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This thread was promptly closed and dismissed as more Blizzard-bashing. It should be noted that some of the terms that Blizzard claims a right to are illegal (or a liberal misinterpretation of copyright law). That is, they cannot deprive you of a purchased service under certain circumstances:
In particular:
2Bcd are unilateral claims regarding real world transactions. These transactions are legal just about everywhere in the world, but MMO companies are trying to fabricate a common law precedent that this is unlawful.
2D claims that you don't own your RAM.
2E claims that you don't own your hard drive.
2F claims that you cannot use their software for alternative purposes.
2G claims that you don't own your NIC.
The above are invalid claims provided you do not infringe upon 2H, which is a valid claim. As long as you're not tampering with their server or disrupting gameplay, you haven't done anything wrong.
Rich's UDP-blocker for example, is a violation of 2G and Blizzard claims they have the right to revoke your account for such "tampering."
This is only a small issue in the larger battle for software rights, but Blizzard is already way out of bounds and should be reprimanded for their arrogance.
  
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This is a terms of use agreement, meaning that you agree to do this. If you don't agree to these terms, then just don't buy the game. Blizzard is not under a legal obligation to sell you its software with a liberal license agreement.
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I'm with you, but I feel like I'm missing something. I don't have a very good grasp on anything to do with law, but Blizzard seems like too big of a company to have lawyers that would overlook something like this. You do make a very interesting point, though. I'd definitely like to see some more explanation on Blizzard's part
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On May 28 2010 09:33 ramen- wrote:
This is a terms of use agreement, meaning that you agree to do this. If you don't agree to these terms, then just don't buy the game. Blizzard is not under a legal obligation to sell you its software with a liberal license agreement.
You must knowingly forfeit your property rights. It is understood that virtually no user reads or understands these agreements, therefore the claims are invalid.
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On May 28 2010 09:33 ramen- wrote:
This is a terms of use agreement, meaning that you agree to do this. If you don't agree to these terms, then just don't buy the game. Blizzard is not under a legal obligation to sell you its software with a liberal license agreement.
Even so Blizzard cant go out of bounds, like seems to be the case of some of the claims the OP stated
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If you buy their game, you need to agree to their terms. Otherwise, don't buy it. Simple.
Blizzard isn't claiming that you can't modify files on your hard drive if you buy their game. They're claiming that you can't modify their game if you agree to their terms of use. You know that agreement you say you read and understand when you install the game.
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On May 28 2010 09:40 mmp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 09:33 ramen- wrote:
This is a terms of use agreement, meaning that you agree to do this. If you don't agree to these terms, then just don't buy the game. Blizzard is not under a legal obligation to sell you its software with a liberal license agreement. You must knowingly forfeit your property rights. It is understood that virtually no user reads or understands these agreements, therefore the claims are invalid.
Lol what? The claims are invalid because people don't read what they're agreeing too?
Brb, going to "buy" some real estate.
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On May 28 2010 09:40 mmp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 09:33 ramen- wrote:
This is a terms of use agreement, meaning that you agree to do this. If you don't agree to these terms, then just don't buy the game. Blizzard is not under a legal obligation to sell you its software with a liberal license agreement. You must knowingly forfeit your property rights. It is understood that virtually no user reads or understands these agreements, therefore the claims are invalid.
I'm pretty damned sure the law takes precedence over a ToS.
And I'm sure Blizzard are just covering their asses, and they aren't out to hurt you.
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On May 28 2010 09:38 hejakev wrote:
I'm with you, but I feel like I'm missing something. I don't have a very good grasp on anything to do with law, but Blizzard seems like too big of a company to have lawyers that would overlook something like this. You do make a very interesting point, though. I'd definitely like to see some more explanation on Blizzard's part
It's an exaggeration, a stretch, an attempt to forge a common understanding in what is a gray area of the law.
Only because game companies are big can they make presumptuous statements like this and convince a court that they're in the right. It is, in fact, an ongoing legal debate just waiting for another lawsuit.
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Its amazing how alarmist people are over this. blizzard is just protecting its rights and controlling liability. You cannot look at this literally, these are written for lawyers by lawyers.
Yes, blizzard is reserving the right to stop tournaments. Does this mean they are stopping tournaments? no.
