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Nothing, file a counter-complain.
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don't worry about it :p
god everyone has to be so politically correct these days.
also, it was a kid
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That's such bullshit. I'm not sure I completely agree with your philosophy of ultra-rigid political correctness, but what a ridiculous thing to be accused of. You better exact righteous vengeance on the person who filed a complaint.
How old are you, and how old are the kids you're instructing? I'm curious to see if the kids are old enough to logically vouch for either you or the mystery PC-cop in this situation.
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Wauw... I hate it when people pull their race card for something like this. I guess they don't know what racism really is.
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The kid is the racist thinking because of his superior skin tone he doesn't need sun-cream.
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But he is different. You were clearly being insensitive regarding his higher melanin levels that protect him from skin cancer. How dare you, who do you think you are?
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On November 21 2010 23:46 Flicky wrote:
which is unusual because not many black people live around my area because it's expensive.?
I have to say that wasn't the best word choice there, but what happened seems completely reasonable.
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On November 21 2010 23:54 underscore wrote:
The kid is the racist thinking because of his superior skin tone he doesn't need sun-cream.
Rofl.
I hate idiots who cry about racism or throw around the word without knowing what it means, they are just out to start a commotion cause they are retared :/
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On November 21 2010 23:56 floor exercise wrote:
But he is different. You were clearly being insensitive regarding his higher melanin levels that protect him from skin cancer. How dare you, who do you think you are?
I'm going to assume this isn't sarcasm, and respond by saying that resistance to UV rays does not equal immunity. No matter your complexion, you're still vulnerable to sunburns and other conditions. Why bother testing fate by hoping your genetics can protect you from the sun? If you're going to err, do so on the side of caution. It may not be an overly serious thing, but I'd rather not get a sunburn if I can avoid it.
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On November 21 2010 23:46 Flicky wrote:
which is unusual because not many black people live around my area because it's expensive?
Wait, what? You try so hard not to be racist yet you make a remark like that. ._.
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Don't know whether it's the way you wrote, but it really sounds like you are TRYING not to be racist.
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You're not being racist at all.
You're doing your job by making sure everyone had adequate UV protection.
Heck, you'd have been more racist if you had said that everyone *except* the black kid had to wear suntan lotion (only because you'd be specifically singling him out), and *refused* to let him put sunblock on.
You're fine; you did nothing wrong. They clearly don't understand what "racism" means. Either explain the situation to your bosses (to which they should 100% see no problem as well), or do that PLUS fire a counter-complaint back at the stupid black family (which may make you feel better but may be bad for public relations). I recommend just doing the first; you're always going to come across stupid people in your life. Try to let it go as long as your bosses understand that you did nothing wrong.
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On November 21 2010 23:46 Flicky wrote:
My boss was talking to me about a complain from August this year from one of my groups. I had a black student in my two day-session, which is unusual because not many black people live around my area because it's expensive...
Racist? No.
Stereo-typing? Yes.
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United States24600 Posts
On November 21 2010 23:46 Flicky wrote:
But when I got to the black kid and asked him why he doesn't think he needs sun-cream when everyone else does. I told him he wasn't any different and made him wear it.
If this is exactly the way it went down then you are creating headaches for yourself. Asking him why he doesn't think he needs it when everyone else does is going to open up a can of worms. Saying "you aren't any different" can be easily misconstrued.
A couple of alternatives would to say "everyone has to wear sun cream" and not question him about his reasoning (being fully aware that his parents probably don't make him wear much sun cream normally since he has darker skin). If he claims he isn't allowed/supposed to wear it then say you have to have all kids wear it unless you get permission from the parents not to. If the parents complain after this, they have no justification and your boss can easily back you.
You didn't do anything 'wrong' but being 'wrong' isn't what matters in these sorts of situations... it's whether or not you've learned through life/work experience the best way to avoid them.
I go through the exact same thing as a teacher when communicating with parents. I am very careful about what I say and how I say it because most things can and will be used against me, often out of context, etc. Don't give unnecessary information, ask unnecessary questions, etc, when dealing with a sensitive situation that could blow up into a racism complaint or something like that.
Is this completely ridiculous? Yes.
Should you have to deal with it at a recreational summer program? No.
Do you have to follow my advice? No, but I strongly recommend it.
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I don't think you're intentionally racist but it sounds like your raw lack of exposure makes it difficult for you to be completely comfortable despite your best efforts. I don't think I'm quite that bad but I do know how you feel because I grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood and now go to a predominantly white college.
You did absolutely nothing wrong imo though. I mean, I don't think black people generally get sunburned but there is no reason when they're under your charge you should exclude anyone from having proper protection.
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But when I got to the black kid and asked him why he doesn't think he needs sun-cream when everyone else does. I told him he wasn't any different and made him wear it.
This sentence doesn't read correctly. Did you hand him suncream and he refused to wear it, whereupon you told him he had to? Did you hand it out generally to the group and he just didn't put any on? It's hard to judge the context of what you said without the extra information of how he acted and the exact sequence of events.
It doesn't sound like you did anything wrong, but that really depends on those extra details that are missing. In any event it doesn't sound like you were being racist. As micronesia said though, there are always more tactful ways of handling situations.
Also, there's a spelling mistake in your thread title.
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i believe its the " i told him he wasn't any different" that lands you in trouble this time.
The kid assumed that you assumed that he thought he was different from the others because of his skin colour. It wasn't racism per se and it's stupid how politically correct you must be but that's how society is nowadays.
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That's silly of the guy who made the complaint; ott when your trying to help him.
FYI dark skin naturally blocks the harmful rays of the sun. Very dark(black) causes to little sun to be absorbed leading to lack of vitamin d and other things. Ofc the perfect colour is brown cause you get immunity to skin cancer while getting plenty of vitamin d.
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Germany2896 Posts
On November 22 2010 00:03 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2010 23:46 Flicky wrote:
which is unusual because not many black people live around my area because it's expensive? Wait, what? You try so hard not to be racist yet you make a remark like that. ._.
Sounds completely objective to me. Everything I read about the racial situation in the US indicated that black people are on average poorer than white people. So it'd hardly surprising if in a rich are black people are less common. It in no way implies that black people are inferior or any racist opinions like that. But if you have any statistical data that proves this statement wrong I'd love to see it.
