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Active: 1797 users

PvZ - "How to" for toss

Blogs > Qzy
Post a Reply
Qzy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Denmark1121 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-19 01:23:00
August 19 2010 00:22 GMT
#1
Okay! 2nd entry into my blog.

Today I'll post about PvZ, a classic encounter, where macro is key to victory.

Enjoy reading!


[image loading]
You really do look more feminine with wings!


The plan
[image loading]
A simple, straight forward plan!


The plan is to beat the zerg at his own game - The macro!
If you can stay equal base count compared to the zerg, you will most likely win the game.

My build order is pretty easy to remember
9 pylon,
12 gate,
14 gas,
15-16 pylon
Core, when gate finishes
2nd gas when core half done.
Gate
Robotics facility
Expo!
60-70 get 2x forge and chronoboost +1/+1.
Robotics bay
Get second robotics facility

There's a few deviations, and we'll get to those!

The initial scout
Send scout out, find his base (duh? :D), and estimate when his pool did go down (or goes down), and notice if his natural expo is already up. In case it's up, he shouldn't have any zerglings out yet to harass your probe.

If there's no expo, you should hide the probe close by to check if it goes up at 20-25. Keep checking back if it's going up - in case you hit 30ish food, and it's not up, you gotta start fearing an early bust, therefore deviate from the build and throw down additional gates and chronoboost your army out (now it's about survival!).

Remember I told you to look at the pool? In case it's already up, when your probe arrives, it's a very early pool (or you are on a VERY big map, and found him last ) - in this case chronoboost a few zealots out and be ready for early zerglings. Don't be scared to loose a few probes to his lings, as his economy is very low.

Don't be afraid of giving up map control to the zerg - that's what they do! .

Expand!
We'll continue the "how to", with the mind set that the zerg has expanded to his natural expo.

If you don't expand, they zerg will simply overrun you in a matter of minutes. By now you should have:

2 gates
your core doing the research for gateways
Robotics facility

Your minerals should start building and it's time to expand. While building your second nexus, chronoboost out an observer and check his unit composition as well as amount of drones at his expansion.

If he has a huge army (one you feel you can't beat) as well as very few drones at his expo, you need to start producing units instead of probes - and vice versa; if he has a small army, you need to mass chronoboost out probes.

If he has 1-2 zerglings in front of your expo, show aggression! Fake a move out, and make him throw down spine crawlers and build army units. Zergs might have map control, but they are blind within your base and fears a hidden 4 gate push. Any sign of aggression and they'll curl up and look angry at you.

[image loading]


The more minerals he spends on spine crawlers, the more you get ahead economy wise.

Should he have a huge army with lots of roaches, you should chronoboost out some immortals instead of going directly to those colossus. If he's going hydra we are happy and should put up Robotics facility.

Constantly keep can eye out where he expands, and how many expansions he's getting! Your observer can't be everywhere at once, so get additional! One to follow his army, one to run around searching for expoes and a last one to stay with your army.

Mutas
In case you scout mutas, the build changes. You need a bit less colossus, research blink right away. Get a few more stalkers into your composition, and remember cannons at your mineral line at all time. Don't over do cannon, only 2-4 per mineral line.

Don't be afraid that he will attack your mineral line as you move out - he will, but once you reach his base he has to support his weak ground army - that's when you got him. Sentry shielding is very strong against mutas and reduces even the bouncing attacks to a minimum.

But generally stick to the plan and still get some colossus for the zerglings, as your stalkers are weak against them.

Upgrades are finishing
Throw down Twillight counsil as +1/+1 finishes and get +2/+2. Chronoboost it out - if you keep chronoboosting, your +2/+2 should hit very fast compared to the zergs upgrades.

You might not think upgrades are THAT important for protoss, since we only have a few (but very powerful) units - but they are! Colossus literally rips through zerg ground army with +2/+2.

When you hit 160-170 food, you should be having +2/+2, and 2-3 expansions, a lot of colossus as well as stalkers to get those corrupters off your colossus.