Blizzard like most companies more likely than not does a legal risk management. If lets say, you wanted to run a tournament called: the "blizzard is a bunch of nazi fascists and i hope they die" 24 person invitational, they have the ability to shut it down.
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On May 28 2010 09:25 mmp wrote:
This thread should be promptly closed and dismissed as more Blizzard-bashing. It should be noted that this a liberal misinterpretation of terms that Blizzard claims.
Look I can take what you said and spin it how I want, just like you did to the ToS.
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On May 28 2010 09:41 Conquest101 wrote:
If you buy their game, you need to agree to their terms. Otherwise, don't buy it. Simple.
Blizzard isn't claiming that you can't modify files on your hard drive if you buy their game. They're claiming that you can't modify their game if you agree to their terms of use. You know that agreement you say you read and understand when you install the game.
You purchased those bits on your hard drive, you can do what you want with them.
You do not forfeit this right unless you knowingly agree to do so, but this cannot be verified unless licenses make a more opaque statement of what they're claiming. Until then, people will continue to hastily click "Accept." Alternatively, you would need some witness or evidence that it was understood.
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On May 28 2010 09:42 Wohmfg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 09:40 mmp wrote:On May 28 2010 09:33 ramen- wrote:
This is a terms of use agreement, meaning that you agree to do this. If you don't agree to these terms, then just don't buy the game. Blizzard is not under a legal obligation to sell you its software with a liberal license agreement. You must knowingly forfeit your property rights. It is understood that virtually no user reads or understands these agreements, therefore the claims are invalid. I'm pretty damned sure the law takes precedence over a ToS.
If people don't read agreements, then they shouldn't agree to them. The agreement is not in any way deliberately misleading.
The law does take precedent over ToS, but just because it's illegal for someone to steal something from me doesn't mean that if I agree to sell something to someone they're stealing from me when they take it. We agreed to do it, that's why it's called an agreement. In this case, Blizzard says you can use our service if you do these things. Take it or leave it. If you think it's a bad deal, leave it.
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On May 28 2010 09:46 mmp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 09:41 Conquest101 wrote:
If you buy their game, you need to agree to their terms. Otherwise, don't buy it. Simple.
Blizzard isn't claiming that you can't modify files on your hard drive if you buy their game. They're claiming that you can't modify their game if you agree to their terms of use. You know that agreement you say you read and understand when you install the game. You purchased those bits on your hard drive, you can do what you want with them.
Haha this has to be a troll.
User was warned for this post
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On May 28 2010 09:46 mmp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 09:41 Conquest101 wrote:
If you buy their game, you need to agree to their terms. Otherwise, don't buy it. Simple.
Blizzard isn't claiming that you can't modify files on your hard drive if you buy their game. They're claiming that you can't modify their game if you agree to their terms of use. You know that agreement you say you read and understand when you install the game. You purchased those bits on your hard drive, you can do what you want with them. You do not forfeit this right unless you knowingly agree to do so, but this cannot be verified unless licenses make a more opaque statement of what they're claiming. Until then, people will continue to hastily click "Accept." Alternatively, you would need some witness or evidence that it was understood.
This is Battle.Net terms of use. That means that you can modify the bits on your hard drive any way you want. You just won't be able to use Battle.Net at Blizzard's discretion.
I think you mean a more transparent statement of claims, but it's right there for you to read. What part of this agreement do you find difficult to understand?
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On May 28 2010 09:48 ramen- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 09:42 Wohmfg wrote:On May 28 2010 09:40 mmp wrote:On May 28 2010 09:33 ramen- wrote:
This is a terms of use agreement, meaning that you agree to do this. If you don't agree to these terms, then just don't buy the game. Blizzard is not under a legal obligation to sell you its software with a liberal license agreement. You must knowingly forfeit your property rights. It is understood that virtually no user reads or understands these agreements, therefore the claims are invalid. I'm pretty damned sure the law takes precedence over a ToS. If people don't read agreements, then they shouldn't agree to them. The agreement is not in any way deliberately misleading. The law does take precedent over ToS, but just because it's illegal for someone to steal something from me doesn't mean that if I agree to sell something to someone they're stealing from me when they take it. We agreed to do it, that's why it's called an agreement. In this case, Blizzard says you can use our service if you do these things. Take it or leave it. If you think it's a bad deal, leave it.
