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*To remove bias, I am not asking for a beta key at all. I have already played the game on a friend's account and am done with the game. If you have seen me post in one of these beta key contests, it is because I would like to win a key for a friend*
Hello again,
So I am thoroughly impressed by the sheer quantity of the 500 beta keys being sent to TL, but it really got me thinking. Browsing through the pages, I couldn't help but notice every 3rd or 4th person had 2 posts or less. I checked the profiles and a good 98% of these below 2-posters had joined TL on that day. Obviously the word got out through various other websites "hey go to TL they have 500 free beta keys!". That's fair enough. I would probably join TL just for this reason. And while all these contests to see who can go to a fastfood restaurant first or do some silly task first makes this beta contest quite fun to try to take part in, they really favour this new TLer who just joined a day ago simply due to the MASS of them joining and f5ing like there is no tomorrow to get another key.
What I am trying to say is that a GOOD NUMBER (I would say at least half to a majority) of these beta keys are being handed out to complete random people who just joined TL ONLY to get a beta key. I can also safely assume that a good majority of these players hardly even touched BW or iccup or anything for that matter. In other words they just want to play beta for a month or two, get tired of it, and move onto the next game. Anybody who can't understand that clearly does not understand the difference between a casual and competitive gamer.
The problem that bothers me is not that these new TLers are getting keys, it is that the majority of these keys will probably be wasted. They will be played for a couple months, and then will not be touched after the player gets bored. Why is this bad? Because this is really not beneficial to SC2 as a BETA.
Ever wonder why TL received 500keys? 500! That's massive!
The obvious reason is because Blizzard thought, "hey...we need more of these experienced starcraft players to play our beta. We need good feedback, a player who will play more than 1-2 months worth or playing. TL is really the MAIN resource for English speaking competitive starcraft gamers. We have already sent out many beta keys just based on random players, but if we send 500 beta keys to TL, we can be sure that these beta keys will be used well".
How can I be sure of this? In an interview with Dustin Browder, I read that they are trying to keep the number of players around 10,000. When you think about it, 500 is a GOOD portion of that. If they had ENOUGH competitive gamers, they woulda stuck with the original 50. Sending 500 sends an obvious message that they WANT some more competitive gamers.
So what do I propose? That THE MAJORITY of these beta keys get sent to experienced TLers. I am not necessarily talking ONLY 3000+ posts or ONLY 1000+ posts, I am simply saying that by giving these beta keys to 1-2 posters, it really does disservice to Blizzard. Not only that, but to be blunt, it is a bit of a waste to get non-competitive players to use them all because not only will they be done with them in 2 months, but there are ALREADY many non-competitive gamers that received beta. I am simply proposing that while some of these beta key contests should be fair and equal, I believe a MAJORITY of them should be for more-than-average EXPERIENCED TLers. Not only will that be good for the BETA, but that will reward the REAL competitive gamers who DESERVE a key.
And I am sorry if I offended you new TLers, but I believe that the beta is meant for TESTING, not just for graphics and cool animations.
Again I just want to state that I am not asking for an extreme change, I am just proposing that, for the reasons I explained above, that a majority of these beta keys are given to owners who will use them to benefit the game.
 
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I have a high post count and am definitely not an experienced competitive RTS player, lots of people come here for progaming first and strategy second.
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It's hard to judge who is worthy though. Using my own situation as an example, i've been on TL for over 3 years, watching proleague whenever i can and i play bw constantly, but i bet people around here barely know me. i'm not asking for a key but you need to also propose a viable solution to farely judge people.
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well it does seem 'unfair' but u obviously havent noticed that most, not all but most of these keys given away require deep knowlage of the TL comunity or some skill in BW. i see ur point but i dont think its too big of deal.
im trying to win a key for a friend who probably doesnt even have 5 posts and hardly visits the site xD
so even 'experianced' accounts could be given out keys to noob friends.
