• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:32
CEST 15:32
KST 22:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists22
Community News
Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event11Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced9
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) 2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers $1,400 SEL Season 3 Ladder Invitational
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion AI Question Using AI to optimize marketing campaigns [ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors Why there arent any 256x256 pro maps?
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV OutLive 25 (RTS Game) Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Movie Stars In Video Games: …
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1466 users

Non-dualism

Blogs > ShaperofDreams
Post a Reply
ShaperofDreams
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada2492 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-30 21:46:17
August 30 2010 21:43 GMT
#1
This is an email that i just wrote for someone. I found it very fun to write about so I'm deciding to post it here too.

It's a response to someone who wants philosophy asking me what I read.


For the reading material I recommend "I Am that". It's a recorded conversation between a bunch of people from a lot of different places with a famous Yogi (enlightened non-dualist). It's very dense but if you read it well and a few times it guaranteed WILL change your life for the better.

You have to be a pretty introspective\philosophical person to "get" it though. i have attempted describing it to some people and its like speaking to a wall. I'm pretty confident in you though judging by your blog\writing.

Also its important to understand that all of the religious phrases in there are analogies\metaphors. God = the universe\everything that is\isn't.

It's also important to have a good understanding of language of human paradox and ideas. The way we think and the way our language is set up makes us constantly contradict ourselves simply because no thinking machine can comprehend "everything" just like we cannot actually comprehend the number 1 billion.

Our way of thought is just a system of paradoxes created and used to explain the incomprehensible.

I will attempt to explain the universe to you as a diagram

Imagine a beam of light being projected through a film, to show up as an image on a screen:

---------------|---------------------------------|


--light ray--the film--modified light ray--screen--

The ray of light is everything that is or isn't. Simply everything. The world.

The film is the human mind. The machine that we use to filter the ray of light and create an image\perception.

The screen that holds this resulting projection is the Personal World. Life as you perceive it. Life out of context. Life full of suffering and of joy. The constant tennis match between pain and pleasure.

Why isn't the screen true to the ray of light passing through? The human mind is always contradicting itself, it can't comprehend the whole so it looks at details.

Once you understand that you cannot trust your own mind or opinion at all it frees you in a way. I became even more introspective. Studying the prison I had built around myself.

I could go on forever but it would be redundant if you read the book. I hope this babble brings some interesting brainstorm material for you as you read.

You can google "i am that" and the first result will be a free online book.


I hope you take this seriously and actually read the book, i accidentally put a lot of effort into writing this. whatever it was fun.

peace

Bitches don't know about my overlord. FUCK OFF ALDARIS I HAVE ENOUGH PYLONS. My Balls are as smooth as Eggs.
Sleight
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
2471 Posts
August 30 2010 21:55 GMT
#2
You are delving into the pretty established Buddhist understanding of existence.

The 'self' does not exist in a traditional sense. The term "I" is only true in a convenient sense, that there is a certain individuality to each's experience, but not in the sense that there is any "you"-ness to who "you" are.

We all know what a river is, but there is no "river"-ness to it. Such is human existence. There is nothing eternal or unchanging about the river, it continues to run, but it is impermanent and dynamic.

Eternalists say that the self/soul is infinite and they are wrong, for we can look around and see that every day we are in a flux of what makes us who we are.

Nihilists say that the self/soul is nothing and they are wrong too, for we can look around and see that things exist unto themselves.

Each person is the sum of their karmic trajectory, their causes, conditions, and all of those around them. That is the essential understanding to moving forward with the non-dualism of our existence. To try and skip ahead and discuss how we perceive life is challenging without first accepting that there is no 'self' and there is not "no self".

One Love
ShaperofDreams
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada2492 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-30 22:19:48
August 30 2010 22:17 GMT
#3
Thanks Sleight I'm interested in getting a little community thread for this type of discussion. I know at least a few TLers that are into non-dualism.

I'm happy about the word "flux" that you gave me. I've been looking for that forever

edit: i really like talking and discussing this stuff with people because in a way we are practicing it. its like meditative introspection with more minds and experiences to work with\analyze.
Bitches don't know about my overlord. FUCK OFF ALDARIS I HAVE ENOUGH PYLONS. My Balls are as smooth as Eggs.
ella_guru
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada1741 Posts
August 30 2010 22:32 GMT
#4
I think that the things philosophy talks about aren't meant to be talked about. It is very interesting, but it seems in general those who knew the most of what these things speak about , spoke the least about them, likely because they knew words fail the human experience.

I encourage you to do what you like though!
Each day gets better : )
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
August 31 2010 00:35 GMT
#5
I just got around to reading Plato. Specifically, his dialogue on the nature of knowledge. I highly recommend it. (Theaetetus)

There's also the shadows in a cave analogy. Plato says, yes, there is some river-ness to a river; in fact, that is what we must seek to define about the river.
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
August 31 2010 01:11 GMT
#6
The river thing is an idiom Heraclitus used.
Sleight
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
2471 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-31 01:53:12
August 31 2010 01:51 GMT
#7
On August 31 2010 07:32 ella_guru wrote:
I think that the things philosophy talks about aren't meant to be talked about. It is very interesting, but it seems in general those who knew the most of what these things speak about , spoke the least about them, likely because they knew words fail the human experience.

I encourage you to do what you like though!


