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The teamliquid community is a very confusing place. It's welcoming at times, and then, at others, it's the shittiest place anyone with any opinion can go to. Part of the reason why it's so confusing is because of the really solid heirarchy, which basically goes like this:
1. Admins and actual Teamliquid members.
2. Mods
3. People who contribute a lot to the site. A.K.A meaningful blogs, etc.
4. People with lots of posts.
5. People with lots of posts.
6. People with a low amount of posts.
7. People with very low posts.
8. People who are newcomers to the site.
4-7 are where I have problems. The reason I have problems with 4-7 is that, quite a few times, the people with "lots of posts" got those posts from either
A. Trying to be wannabe mods.
B. Flaming others (refer to A)
C. 4 word posts. "Lol Cool story bro."
D. Flaming others (refer to A-B)
E. Trying to be mods.
Not saying that there aren't people with several meaningful posts, but really, this is what I've been seeing from a lot of the "veterans".
I don't like this system. I don't like how, just because I'm a bit newer to this community than someone else, my opinion all of a sudden is of less worth. You don't know what kind of person I am, and my post count definitely is not a direct reflection of myself.
I also have problems with some of the mods. Not saying all of you are bad but... Power abusers much? This is a blog so I feel like I can express my opinion when I say, wow... Some of the mods are the biggest trolls I have ever seen. You may contribute a bit to the site, but don't ruin your reputations by being so incredibly harsh to people. Yes, there are several people that deserve some of this harshness, but try to be reasonable with it.
The only way for a community to be seen as welcoming, is if it is actually welcoming. Teamliquid's a great site, but on the community side of things, it's EXTREMELY unwelcoming at times. I just wish it wasn't like this, and that there were ways for everyone to be able to express themselves equally, without the need for posts like, "Use the search function noob", or "cool story bro."
If I have something I want to say, I don't want to have to make 1000 points beforehand, just to say it. That's really all I'm saying.
 
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yeah, its an endless cycle
pissed off mods make harsh rules and ban people easily, then rules are "enforced," then the community takes up a drastically intolerant attitude and aren't very lenient to some people who don't really know their way around etc etc
EXAMPLE:
1. mod comes around, had a bad day
2. he abruptly closes a thread about something that has already been made
3. suddenly, the rest of the community (numbers 4-8 on your list) learns to be harsh to everyone who isn't highly resourceful or etc
ANOTHER EXAMPLE:
1. mod comes around, feelin a bit RAAGEy
2. bans someone who isn't completely on topic, or completely nice about things
3. rest of community feels obliged to shit on every little kid who isn't SRS BZNZ
yea sometimes it pisses me off too
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Have you ever been invited to a friend's friend's house to enjoy a party? Do you randomly decide to check out what's in all the drawers and eat the food randomly in the fridge? If you did that do you think the host would be happy? Now if his best friend did it, do you think his best friend would be as likely to be yelled at as you?
There's a reason posters of old get a bit more leeway.
1) they've already proven themselves to the community that they're not going to dick it over
2) they've been here longer and are thus generally older and thus more mature
Give some examples of people with high posts that are from 2005-2007 who got there from the reasons you posted. I'm pretty sure they are few and far inbetween.
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Yo thedeadhaji is about to answer a question about tl elitism so get on that shit.
Also the community in general became far more acidic after the launch of SC2 beta. Not because every BW vet hates sc2 and all it brings, but just because of the massive influx of uninformed disrespectful new posters. It's been a real strain on the mods to police so many new users, and unfortunately I agree with you that a lot of newer well intentioned posters are getting shut down in the splash damage.
TL was pretty tight nit for a long time. I only joined in 2009 after 2 years or so of lurking, yet even then the community was simply smaller. I think TL is just having some growing pains.
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I think if you take a look at the Ban List, you'd find that the vast vast majority are people who are newcomers. I think that it can be disheartening that newcomers are somewhat discriminated against, but at the same time thats actually where most of the problems with shitty posting is. I'm not saying all, but most. If you're still around by the time a couple years have gone by, there's usually a good reason for it...
Someone telling you use the search function isn't insulting you, its just telling you to use the search function before you make a news or related post... common sense that we don't want to clutter up the forums with stuff already posted. As far as I know, the "cool story bro" is being clamped down on, even among vets and I definitely don't see it as much as I used to...
I don't support all the elitism around tl... but some of it at least is warranted... kinda a "respect your elders" thing
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A and E are the samething in your second list. Also people with lots of posts are mentioned many times in a row.
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Also, perm bans aren't usually just one mod deciding "lulz BANTIMEZ", usually they talk it over and agree on it. I'm sure it's the same way in a lesser extent with temp bans.
