|
Okay, so I drive a 1997 Volkswagen Jetta GLS. Up until about a few weeks ago the car has been running fine for over a decade and a half. What I've noticed now is there is a pretty violent vibration (left/right shaking motion) in the car when I'm driving.
It happens most of the time when I'm stepping on the gas to speed up or move along steadily at around 20-40mph. It also happens sometimes when I'm braking down from those same speed. However, when I'm driving above 60mph the vibration is gone.
The vibration is coming from the front of the car, that part is clearly distinguishable. Most of the time it feels like the vibration is coming from the right side of the car (looking out in the driver's seat). I think it's also worth mentioning that it happens a lot when I'm turning right, but not when turning left - sharp turns (90 degree), that is.
My initial guesses were that the tires aren't aligned, the axle is messed up, or it's something wrong with the engine itself.
Back to the part about stepping on the gas, if I immediately take my foot off of the pedal the vibration stops. This leads me to think it isn't something related to the axle or tire alignment, which leaves it to be something engine related.
So.. anyone have any ideas as to what part of the engine could be causing such a vibration? And subsequently, would such a repair be costly?
It's been like this for roughly a month now. I haven't noticed it getting any worse, but it definitely isn't getting better.
|
is ur car tuned to use 91 or 93 octane? sounds like ur running shitty gas. at least thats one option. maybe use better gas and put in some injector cleaner and gas treatment. see if that can clear out some gunk. perhaps your plugs/wires need replacing or a coilpack
check your battery and starter. i'd probably blame this one on the battery. with my old battery, my car started up slower than with the new one. especially in the winter, it would sometimes crank a few times before it fired.
remove your IAC and clean with with carb/TB cleaner. u might have to do this multiple times. if it doesn't clear up the problem, clean the MAF with MAF cleaner or electric contact cleaner and clean the throttle body (take it off and clean both sides) with TB cleaner. if it keeps doing it, replace the IAC as it might have gone bad (common issue with our cars).
does it sound like a small piece of metal is rattling and it's gone after a second or two? if so, i don't think it's anything to worry about. my car does that on cold mornings. is there more of a constant clicking? like the only reason u stop hearing it is because of the engine noise/exhaust? If so, it might be an exhaust leak. check both exhaust manifolds. they're known for cracking, especially the passenger side. change ur plugs/wires and check the coil pack. if u changed ur plugs recently, pull them all out and make sure the gap is .052"-.054"
if you're not tuned for 91-93, try filling up with the higher octane fuel (just one tank, shouldn't need to keep doing it). If you're tuned for 91-93, DO NOT run a lower octane. that will cause a nice ticking/rattling noise and if you keep doing it you can say goodbye to your engine.
|
I am no car expert but, it could be your Constant-velocity joint on your drive axles.
A replacement could cost anywhere from 200-400 dollars. But you should prolly go get someone to look at it before replacing anything.
|
On July 18 2010 12:59 baller wrote:
is ur car tuned to use 91 or 93 octane? sounds like ur running shitty gas. at least thats one option. maybe use better gas and put in some injector cleaner and gas treatment. see if that can clear out some gunk. perhaps your plugs/wires need replacing or a coilpack
check your battery and starter. i'd probably blame this one on the battery. with my old battery, my car started up slower than with the new one. especially in the winter, it would sometimes crank a few times before it fired.
remove your IAC and clean with with carb/TB cleaner. u might have to do this multiple times. if it doesn't clear up the problem, clean the MAF with MAF cleaner or electric contact cleaner and clean the throttle body (take it off and clean both sides) with TB cleaner. if it keeps doing it, replace the IAC as it might have gone bad (common issue with our cars).
does it sound like a small piece of metal is rattling and it's gone after a second or two? if so, i don't think it's anything to worry about. my car does that on cold mornings. is there more of a constant clicking? like the only reason u stop hearing it is because of the engine noise/exhaust? If so, it might be an exhaust leak. check both exhaust manifolds. they're known for cracking, especially the passenger side. change ur plugs/wires and check the coil pack. if u changed ur plugs recently, pull them all out and make sure the gap is .052"-.054"
if you're not tuned for 91-93, try filling up with the higher octane fuel (just one tank, shouldn't need to keep doing it). If you're tuned for 91-93, DO NOT run a lower octane. that will cause a nice ticking/rattling noise and if you keep doing it you can say goodbye to your engine.