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United States24600 Posts
On November 22 2010 00:51 MasterOfChaos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2010 00:03 StarStruck wrote:On November 21 2010 23:46 Flicky wrote:
which is unusual because not many black people live around my area because it's expensive? Wait, what? You try so hard not to be racist yet you make a remark like that. ._. Sounds completely objective to me. Everything I read about the racial situation in the US indicated that black people are on average poorer than white people. So it'd hardly surprising if in a rich are black people are less common. It in no way implies that black people are inferior or any racist opinions like that. But if you have any statistical data that proves this statement wrong I'd love to see it.
That's one of those things where being vague because you are technically correct is still politically incorrect. It's true that there is a socioeconomic disparity between each race in many countries, but that isn't necessarily implied in what Flicky said. It wasn't delicate. I get what he means and I don't mind, but I also realize that it can get him into trouble.
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On November 22 2010 00:03 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2010 23:46 Flicky wrote:
which is unusual because not many black people live around my area because it's expensive? Wait, what? You try so hard not to be racist yet you make a remark like that. ._.
Minorities in the UK are screwed trying to get to just be working class let alone middle class. At least he's black he hasn't got it half as bad as brown asians; trust me.
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im sick and tired of black people pulling the race card.... i dont have a problem with them at all but really how much of a asshole do you have to be to report a instructor that has been helping you because he told you to put sun block on....
it seems like everytime they dont get what they want its time for the pocket races.
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If you need to try in order not to be racist, then are you actually racist at heart? I see you have to remind yourself of your special training so you can keep pretending.
Sorry, I'm sure it's nothing like that in reality but the way you describe your relationship to racism makes it seem like it's something that's innate and that you need to suppress.
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I'm sure you're in no way racist...but something about your wording throws me off..
On November 21 2010 23:46 Flicky wrote:
I work as a Kayak instructor in the summer and I got a call from my boss today saying that I had a complaint filed against me for racism. It's a lazy job and my bosses (there are two) never bother going through complaint forms until the end of the year, unless of course someone goes crazy at them.
So all my life at school we were taught how not to be racist. Instead of teaching tolerance and what not, we were always taught to "treat everyone the same". So I've kept this in mind since I learnt it because I don't want to be racist.
My boss was talking to me about a complain from August this year from one of my groups. I had a black student in my two day-session, which is unusual because not many black people live around my area because it's expensive. There is maybe two people in my Village who are black. It wasn't the first time I've taught a black kid but this time I was worried about being racist because of a friend who got suspended for being racist from his job at KFC.
So I'm very careful about not being racist. I make sure I treat everyone the same, like I was taught. I gave all the kids the same wetsuits and gave everyone the same tuition and time. The issue came on day 2.
It was very sunny that day and as you may guess, there are many issues with hot sun and weather on an open body of water. So, we make sure they have hats and whatever. The issue was when we're handing out sun-cream. I was making sure to treat everyone the same so I made sure everyone had some on. But when I got to the black kid and asked him why he doesn't think he needs sun-cream when everyone else does. I told him he wasn't any different and made him wear it.
Now suddenly I'm racist.
WTF TL. What did I do wrong?
If you're genuinely not racist then you hardly need to try not to be racist. You're just not. "Trying" implies you're resisting some latent urge. I'll assume this is merely a matter of slightly odd wording though.
Either way, is it a policy where you work that they have to wear suncream? Otherwise I would have just offered it around and whoever wants it can have some and whoever doesn't, doesn't. Seems much easier.
On the whole though, I sympathize, it's a pretty harsh thing to be accused of just for trying to be nice handing out suncream.
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Black people have a much higher tolerance to sun than white people. He was right. The more pale you are the less sun you need. This is simple fact. Ask any health practitioner.
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black man keeping the white man down even in his homeland.... its worse in America believe me.
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First of all, everyone is racist, whether or not you'd like to admit it. It's just a part of group identity, a fundamental property of human nature.
For OP's case, if any fingers were to be pointed at who's racist, I'd say it's the black kid for thinking the White Man is out to get them when it was actually well intention. Black people (or any other visible minority group) pulling the race card is a form of reverse discrimination.
Slightly off topic, but as a visible minority myself, I actually quite dislike affirmative action and other preferential treatment of minorities. I would feel uncomfortable or even inferior if I got a job that hired me only because they needed to meet some minority quota.
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As a Ph.D. in genetics and someone who understands cancer, I can tell you that ANYONE can get skin cancer, the complaint is ignorant.
Read this post by a doctor:
"Routinely, I find that patients with darker skin feel a false sense of security with regards to the sun. While it may be true that someone who has a Mediterranean background and has an olive complexion may "tan" when exposed to the sun, that doesn't mean they are not going to develop skin cancer and/or wrinkles down the road. The same is true for my African American and Hispanic patients. And, while "normal" amounts of sunlight here in the U.S. may not cause a sun burn, I can't tell you how many patients have called me upon their return from the tropics because they're puzzled as to the cause of their skin condition and are often surprised to hear the diagnosis."
Here is the link, you can probably find many like it and prove your case.
http://www.dermadoctor.com/article_Sunburn-Prevention-and-Treatment_157.html
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Depends on what you said, exactly.
"I don't care what color your skin is. If you're kayaking under my supervision/instruction then you'll wear sunblock today." would have been perfectly appropriate, if a bit tyrannical. But if you're entrusted with the safety and well-being of your students, then it's okay to not be a pushover.
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Korea (South)1897 Posts
By singling him out, it would have made him feel you were picking on him, regardless of what you were talking about, also the tone and the approach could have been construed as putting him in his place that he didn't warrant any special attention regardless if he had a reasonable response or not, BUT then again, if just said, yeah sure no worries, its cool don't put on the sun screen, then he might have thought afterwards, 'wtf man, this guy doesn't give a crap if I burn or not' so, in this type of sensitive cultural situation, it can go either way. But a lot of black guys get challenged all the time for things that white people (aka the majority) take for granted, its call 'White Privilege' you should look it up if you feel so inclined, but it could have been that reaction that he felt he was being reasonable and you weren't, thus you were racist!