I have yet to see an roach/hydra/corrupter composition that could take down this build. If the zerg leaves you un-harassed, you'll run over him.

Last notes
Building placement is a vital thing in PvZ, not only to avoid baneling bust, but also to avoid zergling run through. There's nothing worse than to move out with your army, and see 30 zerglings run into your mineral line. I can't count how many times this has happend - therefore WALL OFF completely. If he's going mutas, you should get blink and therefore walling off isn't a problem - and colossus loves walking over walls.

Tech switching is vital in the end game vs. zerg. If he brings out broodlords you go blink and use all your stalkers to take him down. If he goes ultras (and he should! As stalkers are armored) you need to start crying... No I'm kidding, you need to micro blink and hope for the best. If you can't manage with your current army, try and get some immortals out, as they do A LOT of damage to armored units such as ultras.

So this works every time - right?
Yes!

No. Of course there's counters and weaknesses to every build. Mid-early game, this build depends on good scouting, if you are denied scouting you can be in big trouble until your observer comes out.

Mutas harass can be a big problem for me, due to my low apm, but that's a general problem for me and not just attached to the build.

Replays
Notice my apm is not 150+, it's actually near average 80-100 (at the top if it's an intense match)

[url blocked] - A close match due to early aggression, but notice it's because he's cutting probes. The pirate talk threw him off his game?
[url blocked] - This guy has 400 games played in retail, rank 7 diamond, and yet he doesn't go beyond 2 bases. It's the general flaw zerg players has - to beat this strat you need to do the exact opposite... Expand like crazy! I'm a bit late on upgrades in this match, due to his mid game attack.


Again, thanks to Pebble for all the help in loosing all our practice matches and generally being a noob. (<3 )



***
TG Sambo... Intel classic! Life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
Pebble
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany326 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-19 00:37:03
August 19 2010 00:36 GMT
#2
Yea, that's one style to try to power a zerg down. 2 gate opening is very strong and you don't set yourself at a disadvantage at all going 2 gate. You might wanna add that. 2 Gate into FE with some minor mid-game push is very fearsome because the Z will always have the disadvantage.

edit: Forgot to say that this guide actually provides some insight and is well written!
3:50 PM jaedung: scouting is useless in sc2
JTP
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden34 Posts
August 19 2010 00:37 GMT
#3
Nice, will try this.
chichilling sådär för alla vet vem han är jtp är du vet chichilling sådär ?
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
August 19 2010 00:38 GMT
#4
Yeah, very strong build that I like to use pretty often
TeabagInsurance
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada320 Posts
August 19 2010 00:48 GMT
#5
awww I was hoping this was for BW

i really wish people would label it in their titles :<
Tired of getting teabagged? Get your teabag insurance today!
Qzy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Denmark1121 Posts
August 19 2010 00:53 GMT
#6
On August 19 2010 09:48 TeabagInsurance wrote:
awww I was hoping this was for BW

i really wish people would label it in their titles :<


I'm sorry sir, I'll try and label it in the future - no need to give it 1 star, just due to a mislabel.
TG Sambo... Intel classic! Life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
TeabagInsurance
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada320 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-19 01:04:25
August 19 2010 00:55 GMT
#7
what makes you think i gave it a 1 star? here, i'll give you a 5 star :S

edit: It is a nice guide, well done, I was just slightly disappointed it wasn't for BW since I play P in BW but not in SC2
Tired of getting teabagged? Get your teabag insurance today!
Qzy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Denmark1121 Posts
August 19 2010 01:07 GMT
#8
On August 19 2010 09:55 TeabagInsurance wrote:
what makes you think i gave it a 1 star? here, i'll give you a 5 star :S

edit: It is a nice guide, well done, I was just slightly disappointed it wasn't for BW since I play P in BW but not in SC2


