• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:32
CEST 21:32
KST 04:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL47Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26
StarCraft 2
General
CN community: Firefly accused of suspicious activities Firefly do had match fixing The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Serious Question: Mech
Tourneys
$3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Mihu vs Korea Players Statistics BW General Discussion [BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals NA Team League 6/8/2025 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 2
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread What do you want from future RTS games? Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Cognitive styles x game perf…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 22470 users

Yet another Zerg player giving up TerranCraft - Page 2

Blogs > Integra
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
Bosu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3247 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-01 21:45:56
September 01 2010 21:44 GMT
#21
Reapers should be made useless and and SVC should be able to be hit entire time they are building bunker. As well as maybe increasing to 35 seconds. It would allow zerg to play a lot greedier and the effects would be seen into the late game. A cheaper overlord speed upgrade would be nice too.
#1 Kwanro Fan
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
September 01 2010 21:47 GMT
#22
On September 02 2010 01:13 Integra wrote:
Unless I vastly out expand Terran and manage to get ultralisks I'm dead in the late game so I see no point in continuing playing.


This sounds somewhat familiar... with maybe the defiler and cracklings missing.
Kenpachi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States9908 Posts
September 02 2010 01:38 GMT
#23
you should play vs me. my TvZ is my worst mu
Nada's body is South Korea's greatest weapon.
Glaven
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada554 Posts
September 02 2010 01:51 GMT
#24
On September 02 2010 10:38 Kenpachi wrote:
you should play vs me. my TvZ is my worst mu


Same lol (Random player though, for now). That being said, I do agree that too many zergs are unwilling to try new things to get ZvT to work for them. Wasn't zerg considered OP in beta at one point?
Special Tactics
Bosu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3247 Posts
September 02 2010 03:43 GMT
#25
On September 02 2010 10:51 Glaven wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2010 10:38 Kenpachi wrote:
you should play vs me. my TvZ is my worst mu


Same lol (Random player though, for now). That being said, I do agree that too many zergs are unwilling to try new things to get ZvT to work for them. Wasn't zerg considered OP in beta at one point?


At that point roaches were 1 food, thors didnt splash, and terran build orders were not fleshed out.
#1 Kwanro Fan
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28621 Posts
September 02 2010 03:46 GMT
#26
i like zvt the most of all matchups
Moderator
Shauni
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
4077 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-02 06:09:15
September 02 2010 06:07 GMT
#27
This is probably the worst whiny post I've ever read. Yes, Zerg slightly lacks diversity in early game. No, it's not imba. It's slightly tilted towards favoring Zerg in lategame, and relatively even early on. This retarded whine needs to stop, it happens every time a zerg loses to a Terran now, and it's because of ignorant people like you. Don't think you know everything just because you have 1200 points.
I'm taking whatever coverage I can get, because frankly, I'm busy working on this million dollar deal at my job. Early retirement is a good thing brotha man. - MessengerASL
Kashll
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1117 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-02 06:14:28
September 02 2010 06:12 GMT
#28
The reason zerg players are worse than terrans is that zergs spend half of their practice time whining on forums about imbalance.

But in all seriousness, yes we know ZvT is hard right now. If you don't have fun playing it then don't... I have a feeling that if you would loosen up a little and realize you probably have over a 50% win rate against terran (you said you're 1200+ so this is probably true) you would have more fun and play better.
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." - Aldous Huxley
Integra
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Sweden5626 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-02 07:13:32
September 02 2010 07:12 GMT
#29
On September 02 2010 06:14 GreatFall wrote:
Wait for the patch, maybe they will fix the game. That's what I'm doing as a Zerg player also. I stopped playing 1v1 until the patch. I did however beat brutal campaign last night woot! Now that's fun.


