I think the comparison is terrible. In ZvT the Zerg has these things called mutalisks that can keep the Terran honest- it is entirely possible for the Terran to screw their micro/timings up early and die or put themselves at a severe disadvantage. This rarely happens in SC2 PvT, at least against decent opponents. Furthermore, they had this little guy called the lurker- 2 of those could annihilate an entire Terran army if they weren't careful, or at the very least delay them for an eternity (sentry casting forcefield on a ramp does not exactly count). Protoss has nothing comparable to either of those units. There's so many fewer opportunities for the Terran to completely botch their micro and get punished for it.

Edit: In fact, I kind of think you have it backwards- perfect play rewards Terran far more than it rewards Zerg on the whole, especially early on. Which is why T>Z for the most part. It's only later when dark swarm and plague can swing the tide that that changes.

Floophead_III

United States1832 Posts

August 22 2010 19:19 GMT

#22

Victor you just need to make voidrays from 3 proxied stargates and win.

TvP sucks.

SCC-Faust

United States3736 Posts

August 22 2010 19:27 GMT

#23

I don't even use Void Rays anymore. Terrans mostly 1/1/1 these days.

And like, vikings out range Voids. Pretty badly. With slight micro you can kill many Void Rays with one Viking. That and they can get out of the Void Ray's ray once in it, since the Viking moves faster than the Void Ray without the upgrade in Fleet Beacon.

WarChimp

Australia943 Posts

August 22 2010 19:35 GMT

#24

On August 23 2010 02:47 T0fuuu wrote:
what ? you are in hk? i thought you played on the american servers though S:

anyways.DONT BUY A SEA ACCOUNT the entire server is going to move to the us server in a month so dont waste your money unless your immediate friends will only play on SEA server. SEA accounts will get access to north america very soon.

Actually do buy a sea account, that way you get 2 free accounts

SEA for practice, and US for serious gaming. There will still be people on SEA. Besides, my mates can play my SEA account?

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

August 22 2010 20:30 GMT

#25

On August 23 2010 02:00 Djzapz wrote:
Basically, what you're saying is a protoss needs to play 'perfectly' to beat a terran who doesn't.

My thoughts exactly.

This is what bothers me about SC2 discussion these days.

Someone always is intent on turning an extremely helpful and well-thought-out thread that is deliberately NOT a balance discussion into a balance discussion.

Netherlands12045 Posts

August 22 2010 21:20 GMT

#26

On August 23 2010 04:27 SCC-Faust wrote:
I don't even use Void Rays anymore. Terrans mostly 1/1/1 these days.

And like, vikings out range Voids. Pretty badly. With slight micro you can kill many Void Rays with one Viking. That and they can get out of the Void Ray's ray once in it, since the Viking moves faster than the Void Ray without the upgrade in Fleet Beacon.

who said T going 1/1/1 these days? all of them abusing medivac drop bio with stim sniping nexus

also getting 1 VR to force T getting 2 viking instead of to medivac is worthed. you always can switch back to chrono gates.

the fact that Protoss need to play perfect to beat a normal Terran is so common. The tanks AI improved and marauder stim make T almost easy mode. Try to check every Terran players on the wolf cup today, even silver(once beat idra) has 3 scvs queue up at around 50 foods early on and you call it macro?

PokePill

United States1048 Posts

August 23 2010 01:24 GMT

#27

PvT is kind of like no other matchup. In Brood War superior mechanics, micro, and everything else actually matter and *gasp you can outplay the other player. In Starcraft 2 a 60 apm 12 year old can execute an optimally and perfectly timed 3 rax / 4 rax / etc attack with perfect precision.

For the protoss, perfect micro, macro and decision making are irrelevant, because you can still lose playing perfect. It's basically a balancing of act between being able to taking your natural (if you can even take it) and having the exact army composition necessary to stop their attack move. If you literally are too heavy on stalkers, you lose no matter how you micro or what you do. If you have 1 immortal too many, you lose.

Being able to assess what units you need exactly, when you can push and defend or take your expansion is an impossible mathematical equation that takes hundreds of hours of play, and is a testament to how good players like HuK, White-Ra and other top Protosses are. All that effort to just be able to be on par with mediocre Terrans is quite a testament to their dedication. For the rest of us with jobs and other things occupying our time, we are completely unable to get anywhere near the experience required to be able to figure out these timings and assess decisions on the fly. We are left in the gutter with TvZ dwarfing the reality of our predicament.

Antimage

Canada1293 Posts

August 23 2010 01:58 GMT

#28

On August 23 2010 02:00 Djzapz wrote:
Basically, what you're saying is a protoss needs to play 'perfectly' to beat a terran who doesn't.

My thoughts exactly.

So? It takes more skill to PvT at the same level of the terran player. SC1 was balanced like that too, and you didn't see anyone complain that much about it.

It will take longer to develop the same gamesense and decision making skills as top protoss players, but I suggest that until you make it to the very top where you really feel the imbalance where you absolutely CANNOT do anything to match the terran player, don't complain about imba.

Keep improving, keep playing, and if terran does get a nerf (which I think they will mainly b/c of TvZ), PvT will be even easier, more fun and more forgiving.

FragKrag

United States11556 Posts

August 23 2010 02:31 GMT

#29

I really second that flanking part. Flanking is absolutely AMAZING in PvT just like it was in BW. For some reason I think so many Protoss devolved into 1a style without trying to flank even though it was ingrained into the Protoss players in BW. MMM is much more mobile, but getting zealots mixed in those marauders is absolutely devastating for the terran player because his micro is going to be harder and he's going to get hit much more.

I'm not quite sure how to use force fields in PvT yet so I usually don't use them in battles. Whenever I try to forcefield I just end up force fielding my zealots off T_T