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I recently switched from T to P. Its good fun, try it ! :O
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Maybe I'll do that. 4-5 gateway allin is always fun. I think it was CellaWeRRa that died to it 3 times in a row on his stream lol.
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If Zerg sucks in GSL Blizzard will finally fix this game
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I will. Of everything Z players whine about these days, 5% is stuff that might be a legitimate concern, 95% is stuff that's fine but Z players have an excuse for losing and end up stop trying against anything that's difficult..
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Calgary25977 Posts
On September 02 2010 01:32 Slayer91 wrote:
I will. Of everything Z players whine about these days, 5% is stuff that might be a legitimate concern, 95% is stuff that's fine but Z players have an excuse for losing and end up stop trying against anything that's difficult..
I tend to agree with this. Maybe it's because I play random so I can't be exploited too early, but I find ZvT and ZvP are some of my favourite matchups and I usually have great games playing them.
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Dear friend, the times where zvt was imbalanced are over. Pure mech gets destroyed by mass muta's and rine tank will get beaten by baneling/muta/speedling and I even got destroyed by a zerg on 3 base making ultras. Zergs are admitting that terran has to finnish them early game, or it's over for the terran. They are also admitting that zvt is actually easier then zvp. The only strong build for terran is 5rax reaper, and that's also stoppable.
There are a few zergs left who are indeed using old imbalance issues as excuses for losing. Banelings, ultras, broodlords, mutalisks: all awesome units.
I can say even more: when zergs figured out timings and ways to stop early terran harass, I don't see a terran winning against zerg.
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Once several ridiculous early game Terran builds are sorted, the MU isn't that bad.
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I switched from Terran to Zerg two weeks ago :x
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I actually really like ZvT. The only real trouble Zerg has against Terran is early reaper harassment. It's extremely tough to deal with until ling speed. The maps are also bad I suppose. Overall it's not THAT bad of a MU, still hard though.
ZvT on BW was hard too.
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Don't give up on the swarm! yes some things aren't balanced or fair, but you know what? at least you have self respect 
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If you don't enjoy playing zerg in ladder then don't.As a random I think terran has an advantage in TvZ but it's not that big.Personally the only thing that I actually really enjoy is infestor play in zvt .
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i personally feel terran is really gimmicky. all their units are glass cannons and when people learn how to stop all harass and such terran will start to feel under powered.
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Do play WoW by any chance?
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Do you use jumbo sized tampons by any chance?
Wait for patch 1.1 at least it's not as unbalanced as you would think, coming from a zerg player here.
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OP you're pretty impatient. Obviously the game's gonna get patched...if you really can't wait and would rather just abandon your preferred race then I don't know what to say.
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On September 02 2010 01:36 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 01:32 Slayer91 wrote:
I will. Of everything Z players whine about these days, 5% is stuff that might be a legitimate concern, 95% is stuff that's fine but Z players have an excuse for losing and end up stop trying against anything that's difficult.. I tend to agree with this. Maybe it's because I play random so I can't be exploited too early, but I find ZvT and ZvP are some of my favourite matchups and I usually have great games playing them.
I second this. It seems that anytime a Zerg player loses vs Terran he always blames the game, and we eventually get counter productive complaints asking for a nerf on anything that they ever lose to.
I actually find ZvT really fun too, especially when they use marine marauder as their core army. Infestor + ling + bling is probably as entertaining and exciting as the game gets right now :D
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On September 02 2010 01:30 village_idiot wrote:
If Zerg sucks in GSL Blizzard will finally fix this game
The funny thing is that in the Korean league, Zergs have actually decided to become proactive and are doing quite well despite the constant whining overseas (see melodramatic OP for a prime example). It'll be interesting to see how it plays out, but I'm fairly certain top zerg players are looking forward to a patch of utter zerg dominance.
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Wait for the patch, maybe they will fix the game. That's what I'm doing as a Zerg player also. I stopped playing 1v1 until the patch. I did however beat brutal campaign last night woot! Now that's fun.
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On September 02 2010 01:32 Slayer91 wrote:
I will. Of everything Z players whine about these days, 5% is stuff that might be a legitimate concern, 95% is stuff that's fine but Z players have an excuse for losing and end up stop trying against anything that's difficult..
