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On September 19 2010 12:46 intrigue wrote:
new posters are like puppies, like yeah they can be really cute and nice but if they aren't house trained they'll still shit all over the floor. now imagine a room full of nerdy puppies excited over the release of a popular pc game's sequel, spewing their wastes and dirtying their paws and spreading it everywhere, just everywhere like on the walls and windows and on your shirt and face. once it starts, there's no cleaning it up. that's why we are pretty strict with our rules - ultimately the only thing you need to do to not get banned is to be able to control your e-bowels.
this analogy is apt for the poster population as a whole, because older dogs are also quite prone to losing control of their various sphincters. but when a dog you really love makes a doo-doo, it's more like "aww you poor doggie you".
O_O hahahahahah
That just made my night, thank you so much.
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9070 Posts
On September 19 2010 12:44 konadora wrote:
i think it lies in the generalisation that low count posters = bad posters, due to the influx of newcomers to the site thanks to SC2. of course, with these number of new posters, there are BOUND to be people who make retarded posts. it's just the few that spoil the image of the whole. tbh i felt that way in the beginning too, but later on, the bad posters were weeded out, things are getting better now imo. just takes time to adjust to the new wave of sc2-ians.
yea, lets blame SC2. Actually sc2 is the root of all evil on TL. Ever since the beta came out, "Blogs" in particular ,from a source of Awesome and great balloon blogs, has turned into SC2 rant section or even worse - "My opinion on some random SC2 shit"
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United States22883 Posts
On September 19 2010 11:56 Nal_rAwr wrote:
yeah, its an endless cycle
pissed off mods make harsh rules and ban people easily, then rules are "enforced," then the community takes up a drastically intolerant attitude and aren't very lenient to some people who don't really know their way around etc etc
EXAMPLE:
1. mod comes around, had a bad day
2. he abruptly closes a thread about something that has already been made
3. suddenly, the rest of the community (numbers 4-8 on your list) learns to be harsh to everyone who isn't highly resourceful or etc
ANOTHER EXAMPLE:
1. mod comes around, feelin a bit RAAGEy
2. bans someone who isn't completely on topic, or completely nice about things
3. rest of community feels obliged to shit on every little kid who isn't SRS BZNZ
yea sometimes it pisses me off too
You don't get in trouble because we're having a bad day and decide to take it out on you. You get in trouble because you're consistently one of the worst posters on this forum. You are, in fact, an exception to the thought that high post count users should get more leeway.
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Woah Antz, that's quite a long post. 
Well, I agree with what you have to say. A lot of other people mentioned some of the things you had to say there and I agreed with those people to some extent as well. XD
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United States22883 Posts
On September 19 2010 12:48 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 12:44 konadora wrote:
i think it lies in the generalisation that low count posters = bad posters, due to the influx of newcomers to the site thanks to SC2. of course, with these number of new posters, there are BOUND to be people who make retarded posts. it's just the few that spoil the image of the whole. tbh i felt that way in the beginning too, but later on, the bad posters were weeded out, things are getting better now imo. just takes time to adjust to the new wave of sc2-ians. yea, lets blame SC2. Actually sc2 is the root of all evil on TL. Ever since the beta came out, "Blogs" in particular ,from a source of Awesome and great balloon blogs, has turned into SC2 rant section or even worse - "My opinion on some random SC2 shit"
Most blogs were terrible before SC2 came out. Remember when it was just a page full of homework/girl problems? To be honest, I don't think the forum (with exception of SC2 Strategy) has degenerated at all with the influx of new users. There might be more people who get in trouble, but there's also a ton more people who contribute or make interesting comments.
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konadora
Singapore66072 Posts
On September 19 2010 12:46 intrigue wrote:
new posters are like puppies, like yeah they can be really cute and nice but if they aren't house trained they'll still shit all over the floor. now imagine a room full of nerdy puppies excited over the release of a popular pc game's sequel, spewing their wastes and dirtying their paws and spreading it everywhere, just everywhere like on the walls and windows and on your shirt and face. once it starts, there's no cleaning it up. that's why we are pretty strict with our rules - ultimately the only thing you need to do to not get banned is to be able to control your e-bowels.
this analogy is apt for the poster population as a whole, because older dogs are also quite prone to losing control of their various sphincters. but when a dog you really love makes a doo-doo, it's more like "aww you poor doggie you".
this is so cute omg lol
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On September 19 2010 12:49 TheEpicLolz wrote:Woah Antz, that's quite a long post. Well, I agree with what you have to say. A lot of other people mentioned some of the things you had to say there and I agreed with those people to some extent as well. XD
It only seems long because I quoted your entire post in pieces. Keep in mind though, I never said that if your opinions differ from teamliquid ideals, or if you dont contribute, you will be booted. I have yet to make a single intelligent post in this site, but I mostly fly below the radar just by not letting the opinions i have that i KNOW sound stupid out. Although the few times I haven't kept myself in check I have gotten warned or temp'd for it.
