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Hello guys (mb hot girls?  ), since the sc2 was announced i have been looking forward to starcraft2 and as its somehow out i can share my thoughts with people that do understand the game. Some understand it more some less, but we all love it. I must admit that i am quite new to starcraft world as since 2002 i played warcraft 3 at some level, but since the beta come out it was really nothing that could stop me from switch  .
I started the beta in the bronze league (first starcraft games) and after some time i managed to get to diamond yes once the game will be out i can expect myself somewhere in silver may be.
I must say that i spend with every race +- same amount of time and have decided to stay with Toss, but cannot agree at all that the game is balance from my point of view. I am sure that some of you call me noob, some tell me that i need to spend more time with the game and get use to it, yes that is true and i agree - both , but let me explain why do i think the game is not balance and what is according to me the biggest problem for new players.
From my point of view balance is not only matter of units itself, techs and so on, but also the micro/makro requirement and EFFORT in order to win.
Lets take the zerg example. The way this race can makro units is for me rediculous. You can grab all your hatches to 1 or 2 keys and then just press S and Zs or Hs or Rs for whatever unit you want. I know that Z need to maintain the queen spawn larva, but its nothing hard just grab her and pres V on hatch with more hatchs shift V hard hard is that? Compared to protoss or terran, you are hardly ever on 1type of production bulding lets take common terran example: Barracks with tech lab, Barracks with reactor, Factory and Starport all together with command centre you need i think 5 keys, compare to 1 or 2 (usually zerg have 2 bases in most games i believe). And with all this 5 terran buildings you need to use different shortcut for marine, marauder, viking, medievac and so on... so you need to focus much more on this part.
I must say that i understand that from some point such things do not matter, but problem for me is that unless you get to that point Zerg do not need to put such effort in makro as P or T.
I will come with mikro later on(i hope, that somebody will read this)
What do you think?
Thanks for comments
 
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If you have issues with 3-4 buildings then your simply not good enough for the game.
I too play all 3 races, and while my main is Zerg, and I also agree with you that its more simple to macro with Zerg, I would hardly call it an advantage.
Since the MBS, its easy to macro with all 3 races.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
It is probably true that Zergs are easier to macro than the other races, but, in my opinion, that is a good thing. It means that if someone really likes to macro or is simply good at macroing, he can pick Zerg and be happier than if he picked one of the other two races.
The fact that different races are strong for different reasons is a plus, I think.
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Z is the hardest race to macro at higher level play. You have tumors to take care of, spawn larvae must be very precise, and you need to drone/army at the right time.
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I'm mainly a terran player but i've been playing Zerg lately and imo Zerg have the hardest time managing your base. Terran/Protoss is easy in comparison.
Zerg have to spread larva, spawn tumors, spawn larva and keep a balanced army/drone count.
I'd say terran are the easiest to macro with followed by Protoss because of chronoboosting/warp gates and then Zerg for reasons stated above.
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On June 02 2010 00:34 motbob wrote:
It is probably true that Zergs are easier to macro than the other races, but, in my opinion, that is a good thing. It means that if someone really likes to macro or is simply good at macroing, he can pick Zerg and be happier than if he picked one of the other two races.
The fact that different races are strong for different reasons is a plus, I think.
but if macro becomes as important than you'll have big imbalance at lower levels. Take Pvt in BW now. Toss macro is just easier when you start which is why its P>>>>>>>>>T until you reach like C-/C
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Zerg macro has always been easiest for me, both in BW and SC2. I stuck with Z in SC2 just because I'm so used to macro'ing off of hatcheries that I've come to completely suck with rax/facs and gateways even though the playstyles of SC2 and BW zerg feel so different. :X
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Thanks for comments guys, how you can yourself C level player, D level player and so on.. are there any general criteria for that? Or some characteristics of each level?
NonFactor: i would not say that i am not capable of handling 3different production building but truth is that i must focus on pressing the correct custom key for that type of building+correct custom key for correct unit i want to produce, it just take more of my focus then i would like to, its not in my subconscious...
