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We just won :D
I was worried that our qualifers would use 66b like the other countries did for theirs, but we ended up using 67c.
We didn't have any specific strategies prepared, just a safe play style. Strong lanes -> farm core items -> push/pressure.
For those who follow DotA:
Replay
Picks
Sentinel: SF (me) Windrunner VS Necro Sven
Scourge: Alch Drow Tide WD Silencer
Pretty straightforward. Their heroes can't match our farming speed early game, lack AoE so we can outfarm core items and take down towers while keeping our own and that should compensate for drow/alch being super gay once they get some farming speed mid game.
BTW, we early picked drow 1st game which they must not have expected.. hence the drow 1st pick.
1st game we played pretty sloppy, and the host left right after gg so we all got disc'd no replay 
2nd game we played alright but I think it was more of their bad decision making since pressure was on them at that point.
I'm glad we won but watching Korea getting buttraped by Argentia just before the match was depressing T_T
PS: We're still up for practice games if anyone's interested. It's just that 1 of our members is doing his military service so his time isn't as flexible.
 
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Just wondering, do you know who MarchTofu is?
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On June 18 2010 02:16 ThePurist wrote:
Just wondering, do you know who MarchTofu is?
Yes.
We were on the same team for WCG + ADC last year. Although he left to Canda after 1 game for the latter. In fact, I'm having a conversation with him now  Korea's a pretty small place, so team members often get together irl and hang out, although half of it consists of DotA @ pc bangs lol.
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I know him irl as well =)
I play a lot dota for fun on throneit.com kkkk ... I think it's amazing what national teams can do. You guys are amazing.
Yo best of luck to you guys in the future!
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That Silencer pick was dumb...actually their entire line up was dumb. Good job outpicking them. Sven/VS/WR to create space for Necro and SF early to mid. Hell even that WD/Alch lane (if they ran it, can't see the replay) can't do shit as long as your VS was worth something.
Heen, tell March to rage bb multiple times at ESWC.
Congratulations, gogo gg.net replay!! :D
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Calgary25996 Posts
Wait.. you won a game or the whole thing? Either way, congrats. Winning at WCG is always hard!
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Congrats, how many teams were in it?
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On June 18 2010 02:54 GreEny K wrote:
Congrats, how many teams were in it?
2 teams...
pretty funny and sad at the same time. The Korean DotA community is bigger (estimate around 20k active users) but some factors that contributed:
- 3 days sign up period + notice (some teams wanted in but couldn't prepare the roster and information needed to signup)
- same 2-3 teams having a realistic shot at winning (no motivation for the weak ones), iirc:
2007: around 12 teams (xDT)
2008: 8 (TOFU)
2009: 6 (xDT + TOFU)
2010: 2 (our team which has roots in xDT)
So the 2 games were the finals, technically. Not a real accomplishment, but we were pretty confident and we'll have some 'real' goals @ Singapore hopefully. No matter how much the odds were in our favor this year, actually winning it was still an experience.
Judicator: I think they chocked during picks. It was rather obvious that their picks were forced and they focused on denying us the heroes that synergized with our lineup... and lost sight of their own synergy.
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congrats.
winning WCG is preety big, hope you do as well in finals!
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Wow. You guys dominated drow top.
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
Nice job!
Man I should get better at DotA sometime.
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Croatia9530 Posts
Hehe, as a pretty new enthusiastic Dota player I congratulate you and wishes you best of luck in grand finals!
Now back at noobying on iccup.... if anyone plays Dota on iccup and wanna play msg me!
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I wish I knew anything about dota. If this was HoN, I'd love to watch the replay. Congratulations regardless!
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Congrats Heen!!!!
Oh and screw march ;P
Edit: How'd your practice go? Did you feel like your win was through just better combined individual skill and if so are you nervous about the next matches ;x
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On June 18 2010 04:24 Durak wrote:
I wish I knew anything about dota. If this was HoN, I'd love to watch the replay. Congratulations regardless!
Same.. I tried dota a couple weeks ago and didn't really like it, but I enjoy hon so maybe I'll check your rep. Well done :p
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On June 18 2010 04:27 Ack1027 wrote:
Congrats Heen!!!!
Oh and screw march ;P
Edit: How'd your practice go? Did you feel like your win was through just better combined individual skill and if so are you nervous about the next matches ;x
Thanks! <3
I'd say a mix of both. Our players were more active and our play style, preferred game flow has been stabilized somewhat, almost like a formula.
Nervous? Hrmm... I always feel like we need practice of course. Few games vs some of the top teams of Asia prove that they outclass us.
Oh yea, Judicator, rage bb = rage buyback from last year's AWCG? I assumed rage bb was some kind of inside joke about march's bristleback in an EEDL game or something.
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It is, nv was split up during a few eedl games, march was kind of up and down and missing things he normally gets with windrunner, so Fear was making fun of him after every death.
