• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 16:06
CET 22:06
KST 06:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? [D] Hacker peak in sc2 ? Liquibets sc2 season 30 Evil Geniuses - shutting down Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win
Tourneys
SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Rollback Netcode in Brood War SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! Ziemie's Starcraft 1 Prequel Campaign 🇺🇦 Ukrainian StarCraft:BroodWar community reborn
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [$1250] International ShieldBattery League KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Deus Ex 3!? Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10753 users

[G] Investing (part 5)

Blogs > azndsh
Post a Reply
azndsh
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4447 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-01 20:59:39
December 01 2010 04:12 GMT
#1
To review:
1. Why invest?
2. Information (and EMH)
3. Minimizing variance
4. Understanding costs

If you've been following along, I've talked about several things that should factor into your investment decisions, including objectives, variance, and cost. Now it's time to tie it all together and figure out what actually fit all of the following.

Criteria
1. Relatively lower risk, which can be accomplished through diversification. This rules out most individual stocks and any leveraged products.

2. In general, the more something trades, the smaller the bid-ask spread. Thus, the more popular something is, the less it costs to enter/exit positions. We want to pick products with lots of volume and market capitalization.

3. Finally, we want to avoid high fees, so be careful when you're looking at mutual funds or ETFs that have high management fees or expense ratios.

ETFs
In general, I advocate ETFs (exchange-traded funds) because they can meet all of the above objectives. If you were to create your own diversified portfolio, you'd have to go out and individually buy dozens of different things. ETFs are also pretty popular these days, so you'd face pretty small spreads for the important ones. Finally, they usually have lower fees than comparable mutual funds and certainly lower costs than actively managing your positions.

Here's a list of ETFs ordered by category from lowest to highest risk/expected return.


Fixed Income
Basically debt, these guys are considered safer than stocks because if a company goes bankrupt, these guys get paid first even if the stock goes to zero. They usually pay out cash on a regular basis (interest on the debt). This is good for people who want some regular income with no real intent to grow. This is more ideal for people who are retired and want to live off their savings.

TIP - US Treasuries. US government debt is the safest thing in the world. Note that the price can still change, but it can't ever really go to zero in the foreseeable future without the world burning and crashing.

LQD - US corporate debt of investment-grade companies (the ones considered safest). Higher interest than treasuries.

AGG - All US corporate debt. More payouts than just investment-grade companies, but also more risk. Still considered pretty safe as far as investing is concerned.


US Stocks
This category is the stuff that people are by far the most familiar with. Definitely should be part of any balanced portfolio.

SPY - The 500 largest public US companies. This is also the single most popular ETF.

IWM - Russell 2000 consists of the 1000th-3000th largest companies in the US. These guys are smaller and thus higher risk and their performance tends to be similar to the S&P 500.

QQQQ - NASDAQ 100 stocks. This index consists of the largest 100 companies on the NASDAQ, which in general contains a lot of tech stocks. It has some overlap with the S&P 500.

XLF, XLE, etc. Finance stocks, energy stocks, and so on. There's one for every sector of the economy as classified by S&P if you want a specific focus.


International Stocks
In general, it's a good idea to have some exposure to the rest of the world to further diversify your positions. Plus, a lot of people make the argument that there's more potential for growth especially in developing economies.

EFA - MSCI EAFE Index of stocks in developed countries. Biggest members: Japan, United Kingdom, France, Australia, Germany, Switzerland.

EEM, VWO - These two ETFs are basically the same thing. The MSCI Emerging Markets Index of stocks in developing countries. Biggest members: China, Brazil, India, Russia (aka BRIC)

FXI, EWZ, etc. China and Brazil, respectively, if you want a specific country focus.


Commodities
Generally speaking, I don't recommend investing in commodities for a pretty simple reason: they don't produce anything. Sure the price of gold might go up, but in the long run, it's just gold. Companies and economies can grow larger and produce more wealth, but gold just sits there. I suppose the coolest thing about these is that it has really made investing in gold/silver/oil/etc more accessible to the average person.

GLD, SLV - gold, silver, etc.

paper
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
13197 Posts
December 01 2010 04:40 GMT
#2
Fuck me I'm cramming CFA level I right now...

X _ X
Hates Fun🤔
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
December 01 2010 04:48 GMT
#3
Fairly nice summary. I would have to agree with most everything but commodities. Commodities are decent in the way of ETFs (mining firms especially) Although investing in gold itself is a bit suspect.
denzelz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States604 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-01 05:22:36
December 01 2010 05:14 GMT
#4
How much money would you say is a good start for investing? How can someone who just got out of college in his first job get started with accumulating wealth?

EDIT: Oh, I'm sorry, I just read the first post in the series and you do explain it well there. Thanks, I've been enjoying this series.
Crabby
Profile Joined August 2010
United States66 Posts
December 01 2010 12:58 GMT
#5
On December 01 2010 13:12 azndsh wrote:

Commodities
Generally speaking, I don't recommend investing in commodities for a pretty simple reason: they don't produce anything. Sure the price of gold might go up, but in the long run, it's just gold. Companies and economies can grow larger and produce more wealth, but gold just sits there. I suppose the coolest thing about these is that it has really made investing in gold/silver/oil/etc more accessible to the average person.

GLD, SLV - gold, silver, etc.


