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Rant!

Blogs > Saracen
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1 2 3 Next All
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-15 09:09:56
June 30 2010 23:14 GMT
#1
There are things that annoy me. And then there is the SC2 Strategy Forum. I'm not saying that I don't like that place, or that it's even a "bad" place to frequent. But there are a few things that really get me fired up that always, always seem to wiggle their way into every single thread.

[image loading]
Angry!

"Push." Chances are, it's not a push. Whenever you gather your big ball of Protoss hodgepodge and 1a roll into his natural, that's not a push. Whenever you rally your MMM to take out his 3rd, that's not a push. Whenever you run your speedlings and banelings into his main, that's not a push. Whenever you harass his mineral lines with hellions or banshees, that's not a push.
Seriously, it's gotten out of hand:
Does anyone have a replay ZvT that beats a fast banshee push?

as mentioned above, you can put down a factory as soon as the rax is finished - you can also reactor the barracks immediately thereafter, resulting in a really quick hellion push (or vikings if you go that far up), which is pretty legit against zerg.

I am pretty tired of spling/bling push or all-ins in ZvZ so I've been trying out some FE+roach opening into 2-base muta before end of phase one beta.

If you're describing an attack, then say "attack." If you're describing a harass, then say "harass." If you're leapfrogging your tanks to push your opponent back and gain ground, then say "push."

[image loading]

Generally not something you "push" with.

"Timing push." You probably meant to say "timing attack." But chances are, it's not even a timing attack. I know it makes you sound cool and sophisticated and knowledgeable to throw in an occasional "timing" into your post, but chances are, there is no "timing" involved at all. Chances are, you just macroed together a big mass of stuff, looked at it and thought "hey, this looks pretty sweet," and decided to attack. Or maybe you waited and waited until you got those three shiny Colossi before moving out. That's not called a timing attack.
The key difference is that timing attacks involve what the opponent is doing. For example, you attack him right before his spire finishes. Or maybe you attack him because your obs sees him mass droning. Or maybe, just maybe, given standard play and his race's production capabilities, he can only be expected to have X units when your 2/1 finishes, meaning you can actually legitimately "push" into his natural. But that can't be the case, because there's no such thing as "standard" in the beta right now, at least in the sense of concrete timings. Which is the sense people are using when they go around spamming "timing push."

[image loading]
SC2 still has a long way to go before these become prominent

This one doesn't bother me so much as it intrigues me.
"Pop." I'd imagine that it could be a flavorful alternative to saying a Zerg unit or building dies, since they generally have a nice "popping" animation (or, at least, they used to). But no, it's just a fun-to-say synonym for something finishing. Like, "spire pops" means "the spire is done." Or "tank pops" means "the tank is done." Or "factory pops" means "the factory is done." That last one gives me a funny mental image of an SCV in a wizard's robe with deeply furrowed brows who mutters a spell for an eternity. And then, suddenly, *pop*. You get a factory. I guess it's okay for Terran units, though, since they seem to "pop out" of their production facilities.

[image loading]
Merlin the Macro Mage: "Pop! Here's your factory."

Anyways. Push. Timing push. Stop saying them. 99% of the time, you just meant to say attack. If I could just stop seeing and hearing these things, I would be so happy I'd draw another Zerg comic. Seriously. + Show Spoiler +
(Maybe)


http://caltechrankmaniac2012.wordpress.com/

****
nttea
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Sweden4353 Posts
June 30 2010 23:17 GMT
#2
Great rant! i could have done the part about Push myself ^_^ <3.
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-30 23:19:52
June 30 2010 23:18 GMT
#3
It's cute that some people think they can arbitrarily define the word "push" for the entire SC2 community... Sadly, stuff be subjective =(

On the other hand you're right and we're all doomed =D

PS: I'm guilty as hell here
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
Hyde
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Australia14568 Posts
June 30 2010 23:18 GMT
#4
Saracen, from the bottom of my heart, I want to thank you. Because I too think it has gotten out of hand. It annoys me to no end and I hope everyone reads this. I also want casters to read this because they make this mistake a lot of then the people who are listen that don't know any better then go on to make the mistake as well.
Because when you left, Brood War was all spotlights and titans. Now, with the death of the big leagues, Brood War has moved to the basements and carparks. Now, Brood War is unlicensed brawls, lost teeth, and bloody fights for fistfulls of money - SirJolt
TaaiJoeng
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Hong Kong164 Posts
June 30 2010 23:19 GMT
#5
Nice rant. It's quite annoying when people misuse terminology... :/
...but the parasites say NO!
prOxi.swAMi
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Australia3091 Posts
June 30 2010 23:20 GMT
#6
This is something that's been quietly niggling at me in the back of my mind aswell. Everyone seems to be using it that way, even some commentators. This blog needed to happen eventually, and you did it well.

