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Qzy
Denmark1121 Posts
Every noob in top 10 diamond with 50 apm is doing it - What's your counter to it? You can spot him stopping gas production at 50, and mass chronoboosting his gate way upgrade. If I take my 2nd gas - or any gas at all, I'm dead. PvP is truly a cheese, or be cheesed - and it pisses me off. It shouldn't take 160+ apm to beat someone with 10.   | ||
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KTF_CloaK
Netherlands1338 Posts
Because in PvP you have to macth the units, so match the gateways he has, so you have to 4gate yourself too... It's pretty annoying, yes | ||
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dahornnn
United Kingdom395 Posts
GL | ||
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dtz
5834 Posts
If the position is close, chronoboost your first zealot to his base. Korean 4 gate build usually does not build any units in order to get those 4 gateways asap. You can do a lot of damage. Otherwise, you basically have to match him by chronoboosting your warp gate totally but make sure you constantly pumps out units from your gateway. You can put down 4 gate + make units because if you go normal pvp build, you'll have the better economy. Especially since he has to throw down a lot of pylons. Once you survive the first wave, you're fine because after that your warp gate are done. It is only about stopping the first wave of warp ins with your gateway units + probes without suffering much damage. | ||
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green.at
Austria1459 Posts
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Commodore
United States97 Posts
On January 29 2011 23:00 Qzy wrote: This strat is totally ruining the game - why hasn't blizz looked into it? Gah. Every noob in top 10 diamond with 50 apm is doing it - What's your counter to it? You can spot him stopping gas production at 50, and mass chronoboosting his gate way upgrade. If I take my 2nd gas - or any gas at all, I'm dead. PvP is truly a cheese, or be cheesed - and it pisses me off. It shouldn't take 160+ apm to beat someone with 10. I agree with KTF_CloaK. At low diamond level, I can get away with going DTs against this, but at the higher levels, I find that that you just have to 4 gate too. This way, it doesn't take 160+ APM to beat someone with 10 APM. It only takes 11 APM. | ||
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Whiplash
United States2929 Posts
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50bani
Romania480 Posts
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Scrimpton
United Kingdom465 Posts
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NotSupporting
Sweden1998 Posts
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wdge
60 Posts
On January 30 2011 00:48 NotSupporting wrote: The fact that you mention APM twice in your relatively short post and stress it's importance in this early game phase of PvP tells me that you are probably not on a level of understanding of the MU required to understand different counters and responses. Four gates in general and the korean one in particular are very easy to scout in the early game, there are many tells for them (cutting probes, saving CB etc etc). Korean 4gate is most of the time started up by a 10gate which is a super obvious tell. Don't cry to blizzard about the game being broken just because you lack of understanding. And why not provide an answer to his post (a good counter) instead of being just arrogant? | ||
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NotSupporting
Sweden1998 Posts
On January 30 2011 00:56 wdge wrote: And why not provide an answer to his post (a good counter) instead of being just arrogant? I believe I did help him out by giving him some pointers when it comes to scouting? I am not being arrogant, but you do not open a "help me thread" by crying about the game being broken and then mucking his "10 apm" opponents who should not be able to beat him if it wasn't for this "one imbalanced build". I usually like to add 3 gates and just defend it by 4gating on my own. I see people who like to use canons but remember not to overcommit to static defence since they can put 3 works back on gas and get stalkers which can really mess with any canons/simcity wall. | ||
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Salv
Canada3083 Posts
I think a big problem is that a lot of people make stalkers and sentries still, and that's no good. Just keep making zealots and micro them. So many people don't micro their zealots. | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
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WniO
United States2706 Posts
On January 30 2011 03:06 MrBitter wrote: In my opinion, warp gate tech is just too fast. It's a very frustrating mechanic for Zerg players too. Honestly, I feel if it didn't finish so fast, all match ups would benefit. Maybe just increasing it's cost would balance things. 200/200 seems like a very reasonable price to pay for what's, in my opinion, one of the most powerful upgrades in the game. yeah. i wonder how balanced it would be to reverse the roles on the upgrade so it costs a lot but upgrades quick rather than costs pretty much nothing and takes forever. | ||
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sikyon
Canada1045 Posts
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Coramoor
Canada455 Posts
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NotSupporting
Sweden1998 Posts
On January 30 2011 03:06 MrBitter wrote: In my opinion, warp gate tech is just too fast. It's a very frustrating mechanic for Zerg players too. Honestly, I feel if it didn't finish so fast, all match ups would benefit. Maybe just increasing it's cost would balance things. 200/200 seems like a very reasonable price to pay for what's, in my opinion, one of the most powerful upgrades in the game. Warpgate upgrade is actually rather slow, you have to realize that protoss spend a ton of their CB on getting it up. In my opinion it would be better to buff normal gates making them as fast as warpgates (so that the only benefit with warpgate is being able to create units anywhere) and then make the upgrade 100/75. This would make it so that the protoss would gain from just having normal gates early game since you would not have to pay the cost for warpgates and then you would actually get a defenders advantage in pvp since you would not have to invest in warptech and therefore have an extra gate or more units. | ||
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Servius_Fulvius
United States947 Posts
On January 30 2011 00:23 Whiplash wrote: If you slip up even slightly you lose to a 4 gate in pvp. It really sucks but I don't think blizzard is going to do anything about it. Welcome to the life of a zerg player where one little mistake costs you the game! Yeah, it's a slippery slope, and it's really frustrating when you're losing to players that are clearly mechanically inferior to you. But there ARE ways to play against it, even if they're a LOT harder than pulling off the warpgate rush to begin with. We can debate possible fixes until the cows come home, but in the end assume that Blizzard is not going to fix the issue and play to your best against it. The plus side is once you've got a decent way to play against it you can compete with those top 10 Diamonds with 50APM. | ||
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Qzy
Denmark1121 Posts
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
On January 30 2011 07:07 Qzy wrote: My solution to this strat - make warp in take more seconds, and lower the cooldown on the warp gates. That way it'll take longer to warp in, giving the defender a bigger edge. or have a sensor tower type range for warp gates where you can warp in units so you either have to proxy gates increasing the risk of the build or have at least some walk time for units. | ||
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Allred
United States352 Posts
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Alexson
Belarus293 Posts
On January 30 2011 00:48 NotSupporting wrote: The fact that you mention APM twice in your relatively short post and stress it's importance in this early game phase of PvP tells me that you are probably not on a level of understanding of the MU required to understand different counters and responses. Four gates in general and the korean one in particular are very easy to scout in the early game, there are many tells for them (cutting probes, saving CB etc etc). Korean 4gate is most of the time started up by a 10gate which is a super obvious tell. Don't cry to blizzard about the game being broken just because you lack of understanding. holy crap strong name to post ratio | ||
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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
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craz3d
Bulgaria856 Posts
On January 31 2011 10:09 57 Corvette wrote: If you use this build, attacking before you throw down the robo, you can pwn a korean 4gate. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LopMdNKVtLA Except in the video there's no korean 4gate? | ||
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