Highly doubt it's the gas. It uses 87 and has been since we first bought it.
We checked the battery and starter already. Nothing seemed unusual.
Haven't checked the idle air control valve yet. Will do tomorrow morning and get back to you.
There's no metal rattling or constant clicking. You can hear a faint sound of something rotating oddly though; it sounds like it could be hitting something. Don't think it's an exhaust leak.
On July 18 2010 13:04 Therickz wrote:
I am no car expert but, it could be your Constant-velocity joint on your drive axles.
A replacement could cost anywhere from 200-400 dollars. But you should prolly go get someone to look at it before replacing anything.
Thanks, I'll look into that tomorrow.
|
Has your car been randomly stalling at all?
|
Its the pasenger side strut. I had to replace one on a ford escort that i had a while back. The fact that it vibrates when you turn one way and doesnt when you turn the other most likely makes me think it the strut.
This is easy to check also. Jack the front tire off of the ground (side of the car thats shaking when you are going down the road) and see if you can shake the tire side to side. You have to put some muscle into it probably but the wheel shouldnt shake back and forth if it does then it is most definitely the strut.
|
sounds like a problem with your egr valve
nevermind egr would cause vibrations at idle too not just acceleration
|
On July 18 2010 13:18 Ronald_McD wrote:
Has your car been randomly stalling at all?
No, never; and it's automatic.
On July 18 2010 13:20 KaRnaGe[cF] wrote:
Its the pasenger side strut. I had to replace one on a ford escort that i had a while back. The fact that it vibrates when you turn one way and doesnt when you turn the other most likely makes it the strut.
Is that an expensive repair?
|
On July 18 2010 13:24 mahnini wrote:
sounds like a problem with your egr valve
nevermind egr would cause vibrations at idle too not just acceleration
Yea, there's nothing unusual during idle time.
|
On July 18 2010 13:20 KaRnaGe[cF] wrote:This is easy to check also. Jack the front tire off of the ground (side of the car thats shaking when you are going down the road) and see if you can shake the tire side to side. You have to put some muscle into it probably but the wheel shouldnt shake back and forth if it does then it is most definitely the strut.
Side to side as in towards the front of the car and back of the car, or a sort of wobbling motion. I know any kind of shaking should be obvious, but I just wanted to clarify with you. 
|
Not if you do it yourself but it can be a real headache. You need to get a spring compressor to take the springs off and get be able to replace the strut. Found your strut for 23$
I would say if you feel uncomfortable doing it just take it somewhere i wouldnt think they would charge too much.
http://www.volkswaparts.com/1H0413031AStrut.htm
|
Side to side as in passenger side to driver side. The wheel shouldnt wobble or shake. Grab both sides of the tire and try to shake the sides in opposite directions and see if the tire wobbles. Dont pull the car off the jack and land it on your foot though lol!
|
I don't know what it is, but it's definitely not the gas. Octane is an engine knockback rating iirc. The difference between 89 and 93 is so little it's laughable.
Edit: I'm agreeing with whoever said it was the strut.
|
Man... some real "car experts" in here. Check the gas? The battery? LOL. Wtf, kids...
If you get vibrations which happen only in certain speed ranges or at certain RPMs then it is most definitely a mechanical problem. The reason that they manifest at different times has to do with resonance - whatever is loose/damaged will naturally have some frequencies that it will want to vibrate at more than others. When the vibrations from the engine at a certain RPM or the rotation of the drivetrain at a certain speed hit those frequencies then the rattles and vibrations amplify until you feel or hear them.
The fact that it happens turning one way and not the other most likely narrows it down to something in the drivetrain, but not necessarily so. Lateral or other stresses in one direction are suppressing the vibration but not in the other. It's most likely not anything in the engine itself, but it could be a broken engine or transmission mount - this would cause the engine as a whole to vibrate on the frame rather than being bolted solidly to it.