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United States4053 Posts
On September 19 2010 11:46 TheEpicLolz wrote:
without the need for posts like, "Use the search function noob", or "cool story bro."
For the record, I think posts that contain only "cool story bro" are instant-ban.
I actually think level of contribution is more important in the hierarchy than post count, it's just that many people with high post counts have contributed in the past. I've seen excellent posts from people with 5 total post count, and I've seen utter garbage from people with posts in the thousands.
I think it's probably not about what the community can do for you, but what you can do for the community.
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Lastly, you don't have to have a lot of posts to be noticed.
For example, this one guy has 51 posts, he makes a blog and then suddenly lots of people respond with walls of text.
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On September 19 2010 12:01 LSB wrote:
Lastly, you don't have to have a lot of posts to be noticed.
For example, this one guy has 51 posts, he makes a blog and then suddenly lots of people respond with walls of text.
Oh you. 
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If you have trouble getting your point of view across, it probably has nothing to do with your post count and everything to do with you either being unable to express your views coherently or just having really bad ideas. It doesn't really matter if you have 10 or 10,000 posts, it's just more likely that by 10,000 posts you would have learned a thing or two or been banned well before that.
All I know about your posting is this blog expressing the flaws in a forum you have only briefly been apart of, and this blog which is awful and apparently was in the SC2 forum to begin with, making it even worse.
There might be a high correlation between low post counts and absolutely terrible posting, but most posters judge the content of your post rather than your post count, and pretty much all the mods are incredibly fair, sometimes to a fault (release the kraken please). So I can't say I agree with your criticisms
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Now I understand what you're trying to say, but from my experience on TL... TL was never about quantity, it was a small tight group of mature gamers. Teamliquids goal isn't to be the site that every single SC2 player goes to, it's where people with a serious love for the game go to.
TL is also a forum like no other. It's not your regular one like any other forum, it's much more than that. And therefore it has a hierchy, much like every single thing in life besides the ordinary forums. The reason your opinions are sometimes not valued so much, is because when you see 20 post people and most of them say stupid things, it's easy to assume their all like that.
Yes, starting is never easy, but as long as you contribute and stay active on the site for time you will get respect. Can you blame the admins to have shorty threads or posters in a site they have worked years to make so great. And the thousands of hours of time put in?... TL if anything is being too easy on the new guys, but hey! We don't want to scare them away, and some will smarten up, and as the game gets older you can expect the quality of the forums to increase.
Remember, one reason TL is as it is is because many members are players who have been playing SC1 close to 10 years and they have aged; starting while they were in their older teens.
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Well, you guys actually put some good points. I think the way Teamliquid works at the moment, elitism is the way to go. I still think that if there was just a tad bit more respect towards newer people trying to make a post, teamliquid would be a much better place.
For example, I created what in my opinion, was a reasonably lengthy Hotkeys thread on the SC2 forums. Not knowing that there may have been 5 other threads similar to it, I posted it. Instead of people focussing on the actual discussion being made, some could only care about the fact that "they've seen threads like it before."
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Oh btw Floor-exercise, this isn't the thread that was made in the SC2 forums. It was another one about reasons to switch from Terran to zerg, which I'll admit, was very immature of me to put in the SC2 forums.
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United States24772 Posts
On September 19 2010 11:46 TheEpicLolz wrote:
I don't like this system. I don't like how, just because I'm a bit newer to this community than someone else, my opinion all of a sudden is of less worth. You don't know what kind of person I am, and my post count definitely is not a direct reflection of myself.
Sorry to rain on your parade but this is pretty much how every community works. Some people become highly-respected very early. Perhaps you are not one of those people.
A lot of users do a lot of stupid things (some of which you pointed out), but there would be 5x as much without a lot of moderation... and there's of course always room for improvement to weed out more bad stuff.
Also you are similar to many users in that you probably think moderation of a huge community by a large team isn't incredibly difficult to do. Honestly I thought it was pretty easy until I saw how it works behind the scenes. The amount of documentation that goes into defending a request for a permanent ban is often comparable to the amount of documentation a modern-day teacher needs in order to fail a student. Just one example...
But one goal of tl is to figure out ways to make tl more accessible to newer users without dragging down quality standards for posting and discussion. Your voice is heard.
edit: please don't submit addendum's in the form of new posts... if there haven't been any posts by anyone else yet then just edit it into the bottom of your prior post...
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we need to all just read more and post less. this way u wont be making multiple threads with the same topic. also use the search thingy
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Micronesia, you also make a very good point. See, I like being able to discuss things; I don't mind people "raining on my parade" as long as they bring up a good point, and your point is valid. Moderation helps reduce the types of posts that I really dislike. However, moderation without prejudice is what I'm really getting at
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EPT