Dunno about the top Asian teams, for me it just seems their strategies are pretty "simple" or "transparent". I feel like a lot of their success comes from running simple and well-executed team fights; very effective, almost like they're welcoming you into a team fight that you believe you have the advantage when you clearly don't.
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That's a pretty accurate description of what it feels like to play vs them I suppose :D
Trial and error has taught us. So, not choosing to fight welcoming fights is part of our *metagame.* But clearly, we need to develop a better solution/counter than to trust our instincts.
I'm not a good analyzer, so I'll have to think about how we can pinpoint what leads us to poor decisions and tackle the root of the problem
edit: Did I use metagame correctly or should I avoid using the term since it's so commonly misused and understood anyway?
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Do you know what metagame means?
Do you really?
- Chill
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Think so. Mentality would probably be better word choice there. Anyways, it's nothing sound warding can't fix. Asian teams doesn't seem to like strong roamers breaking up lanes, aka they can't handle the ES/VS trade, I honestly think VS holding down a dual lane with roam and with smart warding disrupts Asians more than anything. I also feel like they can't recover from aggressive line ups disrupting their farm as well as their Euro counterparts.
Pinpointing problems shouldn't be that bad if you have an in-game leader, like take DTS for example (ignore the we aren't as good as them part), Dendi picks, Light more or less leads in games by performances/decisions (to a lesser extent so does ArtStyle), allowing NS/Dread/Dendi to follow suit and complement very well. In this case, Light is the in-game leader by performance. You just need someone who's starting the fights to understand what the opposing team likes to do, and the rest of you can follow suit. I think that's more manageable than getting 5 people to figure it out in-game.
Watching your game now 
Tell your warder that first ward at bot was awful, no point that early in the game for that ward, you can drop it on the far side of the neutral camp to cover your bot better (makes the tower dive more risky)
Your Necro was wtf, if you're going aura first, go tank, should have tried to stack HP to a Meka/VG against that line up, and needs to work on his cs
Your VS stood top for too long, Drow wasn't going to scare off a WR and Silencer should NOT have been anywhere near farmed when flanked by a Sven bot and a VS top. Should have counter-warded (with sentries or regular) their Levi quickly (who stupidly clung onto a ward instead of dropping it top of mid so Silencer doesn't get fog gayed), instead of grabbing treads...and in general failing....
Basically whoever (Necro or SF) didn't get the WD/Alch lane (SF in this case) should have been free-farming till Blink/BKB/whatever the fuck you wanted.
VS makes me cry. He's going for items when wards are better served since both SF and WR hit their farm marks
Basically if you didn't win that fight in front of Rosh you would be looking at pretty even end game :\ despite having 2 better lanes.
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On June 18 2010 07:34 Judicator wrote:Think so. Mentality would probably be better word choice there. Anyways, it's nothing sound warding can't fix. Asian teams doesn't seem to like strong roamers breaking up lanes, aka they can't handle the ES/VS trade, I honestly think VS holding down a dual lane with roam and with smart warding disrupts Asians more than anything. I also feel like they can't recover from aggressive line ups disrupting their farm as well as their Euro counterparts. Pinpointing problems shouldn't be that bad if you have an in-game leader, like take DTS for example (ignore the we aren't as good as them part), Dendi picks, Light more or less leads in games by performances/decisions (to a lesser extent so does ArtStyle), allowing NS/Dread/Dendi to follow suit and complement very well. In this case, Light is the in-game leader by performance. You just need someone who's starting the fights to understand what the opposing team likes to do, and the rest of you can follow suit. I think that's more manageable than getting 5 people to figure it out in-game. Watching your game now Tell your warder that first ward at bot was awful, no point that early in the game for that ward, you can drop it on the far side of the neutral camp to cover your bot better (makes the tower dive more risky) Your Necro was wtf, if you're going aura first, go tank, should have tried to stack HP to a Meka/VG against that line up, and needs to work on his cs Your VS stood top for too long, Drow wasn't going to scare off a WR and Silencer should NOT have been anywhere near farmed when flanked by a Sven bot and a VS top. Should have counter-warded (with sentries or regular) their Levi quickly (who stupidly clung onto a ward instead of dropping it top of mid so Silencer doesn't get fog gayed), instead of grabbing treads...and in general failing.... Basically whoever (Necro or SF) didn't get the WD/Alch lane (SF in this case) should have been free-farming till Blink/BKB/whatever the fuck you wanted. VS makes me cry. He's going for items when wards are better served since both SF and WR hit their farm marks Basically if you didn't win that fight in front of Rosh you would be looking at pretty even end game :\ despite having 2 better lanes.
Well, it's nice to get some feedback regarding the game. Regarding the 1st ward that oversees bot rune, our team often puts one there to make mid lane much safer since, it's much more common, at least in Korea, for ppl to trilane bottom as scourge. Putting the ward on the cliff that oversees the rune from the right seems to be what you're suggesting. To me, it basically boils down to which lane we want to keep safer since we can only get vision of one and the blind side will have to assume that they're in potential danger if they get too far from their tower.