I agree with Mr. Karnage that it could likely be the strut. Might also be something in the differential in which case it might be a rather expensive repair - the diff slips one way or the other depending on the direction of turn so it's not improbable to suspect it as a potential spot for failure. It's also quite possible that you've got a bad wheel bearing or, as Therickz said, a bad CV joint. Hard to say without hearing it in person.
The other possibilities are typically from abusive damage. If you've been the only driver and you know that it's not been in an accident or otherwise hit anything rough, slammed it over a curb, etc, then it's not likely a bent axle or anything like the frame having been twisted out of shape.
Only thing to do is get it checked out somewhere you trust.
|
On July 18 2010 14:33 jgad wrote:
Man... some real "car experts" in here. Check the gas? The battery? LOL. Wtf, kids...
If you get vibrations which happen only in certain speed ranges or at certain RPMs then it is most definitely a mechanical problem. The reason that they manifest at different times has to do with resonance - whatever is loose/damaged will naturally have some frequencies that it will want to vibrate at more than others. When the vibrations from the engine at a certain RPM or the rotation of the drivetrain at a certain speed hit those frequencies then the rattles and vibrations amplify until you feel or hear them.
The fact that it happens turning one way and not the other most likely narrows it down to something in the drivetrain, but not necessarily so. Lateral or other stresses in one direction are suppressing the vibration but not in the other. It's most likely not anything in the engine itself, but it could be a broken engine or transmission mount - this would cause the engine as a whole to vibrate on the frame rather than being bolted solidly to it.
I agree with Mr. Karnage that it could likely be the strut. Might also be something in the differential in which case it might be a rather expensive repair - the diff slips one way or the other depending on the direction of turn so it's not improbable to suspect it as a potential spot for failure. It's also quite possible that you've got a bad wheel bearing or, as Therickz said, a bad CV joint. Hard to say without hearing it in person.
The other possibilities are typically from abusive damage. If you've been the only driver and you know that it's not been in an accident or otherwise hit anything rough, slammed it over a curb, etc, then it's not likely a bent axle or anything like the frame having been twisted out of shape.
Only thing to do is get it checked out somewhere you trust. '
What makes me think its the strut is the fact that it virbrates worse when he is turning one direction rather than the other. Since the weight of the car is on the "bad strut" its holding it "in place" and not letting it wobble / vibrate. When he turns the other way the wieght is lifted off the stut and its free to wobble and shake. Im about 75% sure thats what it is.
Nothing engine related should cause violent vibrations like he is describing besides motor mounts (which should occur if he revs sitting still) unless the engine is blown and he wouldnt be going anywhere too far lol.
CV joints make popping sounds when you turn if they are going bad so probably not that. Only other thing i could think of would be just a bad tire or bearings but more than likely its the strut.
Have you hit a really bad pothole in the past few months? 
|
Just to clear things up, the Idle Air Control valve would do absolutely nothing in this situation, because it is only used during idle.
And a starter? C'mon guys, that is only used to start the car.
Anyways, as others said, I'd check the struts and bearings.
One sure way to make sure it's a blown strut, check your tires, if the tire wear is not even throughout and the tread is wornout in a cupped fashion, then it's a blown strut.
I've driven in a car with blown struts, it had some vibrations, but it wasn't that harsh.
It also stopped vibrating when I went off the throttle.
So, looks like that car had similar issues as you, but less severe.
Anyways, check the tires.
Second, check the bearings, jack the car up and wiggle the wheel, if you can wobble it, it's a bad bearing.
Bearings are made pretty well these days and can stand quite a bit of abuse though, but you never know.
|
On July 18 2010 13:35 KaRnaGe[cF] wrote:Not if you do it yourself but it can be a real headache. You need to get a spring compressor to take the springs off and get be able to replace the strut. Found your strut for 23$ I would say if you feel uncomfortable doing it just take it somewhere i wouldnt think they would charge too much. http://www.volkswaparts.com/1H0413031AStrut.htm
Ah, thanks. Gives me good hopes of it not being too expensive of a repair.
On July 18 2010 13:40 KaRnaGe[cF] wrote:
Side to side as in passenger side to driver side. The wheel shouldnt wobble or shake. Grab both sides of the tire and try to shake the sides in opposite directions and see if the tire wobbles. Dont pull the car off the jack and land it on your foot though lol!
