706 Posts

January 29 2011 18:11 GMT

#15

On January 30 2011 03:06 MrBitter wrote:
In my opinion, warp gate tech is just too fast. It's a very frustrating mechanic for Zerg players too. Honestly, I feel if it didn't finish so fast, all match ups would benefit. Maybe just increasing it's cost would balance things. 200/200 seems like a very reasonable price to pay for what's, in my opinion, one of the most powerful upgrades in the game.

yeah. i wonder how balanced it would be to reverse the roles on the upgrade so it costs a lot but upgrades quick rather than costs pretty much nothing and takes forever.

sikyon

Canada1045 Posts

January 29 2011 18:53 GMT

#16

When you scout it (low probe count, 1 gate, maybe pulling probes off gas) then you need to just stop probes, make gates. Pull probes off gas too, if he does it.

Coramoor

Canada455 Posts

January 29 2011 18:58 GMT

#17

it's pretty easy to read, and you'll generally have more probes, and if you time it right you'll stop it with ease, it can be a little tricky but definitely nothing along the lines of 160 apm

NotSupporting

Sweden1998 Posts

January 29 2011 19:06 GMT

#18

Warpgate upgrade is actually rather slow, you have to realize that protoss spend a ton of their CB on getting it up. In my opinion it would be better to buff normal gates making them as fast as warpgates (so that the only benefit with warpgate is being able to create units anywhere) and then make the upgrade 100/75. This would make it so that the protoss would gain from just having normal gates early game since you would not have to pay the cost for warpgates and then you would actually get a defenders advantage in pvp since you would not have to invest in warptech and therefore have an extra gate or more units.

Servius_Fulvius

United States947 Posts

January 29 2011 19:08 GMT

#19

On January 30 2011 00:23 Whiplash wrote:
If you slip up even slightly you lose to a 4 gate in pvp. It really sucks but I don't think blizzard is going to do anything about it.

Welcome to the life of a zerg player where one little mistake costs you the game!

Yeah, it's a slippery slope, and it's really frustrating when you're losing to players that are clearly mechanically inferior to you. But there ARE ways to play against it, even if they're a LOT harder than pulling off the warpgate rush to begin with. We can debate possible fixes until the cows come home, but in the end assume that Blizzard is not going to fix the issue and play to your best against it.

The plus side is once you've got a decent way to play against it you can compete with those top 10 Diamonds with 50APM.

Qzy

Denmark1121 Posts

January 29 2011 22:07 GMT

#20

My solution to this strat - make warp in take more seconds, and lower the cooldown on the warp gates. That way it'll take longer to warp in, giving the defender a bigger edge.