I wouldn't think to much about it, but since you're English, you probably did sound like a patronizing ass. LOL just kidding! ^^ Don't worry about it, life is about experience and exposure, at least you have something to reflect on. Don't worry nearly every foreigner who comes to Korea remarks that we are the most racist people in the world until they get to know our women and soju!
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people tend to misconstrue stereotypes as racism all the time. it's really frustrating. even in this very thread. like his remark about his rich area having less black people living in it is not racist in any way. it's a stereotype based around surveys (or common knowledge) that indicate on average black people are poorer than white people in the US. it's as harmless as pointing out black people have darker skin. we all stereotype. all the time. based on age, sex, race, you name it.
it's never been an issue before... it's when these PC idiots get into the fray and starting calling these statements racism that we run into a problem. last i checked, you're not implying superiority by stereotyping
grrrrr
@lutarez, no. not everybody is racist. everybody does stereotype though. it's simply impossible to live otherwise.. treating everything as if its totally unique from prior experiences will make your brain explode.
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United States24600 Posts
On November 22 2010 00:58 Audigy wrote:
im sick and tired of black people pulling the race card.... i dont have a problem with them at all but really how much of a asshole do you have to be to report a instructor that has been helping you because he told you to put sun block on....
If this was the entirety of your post I wouldn't have said anything.
it seems like everytime they dont get what they want its time for the pocket races.
No? That's incredibly rude and insensitive. Are you attached to those words or would you agree with "It bothers me greatly when black people choose to unnecessarily play the race card"? I don't think you should lump all black people together since a large % of them would be mortified to get associated with the behavior of this black child's parents.
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You should have told him to enjoy his pending sun burn. If he said "black people don't get sunburn," you could have just laughed in his face about his lack of education oh wait-
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JeeJee, do you happen to know the only valid definition of racism? Because racial stereotyping and racism is virtually the same animal. You shouldn't mindlessly go by the wikipedia definition of racism and imply that it always revolved around believing in superiority of one race compared to another. Racism is also a belief that race determines many human traits and abilities, which accounts for racial stereotyping in your context.
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On November 22 2010 02:24 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2010 00:58 Audigy wrote:
im sick and tired of black people pulling the race card.... i dont have a problem with them at all but really how much of a asshole do you have to be to report a instructor that has been helping you because he told you to put sun block on....
If this was the entirety of your post I wouldn't have said anything. Show nested quote +it seems like everytime they dont get what they want its time for the pocket races. No? That's incredibly rude and insensitive. Are you attached to those words or would you agree with "It bothers me greatly when black people choose to unnecessarily play the race card"? I don't think you should lump all black people together since a large % of them would be mortified to get associated with the behavior of this black child's parents.
true i worded it badly but it just frustrates me that 98% of the time i see anything about racism, its a black man/women complaining...
i can see them complaining if it is really a problem and they should, but come on...some of the stuff you see them using as an excuse is just ridiculous, like what happened to the OP.
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In this case you treated everybody exactly the same, it wasn't racism. Did you explain the situation to your boss?
I actually got put in a similar situation when I was in charge of drumline. A new girl, Corey, joined and refused to practice because I put her on cymbals and not on snare drum. She couldn't hold drumsticks properly (refused to use traditional grip because it was "dumb as hell") and had a terrible sense of rhythm.
During practice she'd just text, roll her eyes, etc. I told her to go back to the band room and to not bother coming out to practice with us unless she was going to participate. She later complained to the band director that I was only mean to her because she was black. The next semester, go figure, I was taken off the captain position for being "too harsh and divisive". I wasn't happy about it, but what can you do.
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dude, you're fine.
On November 22 2010 00:16 A3iL3r0n wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2010 23:46 Flicky wrote:
My boss was talking to me about a complain from August this year from one of my groups. I had a black student in my two day-session, which is unusual because not many black people live around my area because it's expensive...
Racist? No. Stereo-typing? Yes.
wtf, he was stating a fact about race related to the socioeconomic status of his area. how the hell is that "stereotyping"? -_-
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You're racist BECAUSE you try really hard not to be. That's okay everyone is a little bit racist. Okay, the sunscreen deal, that's something minorities kids/teens do a lot when they feel singled out or if they're trying to get out of something/get someone in trouble. It's an easy scapegoat for them and works enough times that its a viable strategy.
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that isn't racist at all, and the idea that black people can't get sunburned is a myth they absolutely can they're just a little more resistant to it. it was a good idea for him to wear sunscreen idk what the problem is.
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Did this really go down the way you describe it? sounds to me you are just telling your own version of the story, do accusations of racism really come this easily?
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Alright first of all, in this situation you weren't being racist. At all. Now, when you say stuff like its an expensive village so not many black people live there it's getting to be kind of racist, maybe racial stereotyping, but TBH I find it true as well. You can attribute that to a million different social factors and whatnot but let's not bother.
So this situation you weren't being racist, but your diction and the way you phrase your sentences makes it seem as if you're trying way too hard to not be racist. I mean isn't the idea of equality to treat everyone the same, without prejudice? You seem to have to make a conscious effort to not be racist, and you have to watch your words more carefully around black people, which I find pretty odd. It's kind of the spirit of the law vs the letter of the law concept. You're making every attempt to be politically correct but the fact that you have to think and try so hard about this points to you having, perhaps subconsciously, racist tendencies (or just being an awkward person?).
On November 22 2010 03:23 nttea wrote:
Did this really go down the way you describe it? sounds to me you are just telling your own version of the story, do accusations of racism really come this easily?
This too. Surely your conversation wasn't a 1 liner. Maybe during the argument you dwelled at length on the fact that he was black?
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Why do you even think about treating everyone the same? Just be yourself and there shouldn't be any problems with it, it comes naturally when ur doing work. Assuming you really aren't racist.
But tbh, that complaint is ridiculous and you shouldn't really take that on yourself, as long as there isn't any actions because of it (only a conversation about it), i'd leave it to that. You didn't do anything wrong and i doubt it will affect your work in the future.
