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Flash... to be all honest, he ruins starcraft. lets just take a step back and look at ourselves as we were when we first played starcraft. we all were looking for a game to have fun with. We spent every waking moment we had spare to play this game, why? the underlying factor that we had with it which is that this very game is damn fun to play. as we got better we started to play competitively. and while that's all fine and dandy, flash almost, on a consistent basis tries to remove that underlying factor for his opponents. He spends 14 hours a day 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year, trying to crush his opponents in the most efficient way possible.
However we are not here to watch someone just sit there and remove all fun from a game. We are here for the love of the game. Go back to 2001, were we really enjoying the best player in the world destroy everyone. (by the way, I'm referring to Nada since he was the best at the time.) No, hell no, everyone one and their dog was going out to see boxer show case his remarkable skill to comeback in seemingly impossible situations in the most amazing way possible. He's even stated that he's not here to be the best, he's here to make the game fun and that's what he did. that's not to say we didn't tune into Nada but you know what I'm trying to say.
What I find in the pro-scene nowadays is a very boring meta-game. which is why I like fantasy's play so much, not just for his change to how we think of strategy in TvZ, but his TvP incorporations are incredibly subtle. The dropship tank with vulture support play revives an old style of play that we haven't seen in a long time. He has an aggressive style, but it's incredibly passive. This makes for a dichotomy that separates him from other players.
If we look at the Flash sort of play its very 1-2 punch knock out style of play that is not very forgiving. It pets the terran turtle incredibly like it was a prize winning dog. There really isn't much to it, vs Protoss, late FD to set protoss on the back foot, if toss did a 12 nexus, he would simply plop down an extra bunker and its down hill for you from there. vs Zerg, it's play coincidentally the same, weird push out, forcing back mutas, constant reinforcements and constant pressure takes the zerg out his confort zone, typically making for a later hive, giving flash an extra vessel or two when defilers are out, if the zerg lasts that long. after that it's pretty much lights out because his macro is just too good.
(its like a tv show with the main character's name as the title, you know whats going to happen to him in the end, they'll get what they want or life will shit on them.)
It's... fucking boring god damn it, I remember the first pro-starcraft match i ever watched. It was Boxer vs Garimto, their osl finals. It was spectacular. I was a complete noob back then, and I hadn't even touched the brood war b.net server. I was playing the original starcraft on b.net.... fuck we were terrible, I distinctly remember boxer had made that series just fun to watch, yeah Garimto was good and eventually took it 3-2, but I remember boxer's constant aggression that made him so damn good, ever since i just wanted to be as awesome as boxer was, but now I know I can't do that, but I'm always rooting for the players who are like him.
So, fuck flash, he can be perfect at the damn game for all i care, that doesn't mean I want to see him play the game. I'll take the wavering stats of fantasy over flash any day, because fantasy makes the game exciting.
 
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and here we go with the "Flash is boring, doing the same thing every time" again.
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i want to see him play, thanks.
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I know that when Flash loses, it was a truly exciting game. I'm glad he sets the bar so high.
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Well, I can't say I'm exactly a big fan of Flash either, but really, you shouldn't hate on a progamer for just being so good. If Flash in fact practices 14 hours a day, 7 days a week, as you said, then his success must be deserved. Can you criticize Roger Federer, Kobe Bryant, Lionel Messi (I don't know about football so I looked that one up), Tim Lincecum, and other sports starts for being so good because they put lots of time and effort into their sport? StarCraft is an esport, and as such, wouldn't you say that it's not surprising someone who practices a lot not only wins a lot, but actually deserves to win? I don't think many people practice as much as Flash does, and his constant training and practice have earned his wins.
I personally dislike Flash's play as well, but someone who practices this much blatantly deserves to win, and it should come as no surprise. If everyone practiced as much as Flash did, Flash wouldn't be nearly as dominant as he is now.
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On May 15 2010 13:38 mmp wrote:
I know that when Flash loses, it was a truly exciting game. I'm glad he sets the bar so high.
My thoughts as well. It isnt his fault no one can play at his level consistently, but when they do, epicness results.
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gamers appreciate flash because he also has subtle differences in his play (it might be his wall-ins, his upgrades, anything) and his overwhelming skill. he's a model of skill we can all look up to and appreciate.
i do agree that boxer brought more to esports than any new progamer probably will; he had strategies that even people new to the game could appreciate (lol, this video sums it up
+ Show Spoiler +
and that people who had played the game could appreciate for their brilliance as well. However, progamers these days are so weathered to all kinds of strategies so that such plays would be extremely hard to pull off today. The game is getting more and more refined everyday, and while flash might have less fans, he will certainly have a fanbase that is extremely devoted to the game as he is.
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i used to hate flash for being a boring turtle too but his play style is definitely more entertaining and aggressive these days. plus hes innovative, at least to a certain degree. sure hes no fantasy, but hes better to watch than most robot terran players: really, light, sea, etc
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Huh? I'm pretty sure he dropped a game to MVP bro. Give him some respect.
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Flash is the only reason i'm still following SC1. You can feel the history working, people will envy you that you could watch flash live in few years. He is the last bonwja, in a 10 yr old game that was supposed to be figured out. He plays perfect starcraft, watching flash makes you realize how many mistakes other players make. He ruins starcraft? No way, the others are just so much worse. You shouldn't blame flash, but the other players that they are unable to come even close to his position.
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Belgium6777 Posts
you kids...
I used to complain about robot players back when oov still reigned
when flash finally falls, thats when you'll realize how much you actually respect his play, mark my words!