Is that your professor's opinion or your own? Perhaps this isn't you but people come out of their economics/finance classes starry eyed and voice the above argument as gold. I guess I detested when people would downplay commodities arguing no value added. Fact is, they don't but they do play a central role in pricing. Furthermore, commodities have allowed corporate farmers and companies hedge. Commodities may not produce something physically but act as an enzyme to pricing.
If she ain't 280, she ain't a lady
azndsh
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4447 Posts
December 01 2010 13:28 GMT
#6
how is that at all relevant to investing your savings? I never said the goal here was to price things accurately.
Glacierz
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1245 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-01 16:41:29
December 01 2010 15:57 GMT
#7
Happy to see a finance thread on TL! I think you should also add REITs and FX (not recommended for amateurs). REITs pays very nice dividends and could be a diversifier (although correlation to equity is pretty strong).

There are 2 key concepts in fixed income: credit quality and duration/maturity. The lower the credit quality, the higher the interest rate (as well as the risk for default). The longer the maturity/duration, the higher the sensitivity of the bond is to the change in interest rates. If you have a view that interest rates are going up, stay away from the long duration bonds.

In terms of credit quality, after treasury and TIPS comes Municipal bonds, these are issued by states/local govt, with slightly higher interest rates and very good for tax purposes (you can wiki it for more info). I am not a huge fan of Fixed Income nowadays because rates are so low, but you can go a little bit beyond corporate aggs in the credit spectrum into things such as High Yield, commonly associated with junk bonds with high default rates. These give you stock-like returns with stock-like risks.

I think applying a moderate amount of leverage to fixed income portion of the portfolio (assuming you have significant allocation to equity) can actually helps improve return without increasing risks too much.

It seems that OP works in finance, if you are going to continue with this series, the next step could diverge into more specific topics such as duration in fixed income, earnings/PE, etc., or portfolio theory: basic definitions of correlations, volatility, efficient frontiers, capital market lines, etc. Keep up with the good work!
Glacierz
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1245 Posts
December 01 2010 16:02 GMT
#8
I also agree with OP's thesis on commodities. Institutions use it more often as a hedge against inflation, it should never be a central part of the portfolio if you are seeking returns as a individual investor. You should not look at commodities as return generating assets, but more as demand/supply driven items, they are cyclical and can be extremely volatile to manage.
Crabby
Profile Joined August 2010
United States66 Posts
December 01 2010 19:49 GMT
#9
On December 01 2010 22:28 azndsh wrote:
how is that at all relevant to investing your savings? I never said the goal here was to price things accurately.


I recommend investing in commodities because of one simple reason, I can see where people are hedging and take advantage of an upcoming potential price swing.

See what I did there?
If she ain't 280, she ain't a lady
azndsh
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4447 Posts
December 01 2010 20:53 GMT
#10
On December 02 2010 04:49 Crabby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2010 22:28 azndsh wrote:
how is that at all relevant to investing your savings? I never said the goal here was to price things accurately.


I recommend investing in commodities because of one simple reason, I can see where people are hedging and take advantage of an upcoming potential price swing.

See what I did there?

well, I imagine this guide must be quite useless to you if you can predict the future.
azndsh
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4447 Posts
December 01 2010 20:55 GMT
#11
On December 02 2010 00:57 Glacierz wrote:
Happy to see a finance thread on TL! I think you should also add REITs and FX (not recommended for amateurs). REITs pays very nice dividends and could be a diversifier (although correlation to equity is pretty strong).

There are 2 key concepts in fixed income: credit quality and duration/maturity. The lower the credit quality, the higher the interest rate (as well as the risk for default). The longer the maturity/duration, the higher the sensitivity of the bond is to the change in interest rates. If you have a view that interest rates are going up, stay away from the long duration bonds.

In terms of credit quality, after treasury and TIPS comes Municipal bonds, these are issued by states/local govt, with slightly higher interest rates and very good for tax purposes (you can wiki it for more info). I am not a huge fan of Fixed Income nowadays because rates are so low, but you can go a little bit beyond corporate aggs in the credit spectrum into things such as High Yield, commonly associated with junk bonds with high default rates. These give you stock-like returns with stock-like risks.

I think applying a moderate amount of leverage to fixed income portion of the portfolio (assuming you have significant allocation to equity) can actually helps improve return without increasing risks too much.

It seems that OP works in finance, if you are going to continue with this series, the next step could diverge into more specific topics such as duration in fixed income, earnings/PE, etc., or portfolio theory: basic definitions of correlations, volatility, efficient frontiers, capital market lines, etc. Keep up with the good work!


Nah, this just about wraps it up. This is like a dummy's guide to investing money long-term without getting picked off. I think all the rest is either too academic or specific to really be useful to the majority of people out there.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 13h 54m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 440
Nathanias 39
Vindicta 18
Nina 17
EmSc Tv 15
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 12259
Shuttle 449
Dewaltoss 129
Shinee 42
Dota 2
PGG 186
Counter-Strike
apEX2703
gobbtv584
zeus366
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu560
Other Games
tarik_tv5092
Grubby3280
summit1g1300
FrodaN874
shahzam351
PiGStarcraft263
C9.Mang0219
Fuzer 213
edward174
syndereN147
ArmadaUGS136
XaKoH 66
NeuroSwarm62
KnowMe33
ZombieGrub26
JuggernautJason21
Railgan21
ViBE14
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV176
Counter-Strike
PGL121
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 15
EmSc2Tv 15
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 34
• Adnapsc2 16
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki38
• Michael_bg 7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV799
League of Legends
• Nemesis2399
• Jankos2160
Other Games
• imaqtpie823
• Shiphtur553
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
13h 54m
Reynor vs Solar
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs MaxPax
herO vs Rogue
IPSL
19h 54m
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
AI Arena Tournament
21h 54m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 13h
IPSL
1d 19h
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
YoungYakov vs Lambo
SHIN vs TBD
Percival vs Shameless
Solar vs TBD
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-05
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.