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Dude, this is how every single damn community works. You go to high school and all the seniors pick on you and pull pranks on you guys because you are freshman. You go to the NFL, you carry veteran player's pads, and just hope they don't tape you on the goal post or shave your head like this
http://www.apknews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Tim-Tebow-Haircut.jpg
You go to work, and you have to earn your respect and not be a dousche. And here, unless you're an incredibly good gamer and have won tournaments or are in the top 20 world rankings or something, no one is gonna care what you say. The only other to get respect is to be a veteran and have a good post count.
But yes, I do agree with some of the mods abusing their power.For example, I remember an argument between Chill and this one guy, and after like 2 pages of arguing, Chill permanently banned that guy. However, I think mods do way more good than harm. If it wasn't for mods, we would have a rage filled site, just like 99% of the internet. I'm glad I can go on TL, read about everything thats going on in the pro scene, and be able to put up my viewpoints and discussing things with people. But trust me, I know where you're coming from, I think I got temp banned like twice, and I got really pissed off, but after a while, you learn to understand things.
Also, another good point you made was that when you ask a question, everyone just kills you. When I asked in a blog when the MSL finals was on, everyone was incredibly mean and just said "use calender, how the hell did you not see that" or something along those lines. The only nice person was Omegalisk, I think that was his name. And after that, I used the calender function which for some wierd reason I never saw.
And I kind of do think SC2 has at least degraded this site in some ways. For example, I saw a thread about how he thought being called a "foreigner" in the community was offensive
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=153473 And I was just angry at how little he knew of the history of teamliquid and about the sc1 scene, that it it devoted to. Anyways I have to go back to my homework
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9070 Posts
On September 19 2010 12:51 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 12:48 disciple wrote:On September 19 2010 12:44 konadora wrote:
i think it lies in the generalisation that low count posters = bad posters, due to the influx of newcomers to the site thanks to SC2. of course, with these number of new posters, there are BOUND to be people who make retarded posts. it's just the few that spoil the image of the whole. tbh i felt that way in the beginning too, but later on, the bad posters were weeded out, things are getting better now imo. just takes time to adjust to the new wave of sc2-ians. yea, lets blame SC2. Actually sc2 is the root of all evil on TL. Ever since the beta came out, "Blogs" in particular ,from a source of Awesome and great balloon blogs, has turned into SC2 rant section or even worse - "My opinion on some random SC2 shit" Most blogs were terrible before SC2 came out. Remember when it was just a page full of homework/girl problems? To be honest, I don't think the forum (with exception of SC2 Strategy) has degenerated at all with the influx of new users. There might be more people who get in trouble, but there's also a ton more people who contribute or make interesting comments.
Maybe as sheer quality "Blogs" hasnt got much worse, but the topics covered before in the section created plenty of drama and legendary TL moments. Now, even if there are some great blogs, they get berried by SC2 stuff. Girl blogs were awesome, we miss those really. Just think that the last one we had was Xero's fake story.
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On September 19 2010 12:49 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 11:56 Nal_rAwr wrote:
yeah, its an endless cycle
pissed off mods make harsh rules and ban people easily, then rules are "enforced," then the community takes up a drastically intolerant attitude and aren't very lenient to some people who don't really know their way around etc etc
EXAMPLE:
1. mod comes around, had a bad day
2. he abruptly closes a thread about something that has already been made
3. suddenly, the rest of the community (numbers 4-8 on your list) learns to be harsh to everyone who isn't highly resourceful or etc
ANOTHER EXAMPLE:
1. mod comes around, feelin a bit RAAGEy
2. bans someone who isn't completely on topic, or completely nice about things
3. rest of community feels obliged to shit on every little kid who isn't SRS BZNZ
yea sometimes it pisses me off too You don't get in trouble because we're having a bad day and decide to take it out on you. You get in trouble because you're consistently one of the worst posters on this forum. You are, in fact, an exception to the thought that high post count users should get more leeway.
o.O
if he counts as high post count then i do too? jeez i still think of myself as a little forum noobie who's trying to keep his toes clean XP
+ Show Spoiler +i hope i'm not an exception >.>
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United States11637 Posts
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Don't get too discouraged. TL loves smart, interesting people, not whiny kids that complain or troll eachother. Most of the hate comes from people operating under the assumption you are spreading: that being mean to new comers is "cool". The real team liquid is just hanging out at JWD's latest blog and laughing as the kids go at eachother's throats over the latest husky video, waiting for something epic to happen. Sometimes people get in there and stir the pot or close threads that annoy them personally. The rest of us quietly observe, interjecting only when it seems appropriate.