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Well, I would disagree with you, but I might be biased because I myself am a fairly new member. That said, I really think that the problem behind your logic is that you assume TeamLiquid is kind of like a gentleman's club or a secret society - that is, it is extremely hard to get in and be accepted, and once you're in, you're still going to be somewhat shunned for being "the new guy" and not having been there for a while. The thing is, the reason I joined TeamLiquid is because it's a very open community - yes, it doesn't tolerate bullshit from idiots, but mature, thoughtful new people are welcomed in, and given exactly the same respect and consideration as those who have been here 5 years or more. If you restrict the beta key from new members, it will just create an image that TL is a secret club a la G.R.O.S.S or something, and that new people are not welcome, which is exactly the opposite of the image that TL wants.
Also, I would disagree, I don't think the admins are just giving beta keys to "1-2 posters" (unless those posters happen to win one of the contests randomly, I guess). I've noticed that most of the contests/scavenger hunts require at least basic knowledge of the TL community/recognition within that community (for example, the Beta Key Scholarship thread). I could, of course, totally be wrong, but that's the impression I get.
Finally, your apology makes no sense - us newbies know the beta is for testing too. How on earth is your postcount a good measure for how much use you'll extract out of the beta? I'm willing to bet there are some people here with thousands of posts who would be just as good of a betatester as a newbie like me or brotosterone would be.
So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. But remember - not all new members are just 1-2 posters who heard that TL has beta keys and want to get one. Some of us are actually interested in being a positive addition to this community, and if you restrict beta keys like that, you just sell us short.
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On April 21 2010 11:23 BrownBear wrote:
yes, it doesn't tolerate bullshit from idiots, but mature, thoughtful new people are welcomed in, and given exactly the same respect and consideration as those who have been here 5 years or more.
Hate to say it but this isn't true at all. Post count and date joined gets you WAY more respect in TL.
Anyway that's off topic though. Yeah I am sure that it CAN be hard to determine who deserves it and who doesn't, but giving them away to 1-2 posters compared to giving them away to 2000-3000 posters I believe is a pretty obvious difference. Hell, even 1-2 posters compared to 200-300 posters is huge.
Like I metioned, I think it's fine to give away SOME to the noobies, but I believe the majority should be given to more experienced TLers.
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I was hoping that they have a beta key giving fest like "1st 500 users to post in this topic to get free key" lol but i'll guess all the beta key contest now are impossible for ppl who are at work T_T
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Uhh, they're being distributed in a fair fashion. Yes, a portion is being given to those who have given back to the community, but those who are new also get chances to partake in random drawings, random competitions, and the other methods that TL is going through to give away keys at the moment.
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I agree, it feels backwards to me to present a "come for the beta-key stay for the community" type of mentality. What bothers me isn't that the keys are going to waste, its that the keys aren't staying within the community TL. The new posters who come screeching looking for a beta a key never wanted to be part of the starcraft community in the first place, when bw was bustling they didn't care but now when there's something to win they're all over and I doubt they're coming back. What especially gets me are the people who justify it by saying they were long time lurkers on the site; they visited TL for however long and never once wanted to be part of it. I'm not saying the new influx of people aren't all thoughtful and intelligent poster to-be with a deep love of sc, but it pisses me off to think they never gave a shit before. After they've taken their keys whats changed? What stop's them from going bacl into the woodwork from whence they came?
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IDK seemed like Blizzard gave TL extra keys, because TL did a 50 key give away and had contests etc, and they liked how TL went about distributing the keys.
The contest is a great way to hype of the game, get peoples interest, get new posters on TL, etc. Many of the contests are tailored for people who have been around TL, so can't complain there.
Also, the fact your posting this seems like you don't have any faith in TL at all, which is kinda saddening since your not even new.
Tl will do a great job, yes some newbs will get keys, but its for the community as well. If they join because of this and become close within TL latter on its for the best, its a chance worth taking.
