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Yes, it's that time of the year again. The time when kids like me begin to panic about university applications.
I honestly don't know why there isn't just a giant sheet every year of exactly what is going to happen leading up to the day. Would save us tons of trouble. They still haven't told any of us when the dates for registration are.
I just have a few (a lot) of questions I hope the fine folks at TeamLiquid could help with.
I live in Toronto. I'm planning to apply to maybe four universities. I'm just unsure of where I should be going if I even get in any of them. I'm equally unsure of what programs to apply to at each university.
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Getting all the useless information out of the way...
I'll be applying to
Queen's
Western
Waterloo
UofT
Last Year's Average: 92~
Current Average: 88-92
hard to calculate myself at the moment because of recent exams and just me forgetting my marks.
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1) What are my chances? Should I need to work harder to get a 94~ average to get into any of these universities? How much do universities look into extracurriculars (i.e. not academics)?
2) What is the difference between Computer Science, Computational Science, Computational Science and Software Engineering? What do I choose if I enjoy Maths more?
Only difference I see in registration is Software Engineering requires Chem and Phys, along with Adv. Functions, Calculus and English.
3) How does each school fare in each course? Are there particular schools I should be applying to for any specific course?
4) Does it matter what high school I come from? My school is not really the best. Not even close really. One of the worst ranking. Will they look at my marks differently? My school offers no Honours or AP or any of that. Just regular classes. Is that a problem?
5) English is not my strongest subject. coughcough asian. It probably pulls my average down 2 or 3 percent. Does this affect the top 6 average? I have 6 other courses above 89. Do they still include English?
6) What's life like on residence? Any tips? How does it even work?
7) Got any tips?
Thanks for all the help. Maybe it'll help some other confused people too.
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1) With an 89 and absolutely 0 extra-curriculars, I was accepted into every engineering program in those schools. Computer Science shouldn't be too much harder to get into, if at all. However, higher marks means a higher entrance scholarship, and can reduce your tuition by a few thousand for first year or possibly a few thousand each year. Just applying to OSAP with a decent average will get you 3500 a year in scholarship (just from OSAP, this does not include whatever the school wants to give you).
2) Can't answer this one.
3) Can't give unbiased answer.
4) Lack of AP or whatever was not a problem for me.
5) They always include English, it will always count, both for admission and entrance scholarship.
6) It's fun.
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I dont think Canadian universities give much weight to extracirriculars except the business schools(faculties). 90 average gets you in to most egineering programs (if not all) in Canada from what I've gleaned from my buddies in Engineering.
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It seems to me that Computer Science is essentially Discrete Math and more math... :D
edit: You need English for everything, its always going to be in the general curriculum.
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I'm sorry, am I insane or did I read Computational Science twice? I'm having trouble seeing the difference.
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Hi, I can answer a bit about SE and CS differences, but not much (I'm a 1st year SE major at RIT). CS is more theory based, while SE goes more into applications of the software. From what I understand so far from my courses is that CS is more coding (basically that's all it is), and SE is about 70% coding, along with interacting more with your customer. My brother was a CS major and is now a Software Engineer, so there is A LOT of overlap in these fields.
Residence is different with every school, I enjoy my dorms, but one of my friends actually hates everything about his school's residence halls. I'm not sure about Canada, but it seems like every school has a lot of partying on the weekends, and some even on weekdays, I know it was definitely a change in pace for me  .
Tips: Don't stress too much about getting into school, when your 1st year starts, you'll look back and be like, wow, it's not so bad.
Good luck with whatever you choose to do!
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90 average gets you everywhere in Canada. Quit worrying.
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It does not, entrance average has been skyrocketing past couple of years.
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Hey OP. I was in the same situation as you last year. I applied to Ottawa (I'm from Ottawa), Queen's, York, and Waterloo for business programs.
1) I'm assuming you're applying to computer science or engineering from question 2. You should not have any problems with getting acceptances, but do not panic if your offer doesn't come until the very end. I did not hear a response from the program I wanted until the beginning of May. Queens tend to emphasize more on extracurriculars than grades for certain programs.
2) I'm not too sure on this, but I HIGHLY recommend that you e-mail the program directors at each university. If you enjoy math and want some challenge, then definitely consider Waterloo as one of your options. (You will be taking two math courses per term for first year)
3) Waterloo seems to be the prestigious school anything related to math/computer science/engineering, followed by U of T. Western and Queen's are probably average.