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On November 22 2010 02:37 News wrote:
JeeJee, do you happen to know the only valid definition of racism? Because racial stereotyping and racism is virtually the same animal. You shouldn't mindlessly go by the wikipedia definition of racism and imply that it always revolved around believing in superiority of one race compared to another. Racism is also a belief that race determines many human traits and abilities, which accounts for racial stereotyping in your context.
yeah, you would be one of the pc people i've mentioned in my post. i do happen to know a valid definition of racism, and i've stated it in my post. it's the belief that one race is superior to another because of nothing except race.
to say that human race doesn't determine human traits is being ignorant. are you going to tell me that, for example, black people on average don't have higher melanin levels in their skin than white people? let's not be silly 
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If you ask everyone before giving sun cream instead of defaultly give everyone sun cream, and ask the afro-english boy as well, you're good. And don't ask why. But still, it's nothing undefendable. You still did the right thing.
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ahhh...
strong undercurrents of racism/stereotyping all over the OP's post.
seems he is trying very hard to contain it.
underscore November 21 2010 23:54
The kid is the racist thinking because of his superior skin tone he doesn't need sun-cream.
GOLD!!! YOUR THE BEST MAN! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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On November 22 2010 03:42 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2010 02:37 News wrote:
JeeJee, do you happen to know the only valid definition of racism? Because racial stereotyping and racism is virtually the same animal. You shouldn't mindlessly go by the wikipedia definition of racism and imply that it always revolved around believing in superiority of one race compared to another. Racism is also a belief that race determines many human traits and abilities, which accounts for racial stereotyping in your context. yeah, you would be one of the pc people i've mentioned in my post. i do happen to know a valid definition of racism, and i've stated it in my post. it's the belief that one race is superior to another because of nothing except race. to say that human race doesn't determine human traits is being ignorant. are you going to tell me that, for example, black people on average don't have higher melanin levels in their skin than white people? let's not be silly
"Pc people" as in "personal computer"? You are really naive to say that, in fact "pc people" would go by your definition of racism 100% of time. I grew up in the country where skinheads walk around in daylight with swastikas on their shirts, where teachers at school mock kids for being "dark" or "jewish" or w/e else, where whites are racist against other whites because they aren't white enough. So don't jump to conclusions just because you guessed something, you are making yourself look dumb. I spent a lot of time dealing with those people, reading their newspapers and debating. "I do happen to know a valid definition of racism," - no you don't, you don't know shit if you base the concept of racism solely on racial superiority. Black racists will not try to argue they had the greatest painters or sculptors, they will argue nobody feels the rhythm and the music the way they do. This is just a simple example for you to digest, because you don't seem to be doing well with more complex definitions.
Some of the racial traits would be considered superior, while some - lacking. "One race is superior to another because of nothing except race," - utterly stupid, no racist will keep arguing just because he believes that "black is better" or "white is better", they will find a reason to say that based on whatever differences they can observe/come up with. These differences are "racial traits and capacities", these are the basis for racial stereotyping as well. If you can only come up with melanin, curly hair or long noses - just don't waste your own time, rather educate yourself properly before starting an argument.
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I thought every person needs sun cream regardless of color of skin O_O
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On November 22 2010 04:26 News wrote:
I grew up in the country where skinheads walk around in daylight with swastikas on their shirts, where teachers at school mock kids for being "dark" or "jewish" or w/e else, where whites are racist against other whites because they aren't white enough.
^ And where might that be i wonder?
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I actually thought you were just trolling for laughs when you said your friend got fired from KFC ... but ill take you serious, so no i don't think you are racist but the kid sounds like a punk who just wants to be annoying, you should have just told him to wear it and not added the part about being different and i think nothing would have happened, but i do think the kid has no merits to his complaints at all unless more was said.
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i find that people pull out the race card too much.stuff like racial remarks and obvious racism is reportable, but shit like this is an example of people being too caught up.
apparently singling a kid out because he was too ignorant to wear sunscreen is racist
the problem imo is that some people think that everyone is still treating them like a minority, and that's why they pull out the race card. it isn't the 50's for god sakes, you're equal to everyone else. stop acting like every single thing we do is racist.
this is coming from an asian perspective, i really don't care if you make comments like i eat fried rice a lot or i'm talented at math. people need to put less emphasis on the past and care more about the present. keep in mind that real racism still occurs and this post doesn't apply to that
if people think i smoke opium everyday they're either joking or a retard. idc if they're the latter and i'll laugh if they're joking
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OP, regardless of your personal feelings, you did nothing wrong. In an instructional setting where you are responsible for children, you have the right to require ALL of them to wear sunscreen for their own protection. The kid was ignorant about the fact that he can still get sunburns and skin cancer.
Also, @News, race DOES determine many human traits and abilities. Biologically. Society may claim differently because people are unwilling to hear the truth right now, but that doesn't make your argument any more true from a scientific standpoint. Some day we will learn to celebrate the unique advantages that people of different racial backgrounds have, but for now we (in America) are stuck claiming that every race is exactly the same, as society's rebound reaction to slavery.
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On November 22 2010 00:18 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2010 23:46 Flicky wrote:
But when I got to the black kid and asked him why he doesn't think he needs sun-cream when everyone else does. I told him he wasn't any different and made him wear it. If this is exactly the way it went down then you are creating headaches for yourself. Asking him why he doesn't think he needs it when everyone else does is going to open up a can of worms. Saying "you aren't any different" can be easily misconstrued. A couple of alternatives would to say "everyone has to wear sun cream" and not question him about his reasoning (being fully aware that his parents probably don't make him wear much sun cream normally since he has darker skin). If he claims he isn't allowed/supposed to wear it then say you have to have all kids wear it unless you get permission from the parents not to. If the parents complain after this, they have no justification and your boss can easily back you. You didn't do anything 'wrong' but being 'wrong' isn't what matters in these sorts of situations... it's whether or not you've learned through life/work experience the best way to avoid them. I go through the exact same thing as a teacher when communicating with parents. I am very careful about what I say and how I say it because most things can and will be used against me, often out of context, etc. Don't give unnecessary information, ask unnecessary questions, etc, when dealing with a sensitive situation that could blow up into a racism complaint or something like that. Is this completely ridiculous? Yes. Should you have to deal with it at a recreational summer program? No. Do you have to follow my advice? No, but I strongly recommend it.
It's kind of annoying how you actually have to find ways to save your own ass because some people love pulling the "racist" card. Like micronesia said, saying certain things can be easily misconstrued by people -_-. His advice is good and I second what he said ^_^. But yeah OP you did nothing wrong, it's just things today that are so wrong.
