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Look what I wrote after Flash lost to Effort:
On May 22 2010 22:44 niteReloaded wrote:
Instead of smashing this kid, winning the golden mouse, gaining a shitload of confidence, then beating Jaedong next week and finally being recognized as bonjwa and the greatest SC player to ever walk this earth, he'll now start doubting and 'reinventing' himself which will lead to him losing 3-0 to jaedong where he'll try some stupid shit builds ala fantasy and FAIL. And then OGN and MBC will announce that there will be no more SC1 tournaments and flash will end up in a mad house and we can all kill ourselves.
Looks like he didn FAIL after all.
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On May 30 2010 02:33 samachking wrote:Game 1's build wasnt the same build fantasy uses. Flash's build was a more SK Terran oriented strategy with the same thought, he skipped the wraith/valk, and he skipped on tanks/mines which makes the build way riskier. The build was also oriented towards SK terran rather than the build which fantasy used, which was a 8 tank 2 MnM group push before hive with 1 vessel, whileas Flash went for a standard SK terran push with faster vessels and upgrades to thwart mutas. Game 3, that vulture that saw the hydras incoming was what saved flash imo, otherwise Flash would have no idea if JD went for mutas or hydras, he had 1 hydra on hold with 6 lings to deny vulture scouting. You give fantasy credit but ignore game 2  , which I find hillarious, because that build is a fantasy trademark, the valkinoic 2 group MnM push which zergs never seem to be able to deal with if they open mutas.
Fantasy has used the build from game 1 many times already. The most recent use of it was against Shine where he failed miserably, though.
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On May 30 2010 05:08 De4ngus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 02:33 samachking wrote:Game 1's build wasnt the same build fantasy uses. Flash's build was a more SK Terran oriented strategy with the same thought, he skipped the wraith/valk, and he skipped on tanks/mines which makes the build way riskier. The build was also oriented towards SK terran rather than the build which fantasy used, which was a 8 tank 2 MnM group push before hive with 1 vessel, whileas Flash went for a standard SK terran push with faster vessels and upgrades to thwart mutas. Game 3, that vulture that saw the hydras incoming was what saved flash imo, otherwise Flash would have no idea if JD went for mutas or hydras, he had 1 hydra on hold with 6 lings to deny vulture scouting. You give fantasy credit but ignore game 2 , which I find hillarious, because that build is a fantasy trademark, the valkinoic 2 group MnM push which zergs never seem to be able to deal with if they open mutas. Fantasy has used the build from game 1 many times already. The most recent use of it was against Shine where he failed miserably, though.
You are right, Fantasy has used build 1 a lot. But it dies to 2 hatch muta as it failed against Yarnc and Shine, but it also raped Hyvaa during Winner's League
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I definetly disagree. Flash has been doing builds like game one since his game vs Yarnc on Collo. The "build one of everything" is not Fantasy's build.
Game 2 was Fantasy like
and game 3, the same could be said for Jaedong. He recently saw an Effort VOD where Flash use the same strategy. Doesn't mean if he won game 3 that it would be because of Effort.
I think to say Fantasy inspired Flash is shortsighted...
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Guys, they've said numerous times that they were very close friends (FlaSh and Fantasy). They were in the same clan and lived in the same team house (not TOO sure about this one). So, it's possible that they shared build orders.
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Fantasy got his builds from Iloveoov and Boxer anyway, so he should thank them, like every single terran should olollo
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well flash and fantasy are friends
and fantasy predicted 3-0!
CURIOUS NO?
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On May 30 2010 05:51 dekuschrub wrote:
well flash and fantasy are friends
and fantasy predicted 3-0!
CURIOUS NO?
Fantasy had the most accurate predictions for both finals. First final he said JD would win and that Match Point wasn't as good for T as people thought. This final he said Flash wins and 3-0 is possible. Impressive stuff from Fantasy (now if only he can start playing better again).
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Fantasy will be a good coach no doubt.
gg finals
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The best thing about this MSL is how no one complained about Flash going double cc every single game because he didn't lose.
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
On May 30 2010 08:12 TheMunkey wrote:
Fantasy will be a good coach no doubt.
gg finals
really i bet fantasy would be the worse coach ever
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I disagree with your post. In my opinion, games 1 and 2 (particularly game 1) were extremely EXTREMELY technical timing pushes (a la 6 factory timing push) that were designed to do a LOT of damage, if not end the game there. If flash didn't do a good amount of damage or at least come even (even if jaedong didn't go for a crazy zerg style), I think Flash would have lost easily. I won't go into it to much, but I don't see too much of a resemblance to fantasy's heavy harass, map control/dropship oriented gameplay whatsoever in those games. They more resembled just brilliant builds (if he was a little lucky in not getting 9 pooled on a map where there are tons of easily securable gas expos) with a very specific timing push designed to punish a greedy, late game oriented macro zerg style.
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I think some of the writers will do an analysis of the match later but let me say something about set 1
Flash reverse build-order pwnt JD. Simple as that. He never really scouted JD and did not know he was doing a 2 hatch opening. So, since he went fast Vessel, he would have died like (lol) Fantasy in a game against Shine. 2hatch muta insta kills fast Vessel if no blunder occurs since irradiate upgrade never finishes in time for this, after it does vessels don't live long enough to get mana, and marine count is very low. Had JD made mutas that game he would have won easily imo. However, he did some kind of crazy zerg going straight into ultra-ling-defiler, only to get killed by the high vessel count. It was an innovative build, I don't think I have seen it before, skipping mutas to get super fast 4 gas with no units is really new to me. Not sure what this counters, it could be very map specific or a terrible terrible decision.
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I'd like to hear opinions on one of Rekrul's comments:
Sure in TvZ you can play amazing but general TvZ/ZvT trends suggest that games are generally in zerg's hands to win or lose (obv v v hard vs flash lol).
To what extent is this true/false? Are there any good examples of this (eg. Terran plays perfectly but loses because of Zerg's play)? Would JD have won if both played their A game?
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EPT