Haha, okay. Will rememeber that tomorrow morning.
|
On July 18 2010 14:47 KaRnaGe[cF] wrote:
What makes me think its the strut is the fact that it virbrates worse when he is turning one direction rather than the other. Since the weight of the car is on the "bad strut" its holding it "in place" and not letting it wobble / vibrate. When he turns the other way the wieght is lifted off the stut and its free to wobble and shake. Im about 75% sure thats what it is.
I agree. I only mention the others as they can sometimes do the same thing. Bad wheel bearings can sometimes show similar symptoms (vibrating when turning away from the bad wheel), as can the diff as it's slipping in a different direction when you turn one way or the other - especially at lower speeds and tighter turns.
The strut should definitely be the first place to check - it's also the easiest to check of the lot as well so it makes sense to start there.
|
On July 18 2010 14:33 jgad wrote:
Man... some real "car experts" in here. Check the gas? The battery? LOL. Wtf, kids...
If you get vibrations which happen only in certain speed ranges or at certain RPMs then it is most definitely a mechanical problem. The reason that they manifest at different times has to do with resonance - whatever is loose/damaged will naturally have some frequencies that it will want to vibrate at more than others. When the vibrations from the engine at a certain RPM or the rotation of the drivetrain at a certain speed hit those frequencies then the rattles and vibrations amplify until you feel or hear them.
The fact that it happens turning one way and not the other most likely narrows it down to something in the drivetrain, but not necessarily so. Lateral or other stresses in one direction are suppressing the vibration but not in the other. It's most likely not anything in the engine itself, but it could be a broken engine or transmission mount - this would cause the engine as a whole to vibrate on the frame rather than being bolted solidly to it.
I agree with Mr. Karnage that it could likely be the strut. Might also be something in the differential in which case it might be a rather expensive repair - the diff slips one way or the other depending on the direction of turn so it's not improbable to suspect it as a potential spot for failure. It's also quite possible that you've got a bad wheel bearing or, as Therickz said, a bad CV joint. Hard to say without hearing it in person.
The other possibilities are typically from abusive damage. If you've been the only driver and you know that it's not been in an accident or otherwise hit anything rough, slammed it over a curb, etc, then it's not likely a bent axle or anything like the frame having been twisted out of shape.
Only thing to do is get it checked out somewhere you trust.
Very informative post. Thanks a lot!
Okay, just to clarifiy, it's narrowed down to either the strut or bearing on the right side.
I've been the only driver for the past 5 years. Until this summer, about a month ago, my brother has been using it more than me since I'm home now and he's been going out more (I usually get rides with my girlfriend). I haven't hit anything ever since then, but I do remember about a month or two ago I ran over what I assumed to be a small carpet on the highway (it was flat laid out, not rolled up). I honestly can't remember if the vibration starter after that. It could've, right, and then the damage snowballed since then? As for my brother, I can't say. He's a bastard (he's beyond a problem child and has complete lack of respect for anyone in our family) and lies about a lot of things. Just a few weeks ago our old van, which my dad kept in perfect shape for almost 20 years now, got a huge scratch/dent on the side. It was also during the time my brother took the van out for the night. He claims he didn't know about it. I'm pretty sure it was his fault from the way the scar looks. Though we have no solid proof.
|
On July 18 2010 14:47 KaRnaGe[cF] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 14:33 jgad wrote:
Man... some real "car experts" in here. Check the gas? The battery? LOL. Wtf, kids...
If you get vibrations which happen only in certain speed ranges or at certain RPMs then it is most definitely a mechanical problem. The reason that they manifest at different times has to do with resonance - whatever is loose/damaged will naturally have some frequencies that it will want to vibrate at more than others. When the vibrations from the engine at a certain RPM or the rotation of the drivetrain at a certain speed hit those frequencies then the rattles and vibrations amplify until you feel or hear them.