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United States22883 Posts
On September 19 2010 12:59 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 12:51 Jibba wrote:On September 19 2010 12:48 disciple wrote:On September 19 2010 12:44 konadora wrote:
i think it lies in the generalisation that low count posters = bad posters, due to the influx of newcomers to the site thanks to SC2. of course, with these number of new posters, there are BOUND to be people who make retarded posts. it's just the few that spoil the image of the whole. tbh i felt that way in the beginning too, but later on, the bad posters were weeded out, things are getting better now imo. just takes time to adjust to the new wave of sc2-ians. yea, lets blame SC2. Actually sc2 is the root of all evil on TL. Ever since the beta came out, "Blogs" in particular ,from a source of Awesome and great balloon blogs, has turned into SC2 rant section or even worse - "My opinion on some random SC2 shit" Most blogs were terrible before SC2 came out. Remember when it was just a page full of homework/girl problems? To be honest, I don't think the forum (with exception of SC2 Strategy) has degenerated at all with the influx of new users. There might be more people who get in trouble, but there's also a ton more people who contribute or make interesting comments. Maybe as sheer quality "Blogs" hasnt got much worse, but the topics covered before in the section created plenty of drama and legendary TL moments. Now, even if there are some great blogs, they get berried by SC2 stuff. Girl blogs were awesome, we miss those really. Just think that the last one we had was Xero's fake story.
Just a couple days ago, 4 of the top 10 most active blogs were girl blogs!
I think the two most important qualities you can have at TL are resourcefulness and being observant. These are just general thoughts, not specifically to the OP or anything.
Being resourceful includes searching for threads, but it goes beyond that as well. It's something that people should have in real life, and it'd be nice if TL promoted that more. I have a ton of questions every day and a lot of them get answered at TL. Many relate to computer stuff, a lot relate to SC2 and strategy and a lot is just random information that I enjoy. But I almost never need to post a question about these things. It always amazes me that people use TL for their Google service, when the authority and expertise of TL members is really pretty limited. Want to know about mice? Look on ESReality. Questions about what notebook to get? Notebookforum is the best resource. Looking for various openings you can use or want to know how to beat a specific Single Player mission or some random game? Look for it on your own before asking other people to do the work for you. Being able to do research is a pretty crucial skill for every day life. Some people will say they're just lazy and that's why they don't bother, but that's not good enough for TL. If you ask a question here, you should put in at least as much effort as the people responding to you. That's how we build a community and not a Q&A forum.
That's why I don't think you can be upset over me closing that Hotkey thread. The Commandments tell you to search first and there's a message about it right before you make a new thread. And try to think about it from beyond the perspective of one person that's had their thread closed- think about yourself x100,000 other people who might post similarly if that were allowed.
Being observant will help you integrate into the forum much better than racking up a high post count. If you're observant and give it some time, you'll know what we do and why we do it. Even better, you'll get a much better perspective on things if you observe what other people say instead of instinctively posting your opinion. That means reading an entire thread before posting in it, instead of just instinctively replying to the OP. This is also something that extends to real life. It doesn't mean you have to keep quiet, it just means that you should put extra consideration into the things you say. How many people here have had a classmate who immediately asks questions before their professor finishes speaking? Or just says things as soon as they come to mind, without really processing it first. Everyone who's not that person thinks that person is a dumbass. It's a lot more tempting to do that on the internet and tons of people do it here, but we could make the place a bit better if they didn't.
There's a quote from Barry Lopez's Rediscovery of North America that I think sums it up nicely. It's a hippie book, but it fits TL perfectly.
When we enter the landscape to learn something, we are obligated, I think, to pay attention rather than constantly to pose questions. To approach the land as we would a person, by opening an intelligent conversation. And to stay in one place, to make of that one, long oberservation a fully dilated experience. We will always be rewarded if we give the land credit for more than we imagine, and if we imagine it as being more complex even than language.
In these ways we begin, I think, to find a home, to sense how to fit a place.
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i swear there ppl on tl who joined in july and have 1000 posts. Whats worse is that ppl look up to that post count when all they really are doing is spamming.
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On September 19 2010 13:46 T0fuuu wrote:
i swear there ppl on tl who joined in july and have 1000 posts. Whats worse is that ppl look up to that post count when all they really are doing is spamming.
heheh reminds me of kona/zona
except they're actually fun ^^
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As someone with hardly any posts, I can't say that I've had that experience at TL. Perhaps you should more concerned with the quality of your posts than the number of posts made before them? I mean I was sorta all iffy on making posts at the start, then it sorta just ended up seeming like no big deal. A troll with thousands of posts still is a troll, and I haven't seen the bans to reflect any discrepancy in that. Of course, given my post count maybe I haven't had exposure to as extensive a sample of posts, but given your position it seems you haven't either xD
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I'll be honest, when I came here as a noob, I was really scared, and it turned out to completely awesome. I lurked here for a year without registering, and like, this was one of my first posts...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=118476
I had like four posts when I posted this. Post count didn't factor much except for a few posters at the beginning, who mostly got berated by the rest of the community.