Yeah this is the most confusing part of the current ZvT discussion: every zerg on TL has a different reason why the MU is imbalanced. I wrote a blog on it a while back and mostly got flamed for asking what the general consensus was on why they thought the MU was imbalanced.
I even think IdrA mentioned in an interview that after early game he was more comfortable playing ZvT than ZvP, though that may just be personal preference.
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Reapers should be made useless and and SVC should be able to be hit entire time they are building bunker. As well as maybe increasing to 35 seconds. It would allow zerg to play a lot greedier and the effects would be seen into the late game. A cheaper overlord speed upgrade would be nice too.
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On September 02 2010 01:13 Integra wrote:
Unless I vastly out expand Terran and manage to get ultralisks I'm dead in the late game so I see no point in continuing playing.
This sounds somewhat familiar... with maybe the defiler and cracklings missing.
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you should play vs me. my TvZ is my worst mu
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On September 02 2010 10:38 Kenpachi wrote:
you should play vs me. my TvZ is my worst mu
Same lol (Random player though, for now). That being said, I do agree that too many zergs are unwilling to try new things to get ZvT to work for them. Wasn't zerg considered OP in beta at one point?
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On September 02 2010 10:51 Glaven wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 10:38 Kenpachi wrote:
you should play vs me. my TvZ is my worst mu Same lol (Random player though, for now). That being said, I do agree that too many zergs are unwilling to try new things to get ZvT to work for them. Wasn't zerg considered OP in beta at one point?
At that point roaches were 1 food, thors didnt splash, and terran build orders were not fleshed out.
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Norway28623 Posts
i like zvt the most of all matchups
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This is probably the worst whiny post I've ever read. Yes, Zerg slightly lacks diversity in early game. No, it's not imba. It's slightly tilted towards favoring Zerg in lategame, and relatively even early on. This retarded whine needs to stop, it happens every time a zerg loses to a Terran now, and it's because of ignorant people like you. Don't think you know everything just because you have 1200 points.
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The reason zerg players are worse than terrans is that zergs spend half of their practice time whining on forums about imbalance.
But in all seriousness, yes we know ZvT is hard right now. If you don't have fun playing it then don't... I have a feeling that if you would loosen up a little and realize you probably have over a 50% win rate against terran (you said you're 1200+ so this is probably true) you would have more fun and play better.
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On September 02 2010 06:14 GreatFall wrote:
Wait for the patch, maybe they will fix the game. That's what I'm doing as a Zerg player also. I stopped playing 1v1 until the patch. I did however beat brutal campaign last night woot! Now that's fun.
The single game campaign is prolly the biggest reason why I'm still playing SCII right now. It takes a really a long time to finish all missions on all difficulties and to get all the achievements. Blizzard really made the single player long lasting, fun and challenging.
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i wonder if this was what it was like in the korean community when boxer first beat yellow with those bunker rushes...
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On September 02 2010 06:24 Sc1pio wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 01:32 Slayer91 wrote:
I will. Of everything Z players whine about these days, 5% is stuff that might be a legitimate concern, 95% is stuff that's fine but Z players have an excuse for losing and end up stop trying against anything that's difficult.. Yeah this is the most confusing part of the current ZvT discussion: every zerg on TL has a different reason why the MU is imbalanced. I wrote a blog on it a while back and mostly got flamed for asking what the general consensus was on why they thought the MU was imbalanced. I even think IdrA mentioned in an interview that after early game he was more comfortable playing ZvT than ZvP, though that may just be personal preference.
It's because they're convinced its imbalanced, and therefore anything that terran ever does to beat them is solely due to imbalance.
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On September 02 2010 01:44 Dente wrote:
Dear friend, the times where zvt was imbalanced are over. Pure mech gets destroyed by mass muta's and rine tank will get beaten by baneling/muta/speedling and I even got destroyed by a zerg on 3 base making ultras. Zergs are admitting that terran has to finnish them early game, or it's over for the terran. They are also admitting that zvt is actually easier then zvp. The only strong build for terran is 5rax reaper, and that's also stoppable.
There are a few zergs left who are indeed using old imbalance issues as excuses for losing. Banelings, ultras, broodlords, mutalisks: all awesome units.
I can say even more: when zergs figured out timings and ways to stop early terran harass, I don't see a terran winning against zerg.
