• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:18
CEST 16:18
KST 23:18
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed14Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll6Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Who will win EWC 2025? The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion Help: rep cant save ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
CSL Xiamen International Invitational Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2025!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 891 users

Diamond, what a F'n joke.

Blogs > DreamScaR
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
DreamScaR
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Canada2127 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-25 18:02:08
September 25 2010 14:31 GMT
#1
On September 26 2010 02:54 Jonoman92 wrote:
Anyone who thinks they are something cool because they hit diamond should just be ignored. However, I don't think there is anything wrong with being proud of reaching diamond because it's a goal for some people.

No need to rain on other people's parade and if they are being annoying just ignore it.


Well, that may have grabbed someones attention which is the whole thought behind it.

Let me first start by going back before explaining the title to this. I've played StarCraft since 1999, I've been apart of Team Liquid for almost 6 years now (and trolled it for a good while before joining). I love the scene and I love the game, what I hate right now are the fucking gamers. Yes, probably a good 95% of you asshats out there. You know who you are, I know I'm one of them to a lot of people as well so it's a mutual feeling.

Now, why do I hate the people? Well it's very simple, people have this feeling that hitting Diamond makes them superior to any and everyone else. Yes, we're all entitled to our opinion but seriously. Diamond for a lot of people is so fucking easy to get.

I'm not trying to take offence to people trying to make their way to Diamond and are having issues but so many of us know that you can stick with one build type or pure cheese to climb your way up to that "IM BETTER THAN YOU, LAWLAL IM DIAMOND WHAT I SAY IS LAW". Don't believe me on that? Read the SC2 Strategy section "Diamond 800, this is what I think".

Where am I going with all these random thoughts, well to a few points that have been said before but re-hashing them needs to be done.

Firstly
Just because you hit Diamond, doesn't mean you're better than someone in Plat or even Bronze. Not everyone masses games on Ladder, just because you're 200-200 means you have time to play more games. Get off your fucking horse.

Secondly
Former skill has no merit on SC2. What do I mean by this? SC2 has taken away a lot of the management that made BroodWar something very tough to jump into at the later stages before SC2. This is a great thing for new gamers to SC2, but it also brings upon a lot of shit that until set strategies are mastered will just rain down more cheese and bullshit. Some of the worst ones at all of this, those fresh Diamond players who only know how to 5rax reaper or 4gate all-in (no one plays zerg ). Try varying your game style, because cheese only works so well and if it's stopped you're screwed. It's a double-edged sword that a standard opening can rip through if done properly.

Thirdly (is that even a word?)
Let me jump to this recent topic about TvZ. Yes I understand the strategy forums are there for helping people, but look at one of the first things said "Diamond 1300". Some of the advice that is posted, is actually awesome but will often get skipped over because it's something like:
WCH wrote:
he is doing exactly what he needs to counter you. Medivacs do help and micro your rines.

It was completely thrown out because it wasn't some huge list of "Do this, build that, copy what I do". The fun of the early stages of a game, are coming up with your own timings, your own pushes.


What does all of this mean?
Well, nothing because people will bitch about it but I digress. The last example (no offence to FindingPride, you were the first topic I saw on the main page) shows my exact point, someone brings in their Diamond rank and their rating. People have it in their minds that 1300 is this god-tier level that cannot be matched but you'll often see more people as of late in this area, why? Because the ladder isn't a proper ELO that hurts the users more for losses than it should. Someone with a 50% win ratio should be able to sit anywhere near 1000 (not that FindingPride is or isn't, just an example).

TL;DR and summary
Diamond players are like high school preps, the higher their "standing" the more stuck-up they become. Rating means shit-all because most are from mass game. If you want help, don't fucking post about your rank and rating because no one cares. Everyone needs advice and practice.


ps, I'm Diamond 600 (44 games) 68% win ratio. (@ mods, just ranting, if there's an issue somewhere I'm willing to modify^^)

**
~ Aka ItsWoodrow on Twitter
Biochemist
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States1008 Posts
September 25 2010 14:40 GMT
#2
I feel like I've read this post before.

Oh, here it is!
DreamScaR
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Canada2127 Posts
September 25 2010 14:42 GMT
#3
Biochemist, I've read that before :p Kind of where the idea stemmed from, but I felt the need to rant on my own :p
~ Aka ItsWoodrow on Twitter
Lightswarm
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada966 Posts
September 25 2010 14:48 GMT
#4
I love reading about these rants, cuz it just shows how immature most people are on tl
Team[AoV]
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-25 14:54:27
September 25 2010 14:53 GMT
#5
they're wrong, and you're wrong.
Rating means something, but its not an end-all.
You want to paint it white and black but the truth is its not that simple.
Maybe you shouldnt post you rating while asking for advice. Maybe you should- there is no harm.
But one thing is for certain if you arent in the top percentile you have no business giving out advice.