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On November 22 2010 04:35 Thrill wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2010 04:26 News wrote:
I grew up in the country where skinheads walk around in daylight with swastikas on their shirts, where teachers at school mock kids for being "dark" or "jewish" or w/e else, where whites are racist against other whites because they aren't white enough. ^ And where might that be i wonder?
Let's just say former USSR, Russia would be a great example too.
On November 22 2010 04:41 Uranium wrote:
Also, @News, race DOES determine many human traits and abilities. Biologically. Society may claim differently because people are unwilling to hear the truth right now, but that doesn't make your argument any more true from a scientific standpoint. Some day we will learn to celebrate the unique advantages that people of different racial backgrounds have, but for now we (in America) are stuck claiming that every race is exactly the same, as society's rebound reaction to slavery.
I didn't say it doesn't. I actually studied enough anthropology at my Uni to know that for a fact. Some of the materials published in former Soviet anthropology journals would be considered outrageous by a contemporary society.
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Whether you are racist or not for having to "try" to not be racist is irrelevant to the matter at hand; what you said to the kid should have not sparked any kind of racist gesture. I don't want to say you could have said your thoughts in a "less racist" way by any means, but some different wording probably could have warded off the complaint regardless.
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On November 22 2010 04:26 News wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2010 03:42 JeeJee wrote:On November 22 2010 02:37 News wrote:
JeeJee, do you happen to know the only valid definition of racism? Because racial stereotyping and racism is virtually the same animal. You shouldn't mindlessly go by the wikipedia definition of racism and imply that it always revolved around believing in superiority of one race compared to another. Racism is also a belief that race determines many human traits and abilities, which accounts for racial stereotyping in your context. yeah, you would be one of the pc people i've mentioned in my post. i do happen to know a valid definition of racism, and i've stated it in my post. it's the belief that one race is superior to another because of nothing except race. to say that human race doesn't determine human traits is being ignorant. are you going to tell me that, for example, black people on average don't have higher melanin levels in their skin than white people? let's not be silly "Pc people" as in "personal computer"? You are really naive to say that, in fact "pc people" would go by your definition of racism 100% of time. I grew up in the country where skinheads walk around in daylight with swastikas on their shirts, where teachers at school mock kids for being "dark" or "jewish" or w/e else, where whites are racist against other whites because they aren't white enough. So don't jump to conclusions just because you guessed something, you are making yourself look dumb. I spent a lot of time dealing with those people, reading their newspapers and debating. "I do happen to know a valid definition of racism," - no you don't, you don't know shit if you base the concept of racism solely on racial superiority. Black racists will not try to argue they had the greatest painters or sculptors, they will argue nobody feels the rhythm and the music the way they do. This is just a simple example for you to digest, because you don't seem to be doing well with more complex definitions. Some of the racial traits would be considered superior, while some - lacking. "One race is superior to another because of nothing except race," - utterly stupid, no racist will keep arguing just because he believes that "black is better" or "white is better", they will find a reason to say that based on whatever differences they can observe/come up with. These differences are "racial traits and capacities", these are the basis for racial stereotyping as well. If you can only come up with melanin, curly hair or long noses - just don't waste your own time, rather educate yourself properly before starting an argument.
strange, i've lived in russia for over 10 years and never encountered anything like you describe.
either way you're currently being way too defensive to have a level-headed argument, the examples you brought up don't even make sense. arguing that black people are superior in feeling rhythm and music solely because they're black is no different at all. i get the feeling you don't understand what the word superior means.
i get that it's a touchy subject for you, so feel free to have the last word on this.
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It's perfectly fine to stereotype, as long as you can make exceptions for the different people you encounter within that stereotype. In other words, as long as you don't try to fit people into your stereotype and can mentally adjust, there's nothing wrong with stereotyping.
In fact, I would be surprised if someone said they didn't stereotype.
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On November 22 2010 06:04 JeeJee wrote:
strange, i've lived in russia for over 10 years and never encountered anything like you describe.
either way you're currently being way too defensive to have a level-headed argument, the examples you brought up don't even make sense. arguing that black people are superior in feeling rhythm and music solely because they're black is no different at all. i get the feeling you don't understand what the word superior means.
i get that it's a touchy subject for you, so feel free to have the last word on this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_post-Soviet_Russia
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It's extremely difficult to not get people to pull the race card against you. The reason is because the race card is like a "golden ticket". There are tons of black people are down to earth and nice guys that don't use their color as a means to advance themselves, but like any group of people, there are always those that take the stick and run with it. You happened to encounter one of these people.
Here are some tips to not be perceived as a racist (much of this has nothing to do with racism, but that doesn't matter, it's all about what they think, not what is reality).
NEVER address anyone as "black" never mention anything about "black" you said in your post that there aren't many blacks in your town because it is expensive, this may be true, but that doesn't matter, never mention it EVER. If that kid read your post he would have more ammo to throw at you.
-NEVER say anything along the lines that singles them out (this applies to "you are no different than anyone else") If you are going to talk to one of these types of people (or there is a possibility he/she is one) Never say anything that you wouldn't be able to say to any other person in succession. Instead of "you are no different" say "it is a requirement that everyone puts on sun block" do not add "regardless of color" or anything like that, keep it general.
-It is OK to say things like "he can run faster" "jump higher" or something like that, anything complimentary is ok even if it has to do with their race. I've never been in a situation like this, but I've talked to several people who have and it has worked wonders.
Finally- do not stare at them for too long, this also sets off a red flag (it's happened to me at least a dozen times, not sure what it is).
Also, never make a post like the one I just wrote, it would probably seem very racist to someone out there.
Usually you will find out pretty quickly if the person you are talking to is a jackass or a nice guy, once you cross that you can ease up a little bit.
As much as I wish this was not the state of things, this is how it is in the United States, while 99% of black people I meet are pretty funny and great guys to hang out with, there is always a small fraction that are like the guy you encountered. Also, only worry about following these rules on the job, once you are done for the day it's ok to ignore being politically correct (being politically correct is one of the most annoying things ever). So out in public, I don't give a @#$% about what color you are, I don't care if you get offended by what I say, I don't care if anyone pulls the race card, because they aren't going to get anything out of it.