4) Your high school should not have any impact on your acceptance. My high school did not offer any AP courses either, but I got into university just fine.
5) English is ALWAYS used to calculate your top 6 average. Don't forget to meet the minimum requirement for the programs that you applied.
6) I HIGHLY recommend residence for first year. This is where you will make most of your friends since the majority are from outside the city and no one really knows each other. There will either be a dorm-style or suite-style. For dorms you will either get a single or double room. I recommend single room if you're the type of guy who needs peace and quite often, or double room if you're outgoing since this is where most of the party happens. If you're in a suite then it's like an apartment; you will live with 2 or 3 people, have a kitchen, bathroom etc.
7) Just do your best and enjoy your last year at high school! It was certainly the best year for me with spares and going to lunch with friends who can drive. If you happen to get an offer, make sure you don't slack off in second semester since the offer is CONDITIONAL you will lose the offer if you fall on the requirements.
I hope this was helpful.
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1) Extracurriculars do count for something, but really depends on the program you are planning to get into. For example, I didn't have much extracurriculars in high school, just a high average (around mid-90s), and I got accepted into some programs, and didnt get accepted into others. The top ones, such as Math CA at Waterloo, Schulich, Commerce at Queens, most definitely require you to have good grades + legit extracurriculars (by legit I mean not just clubs during your last year of high school, more like consistent stuff such as sports teams or any hobbies you spent alot of time on)
4) I don't think it matters where you come from.
5) English is always included in your top 6. If you plan to get into CompSci or anything math-related, i guess you dont really have to worry about English that much (except if you have to write essays or something as part of your admission requirements).
Tips for university? Learn to manage your time; learn to balance work and social relations. I'm at Waterloo with Co-op, and it's really hard to get a summer job at a good company with a crappy transcript; marks are VERY important (but don't aim too high because you'll only get disappointed). Always go to class, tutorials, office hours, do your assignments, and everything to keep on track. It's very hard to catch up sometimes, especially in math/CS courses.
No matter what you do, DO NOT PLAGARIZE in university. One of my friends got caught recently and man...it was sleepless nights and constant worrying for him. But then again, if you keep on with your work, there won't be any needs to plagarize.
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It really depends what program you are applying to, but I think average is right where it should be. I can't speak for any of the other schools, but I know that the PSE (Personal Statement of Experience) for Queen's is worth a significant amount of your application. I'm convinced that I was accepted because of extra curriculars, as my average was at the low end of their acceptance range.
That being said, it seems you are looking into studying computer science or math. All of these schools have great programs, but from what I've heard Waterloo would be the best choice in terms of the quality of the degree for math and compsci. Queen's has a great community though. I wouldn't give it up for anything.
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waterloo co-op program is very good. If you plan on going to graduate school, I recommend against UofT.
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!! No warranty on these explanations, but its what i think these courses will probably be like !!
Computer Science -> Building computers, Optimizing them, algorithms, data structures, a lot of formal math, logics, a little electronics
Computational Science -> thats about calculating stuff basically. so its more like robot modeling, physics simulation, basically anything you do with a computer thats related to simulating, monitoring or controlling real life machinery.
Computational Science and Software Engineering -> this is probably quite similar to the last one, but with focused more on developing software. So, you'll maybe have a little algorithms, data structures and programming theory in this, and a couple of things like quality management, requirements analysis, project management. Software engineering is half of what the average firms IT department is good for (the half that is not hardware and customer data maintenance).
well at least thats about what it is at my university here.
You also asked what to chose if you like maths. Well - in it depends on what kind of math. If you like just multiplying a bunch of numbers and doing function analysis, your probably okay with the computational science thingy. But if you are more into formal math, like automata theory, logics, algorithms, basically a lot of discrete mathematics (the stuff where you use a lot of integers instead of continuous real values), then definitely go for computer science.
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Hey, I'm a 1st year at Waterloo (Doing Comp. Sci) so feel free to PM questions if you have any.