I don't really understand what you just wrote but I think we agree. I was just pointing out that Blizzard can't break the law just because someone clicks "accept" on a ToS.
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On May 28 2010 09:42 Conquest101 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 09:40 mmp wrote:On May 28 2010 09:33 ramen- wrote:
This is a terms of use agreement, meaning that you agree to do this. If you don't agree to these terms, then just don't buy the game. Blizzard is not under a legal obligation to sell you its software with a liberal license agreement. You must knowingly forfeit your property rights. It is understood that virtually no user reads or understands these agreements, therefore the claims are invalid. Lol what? The claims are invalid because people don't read what they're agreeing too? Brb, going to "buy" some real estate.
You know that joke is actually more aligned to "invalid because people don't read what they're agreeing too" then i think you initially meant making it frankly hilarious to me.
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On May 28 2010 09:42 Conquest101 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 09:40 mmp wrote:On May 28 2010 09:33 ramen- wrote:
This is a terms of use agreement, meaning that you agree to do this. If you don't agree to these terms, then just don't buy the game. Blizzard is not under a legal obligation to sell you its software with a liberal license agreement. You must knowingly forfeit your property rights. It is understood that virtually no user reads or understands these agreements, therefore the claims are invalid. Lol what? The claims are invalid because people don't read what they're agreeing too? Brb, going to "buy" some real estate.
Yes, exactly because no one reads the terms for a computer game versus a license for more important goods and services. There is no means of verifying that a user agreed to the terms as they are presented - therefore Blizzard's claims constitute "fine print."
If Blizzard just said they could ban users for completely arbitrary reasons (such as race, religion, politics) and it was in the ToS, it would still be an illegal overreach of your civil liberties to enjoy a good or service - precisely because a wide audience of people who may be unfairly harmed.
In general, you have a right to use your computer hardware as you like (provided you harm no one else) and it takes far more sophisticated legal statements than this to invalidate your property rights.
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On May 28 2010 09:51 Mooga wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 09:46 mmp wrote:On May 28 2010 09:41 Conquest101 wrote:
If you buy their game, you need to agree to their terms. Otherwise, don't buy it. Simple.
Blizzard isn't claiming that you can't modify files on your hard drive if you buy their game. They're claiming that you can't modify their game if you agree to their terms of use. You know that agreement you say you read and understand when you install the game. You purchased those bits on your hard drive, you can do what you want with them. Haha this has to be a troll.
He just being stupid, So if i pirated software becuase i bought my HDD the pirated software is now mine? Just using his logic.
All that agreement says is don't make 3rd party shit that injects into sc2 for any reason or hack sc2 memory locations/hdd partitions.
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On May 28 2010 09:53 mmp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 09:42 Conquest101 wrote:On May 28 2010 09:40 mmp wrote:On May 28 2010 09:33 ramen- wrote:
This is a terms of use agreement, meaning that you agree to do this. If you don't agree to these terms, then just don't buy the game. Blizzard is not under a legal obligation to sell you its software with a liberal license agreement. You must knowingly forfeit your property rights. It is understood that virtually no user reads or understands these agreements, therefore the claims are invalid. Lol what? The claims are invalid because people don't read what they're agreeing too? Brb, going to "buy" some real estate. Yes, exactly because no one reads the terms for a computer game versus a license for more important goods and services. There is no means of verifying that a user agreed to the terms as they are presented - therefore Blizzard's claims constitute "fine print." If Blizzard just said they could ban users for completely arbitrary reasons (such as race, religion, politics) and it was in the ToS, it would still be an illegal overreach of your civil liberties to enjoy a good or service - precisely because a wide audience of people who may be harmed wouldn't know what they were getting into.
Nope, it's a private service they can do what they want, discrimination for no reason is frankly only auto protected to the elderly obviously you never heard of the boyscouts, You obviously don't know about gym memberships or cell phone contracts either.
"Your defense is i am an idiot, not my fault, blizz is mean took advant(fuck that word is soo long) me by sur prize! Hell me please"
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EPT