There are only a few questions the Buddha would not answer, for they are unable to be explained without creating misunderstanding. This is not one of them and quite essential to Right View.

I just got around to reading Plato. Specifically, his dialogue on the nature of knowledge. I highly recommend it. (Theaetetus)

There's also the shadows in a cave analogy. Plato says, yes, there is some river-ness to a river; in fact, that is what we must seek to define about the river.


Plato is clearly in exact opposition. It is a classic sutra, where the monk Nagasena and the Greek King Milinda have a open debate and we can show that there can be no innate essence to anything. Plato's ideas are weak and fall quite clearly in a rationale debate on the issue. The whole notion of things existing beyond the mind's notion is quite ludicrous philosophically and even the most basic of today's science answers the whole debate quickly.

For sake of argument, I will just answer you as Nagasena did the Greek King, long before Plato was even a gleam in his ancestor's eye.

"Does the carriage make a chariot? Do the wheels make a chariot? Does having just a carriage, axle, wheels, flag, and so forth make a chariot? Is it only a chariot in certain combination of carriage, axles, wheels, flag, and so forth? What is it then without the flag? Without the reins? Clearly, the chariot is only a name which we have given to an idea, a representation of something for sake of convenience. Who are you so afraid of that you lie, Great King, for clearly there is no thing innately a chariot which can be found here."
One Love
ella_guru
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada1741 Posts
August 31 2010 02:10 GMT
#8
On August 31 2010 10:51 Sleight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2010 07:32 ella_guru wrote:
I think that the things philosophy talks about aren't meant to be talked about. It is very interesting, but it seems in general those who knew the most of what these things speak about , spoke the least about them, likely because they knew words fail the human experience.

I encourage you to do what you like though!


There are only a few questions the Buddha would not answer, for they are unable to be explained without creating misunderstanding. This is not one of them and quite essential to Right View.

Show nested quote +
I just got around to reading Plato. Specifically, his dialogue on the nature of knowledge. I highly recommend it. (Theaetetus)

There's also the shadows in a cave analogy. Plato says, yes, there is some river-ness to a river; in fact, that is what we must seek to define about the river.


Plato is clearly in exact opposition. It is a classic sutra, where the monk Nagasena and the Greek King Milinda have a open debate and we can show that there can be no innate essence to anything. Plato's ideas are weak and fall quite clearly in a rationale debate on the issue. The whole notion of things existing beyond the mind's notion is quite ludicrous philosophically and even the most basic of today's science answers the whole debate quickly.

For sake of argument, I will just answer you as Nagasena did the Greek King, long before Plato was even a gleam in his ancestor's eye.

"Does the carriage make a chariot? Do the wheels make a chariot? Does having just a carriage, axle, wheels, flag, and so forth make a chariot? Is it only a chariot in certain combination of carriage, axles, wheels, flag, and so forth? What is it then without the flag? Without the reins? Clearly, the chariot is only a name which we have given to an idea, a representation of something for sake of convenience. Who are you so afraid of that you lie, Great King, for clearly there is no thing innately a chariot which can be found here."


Already we deviate from the truth!
Each day gets better : )
exeexe
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Denmark937 Posts
August 31 2010 02:24 GMT
#9
this is why ghosts exist.-
And never forget, its always easier to throw a bomb downstairs than up. - George Orwell
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
11:00
Wardi Spring Cup
SHIN vs Nicoract
Solar vs Nice
WardiTV747
TKL 211
Rex128
LiquipediaDiscussion
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #130 (TLMC 22 Edition)
herO vs ByuNLIVE!
CranKy Ducklings184
CranKy Ducklings SOOP59
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko398
TKL 211
Rex 128
Vindicta 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 57864
Calm 8287
Bisu 3285
Horang2 1218
Mini 587
Light 568
EffOrt 539
actioN 488
ggaemo 339
Soma 281
[ Show more ]
ZerO 248
Hyun 173
Zeus 157
Leta 123
Sharp 102
Pusan 96
hero 94
Mind 82
PianO 68
ToSsGirL 67
Killer 63
Aegong 63
Hm[arnc] 41
sSak 31
Shinee 29
Movie 26
Backho 24
sorry 23
IntoTheRainbow 22
Bale 18
JulyZerg 17
Sacsri 15
Rock 11
Terrorterran 11
Icarus 10
GoRush 10
ajuk12(nOOB) 9
zelot 8
SilentControl 6
Counter-Strike
olofmeister3074
zeus854
byalli658
allub279
markeloff265
kRYSTAL_32
edward6
Other Games
singsing2176
B2W.Neo1129
hiko709
Mew2King116
monkeys_forever112
ArmadaUGS79
QueenE48
Hui .25
ZerO(Twitch)10
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream56
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 17
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade1591
Other Games
• WagamamaTV353
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
10h 28m
GSL
19h 58m
Classic vs Cure
Maru vs Rogue
GSL
1d 19h
SHIN vs Zoun
ByuN vs herO
OSC
1d 21h
OSC
1d 23h
Replay Cast
2 days
Escore
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Zoun vs Ryung
Lambo vs ShoWTimE
OSC
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
SHIN vs Bunny
ByuN vs Shameless
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Krystianer vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Rogue
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
BSL
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Cure vs Zoun
Clem vs Lambo
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
BSL
5 days
GSL
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-02
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W6
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.