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On November 22 2010 08:45 phant wrote:
advice
I don't think it was the kid who filed a complaint. The OP didn't specify who did; in fact, the OP didn't give out all that much information in the first place. Your advice is sound (if rather overly-PC for my liking, but I'm not judging), and you certainly know what you're talking about, but I think we need some more info from the OP to really know what's going on.
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You had to be taught in school to treat everybody the same? Someone really had to teach you that?
Honestly, certain sentences in your posts definitely tells me you're a racist trying way too hard not to come off as one. If you aren't one, great. Just stop trying too hard because if you aren't a racist you won't be making racist remarks anyway and it won't come off as if you're deliberately trying to hold something back. It won't sound "forced."
And while the tone of your voice or a certain look won't hold up on court, it can certainly be interpreted as racism by certain over sensitive people who love to pull the race card and sooner or later you meet a person like that.
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There are cases of black people getting skin cancer. Especially on the lighter parts of their skin. Bob Marley died from skin cancer IIRC
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On November 21 2010 23:54 underscore wrote:
The kid is the racist thinking because of his superior skin tone he doesn't need sun-cream.
if the story is true, this is the problem
he might have said something more than hes saying now in the OP
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The first half was funny in a racist not seriously racist sort of way, with your rich community and your friend being fired at a KFC for racism (lawl). Your reaction seems reasonable, it's just idiot people complaining about whatever they can. I'm still against calling black people african american, they are like 10 generations removed, they arent african anymore, just american and black, icall myself white does it matter? no. Do they call black people in Europe African Europeans ? I dont think they do :/
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To be honest, OP sounds like some robot designed to be a douche. "I was taught to treat everyone the same so that's what I did treat everyone the same."
How about some common sense? Black kids not needing as much sun screen as white kids is not racist, it's (supposedly) a fact.
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Maybe it wasn't racist but pointless to force him have it regardless. It's like forcing everyone have same sized life jackets or something, obviously if you weigh less you can get away with a lighter one. And if your skin is well resistant to sun you might not need sunlotion.
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Here's some more articles in support of the OP:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5219752.stm
"Although the disease is less common, when it does occur it is typically more aggressive and diagnosed later, which leads to more deaths..."
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001442.htm
"Skin cancer can develop in anyone, not only people with these risk factors. Young, healthy people -- even those with with dark skin, hair, and eyes -- can develop skin cancer."
On November 22 2010 13:55 JohannesH wrote:
Maybe it wasn't racist but pointless to force him have it regardless. It's like forcing everyone have same sized life jackets or something, obviously if you weigh less you can get away with a lighter one. And if your skin is well resistant to sun you might not need sunlotion.
I don't understand your analogy at all... you're saying that forcing a light person to wear a life jacket that would make them more buoyant than they would need to be is somehow a bad thing?
And it wasn't pointless. He's teaching that kid that he needs to wear sunscreen, even if he is dark skinned. Just because you can "get away with it" 99% of the time, doesn't mean you shouldn't still take preventative measures for that 1%. Especially if its something as simple as putting sunscreen on.
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lol the op had to throw in that line, this has to be a troll.
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before i start on the events that happened in your post, i must say. You sir, are clearly a racist and racism beams from your post. You say that not alot of blacks live in your neighborhood because its expensive and that you were suprised to see an african? why do you assume that black people cant afford to live in expensive neighborhoods? but, ignoring that for a minute,
what you did was really insensitive to black people. for white people to not be considered racist, they NOT ONLY need to know black history, black heritage, black accomplishments, black achievements, black physiology( the particular area you failed in), black culture, and black lifestyle. Not only do you have to know them, but you have to apply them to your life.
Let me explain to you why what you did was racist.
African people have more melatonin in the skin, which blocks sunlight and UV rays. Black people need up to 4x the amount of sunlight in the North American hemisphere than white people do to have the body produce the same amount of vitamin D , a crucial vitamin for reducing your chances of cancer.. In Africa, the sun is stronger and the africans get plenty of vitamin D but in NA, the sun is weaker so it takes more sun exposure. By forcing him to wear sunscreen you were being ignorant to black people and just sort of forgetting that your people enslaved our people for hundreds of years and stunted our collective development. Thats the problem with the average white person is that they dont take these things into consideration, and they are in denial about their racism.
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On November 27 2010 15:27 zergplayerr wrote:
before i start on the events that happened in your post, i must say. You sir, are clearly a racist and racism beams from your post. You say that not alot of blacks live in your neighborhood because its expensive and that you were suprised to see an african? why do you assume that black people cant afford to live in expensive neighborhoods? but, ignoring that for a minute,
what you did was really insensitive to black people. for white people to not be considered racist, they NOT ONLY need to know black history, black heritage, black accomplishments, black achievements, black physiology( the particular area you failed in), black culture, and black lifestyle. Not only do you have to know them, but you have to apply them to your life.
Let me explain to you why what you did was racist.
African people have more melatonin in the skin, which blocks sunlight and UV rays. Black people need up to 4x the amount of sunlight in the North American hemisphere than white people do to have the body produce the same amount of vitamin D , a crucial vitamin for reducing your chances of cancer.. In Africa, the sun is stronger and the africans get plenty of vitamin D but in NA, the sun is weaker so it takes more sun exposure. By forcing him to wear sunscreen you were being ignorant to black people and just sort of forgetting that your people enslaved our people for hundreds of years and stunted our collective development. Thats the problem with the average white person is that they dont take these things into consideration, and they are in denial about their racism.
LOLOLOLOLOL! This whole post was hilarious.
I hope you're not serious. Hahaha. But seriously, that was hilarious. xD
This just seems like a conglomeration of facetious statements instead of an actual argument. lol.
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On November 27 2010 15:27 zergplayerr wrote:
before i start on the events that happened in your post, i must say. You sir, are clearly a racist and racism beams from your post. You say that not alot of blacks live in your neighborhood because its expensive and that you were suprised to see an african? why do you assume that black people cant afford to live in expensive neighborhoods? but, ignoring that for a minute,
what you did was really insensitive to black people. for white people to not be considered racist, they NOT ONLY need to know black history, black heritage, black accomplishments, black achievements, black physiology( the particular area you failed in), black culture, and black lifestyle. Not only do you have to know them, but you have to apply them to your life.
Let me explain to you why what you did was racist.