The fact that it happens turning one way and not the other most likely narrows it down to something in the drivetrain, but not necessarily so. Lateral or other stresses in one direction are suppressing the vibration but not in the other. It's most likely not anything in the engine itself, but it could be a broken engine or transmission mount - this would cause the engine as a whole to vibrate on the frame rather than being bolted solidly to it.
I agree with Mr. Karnage that it could likely be the strut. Might also be something in the differential in which case it might be a rather expensive repair - the diff slips one way or the other depending on the direction of turn so it's not improbable to suspect it as a potential spot for failure. It's also quite possible that you've got a bad wheel bearing or, as Therickz said, a bad CV joint. Hard to say without hearing it in person.
The other possibilities are typically from abusive damage. If you've been the only driver and you know that it's not been in an accident or otherwise hit anything rough, slammed it over a curb, etc, then it's not likely a bent axle or anything like the frame having been twisted out of shape.
Only thing to do is get it checked out somewhere you trust. ' What makes me think its the strut is the fact that it virbrates worse when he is turning one direction rather than the other. Since the weight of the car is on the "bad strut" its holding it "in place" and not letting it wobble / vibrate. When he turns the other way the wieght is lifted off the stut and its free to wobble and shake. Im about 75% sure thats what it is. Nothing engine related should cause violent vibrations like he is describing besides motor mounts (which should occur if he revs sitting still) unless the engine is blown and he wouldnt be going anywhere too far lol. CV joints make popping sounds when you turn if they are going bad so probably not that. Only other thing i could think of would be just a bad tire or bearings but more than likely its the strut. Have you hit a really bad pothole in the past few months?
Isn't it if I'm turning right the weight is on the right strut, which would mean the bad strut is the left one since that's when the vibration occurs?
As for revving sitting still, I'll test that out tomorrow too. I don't know why I didn't try that yet, sorry.
I haven't hit any potholes. Read my post quoting jgad about the driving/usage over the past month:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=137002#19
|
On July 18 2010 15:03 Razii wrote:
Just to clear things up, the Idle Air Control valve would do absolutely nothing in this situation, because it is only used during idle.
And a starter? C'mon guys, that is only used to start the car.
Anyways, as others said, I'd check the struts and bearings.
One sure way to make sure it's a blown strut, check your tires, if the tire wear is not even throughout and the tread is wornout in a cupped fashion, then it's a blown strut.
I've driven in a car with blown struts, it had some vibrations, but it wasn't that harsh.
It also stopped vibrating when I went off the throttle.
So, looks like that car had similar issues as you, but less severe.
Anyways, check the tires.
Second, check the bearings, jack the car up and wiggle the wheel, if you can wobble it, it's a bad bearing.
Bearings are made pretty well these days and can stand quite a bit of abuse though, but you never know.
If it's not too much to ask, could you show me pictures of what kind of wear/tear I should look for?
|
He's a bastard (he's beyond a problem child and has complete lack of respect for anyone in our family)
Well, that's important info and very possibly the source of your problem. Cowboy driving can easily cause shit to go wrong in all types of ways. I doubt a carpet would cause any problems unless it was really tightly bound up or very stiff - enough to make you feel a BANG when your drove over it. Typically, though, it would be more like Karnage said - hitting a massive pothole or hitting a curb at high speed, etc. Anything where the wheel or axle suffers hard impact stress is killer on your bearings, struts, CV, etc.
If I had a brother like that the little bastard wouldn't be anywhere near MY car!
|
On July 18 2010 15:58 Spartan wrote:
If it's not too much to ask, could you show me pictures of what kind of wear/tear I should look for?
![[image loading]](http://www.2carpros.com/how_does_it_work/images/tire_wear_pattern.jpg)
On the right.
|
That's a good picture posted by jgad, now the wear might not be as obvious as it is in the picture, but look at the top of the tire, the wear should be flat and even, it it looks lumpy and uneven, then it's a blown shock.
I'd check all 4 tires just to be safe.
|
Okay, got around to doing a bunch of tests..
- Raised the driver/passenger side tires and they didn't shake or wobble noticeably unusual.
- Engine is not rocking so it's probably not the mounts.
- Revving on neutral/parked does not result in vibration.
I have noticed this though..