The single game campaign is prolly the biggest reason why I'm still playing SCII right now. It takes a really a long time to finish all missions on all difficulties and to get all the achievements. Blizzard really made the single player long lasting, fun and challenging.
"Dark Pleasure" | | I survived the Locust war of May 3, 2014
Divinek
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Canada4045 Posts
September 02 2010 07:52 GMT
#30
i wonder if this was what it was like in the korean community when boxer first beat yellow with those bunker rushes...
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Oh goodness me, FOX tv where do you get your sight? Can't you keep track, the puck is black. That's why the ice is white.
SubtleArt
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
2710 Posts
September 02 2010 13:15 GMT
#31
On September 02 2010 06:24 Sc1pio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2010 01:32 Slayer91 wrote:
I will. Of everything Z players whine about these days, 5% is stuff that might be a legitimate concern, 95% is stuff that's fine but Z players have an excuse for losing and end up stop trying against anything that's difficult..


Yeah this is the most confusing part of the current ZvT discussion: every zerg on TL has a different reason why the MU is imbalanced. I wrote a blog on it a while back and mostly got flamed for asking what the general consensus was on why they thought the MU was imbalanced.

I even think IdrA mentioned in an interview that after early game he was more comfortable playing ZvT than ZvP, though that may just be personal preference.


It's because they're convinced its imbalanced, and therefore anything that terran ever does to beat them is solely due to imbalance.
Morrow on ZvP: "I'm not very confident in general vs Protoss because of the imbalance (Yes its imbalanced, get over it)."
5unrise
Profile Joined May 2009
New Zealand646 Posts
September 02 2010 13:33 GMT
#32
On September 02 2010 01:44 Dente wrote:
Dear friend, the times where zvt was imbalanced are over. Pure mech gets destroyed by mass muta's and rine tank will get beaten by baneling/muta/speedling and I even got destroyed by a zerg on 3 base making ultras. Zergs are admitting that terran has to finnish them early game, or it's over for the terran. They are also admitting that zvt is actually easier then zvp. The only strong build for terran is 5rax reaper, and that's also stoppable.

There are a few zergs left who are indeed using old imbalance issues as excuses for losing. Banelings, ultras, broodlords, mutalisks: all awesome units.

I can say even more: when zergs figured out timings and ways to stop early terran harass, I don't see a terran winning against zerg.


This post is evidence of why it is pointless to start a discussion with a terran player involving TvZ balance, because they can't seem to accept the idea that sometimes when they win, it is not due to skill, but matchup imbalance
5unrise
Profile Joined May 2009
New Zealand646 Posts
September 02 2010 13:35 GMT
#33
On September 02 2010 15:12 Kashll wrote:
The reason zerg players are worse than terrans is that zergs spend half of their practice time whining on forums about imbalance.

But in all seriousness, yes we know ZvT is hard right now. If you don't have fun playing it then don't... I have a feeling that if you would loosen up a little and realize you probably have over a 50% win rate against terran (you said you're 1200+ so this is probably true) you would have more fun and play better.


Erm no that is not why zerg players are worse than terrans. yeah I post my opinions on TvZ, and also practice a shitload more too with at least 4 rl friends who play diamond Terran on a daily basis.
Sadistx
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
September 02 2010 14:17 GMT
#34
I would just recommend trying to play terran against top players if you can get some games with them. You might just change your mind after some Dimaga-like baneling flanks :p
OmniEulogy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada6592 Posts
September 04 2010 19:37 GMT
#35
On September 02 2010 16:52 Divinek wrote:
i wonder if this was what it was like in the korean community when boxer first beat yellow with those bunker rushes...


I don't know how many times I said the same thing. But I was thinking more of Blackman and Boxers m&m drops all over the map lol
LiquidDota Staff
ubiquitousnewt
Profile Joined August 2010
9 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-06 03:17:15
September 06 2010 02:48 GMT
#36
Yeah. The zerg doesn't even have as many abilities and options as they did in Broodwar, whereas Protoss has more, and a Terran has way more. That is why we're complaining. Zerg are a gimped race that Blizzard slapped together at the last second & crammed into SC2. It's notable that they didn't even take time to do a campaign map or two for them, just 25 Terran and 4 Protoss.