1. I think a 90 average should be fine for most school and courses. Of course, that doesn't mean you can slack off now XD It's always nice to get a big entrance scholarship so keep working hard! :D
2. Like most people have mentioned, CS is more theory based, with a lot of math involved (At least here at Waterloo), and SE is more application based. Plus I don't think SE students get many electives compared to CS students (Although that always isn't a good thing -.-)
3. Um I don't know about other schools, but I know Waterloo students and Profs are always talking about our graphics course, and how people come to Waterloo just for the Graphics course, so I guess that's one "unique" one we have. Here is the course site, but it's a fourth year course so... yeah : http://www.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~cs488/
Oh and we have a new Machine Learning (How computers learn from their mistakes) course that was recently added, so there's that too (But it's also fourth year; I'm sure all first year classes at all universities are pretty much the same XD)
4. Um I don't think so. My high school didn't have any honours or AP either and I was perfectly fine.
5. I'm sure every school looks at your English mark, and at Waterloo you have to take the English Proficiency Test (Which isn't all that bad really, I guess it depends on your English mark right now).
6. Life at residence is awesome, live at res during your first year, or you will probably never end up living at res ever. Tip-wise, make sure you actually apply and pay your deposit (My friend missed the deadline and he has to live off-campus XD) and make your choices wisely when choosing which res to live at. I guess that's all about res.
7. As long as you have good work skills, university will be similar (Strongly stressing similar and not same) to high school, it's just that all your classes will be moving at a super fast paced compared to what you have seen. And make sure you go around and meet new people!
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Stop worrying about your average, you'll get in. Your top 6 Gr 12 marks will probably give you a solid 90 average. I applied for 6 programs (including Engsci at Toronto) with a 92 average. My (Chinese) parents thought I wouldn't get into anywhere, but I got in everywhere.
Live in res, you'll probably meet a people who will be your good friends for the rest of your life. Not living in res is a big mistake in my opinion.
You probably don't even need to worry too much about which program you choose if you pick one of Compsci, Compscience, or CompMath, because it's relatively easy to switch programs if you have an okay university average. SoftEng will be more trouble since it's cross faculty. There are good jobs in SoftEng, but pretty much everyone will look down on you in disdain, for no reason. Just sayin'.
If your highschool was bad you might not do as well in university as in highschool, but that's life and there's nothing you can do about it. You'll probably do fine. Personally I enjoy it a lot when people come into university with great highschool averages and then fail miserably because I feel justice is being enacted. But seriously it's probably fine.
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Hyrule18937 Posts
As I'm from the US, I can only really answer 2 and 7, so here I go:
2) Computer Science is about 60% theory, 40% application. You'll learn various languages, but you'll spend most of your time working with math and learning algorithms and optimization techniques. You'll have some pretty cool classes (like Boolean Math) and some pretty boring classes (Linear Algebra). Computational Science is more about building models for data analysis and such. I never really dealt with it, so that's about all I know. Software Engineering is more about how to go about building a program, with a focus on things like modeling a program before writing it and things of that nature.
7) Relax. During the application year(s), a lot of people tend to go into "holyfuckholyfuckholyfuckholyfuckholyfuckimsostressedholyfuckholyfuckholyfuck" mode. Get everything done as early as possible, that way if you feel overwhelmed you can just stop for a while. Leaving things to the last second will really suck hardcore.
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Hello, I'm currently in my 4th year of undergraduate studies at U of T, Engineering Science - Infrastructure Major. I think I'm in the right position to offer my opinions/responses, so here they are:
1) If you have a 90+, chances are you'll get in with the entrance scholarship, of course. The guidelines they give you (last year's entrance averages) are just approximate, most likely you'll be accepted even if the program says "high 80's to low 90's" or "low 90's to mid 90's". Extra-curriculars don't really matter in terms of getting in (especially since you have a 90+), but they do help you get extra scholarships in some cases (Waterloo - Nanotechnology offered me a ton of extra scholarship on top of entrance one because of my extra-curriculars... but I ended up in U of T lol).
2) I really don't know, but just because I'm an engineer, I recommend software engineering! haha. Different departments for sure, and it will probably determine your residence, tuition, and also the group of people you'll spend time with. If you're part of Arts and Science department, then you'll at least have some girls nearby...
