Self-taught piano players?

On May 12 2010 07:56 phosphorylation wrote:
please refrain from concentrating on so much lightweight (and that's being nice) stuff like yiruma
there are just so much better things to play
improvisation is something you can learn later when you have the basics down

I stopped playing piano when I was 8 yrs old lol, so when I started trying to pick it up again about 10 years later, it was almost like a new instrument... I suppose I had innately learned some basics when I was 8, I guess, but it was unbelievably hard.

My advice is this. Find ONE moderately difficult song for you, that you absolutely love listening to. I did that with Yiruma's "River Flows In You", which is a beautiful song, somewhat technically challenging, but is still possible to learn. Then, play ONLY that song a bajillion times, listen to how the original player plays it, the speed, the feeling, the crescendos and decrescendos... then you'll become incredibly good at that one song. However, just from that, you'll really learn how to use both hands (I was a clarinet player so two simultaneous lines of music was WTF at first lol), and it will go MILES in teaching you about how to play piano.

I did what I just described, and though I'm very slow at learning new pieces... every time I play a piece I learned, people think I've been playing piano my entire life. It's just that I focused so much energy and heart and spirit into only ONE piece at a time, that I master it, and THEN move on. Because no matter what, us late beginners can't catch up to the professional kids, so there's no point in trying to learn everything... just learn what you really enjoy and love. For me, I loved Yiruma's "River Flows in You" & "Maybe" & "Kiss the Rain", "Une comptine d'un autre ete" by Yann Tiersen, and some others. I suggest you find what you love.

There's also a really, really cool side effect with absolutely mastering one piece. For me, that was "River Flows in You." I can now play 1000x different improvised variations of that song, because I have innately learned the chords so well, that I can freestyle on the spot with no problem. I'm no musical genius, I just played that song so many times. You'll be able to use those chords to compose your own songs, and be completely creative... it's a great feeling. So many of my hardcore-piano friends can't do ANY of that (and they're extremely insane at piano, national-level), because they've been so hardwired into learning other people's pieces. Enjoy yourself and you'll realize you might be doing something that no one else can do.

I wrote so much, but that's cuz I absolutely love piano now. I picked it up so late, like when I was 18 yrs old or so... and it took like 3/4 months for me to finally master just that one song, lol. But it was definitely worth it for me.

On May 12 2010 08:03 Wings wrote:

... that was the first piece I ever played, cut me some slack lol. You think I'd pick up the 1812 overture from the beginning?

On May 12 2010 08:29 phosphorylation wrote:
lol i think, at least in terms of piano knowledge, i don't consider myself stupid at all
i dont feel like brandishing my credentials here, but it's enough to say i have a lot of experience
possibly more ignorant is the person who thought 1812 overture is a piano piece

i also really despise people who consider everything that cannot be quantified as subjective
oh no music is really superior to others... it's all matters of personal taste!
BS
while there is an element of personal preference, more important are careful judgment of artistic merit and substance
now, i would really like to see you argue that shakespeare's writing cannot be judged better than that of a 6-year old

On May 12 2010 09:13 phosphorylation wrote:
maga33: i think you have the right attitude and approach but i hope for your sake that you eventually get into -- pardon my elitism -- real music

for the technical drills, i recommend that you look into hanon exercises
people rag on them all the time, but it's still the best tool there is (brahms' and liszt's exercises would be too difficult)
sometimes, i play through the whole book in one sitting (takes around 1-2 hours) and my technique gets a +2 upgrade

On May 12 2010 09:39 HCastorp wrote:
I am a piano teacher, and have taught many beginners, both children and adults. As you might expect, my no. 1 suggestion is that you take a few lessons but even without that, this is my advice:

a) the person who mentioned finding one piece you really want to play and focusing on that is very wise. I recommend that to all of my older beginning students. It is a great way to motivate yourself, much more fun and interesting than slogging through all of the boring pieces in beginner books. That said . . .

b) In the long run, for most people, what will make playing most rewarding is being able to learn music quickly and easily. There are two ways to learn a piece, by reading the notes or by playing by ear.

To learn to read music, the best thing to do is **play a lot of easy stuff**. "but nothing is easy for me" you say - well then, what you need to do is find the easiest books you can - method books aimed at adults, but those aimed at children are good too. A lot of the pieces will be stupid/boring, but that's okay, you are just using them for reading practice. I can recommend some books along these lines if you are interested. Having a background in this kind of reading practice will makes things far, far easier when it comes to playing what you really want - no matter what that happens to be.

To learn to play by ear, pick songs you know well. Nursery songs are good. Pick a starting note and try to sound it out. Depending on where you started, you will probably have to use some black keys. Thats good too. Depending on how good your ear is it might be hard - if you are having trouble, ask yourself these questions about very note: "is it higher or lower than the note before it?" and "is it nearby, or far away?" then just use trial and error. Unless you have a pretty good ear, it will be difficult to learn much beyond simple melodies without some theory knowledge, but there are many books that can help you. Most piano methods aimed at adults contain at least a little theory instruction to get you started.

As far as technique goes, I will probably be flamed for this, but my advice is not to worry about it. I say this because without good instruction, you won't know what good technique is, and if you don't now what it is, thinking about it will probably just make you more tense than playing "naturally" would. Hanon is a very good thing to do, but you will get way more out of it with a teacher. The songs you will play in the beginnging will probably be playable even with very poor technique anyway.

If you want to see perfect technique (in the sense of the *way* things are done, not in the sense of fastest, loudest, most accurate, etc.) you can watch videos of rubinstein on youtube.

This is very sound advice. However, I disagree with some minor points. I simply don't recommend learning to play by ear. To me, this is a just a temporary solution and is doomed to be limiting. While i agree technique isn't very important at the earliest stages, once you are slightly better I find it critically important to do the hanon exercises. And I strongly recommend that you get some feedback (from a pianist, a teacher, or, hell, even upload a vid and show us) at least once, so that how you are practicing is roughly correct and helpful

On May 12 2010 10:02 HCastorp wrote:


About playing by ear:

To clarify, I do not believe that one should aim to play by ear rather than learn to read music. Unless your ear is very, very good (and you probably already know it if that is the case) reading music will open more doors to you than playing by ear. Reading music is my main focus with every single one of my beginning students. But playing by ear is often overlooked, and I think it is an important thing to attempt. Many people look at it as some sort of "magical" ability, whereas in reality almost anyone can do it at least a little bit. Being able to quickly figure out any simple melody is part of being a well-rounded musician, and is fun and accessible to even the less-skilled.

On May 12 2010 10:02 HCastorp wrote:
whereas in reality almost anyone can do it at least a little bit. .

On May 12 2010 09:13 phosphorylation wrote:
maga33: i think you have the right attitude and approach but i hope for your sake that you eventually get into -- pardon my elitism -- real music