-Terrible scouting (No queen parasite, and changelling is a joke)
-Fragile units that aren't particularly cheap in either minerals/gas or food cap (Boo no dark swarm) Considering how bad zerglings are after midgame, you may as well give me 4 or 6 per egg. They're all gonna die anyway just getting my hydras in range.
-Lousy damage (No defiler plague & only one unit with bonus vs armor)
-Bad mobility (Hydralisk speed, Nydus worm screams & fragility, build on creep...Come to think, all these lame speed upgrades are amazingly inferior to stimpack, concussive shells...SIEGE MODE...)
-Bad air (No scourge, OLs can't detect, easy prey to vikings)
-Dreadful queen macro micromanagement. Spawn larva is the pits.
-Negligible wall-in ability
-A crummy caster with lame, easily countered spells. (You think 12-second NP or FG is all that? Compare please to forcefield, storm, or "nuke")
-No cliffjumping
-No cloaked attackers
-...Overall formulaic "just to try to survive" play.

Basically, a zerg player has almost no "tricks" up his sleeve aside from macro, macro, more macro (because too much macro won't get you killed AT ALL...) burying units (ooh, no one ever thought of THAT before!) and 1a-move. I kind of hate playing zerg now, but the Terrans are just too cheesy, and the protoss are too weird... you have to be so vastly much better than a Terran to beat him, it's ridiculous.

I think I'll take my silver ladder placement & beating the campaign on brutal for now, and stick to unrated matches for "fun," and by "fun" I mean Terran fun and me just keeping my geezerly APM up. As to caring how I perform? ...call me when the expansion comes out in 3 years and they manage to create a team as functional as it was in Broodwar circa 1998
reza
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada213 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-06 05:23:19
September 06 2010 05:20 GMT
#37
dude im ~800 - 900 diamond zerg and I feel the exact same way you do. I've actually stopped playing now and waiting for the MU to be fixed.
babolatt
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada312 Posts
September 06 2010 16:30 GMT
#38
I really can't comment on high level play as I am not a high level player. What I can comment on is this poisonous thinking that causes everyone in the community to think Terran is some unbeatable race and only losers play Terran. I played Terran honestly because I played a few single player missions and watched some ForceSC2Strategy videos (Force plays Terran) and just started playing multiplayer.

Again, I don't play at a high level but I do play, and I watch a LOT of high level games. What I do notice at my low level of play, is that in-game and on forums you get beat up non-stop for playing Terran. It's seriously almost to the point where you can't have a reasonable discussion about Terran strategy anywhere without it turning into a nerf terran or "You suck because you play Terran" conversation. I'm certain that any small imba issues are not causing low level players to lose vs Terran, but they certainly think it is due to these kinds of posts. Even at high level play, and even though I'm not a high level player, it appears as though any imbalance issues there might be are still responsible for a very small number of Zerg losses.

Day9 had a great explanation of this poisonous thinking in one of his dailies (I think it was a recent one, but can't remember) which I think really sums it up, so I'd recommend watching that if you haven't already.
"Alright, Lets poop out a daily" Day9
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 28m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 80
EnDerr 47
MindelVK 47
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 619
firebathero 157
Dewaltoss 90
yabsab 12
Movie 12
Counter-Strike
fl0m5996
olofmeister2208
rGuardiaN126
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King67
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu674
Other Games
tarik_tv47454
gofns19164
summit1g9105
Beastyqt709
ceh9548
mouzStarbuck404
B2W.Neo380
ArmadaUGS145
Pyrionflax105
ZombieGrub104
Trikslyr60
QueenE55
BRAT_OK 39
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream3349
Other Games
BasetradeTV101
StarCraft 2
angryscii 55
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 263
• Adnapsc2 36
• Reevou 2
• Dystopia_ 1
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki19
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21412
• Ler155
League of Legends
• TFBlade1290
Other Games
• imaqtpie1343
• Scarra585
• Shiphtur326
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 28m
Replay Cast
14h 28m
WardiTV Invitational
15h 28m
WardiTV Invitational
15h 28m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 4h
GSL Code S
1d 13h
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Online Event
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
GSL Code S
2 days
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Bunny
The PondCast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
OSC
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Cheesadelphia
4 days
GSL Code S
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.