I see what you're saying though. Maybe it's because we're too used to necro/es lane, which is about 10 times safer than necro/sven.
About VS, we watched the replay and we did discuss the non-roaming vs part at least. First blood was definitely a wtf moment which may have contributed to VS's staying in lane such a long time.
Our supporters being the weak link is fact. Especially when it comes to warding/counter-warding. Pure, good supporters are near impossibe to find in this country. Let's put it this way: I mainly play non-warding heroes and I can ward better than most supports from just watching replays. In VS's defense though, he did play a standard for-the-team lion the 1st game in terms of gold usage. I guess he felt relaxed after we were up 1-0. I definitely don't approve of it though
As for necro, usually he can cs just fine. I don't know what happened that game. He can play both carry/support. But considering he was more active than sven/vs, decided to tweak the roles a bit. Probably bad choice of starting items and anxiety or something. Just a few hour after the game, March and I actually had an almost hour long discussion about the current 'trend' of items and so many people going for popular builds mindlessly. It's a long convo which basically ended in us both agreeing that item builds ought to be well thoughtout (duh) but the preference of players that build up over years or months is also a real factor.
me pro vanguard ("so asian!")
him pro BoT ("so euro!")
I'm not a big fan of aura nec early on. Just seems so... trivial. Might as well tower hug with sadist and catch up on the farming once the standard laning phase passes. That's my take on the sadist vs aura debate. It only seems useful when you have rylai or it's a 1v2 tower hug lane.
Bleh, I'd like to somewhat defend my teammates but your points are mostly valid. We weren't happy with today's performance anyhow. I was actually quite frustrated after the 1st game, since people kept diving for kills that were an obvious no-no interms of risk/reward. Like I mentioned earlier, I hope we can tackle the root of the problem in the next 20 days or so
I have to disagree about the roshan part. We pretty muched had the game in the bag when their bottom push failed since we owned the map from that point and there was no realistic way they could out farm our 3 skill spamming carries in the dark.
I hope I didn't sound too defensive
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You're fine.
Like the main problem I had was that your VS wasn't creating space for you or producing pressure on the Silencer. For instance, the runes, VS should have just jumped the runes for your SF, making it safe for you get runes since they had a bottle-first Tide roaming (Silencer is a non-factor and probably better if you pulled him from farming the lanes), but he didn't and you're presence in lanes wasn't as effective. The other problem is that your VS was hurting your WR by staying the lane and taking up exp. You took towers early which frankly is the only reason why you won the game, because Drow caught up to you in farm and because of that Silencer pick.
The biggest problem though is that I feel like your VS and Necro to some extent played like they didn't explicitly know what to do, almost like what I like to call, with their heads down looking like they dropped shit on the ground. Their decisions was confusing and they didn't really know what to do.
There were multiple times in the game where if team fights went smoother or if they didn't have a Silencer (this hero is so fucking useless once towers goes down) you would have been hard pressed to finish the game.
Anyways I pointed out the Roshan part for one reason only, IF their Drow leveled Silence over Frost Arrows (why the fuck would you level Arrows past 1 in that game is beyond me) and they didn't pick a Silencer, aka to be in a similar game situation (the game was still within their grasp) with different heroes (like say like a super defensive line up that DTS recently (tried to) used with PL and Storm with KotL and a CM hard support) then you would be pressured rather than them. That is the big problem, the fact that you didn't transfer early towers and advantage in hero levels, farm, map presence efficiently into your mid game will end up burning you if they decide to turtle with better end game.
March I noticed likes safe items, nothing is safer than move speed and Linkens, his teammate Demon likes to be cutesy and gets burned after awhile when people realize his tricks with Blink Dagger/Euls/Force. Trends in items I wouldn't pay too much attention to, changelogs I would, guessing item changes in upcoming versions will pay good dividends. In my experience, 3 things always gets used/abused, anything to change positioning (blink, force, movespeed), anything to improve survivability other than health (Armor, Ghost Wand, Euls), and anything that improves a broke ass skill (Scepter).
I haven't seen any replays of your team other than this one, so my impressions are limited though, but your VS and Necro I feel like if the game wasn't going smoothly, they are more likely to fold than to work through.
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51574 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.fomos.kr/board/news/1278750881_1.jpg)
which one are you? ;p
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United States33584 Posts
On July 10 2010 22:48 GTR wrote:which one are you? ;p
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Good job man!
Winning WCG cant be easy
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Sheesh, now I miss the PH scene, and it seems all the good players here just went up and quit and started working
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On June 18 2010 04:18 2Pacalypse- wrote:
Hehe, as a pretty new enthusiastic Dota player I congratulate you and wishes you best of luck in grand finals!
Now back at noobying on iccup.... if anyone plays Dota on iccup and wanna play msg me!
I do, russians all over the place :o
Congrats Heen!
Are we getting an update? The guys made it past the group stage at WCG Asia and eventually lost to 2nd place finishers Nirvana.my, the whole thing was bo1 though. I'm eager to see the replays
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EPT