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I don't watch much pro Starcraft anymore but the talk of Flash reminds me so much of Oov. The guy was so unbeatable for a time that it seemed like he just broke the game.
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Flash is a genius and I thoroughly enjoy watching every single game he plays. When you see him have a 'Flash moment' like taking out 4 lurkers with 5 marines, it's just awe-inspiring to watch.
I probably would have stopped watching SC1 games by now if not for Flash, in fact.
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I don't love or hate Flash but his play is so ridiculously good it's just a joy to watch.
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I don't even remember the last time he took about 4 lurkers with 5 marines even with in this year, but i don't really watch his games very often.
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uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh youre a .......
A bad word.
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So you hate him just because he wins?
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ugh.... I hate him.... because he's not fun to watch.
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I still have no idea how you can call that boring. No idea at all. It's your opinion, I guess...
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On May 15 2010 14:02 dtnmang wrote:
So you hate him just because he wins?
i hate him because he wins badly (as in completely owns his opponents)
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On May 15 2010 14:05 Subtitled wrote:
ugh.... I hate him.... because he's not fun to watch.
On May 15 2010 13:52 Subtitled wrote:
I don't even remember the last time he took about 4 lurkers with 5 marines even with in this year, but i don't really watch his games very often.
Welp... there we go... Let me tell you this though, you are about a year late of the "Flash is not fun" bandwagon. A year ago this would have been a little believable. just a little.
Edit: watch flash vs by.hero on HBR. Im not sure with the numbers but there was a pretty nifty lurker vs marines in that game.
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On May 15 2010 14:11 saltywet wrote:i hate him because he wins badly (as in completely owns his opponents)
you should hate the players that aren't good enough to compete with him.
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On May 15 2010 14:12 iLoveKT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2010 14:05 Subtitled wrote:
ugh.... I hate him.... because he's not fun to watch. Show nested quote +On May 15 2010 13:52 Subtitled wrote:
I don't even remember the last time he took about 4 lurkers with 5 marines even with in this year, but i don't really watch his games very often. Welp... there we go... Let me tell you this though, you are about a year late of the "Flash is not fun" bandwagon. A year ago this would have been a little believable. just a little. Edit: watch flash vs by.hero on HBR. Im not sure with the numbers but there was a pretty nifty lurker vs marines in that game.
For the HBR game vs Hero. If we're talking about the same drop here, he got 4 lurkers and about a dozen lings. Before the army came he got a couple drones as well. What a champ.
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....stop complaining, sooner or later the waves are gonna come down crashing.
i admit, i would like to see some special ballsy moves like boxer if he can lol.
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I think the most interesting games come from when one or both players turtle intelligently.
Flash vs Movie on hbr was the coolest game ever.
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It all depends on my mood. If I want to see the beauty of perfect Starcraft, the options are very limited. You have Flash - or Jaedong or Stork on their good days. Flash, while maybe not the most creative player ever, displays a mastery of the game day-to-day not seen since the heights of Ma Bonjwa's success, if ever. Mastery of almost anything is beautiful just in its quality; on top of this Flash's play is constantly varied even though it's constantly godlike.
Admitted: if I want flair and spark, I may not watch Flash play. I will likely watch fantasy, Horang2, Boxer, ZerO, EffOrt, Nal_rA, Leta, YellOw. But this debate occurs in every sport. I know American sports best, so I'll mention one major one from our football: whose peak is better, Favre or Manning? Flair and showmanship that wins, or perfection that wins?
What we appreciate most, of course, is the times when flair and showmanship is "perfection". This is why Boxer is a legend - or whoever else in whatever sport. Pele, Jordan, Babe Ruth. But Flash's play possesses a different spark. It's not for everyone all the time, I guess, so I won't convince you that you have to like it. But you have to admire it. You have to admit what it is.
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doesn't look like to many people share your opinion subtitled hahaha
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On May 15 2010 14:17 johanes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2010 14:11 saltywet wrote:On May 15 2010 14:02 dtnmang wrote:
So you hate him just because he wins? i hate him because he wins badly (as in completely owns his opponents) you should hate the players that aren't good enough to compete with him.
that would leave out all the players except jaedong and stork
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I don't understand how someone can be into BW but not admire and enjoy flash's play atm. It's not like he's boring either, he's been mixing up his strats and executing them to perfection. He had firebats in free's mineral line the other day ffs.
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On May 15 2010 13:31 Subtitled wrote:
If we look at the Flash sort of play... There really isn't much to it
Troll or 9 post noob?
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On May 15 2010 14:12 iLoveKT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2010 14:05 Subtitled wrote:
ugh.... I hate him.... because he's not fun to watch. Show nested quote +On May 15 2010 13:52 Subtitled wrote:
I don't even remember the last time he took about 4 lurkers with 5 marines even with in this year, but i don't really watch his games very often. Welp... there we go... Let me tell you this though, you are about a year late of the "Flash is not fun" bandwagon. A year ago this would have been a little believable. just a little. Edit: watch flash vs by.hero on HBR. Im not sure with the numbers but there was a pretty nifty lurker vs marines in that game.
Hey you want to know what's funny, that game happened in 2009 
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Baltimore, USA22259 Posts
Terrible thread. You're complaining about a professional for being good at something he is paid to be good at, from the perspective of someone who plays at a recreational level.
That's like hating an NFL line-backer for being good at his job just because you like to play backyard football with your buddies. Get real.
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EPT