5 stars.
Oh no
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
June 30 2010 23:21 GMT
#7
ahahahah great rant~!

i agree it will be a bit before proper sc2 timings will be established
cw)minsean(ru
barth
Profile Joined March 2008
Ireland1272 Posts
June 30 2010 23:24 GMT
#8
These phrases have been used in a wrong way (I suppose) since the dawn of time (perhaps not so much a timing attack/push but push definitely has been). Eventually I stopped caring about since recently no one seemed to point it out anymore, but yeah, usage of these words should definitely be straightened.
"Somebody you are talking to disappears mid sentence, and the universe shoots you because you talked to someone that wasn`t there." - MasterOfChaos
AcrossFiveJulys
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
United States3612 Posts
June 30 2010 23:28 GMT
#9
quoted for freckin truth. The influx of new users here when sc2 was announced caused the "push" term to be misused. I remember 3,4 years ago push was used exclusively for terran tank pushes.
Megalisk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States6095 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-30 23:29:28
June 30 2010 23:28 GMT
#10
Alot of this happens because most of the commentators say this stupid crap, I won't name any its cause I'm not an asshole, but they have a bigger influence than they might think, and its obvious some of them don't know how stupid some of the stuff they say is.
Tear stained american saints and dirty guitar dreams across a universe of desert and blue sky , gas station coffee love letters and two dollar pistol kisses from thirty five dollar hotel room stationary .
Baksteen
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Netherlands438 Posts
June 30 2010 23:29 GMT
#11
I think you worded it quite well! Totally with you!

You only forgot the 'do a tech switch' part. People dont even understand what they say, tech switch to tanks! What is this tech switch thing?!?!
Derp Derp Derp
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
June 30 2010 23:32 GMT
#12
On July 01 2010 08:29 Baksteen wrote:
I think you worded it quite well! Totally with you!

You only forgot the 'do a tech switch' part. People dont even understand what they say, tech switch to tanks! What is this tech switch thing?!?!

if you're working with say a bionic build. with an acad, ebay running +1's and 4 rax's
and suddenly you place down 3 factories with seige running
you have "tech switched" . in essence youve changed your army composition
cw)minsean(ru
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-30 23:34:24
June 30 2010 23:33 GMT
#13
a baneling push...a fast banshee push...oh god

good rant dan. miss playing with u, hit me up soon =)
Baksteen
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Netherlands438 Posts
June 30 2010 23:35 GMT
#14
On July 01 2010 08:32 DreaM)XeRO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2010 08:29 Baksteen wrote:
I think you worded it quite well! Totally with you!

You only forgot the 'do a tech switch' part. People dont even understand what they say, tech switch to tanks! What is this tech switch thing?!?!

if you're working with say a bionic build. with an acad, ebay running +1's and 4 rax's
and suddenly you place down 3 factories with seige running
you have "tech switched" . in essence youve changed your army composition


Yes but shouldn't that just be the natural flow your game has? You mass something, he counters, you make other stuff. Is it really needed to use that word? :p

And people use it all the time so it has no meaning, when is it just adapting and when does it become a tech switch? If i make 1 starport and do one banshee and after that only make marines have i tech switched? Or does it only count when i have 4 rax's + eng bay + acad running ups and i suddenly abandon all rax's and go with 3 facts?
Derp Derp Derp
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
June 30 2010 23:36 GMT
#15
One of the better rants I've read on TL... I agree with some other posts, terminology is being slaughtered by the new people that don't have a SC background and think they know what they are saying.
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
Hyde
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Australia14568 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-30 23:38:12
June 30 2010 23:36 GMT
#16
On July 01 2010 08:33 OneOther wrote:
a baneling push...a fast banshee push...oh god

good rant dan. miss playing with u, hit me up soon =)

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/User:Genesisx/14_Pool_Baneling

Part of the Liquipedia comp for the Oz shirt.
Because when you left, Brood War was all spotlights and titans. Now, with the death of the big leagues, Brood War has moved to the basements and carparks. Now, Brood War is unlicensed brawls, lost teeth, and bloody fights for fistfulls of money - SirJolt
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25980 Posts
June 30 2010 23:38 GMT
#17
Sorry dawg I think you mistook this for my blog.
Moderator
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
June 30 2010 23:38 GMT
#18
If you're leapfrogging your tanks to push your opponent back and gain ground, then say "push."


If by definition a push is some movement or attack to force your opponent back for you to gain ground then all three of your situations can be described as "pushing" under the right context. I think you should either clearly define what you think pushing is or extend your examples.
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
June 30 2010 23:42 GMT
#19
On July 01 2010 08:36 Hyde wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2010 08:33 OneOther wrote:
a baneling push...a fast banshee push...oh god

good rant dan. miss playing with u, hit me up soon =)

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/User:Genesisx/14_Pool_Baneling

Part of the Liquipedia comp for the Oz shirt.

huh? why did you quote me for
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
June 30 2010 23:43 GMT
#20
On July 01 2010 08:35 Baksteen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2010 08:32 DreaM)XeRO wrote:
On July 01 2010 08:29 Baksteen wrote:
I think you worded it quite well! Totally with you!

You only forgot the 'do a tech switch' part. People dont even understand what they say, tech switch to tanks! What is this tech switch thing?!?!

if you're working with say a bionic build. with an acad, ebay running +1's and 4 rax's
and suddenly you place down 3 factories with seige running
you have "tech switched" . in essence youve changed your army composition


Yes but shouldn't that just be the natural flow your game has? You mass something, he counters, you make other stuff. Is it really needed to use that word? :p

And people use it all the time so it has no meaning, when is it just adapting and when does it become a tech switch? If i make 1 starport and do one banshee and after that only make marines have i tech switched? Or does it only count when i have 4 rax's + eng bay + acad running ups and i suddenly abandon all rax's and go with 3 facts?

a tech switch is basically where you persue a different branch in the tech tree

for example bionic and mechanic are totally different branches on the 'tech tree'
for you to abandon bionic and move towards mechanic would be a tech switch

but it is costly and unless executed cautiously (deep 5) should rarely be used
but im mostly talking about sc:bw :D
cw)minsean(ru
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