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Yeah, its nice to spawn 100 units and then see them all die against almost any other unit-.-
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I would disagree wholeheartedly. Knowing exactly when you can get away with making drones isn't easy. Timing things so all your larvae pop, you have equal minerals and gas and you have plenty of supply the second your spire goes up isn't easy. Keeping production up to par with your income is tougher than the other races as well because your economy can grow so much faster (or come to a complete halt) than P or T. The steady worker production of P and T makes your economic growth very smooth and predictable with very little guesswork. Unless you're doing an all-in build with major probe/scv cutting you don't have anywhere near the same variation to adjust for. Then of course there are tumors and the fairly unforgiving spawn larvae mechanic.
Admittedly I am a P BW player, but I found P or T sc2 macro much easier for me, personally.
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Vain: well yes they die quickly, but usually its not 100 Zerg units vs 100 toss or terran units right....?
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Well despite all your problems, at least you can't lose the game and your opponents can't win the game.
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n/m, auto post editing prevented what I was trying to show
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On June 02 2010 04:24 3clipse wrote:
n/m, auto post editing prevented what I was trying to show
damn it, did the same thing to me. What I was trying to show was E-A+ are all in Diamond now :\
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On June 02 2010 04:26 selboN wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 04:24 3clipse wrote:
n/m, auto post editing prevented what I was trying to show damn it, did the same thing to me. What I was trying to show was E-A+ are all in Diamond now :\
Yeah, I was trying to do that too.
But I would argue only D+ and above are in Diamond, statistically.
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On June 02 2010 03:46 3clipse wrote:
I would disagree wholeheartedly. Knowing exactly when you can get away with making drones isn't easy. Timing things so all your larvae pop, you have equal minerals and gas and you have plenty of supply the second your spire goes up isn't easy. Keeping production up to par with your income is tougher than the other races as well because your economy can grow so much faster (or come to a complete halt) than P or T. The steady worker production of P and T makes your economic growth very smooth and predictable with very little guesswork. Unless you're doing an all-in build with major probe/scv cutting you don't have anywhere near the same variation to adjust for. Then of course there are tumors and the fairly unforgiving spawn larvae mechanic.
Admittedly I am a P BW player, but I found P or T sc2 macro much easier for me, personally.
This is something I've seen so many people do. The buttons that you press and the number of buildings that you manage do not define macro.
Macro is "actions that set up and utilize your economy." This includes the decision of when to make drones and when to make units. This constant juggling is really hard, especially in SC2 where harassment is currently very powerful against economic Zerg play.
If people are going to say that Zerg macro is easy because you just to have to hit v and spam whatever you want from one hotkey, then Terran macro is twice as easy because you don't even have to decide what to make - you get to make SCVs and units at the same time. This is the reason that macro is not just button pushing and # of buildings.
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On June 02 2010 04:52 DefMatrixUltra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 03:46 3clipse wrote:
I would disagree wholeheartedly. Knowing exactly when you can get away with making drones isn't easy. Timing things so all your larvae pop, you have equal minerals and gas and you have plenty of supply the second your spire goes up isn't easy. Keeping production up to par with your income is tougher than the other races as well because your economy can grow so much faster (or come to a complete halt) than P or T. The steady worker production of P and T makes your economic growth very smooth and predictable with very little guesswork. Unless you're doing an all-in build with major probe/scv cutting you don't have anywhere near the same variation to adjust for. Then of course there are tumors and the fairly unforgiving spawn larvae mechanic.
Admittedly I am a P BW player, but I found P or T sc2 macro much easier for me, personally. This is something I've seen so many people do. The buttons that you press and the number of buildings that you manage do not define macro. Macro is "actions that set up and utilize your economy." This includes the decision of when to make drones and when to make units. This constant juggling is really hard, especially in SC2 where harassment is currently very powerful against economic Zerg play. If people are going to say that Zerg macro is easy because you just to have to hit v and spam whatever you want from one hotkey, then Terran macro is twice as easy because you don't even have to decide what to make - you get to make SCVs and units at the same time. This is the reason that macro is not just button pushing and # of buildings.
do not forget that the ability of execution is key in real time
so the whole macro is not about only decision making but arcade skill too
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EPT