This post is evidence of why it is pointless to start a discussion with a terran player involving TvZ balance, because they can't seem to accept the idea that sometimes when they win, it is not due to skill, but matchup imbalance
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On September 02 2010 15:12 Kashll wrote:
The reason zerg players are worse than terrans is that zergs spend half of their practice time whining on forums about imbalance.
But in all seriousness, yes we know ZvT is hard right now. If you don't have fun playing it then don't... I have a feeling that if you would loosen up a little and realize you probably have over a 50% win rate against terran (you said you're 1200+ so this is probably true) you would have more fun and play better.
Erm no that is not why zerg players are worse than terrans. yeah I post my opinions on TvZ, and also practice a shitload more too with at least 4 rl friends who play diamond Terran on a daily basis.
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I would just recommend trying to play terran against top players if you can get some games with them. You might just change your mind after some Dimaga-like baneling flanks :p
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On September 02 2010 16:52 Divinek wrote:
i wonder if this was what it was like in the korean community when boxer first beat yellow with those bunker rushes...
I don't know how many times I said the same thing. But I was thinking more of Blackman and Boxers m&m drops all over the map lol
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Yeah. The zerg doesn't even have as many abilities and options as they did in Broodwar, whereas Protoss has more, and a Terran has way more. That is why we're complaining. Zerg are a gimped race that Blizzard slapped together at the last second & crammed into SC2. It's notable that they didn't even take time to do a campaign map or two for them, just 25 Terran and 4 Protoss.
-Terrible scouting (No queen parasite, and changelling is a joke)
-Fragile units that aren't particularly cheap in either minerals/gas or food cap (Boo no dark swarm) Considering how bad zerglings are after midgame, you may as well give me 4 or 6 per egg. They're all gonna die anyway just getting my hydras in range.
-Lousy damage (No defiler plague & only one unit with bonus vs armor)
-Bad mobility (Hydralisk speed, Nydus worm screams & fragility, build on creep...Come to think, all these lame speed upgrades are amazingly inferior to stimpack, concussive shells...SIEGE MODE...)
-Bad air (No scourge, OLs can't detect, easy prey to vikings)
-Dreadful queen macro micromanagement. Spawn larva is the pits.
-Negligible wall-in ability
-A crummy caster with lame, easily countered spells. (You think 12-second NP or FG is all that? Compare please to forcefield, storm, or "nuke")
-No cliffjumping
-No cloaked attackers
-...Overall formulaic "just to try to survive" play.
Basically, a zerg player has almost no "tricks" up his sleeve aside from macro, macro, more macro (because too much macro won't get you killed AT ALL...) burying units (ooh, no one ever thought of THAT before!) and 1a-move. I kind of hate playing zerg now, but the Terrans are just too cheesy, and the protoss are too weird... you have to be so vastly much better than a Terran to beat him, it's ridiculous.
I think I'll take my silver ladder placement & beating the campaign on brutal for now, and stick to unrated matches for "fun," and by "fun" I mean Terran fun and me just keeping my geezerly APM up. As to caring how I perform? ...call me when the expansion comes out in 3 years and they manage to create a team as functional as it was in Broodwar circa 1998
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dude im ~800 - 900 diamond zerg and I feel the exact same way you do. I've actually stopped playing now and waiting for the MU to be fixed.
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I really can't comment on high level play as I am not a high level player. What I can comment on is this poisonous thinking that causes everyone in the community to think Terran is some unbeatable race and only losers play Terran. I played Terran honestly because I played a few single player missions and watched some ForceSC2Strategy videos (Force plays Terran) and just started playing multiplayer.
Again, I don't play at a high level but I do play, and I watch a LOT of high level games. What I do notice at my low level of play, is that in-game and on forums you get beat up non-stop for playing Terran. It's seriously almost to the point where you can't have a reasonable discussion about Terran strategy anywhere without it turning into a nerf terran or "You suck because you play Terran" conversation. I'm certain that any small imba issues are not causing low level players to lose vs Terran, but they certainly think it is due to these kinds of posts. Even at high level play, and even though I'm not a high level player, it appears as though any imbalance issues there might be are still responsible for a very small number of Zerg losses.
Day9 had a great explanation of this poisonous thinking in one of his dailies (I think it was a recent one, but can't remember) which I think really sums it up, so I'd recommend watching that if you haven't already.
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EPT
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