3) For software engineering and computer science, I'd actually give Waterloo the upper hand (over my home school, U of T). Queens and Western engineering... you will be looked down upon. Yes. We (the U of T Engineering Science people) look down on other U of T engineers, all other engineers, and ESPECIALLY "engineers" at Queens and Western and York and what else. I put the quotations in there deliberately. You see what I mean? You will certainly hang out with more caucasian people if you go to Queens or Western, and probably more Asians if you go to Waterloo or U of T.
4) AP or IB is recognized by some schools, but as far as U of T engineering goes, they are not recognized at all. It certainly helps to have some extra education I suppose, but from my experience, everyone got on even grounds at 1st year 2nd semester. As for the high school ranking, they don't matter much, as long as your mark is high. Being the best at your school does help in terms of getting the Queen Elizabeth Scholarship (I hope you looked at this one, it's a free 3500 dollars PER YEAR).
5) I was 3rd (unofficial.. but everyone knows who's top in each subject, right?) in English in my entire graduating year ("class of 2007") with a 86. Yes, that pulled my average down significantly. Did it matter much? No, because my overall average was good enough. Repeating the same point, it's just the top-6 average that you should care about. You can't really get a 90+ with a 70 in English, anyway.
6) 4 years of commuting. It sucks. Go to rez for first year, then grab a couple of close friends and live off-campus after. Commuting WILL suck. For example, in my case, I basically have 21 hours per day (3 hours lost in commuting time, total) as opposed to everyone else having 24. It's super-difficult to study during commute, even harder to get a "comfortable" nap... it's basically a complete waste of time.
7) Software engineering, computational science, computer science... you'd better make some tight friendships with girls and hang on to them for your dear life. Don't worry too much about university yet, it'll come when it comes. For now, focus on getting as high as mark as possible right until the end (scholarships are FREE money, you'll appreciate it when you get 'em), get a bunch of graduation awards, make your parents proud, and yeah.
Actually, one technical tip: if your experience in programming is limited to Java or Visual Basic (as is the case with most high school programs), I strongly recommend you learn C. If you've tried C++ but not C, still learn C. Buy a book, learn it. You will not regret learning C.
Best of luck! If you're interested in U of T engineering programs, feel free to PM me.
(off to lecture I go~)
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1) 90% is enough to get you anywhere I would imagine, I doubt you need much extra-curricular on top of that with ~90%. That said, it's good to do other stuff not from an academic stand point- but from a personal development stand point. So I would highly recommend doing something volunteer related
2) Don't know :/
4) Doesn't matter which school you came from, I went to a shitty school in the middle of nowhere.
5) English... well communication skills are probably the most important thing ever in any job. However, English doesn't really encapsulate that well. So mark wise I wouldn't sweat over it at all, a lot of asians I know didn't so so well in English and were accepted into Engineering.
6) I really enjoy residence. Basically, you look through a bunch of different residences, pick the one you think will have the best looking women you will enjoy the most. Then you move into a super small room, use a shared bathroom, and get to know bunch of great people.
7) Honestly, I don't think that people can give you any relevant advice. I went into University with all these great ideas of what I was going to do, all this great advice- and... really none of it mattered in the end. It's not something you can be told, it's something you learn.
3) You may have noticed I didn't include it above.
Do not go to Waterloo if you want a normal life! For undergrad education the schools you are applying for will make little or no difference. The social aspects will have a much greater impact than the academic in between top tier schools. Therefore I would recommend Queens and Western over Waterloo and UofT.
You didn't mention it, but come to McGill- it's awesome!! :D
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Computational science is about modeling thigns with math, this is prob the most math intensive major you mentioned
Computer Engineering is a mix of programming, and hardware design. If you wanna build processors this is the route to go
Computer Science is about how computers work in theory, and in practice. You learn a lot about how stuff works at the lower levels of computers. Generally you can learn about operating systems, encryption, computer graphics, parallel computing, network communication, CS theory and more. If you want a nice mix of theory, and work applying the theory this is the right one.
Software engineering is about filling out paper work to justify your existence to your boss. About half of what you learn is practical programming skills, the other half is about documenting a projects progress, making time estimates, and creating a paper trail to convince people you are actually working. Also focuses on design, mostly for maintainability. This has little to no theory involved. If you want less technical education, and more pay go for this one.
Of course this is a biased answer from a CS major that hate SE. But in all honesty SE is not the way to go if you like math and theory
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EPT