And a 1800 player with a lot of games played might deserve more respect then a 1800 player with few games played. It's too easy to get 1800 if you just abuse your bonus pool and play when you're at 100%. But will you learn much from milking it like that? Not really.

So, all in all, the ladder rating is the best measurement of skill we have, aside from tourney results.
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
dinmsab
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Malaysia2246 Posts
September 25 2010 15:15 GMT
#6
Nice rant.. and I hate to break it to you but there is no friggin way people in bronze/silver/gold are better than diamond players, that just makes no sense. Maybe mid-diamond players could be better than a diamond with slightly higher points, but thats about it. If you are good.. a few games would get you really high on the ladder, we're not talking about more than 2 hours of daily gaming here.

I agree though, some people who claim to be diamonds provide really shitty advice.Although people in the lower tier tends to spew out ever weirder shit than what bad diamonds have to say.
..
mOnion
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5657 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-25 15:24:50
September 25 2010 15:19 GMT
#7
you sound mad and i dont agree with anything you said at all

ppl like you give TL a bad name
☆★☆ 7486!!! Join the Ban mOnion Anti-Trolling Initiative! - Caller | "on a scale of machine to 10, how bad is that Zerg?" - LZgamer | you are the new tl.net bonjwa monion, congrats - Rekrul | "Cheeseburgers dynamite lilacs" - Chill
Pwntrucci[sR]
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada1519 Posts
September 25 2010 15:27 GMT
#8
Why can't we all just get along ! ?
bg
T0fuuu
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia2275 Posts
September 25 2010 15:32 GMT
#9
lol u got mad over what? raging cos u are 9 year vet that doesnt get respect from the mehh diamond crowd because u are part of the mehhhhhhh diamond? no really. im not hating on you but if you want to prove to everyone that they are bad and should shuttup u have to whore the ladder and become one of those 1600+ players otherwise u become one of those im better than you without proving anything ppl. yes u have become ur worst enemy
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
September 25 2010 15:32 GMT
#10
Its actually pretty tricky business. If you put how good you are in your post, a lot of people are gonna think like you did (and not saying theres really anything wrong with that). However, if you don't post how good you are, people are just gonna dismiss your post under the assumption that you're awful. The only real way to get around this that I've seen is to be one of the rather small group of people that TL readers will have actually heard of/have some respect for.

Luckily, I dont post too much help/strategy. :D
kaisr
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada715 Posts
September 25 2010 15:34 GMT
#11
I don't get why you think sticking to one build type is bad. Most top progamers in BW stick to one build type with very minor variations just because it is so solid.
Adeny
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Norway1233 Posts
September 25 2010 15:38 GMT
#12
There's absolutely nothing wrong with stating your rank/points/ w/e as long as you don't act like it actually means anything. And if you don't someone is always going to jump in like "I disagree with you there fore you are a bronze player, and I am right because I'm 900 points diamond and you didn't state your rank". It's just an idiot-filter, we don't need that guy replying, y'know? There is absolutely no other way to assert authority (unless you're a known player), so disclaimering a post with your rank is perfectly fine because there are no other options.
DyEnasTy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3714 Posts
September 25 2010 15:38 GMT
#13
the only time i really hate when someone throws their rank around, is when they are giving advice that is completely wrong, or are arguing with a truly good player. I like iccups system far better, but I think if blizzard stops making lame decisions, they could really have a good laddering system.
Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop. -Manifesto7
Wr3k
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2533 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-25 15:43:44
September 25 2010 15:40 GMT
#14
1300 means you are in the top ~3000 players in the world. That isn't exactly noob territory considering there are millions of players.

That being said, I don't ever go to the strategy forums anyways because 99% of the people who post are fucking retarded.
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
September 25 2010 15:42 GMT
#15

ps, I'm Diamond 600 (44 games) 68% win ratio. (@ mods, just ranting, if there's an issue somewhere I'm willing to modify^^)


If you want help, don't fucking post about your rank and rating because no one cares. Everyone needs advice and practice.


wut

Look someone sounds like there just butthurt.
Too Busy to Troll!
dekuschrub
Profile Joined May 2008
United States2069 Posts
September 25 2010 15:42 GMT
#16
1k diamond player here and this is what I think

i agree that diamond is easy as balls, but the way high up diamond ranks are pretty legit
kaisr
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada715 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-25 15:49:55
September 25 2010 15:47 GMT
#17
On September 26 2010 00:38 DyEnasTy wrote:
the only time i really hate when someone throws their rank around, is when they are giving advice that is completely wrong, or are arguing with a truly good player. I like iccups system far better, but I think if blizzard stops making lame decisions, they could really have a good laddering system.