Noobs don't have it harder then everyone else. Its just that veterans have it easier. Now that might seem like spinning the same thing the other way, but the difference is noobs don't have to display above average performance. They simply have to meet the required etiquette here on TL.net, to display that they're capable.
Obviously, someone with 5000 posts has been through it all. They are capable, so sometimes there allowed to just spam (<3?). But most of these members have also contributed tons of stuff to the community, from great threads to articles to tournys to just general good posting.
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You know, I just remembered a Bashiok quote (Bashiok is the best blizz CM ever <3) thats very relevant to this thread.
In response to someone basically complaining to what you're saying. "Why aren't these people being banned".
I wouldn't say I'm fine with what you're describing, but what I think actually exists is a culture of regular forum goers more or less knowing all there is to know. When someone comes in and brings up something that's sort of an old topic, maybe not a popular idea, or maybe info that's plainly obvious to the old timers, it's somewhat natural that they aren't going to be invitingly friendly every single time for months and months or years and years. They aren't being paid for customer service.
Remember, these forums don't revolve around you, and regulars...or hell, even the mods, unlike the blizzboards, are not being paid for there services. If you make a thread that someone has literally seen one hundred times, you can only expect them to reply courteously to a certain extent. Remember, ultimately, these people are here on Tl.net for personal enjoyment as well. They contribute a lot, for literally nothing, so its unreasonable to expect them to be super-nice all the time to someone who's basically disregarding the entire culture of TL.net out of ignorance or worse.
The D3 forums are amazingly managed despite its incredibly distant release date, and is probably the only blizzforum worth visiting. It has a great community of regulars like Risen and Friskydingo etc. Hell, its the only blizzforum that even has anything resembling a community.
All the other blizzboards ban with disregard for veterancy. Mods are more or less Nazis, except there only their on weekdays. They all happen to be shit.
If I have something I want to say, I don't want to have to make 1000 points beforehand, just to say it. That's really all I'm saying.
Anything worth saying requires exactly one post on Tl.net. If you need to make 1000 posts in order to express a certain opinion, find a new opinion or learn a better way to express it. Making good threads is something anyone can do.
Also you seem to be exaggerating. Yes, people with high post counts can sometimes act extremely sarcastic, vindictive, insulting, or belittling towards you if your being stupid. But they still can't just tell you to shut up, or "cool story bro" you.
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My only problem with the moderation here is that sometimes I'll write up some long reply to a shitty OP and by the time I'm ready to post it, the thread's already closed. My fault of course... you'd think I'd know by now when a thread is so bad it's not long for this forum.
I remember first reading Half's short post on roaches, and I just thought... "that makes a lot of sense." I don't even remember noticing his post count till someone mentioned it.
I also remember konadora's ascent to a high post-count. I think around that time, such regular and rapid translation of interviews and other content was pretty novel, so I remember that's how I first perceived him. When he made random, quick, some might say "spam" comments, I'd just think, "Oh it's Mr. translates every-interview-ever popping in for a word."
In all during my stay here I don't recall ever thinking, "Oh, that fella has a high post count but he practically never makes a post worth reading." In fact I felt the very opposite; I noticed a lot of posters who made interesting, compelling posts also sported high post counts.
On the other hand, I've seen many temp bans of posters who I'd normally associate with good behavior... but usually I'm too lazy to do the detective work to find the reason. I'll just have faith that the mods have good reasons, because I've never seen a "User was banned for this post." that I've disagreed with.
EDIT: Improper comma splice.
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if someone has lots of posts it means they have somehow managed to survive without being banned yet. Seems like a good heir-achy to me
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United States10328 Posts
On September 19 2010 12:46 intrigue wrote:
new posters are like puppies, like yeah they can be really cute and nice but if they aren't house trained they'll still shit all over the floor. now imagine a room full of nerdy puppies excited over the release of a popular pc game's sequel, spewing their wastes and dirtying their paws and spreading it everywhere, just everywhere like on the walls and windows and on your shirt and face. once it starts, there's no cleaning it up. that's why we are pretty strict with our rules - ultimately the only thing you need to do to not get banned is to be able to control your e-bowels.
this analogy is apt for the poster population as a whole, because older dogs are also quite prone to losing control of their various sphincters. but when a dog you really love makes a doo-doo, it's more like "aww you poor doggie you".
pure genius
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EPT