African people have more melatonin in the skin, which blocks sunlight and UV rays. Black people need up to 4x the amount of sunlight in the North American hemisphere than white people do to have the body produce the same amount of vitamin D , a crucial vitamin for reducing your chances of cancer.. In Africa, the sun is stronger and the africans get plenty of vitamin D but in NA, the sun is weaker so it takes more sun exposure. By forcing him to wear sunscreen you were being ignorant to black people and just sort of forgetting that your people enslaved our people for hundreds of years and stunted our collective development. Thats the problem with the average white person is that they dont take these things into consideration, and they are in denial about their racism.
I'll be sure to remind africans to not sit in the shade in a hot summer day so they get their necessary vitamin D. I wouldn't want them to get cancer.
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"I was taught to treat everyone the same so that's what I did treat everyone the same."
How about some common sense? Black kids not needing as much sun screen as white kids is not racist, it's (supposedly) a fact. Hence, the 'I was taught', if he didn't say anything about it with the black kid (am I allowed to say it that way on an American server?); he would be giving him other instructions than the other kids, who probably wouldn't want to wear that sticky stuff as well, based on his color; A.K.A. racist.
You say that not alot of blacks live in your neighborhood because its expensive and that you were suprised to see an african? why do you assume that black people cant afford to live in expensive neighborhoods? That's, as already said on the first page: stereotyping, not racist. It could've been: We don't have a lot of white trash rednecks living around here because it's expensive.
Oh, and zergplayerr; you're racist as well; you're dividing by color (melatonine), maybe without judgment, but nonetheless you're still treating them differently. Hence: racist.
According to the Oxford English Dictionary, racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race In other words; everyone who uttered the word melatonine, said something about skin and sunreflection is racist.
You might not be judging, but fact is; whites, asians and blacks have a different skintone. That's not a bad thing, it's something different.
I'm so tired by people pulling the race card; I certainly hope they're all bisexual; because otherwise they're all sexist.
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Well, at least you know what to do next time. Hide the sunscreen bottle, and deal with a complaint of angry sunburnt people instead.
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which is unusual because not many black people live around my area because it's expensive.
Maybe because you're saying stuff like that?
But in all seriousness, I think that kid was just a douche and uses racism as his own way of being discriminating towards other races.
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On November 27 2010 16:44 ghrur wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2010 15:27 zergplayerr wrote:
before i start on the events that happened in your post, i must say. You sir, are clearly a racist and racism beams from your post. You say that not alot of blacks live in your neighborhood because its expensive and that you were suprised to see an african? why do you assume that black people cant afford to live in expensive neighborhoods? but, ignoring that for a minute,
what you did was really insensitive to black people. for white people to not be considered racist, they NOT ONLY need to know black history, black heritage, black accomplishments, black achievements, black physiology( the particular area you failed in), black culture, and black lifestyle. Not only do you have to know them, but you have to apply them to your life.
Let me explain to you why what you did was racist.
African people have more melatonin in the skin, which blocks sunlight and UV rays. Black people need up to 4x the amount of sunlight in the North American hemisphere than white people do to have the body produce the same amount of vitamin D , a crucial vitamin for reducing your chances of cancer.. In Africa, the sun is stronger and the africans get plenty of vitamin D but in NA, the sun is weaker so it takes more sun exposure. By forcing him to wear sunscreen you were being ignorant to black people and just sort of forgetting that your people enslaved our people for hundreds of years and stunted our collective development. Thats the problem with the average white person is that they dont take these things into consideration, and they are in denial about their racism. LOLOLOLOLOL! This whole post was hilarious. I hope you're not serious. Hahaha. But seriously, that was hilarious. xD This just seems like a conglomeration of facetious statements instead of an actual argument. lol.
No im dead serious, crackers always want to laugh and pretend racism doesnt exist. Do you think your ancestors were being "facetious" when they enslaved millions of africans?
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On November 27 2010 18:49 venomium wrote:Show nested quote +"I was taught to treat everyone the same so that's what I did treat everyone the same."
How about some common sense? Black kids not needing as much sun screen as white kids is not racist, it's (supposedly) a fact. Hence, the 'I was taught', if he didn't say anything about it with the black kid (am I allowed to say it that way on an American server?); he would be giving him other instructions than the other kids, who probably wouldn't want to wear that sticky stuff as well, based on his color; A.K.A. racist. Show nested quote +You say that not alot of blacks live in your neighborhood because its expensive and that you were suprised to see an african? why do you assume that black people cant afford to live in expensive neighborhoods? That's, as already said on the first page: stereotyping, not racist. It could've been: We don't have a lot of white trash rednecks living around here because it's expensive. Oh, and zergplayerr; you're racist as well; you're dividing by color (melatonine), maybe without judgment, but nonetheless you're still treating them differently. Hence: racist. Show nested quote +According to the Oxford English Dictionary, racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race In other words; everyone who uttered the word melatonine, said something about skin and sunreflection is racist. You might not be judging, but fact is; whites, asians and blacks have a different skintone. That's not a bad thing, it's something different. I'm so tired by people pulling the race card; I certainly hope they're all bisexual; because otherwise they're all sexist.
haha, another nazi from europe. Africans cant be racist, only europeans, who are colonialist and imperialist in nature, can be racist
Racism = power + prejudice
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On November 27 2010 15:27 zergplayerr wrote:
what you did was really insensitive to black people. for white people to not be considered racist, they NOT ONLY need to know black history, black heritage, black accomplishments, black achievements, black physiology( the particular area you failed in), black culture, and black lifestyle. Not only do you have to know them, but you have to apply them to your life.
I doubt this English muffin or any of his relatives enslaved anyone, I don't see why he needs to redeem himself by studying all of that. In fact I find this rather useless, no more important than any other exercise for your memory.
On November 28 2010 04:06 zergplayerr wrote:
No im dead serious, crackers always want to laugh and pretend racism doesnt exist. Do you think your ancestors were being "facetious" when they enslaved millions of africans?
Even if my grandfather did in fact enslave your grandfather I wouldn't feel any different about it than I do now. If you look at things in perspective even after all these years it's still not clear whether bringing "civilization" to Africa was evil or advantageous.