Wish i had the APM for BW - think i would play it more than SC2, if that were the case. Happy that you liked the guide - go write me one for BW .
TG Sambo... Intel classic! Life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
palanq
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States761 Posts
August 19 2010 01:07 GMT
#9
so you expo off of 2 gate robo, and then go colossus with the appropriate things to deal with midgame zerg aggression (mass roach = more immortal; muta = cannon/blink and more stalkers). mid-late game is mainly focused on upgraded robo and gateway units.

yeah, not bad.
time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
Qzy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Denmark1121 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-19 01:11:55
August 19 2010 01:10 GMT
#10
On August 19 2010 10:07 palanq wrote:
so you expo off of 2 gate robo, and then go colossus with the appropriate things to deal with midgame zerg aggression (mass roach = more immortal; muta = cannon/blink and more stalkers). mid-late game is mainly focused on upgraded robo and gateway units.

yeah, not bad.


Exactly! It's pretty much 1a, when upgrades kicks in. broodlords and ultras can give problems in late game, but in 95% PvZ games you don't run into them.
TG Sambo... Intel classic! Life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
PokePill
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1048 Posts
August 19 2010 01:17 GMT
#11
Do you consider this better than 10g expand or do you just prefer this (and why do you prefer this).
Qzy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Denmark1121 Posts
August 19 2010 01:25 GMT
#12
On August 19 2010 10:17 PokePill wrote:
Do you consider this better than 10g expand or do you just prefer this (and why do you prefer this).


I've never tried a 10 gate expand (?). Sounds like a good idea, but with that build aren't you in doubt if you should be producing probes or army units? Most likely lings will be right outside your base (killing your scouting probe), and your observer will be a bit late, due to early investment.

I would love to see a match where this happens, do you have a link for a replay-file? .
TG Sambo... Intel classic! Life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
PokePill
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1048 Posts
August 19 2010 01:41 GMT
#13
Here's an example:



You can make probes and army units at the same time, if you see them doing 1 base roach or baneling all in you can cut probes for a bit and make the needed adjustments.

On a map like desert oasis or delta quadrant I can see your build being much better.
Qzy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Denmark1121 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-19 01:59:29
August 19 2010 01:58 GMT
#14
On August 19 2010 10:41 PokePill wrote:
Here's an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym6XekaNIKg

You can make probes and army units at the same time, if you see them doing 1 base roach or baneling all in you can cut probes for a bit and make the needed adjustments.

On a map like desert oasis or delta quadrant I can see your build being much better.


It's really nice, as it forces the Zerg to go roaches - but if you don't have the apm for constant scouting with the stalker, you'll be blind, not knowing the size of your opponents army size. .
TG Sambo... Intel classic! Life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-19 02:38:57
August 19 2010 02:37 GMT
#15
Did I play a 3v3 with you today?

Qzy sounds familiar.

[edit] nope it was Qbz :<
Like a G6
Entropic
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2837 Posts
August 19 2010 02:42 GMT
#16
On August 19 2010 11:37 kzn wrote:
Did I play a 3v3 with you today?

Qzy sounds familiar.

[edit] nope it was Qbz :<


Plus, he's EU and you are NA. :D
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
August 19 2010 02:48 GMT
#17
stop with your logic

i am stupid
Like a G6
hp.Shell
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2527 Posts
August 19 2010 04:22 GMT
#18
When I realized it wasn't for BW, I are sad. T_T
Please PM me with any songs you like that you think I haven't heard before!
Torture
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada221 Posts
August 19 2010 04:22 GMT
#19
Sounds exactly like how I play PvZ. Mutalisks still give me a hard time though.
theSAiNT
Profile Joined July 2009
United States726 Posts
August 26 2010 13:05 GMT
#20
Hey! I remember this name! I think I've played you twice as Z before.

My criticism is that this is a pretty passive style and a greedy zerg can expand the map and out macro you. I find it easy to play against turtling protosses because it gives me time to tech to Ultras. Constant aggression is a lot harder to deal with.

I don't mind if more protosses played this way though :p
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