This, but I'm pretty sure blizzard is making the ladder like this on purpose because if not newbs will be stuck at their current ranking forever which is pretty unmotivating and would probably turn them off of playing as opposed to steadily gaining points. I mean in ICCUP I think I was stuck in C- for like 4 seasons, touched C once then promptly fell back to C- (this was obviously done while avoiding koreans too). But yeah once you get to like 1200 diamond, people usually know what they're doing (probably like D/D+ on ICCUP)
DreamScaR
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Canada2127 Posts
September 25 2010 15:52 GMT
#18
Half, I posted that at the end to see how many people actually read through, nice to see you did .

Also, to the people saying that I'm mad or angry, it's far from that. It may have come off that way with throwing the odd swears in there, but I find it to be more funny than anything.

On September 26 2010 00:15 dinmsab wrote:
Nice rant.. and I hate to break it to you but there is no friggin way people in bronze/silver/gold are better than diamond players, that just makes no sense. Maybe mid-diamond players could be better than a diamond with slightly higher points, but thats about it. If you are good.. a few games would get you really high on the ladder, we're not talking about more than 2 hours of daily gaming here.


The reason why I'm re-quoting you here is that not everyone ladders, or ladders often :p. There are a lot of people that just play within their team that may only have a silver rating from their placement when the game first came out, but would easily be at a 1000+ diamond ^^
~ Aka ItsWoodrow on Twitter
DeckOneBell
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States526 Posts
September 25 2010 16:05 GMT
#19
Uh. Almost every player, if they would be 1000+ diamond, is 1000+ diamond. It's actually not hard to get that rank, at this point in the game's release. There may be a few exceptions, but not very many. Even HuK masses games on ladder, and he plays professionally. Even the pros in teams still ladder.

Also, massing games doesn't get you into diamond. You need to consistently beat other diamond ranked players, which explains the massive amount of bronze players. Going 200-200 in bronze will keep you in bronze. There are probably some bronze players with those statistics.

If you play more, and you're not at the very high end, of diamond rank 10 or above, your win rate is going to drop down more and more, because the matchmaking system tries to push your winrate to 50%. Most diamond players above 50 still have a winrate better than 50%, but it's not obscenely high, except for the top players.

Yeah, diamond points X isn't a perfect indicator of skill, but it's fairly decent.

As many people in many other threads have said, having bad mechanics means you won't be able to understand the game at the same level. You just won't. You don't do all the things you need to be doing, and so your view of the game is skewed. Becoming better comes from you getting better mechanically, which also helps you get better strategically.

I hate all the posts that offer help because basically all of them are stupid, and come from players who clearly don't understand the game. But diamond players tend to be just a little less stupid.
KawaiiRice
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States2914 Posts
September 25 2010 16:05 GMT
#20
Getting in diamond is like getting a driver's permit
and getting 1300 is like getting your first car (and goes up ~50-100 every week cuz of the ladder system)
1000 now is not 1000 2 weeks back zomgD:
@KawaiiRiceLighT
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
13:00
King of the Hill Weekly #218
CranKy Ducklings203
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 183
SpeCial 135
mcanning 65
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 42554
Sea 3455
EffOrt 1876
Larva 1531
Stork 837
Mini 513
Light 334
Snow 282
Zeus 221
PianO 157
[ Show more ]
ToSsGirL 109
Hyun 87
TY 85
Sharp 83
sSak 73
Backho 69
sas.Sziky 49
Rush 39
Sacsri 29
scan(afreeca) 24
Yoon 23
GoRush 22
Noble 13
IntoTheRainbow 12
Terrorterran 11
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
Shine 10
SilentControl 10
Hm[arnc] 4
Dota 2
Gorgc10528
singsing3042
qojqva882
syndereN230
Counter-Strike
sgares426
byalli285
markeloff110
edward32
Other Games
hiko1437
B2W.Neo1365
DeMusliM517
Lowko455
Fuzer 248
QueenE58
KnowMe55
Mew2King50
Trikslyr35
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2399
StarCraft 2
angryscii 21
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 2
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota247
League of Legends
• Nemesis4283
• Jankos1321
Upcoming Events
WardiTV European League
1h 42m
Fjant vs Babymarine
Mixu vs HiGhDrA
Gerald vs ArT
goblin vs MaNa
Jumy vs YoungYakov
Replay Cast
9h 42m
OSC
9h 42m
Epic.LAN
21h 42m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 19h
Epic.LAN
1d 21h
CSO Contender
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Online Event
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Esports World Cup
4 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
5 days
Esports World Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

JPL Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.