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On November 28 2010 04:16 News wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2010 15:27 zergplayerr wrote:
what you did was really insensitive to black people. for white people to not be considered racist, they NOT ONLY need to know black history, black heritage, black accomplishments, black achievements, black physiology( the particular area you failed in), black culture, and black lifestyle. Not only do you have to know them, but you have to apply them to your life.
I doubt this English muffin or any of his relatives enslaved anyone, I don't see why he needs to redeem himself by studying all of that. In fact I find this rather useless, no more important than any other exercise for your memory. Show nested quote +On November 28 2010 04:06 zergplayerr wrote:
No im dead serious, crackers always want to laugh and pretend racism doesnt exist. Do you think your ancestors were being "facetious" when they enslaved millions of africans? Even if my grandfather did in fact enslave your grandfather I wouldn't feel any different about it than I do now. If you look at things in perspective even after all these years it's still not clear whether bringing "civilization" to Africa was evil or advantageous.
Damn are you for real? That is maybe the most racist thing ive read on this whole post. when the white man came to africa, he brought disease and death with him. the white man pillaged the african continent and took out millions of africans for his own profit. the reason why africa is in such bad shape today is because imperialist european racists came over and ruined the continent. Believe me, we wish europeans would have stayed in there little continent. This thread is crawling with racism
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On November 28 2010 04:09 zergplayerr wrote:
haha, another nazi from europe. Africans cant be racist, only europeans, who are colonialist and imperialist in nature, can be racist
Racism = power + prejudice
Of course everyone can be racist, power has nothing to do with it either. You can derive your own formulas to support your delusions but they are just as worthless as your stone age vendetta. While some people are continuously whining about racism and hardships they face others shoot for the stars and become relevant and successful. Choose your own destiny.
On November 28 2010 04:20 zergplayerr wrote:
Damn are you for real? That is maybe the most racist thing ive read on this whole post. when the white man came to africa, he brought disease and death with him. the white man pillaged the african continent and took out millions of africans for his own profit. the reason why africa is in such bad shape today is because imperialist european racists came over and ruined the continent. Believe me, we wish europeans would have stayed in there little continent. This thread is crawling with racism
Africa is in a better shape today than it ever was, I think you should go there and see for yourself. You can definitely point your finger at Sierra Leone or Liberia but it's not like they weren't eating human flesh and defecating in the streets before "white man" pillaged everything.
You can blame "white man" for the deseases, you can also blame them for AIDS (oh wait), you might also want to blame Asians for bird flu and chicken pox and something else. You can blame a lot of things but you can also blame your own lazy ass for wasting time complaining about it. Nothing stops you from becoming great, the obstacles you face these days are literally nothing. Any Polish immigrant was worse off coming to the US than you are now. Deal with it.
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wow, this news guy is openly racist. But i agree with zergplayerr, OP is racist
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On November 22 2010 04:41 Uranium wrote:
OP, regardless of your personal feelings, you did nothing wrong. In an instructional setting where you are responsible for children, you have the right to require ALL of them to wear sunscreen for their own protection. The kid was ignorant about the fact that he can still get sunburns and skin cancer.
Also, @News, race DOES determine many human traits and abilities. Biologically. Society may claim differently because people are unwilling to hear the truth right now, but that doesn't make your argument any more true from a scientific standpoint. Some day we will learn to celebrate the unique advantages that people of different racial backgrounds have, but for now we (in America) are stuck claiming that every race is exactly the same, as society's rebound reaction to slavery.
You do know that the vast majority of scientists now say that there is no biological reality to race right? Outside of a few odds and ends that have some geographic groups with higher percentages of certain things race is purely a cultural construct.
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in my microeconomics class, my professor openly stated a statistical fact (rather quite comfortably also if I may add) that White Men have a higher chance of success in today's society than Black Men..
is that racist? It sure looks like it to me, and this was at UMass Amherst, so there WAS a big diversity in the 150+ student class..
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Sad when they have to teach you not to be racist
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On November 28 2010 16:34 QuoC wrote:
in my microeconomics class, my professor openly stated a statistical fact (rather quite comfortably also if I may add) that White Men have a higher chance of success in today's society than Black Men..
is that racist? It sure looks like it to me, and this was at UMass Amherst, so there WAS a big diversity in the 150+ student class..
Wait, wut? That's racist? How? lol...
Does that mean stating that blacks are 1/2 as likely as whites to finish a 4 year college education is racist (it's a fact btw, from NPR).
I mean, I think people are being way too politically correct here. These statistical statements don't give explanations; they're just observations. It's not saying blacks are genetically inferior or bullshit like that; it's saying here's our current situation, and that is all
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I don't understand why people are taught that everyone is equal. That is totally not the case, and it's ridiculous. The fact is nobody is the same and everyone is different The only thing that people are equal in, is the rights that everyone is entitled to. That's it.
Although this is a horrible analogy, Are you going to treat the President or Prime Minister of your country the same as some homeless man? You should, but most people wont.
However, the op sounds ridiculous with his comments of "I try not to be racist" what the hell?
Why do you have to try to not be racist?
You shouldn't have to be taught to not be racist as it is unhealthy attitude and makes you sound like a bigot.
It basically sounds like you were trying to take extra precautions since your friend got fired for working at KFC and doing something stupid.
To my point, As a black person, I don't understand why Whites or anyone for that matter allows themselves to be so easily pushed over by people who play the race card.
There have been a few cases I've seen here in Canada where people play the race card and get away with it for bullshit.
It honestly makes the rest of us blacks who actually want to live a good life and be functioning citizens of society look like assholes who play the race card to get whatever they want.
Show no tolerance for people who play the race card for stupid reasons just as how you would show no tolerance for those who make racist remarks. Those people are just as bad.
P.S. I never wear sun cream and i'm brown as hell.
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why would you need to try not to be racist if your not racist in the first place....
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On November 28 2010 16:34 QuoC wrote:
in my microeconomics class, my professor openly stated a statistical fact (rather quite comfortably also if I may add) that White Men have a higher chance of success in today's society than Black Men..
is that racist? It sure looks like it to me, and this was at UMass Amherst, so there WAS a big diversity in the 150+ student class..
Mathematics is the cold hard truth, take it or leave it. It doesn't do P.C
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On November 21 2010 23:46 Flicky wrote:
I had a black student in my two day-session, which is unusual because not many black people live around my area because it's expensive.
you're racist by the way
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EPT