![[image loading]](http://vgcache.com/datas/images/5521-tire_wear_pattern.jpg)
On the passenger side tire there's a noticeable strip of wear/tear ringing around the outside of the tire. It's where the pink line is on the image above. I figure it's probably now just an alignment problem, but you never know..
|
Oh, and I noticed that this hose that was patched up previously had broken again. Not sure if it was from all the vibrating that broke the patch, but I just patched it up again (with duct tape and zip ties)..
![[image loading]](http://vgcache.com/datas/images/5522-Photo502.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://vgcache.com/datas/images/5523-Photo503.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://vgcache.com/datas/images/5524-Photo505.jpg)
|
Hmm, sounds like the problem here is your a male and drive a jetta. O.o
Seriosuly though, sounds like either
Alignment is off
your wheels are not balanced correctly
you have a cracked/broken motor mount
|
It's a handed-down car.  From my dad, to older brother, to me, and soon to my little brother.
|
On July 20 2010 04:08 Spartan wrote: I figure it's probably now just an alignment problem, but you never know..
Could still be a number of things, dude. From the wear you describe it might even be king pins or ball joints. Hard to say without actually having a good look at it.
|
|
|
Okay, just an update. The tire misalignment is most likely a separate issue because after re-patching that broken hose in the above pictures the car seems to have stopped vibrating. Of course, that's only after 2 drives today on errands. We'll see how it holds up over the next 24 hours. I'm not sure exactly what that hose was for, but it did lead to the engine.
|
I'm not schooled about Jettas but it looks like maybe a coolant hose? I'd keep an eye on your engine temp... 0_o
|
Took it for another drive just now to a BMW repair shop (had to drop off dad to pick up mom's car). On the way there the vibration was pretty much gone, but it came back for a few seconds on the way back. While we were at the shop we asked the guy and he agreed that it's most likely something to do with the house. So I'm thinking, though my patch got rid of the vibration for the most part, there may be a leak alone the same hose line somewhere or maybe my patch just isn't air tight.
|
|
|
I'm unsure what that hose leads to or how it could've caused vibrations, I've never worked on a Jetta before.
Glad it got fixed though.
Is that a hose with a plastic sheath?
If it's just a cover take it off and see if the rubber hose underneath is torn, patching that would be much more effective.
For the long run, you'll want to replace it with a hose that isn't torn, if you're lucky and can find a Jetta with the same engine at the junkyard then you can get it for cheap, otherwise you'll need to go to the dealership but things are pretty pricey there.
I would also replace the tire with the wonky wear pattern for safety's sake.
Any pictures of the tire with the weird wear pattern?
|
The hose is for the air intake to the engine, from what the manual says. There's no rubber inside. It's just a plastic tube, which is why it's probably brittle. I'll take a picture of the tire tomorrow.
|
Ohh I see, good thing you patched that up, that crack was probably introducing unmetered air into the engine which is a bad thing.
So, the vibrations are gone completely?
|
90% sure its the spark plugs.
I had almost the exact same issue with my van. The iginition wiring was wearing out and the plugs were getting dirty. Cleaned them off with a bit of sandpaper and changed the wiring and problem was solved.
It literally took me all day going back and forth from the auto zone to buy tools and parts but the job itself didn't take long to do at all.
ignition wiring is like 20$
If you want further assistance try calling into those famous car guys show on saturday morning.
PS- I got a lot of the same theories from people trying to diagnose my problem and i figured out something important about mechanics. They never use Occam's razor.
The resonating thing sounds intelligent and plausible, but what if just at that certain speed your car isn't getting the correct power it needs causing it to rattle by working harder or stuttering. Once you get passed that zone in either direction it's fine.
|
I hope your problem is already solved but if it comes back and all options already mentioned don't work out it could be your sub-frame is bent out of shape. You already said you didn't hit anything but still...
I had the exact same symtoms as you describe. My sub-frame was bent slightly out of shape and this in combination with the natural resonance of things caused the misbehaviour of the car. It also explains the wear on the wheel because your car ever so slightly wants to go to that side. This also explains why it worsens when you take a turn to one side but nothing happens when you turn to the other side.
If it is indeed a problem with your sub-frame it could be pretty expensive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