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Wouldn't giving a key away to a 2 post member be the definition of unbiased anti-favortism key giving awayage?
Turning new members away who come for SC2 because they weren't here before is kinda elitist. You are assuming that these people that won the keys will just disappear into the night never to be seen again when they very well could stay for the next 5 years and fall in love with SC2. So far it all looks fair to me.
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On April 21 2010 11:46 n.DieJokes wrote:
I agree, it feels backwards to me to present a "come for the beta-key stay for the community" type of mentality. What bothers me isn't that the keys are going to waste, its that the keys aren't staying within the community TL. The new posters who come screeching looking for a beta a key never wanted to be part of the starcraft community in the first place, when bw was bustling they didn't care but now when there's something to win they're all over and I doubt they're coming back. What especially gets me are the people who justify it by saying they were long time lurkers on the site; they visited TL for however long and never once wanted to be part of it. I'm not saying the new influx of people aren't all thoughtful and intelligent poster to-be with a deep love of sc, but it pisses me off to think they never gave a shit before. After they've taken their keys whats changed? What stop's them from going bacl into the woodwork from whence they came?
Sums up my thoughts exactly.
That being said, I'm also having a bit of a gripe about how they are being distributed. I'd rather be seeing stuff like the old cake contest or make a guide contest being held. Something that's user generated that can contribute to the community. The whole "post pic of you holding a sign that says I want a beta key" kind of got on my nerves.
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Hmmm, you may be correct, but I change my mind too easily... Just a few minutes ago I posted that I thought girls should be given more keys as a form of affirmative action. Now I think competitive gamers should be given the key so they can actually test the game.
On April 21 2010 11:18 jalstar wrote:
I have a high post count and am definitely not an experienced competitive RTS player, lots of people come here for progaming first and strategy second.
I can assure you... anyone with 1000 posts on here has a far higher skill than the average BW player. Or at least they probably do since they read so much on starcraft.
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i can beat friends and the computer simply by knowing what units to make
i get raped on iccup and i don't play on b.net any more because of hax
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I have a nightmarish vision... hordes of pbu coming back to TL to get beta keys...
+ Show Spoiler +
And Tdot getting one. lolol
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On April 21 2010 11:33 Zapdos_Smithh wrote:
Hate to say it but this isn't true at all. Post count and date joined gets you WAY more respect in TL.
Fair enough, I worded that kind of poorly. What I meant to say was, yes, having a higher post count gives you more respect in TL, and greater leeway for breaking the rules, but at the same time, if a random guy joins up and makes a thoughtful, mature post, it's still going to be considered to be just as legitimate as something that, say, Chill makes, or Waxangel, or GTR, or any veteran. The community broadcasts the message "Yes, we value our veterans, but we welcome all new people, and we give them all an equal chance to prove themselves to be mature people who want to contribute to this community." Yes, there are a bunch of idiots who make terrible posts and get banned, but there are also newbies who will probably end up being pillars of the community someday. There is favoritism in TL, but it's acceptable favoritism, and to restrict any number of keys to forum veterans would be viewed as unacceptable favoritism, and even elitism. That's the major problem I have.
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On April 21 2010 12:26 Boblion wrote:I have a nightmarish vision... hordes of pbu coming back to TL to get beta keys... + Show Spoiler +
And Tdot getting one. lolol
ROFL! That would be so bad...
A bit funny, but still so bad!!!
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totally agree.. im waiting for a key =) i trust in tl.net staff decisions.
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I'm new to TL, I play Starcraft quite competitively, and I've been following VOD's for ages (I actually found out about TL through Husky and HDStarcraft..), but I've got to sympathize with the veterans of the site, and say that it would be a flat-out shame for you guys to see 500 beautiful keys go away to new members who are "casual" gamers, as you stated. I'd be just as pissed off if that happened to me, and thus I can definitely relate to what you're saying. The right thing to do is to give the vast majority of the keys to those who show more interest in the TL community, as there is almost certainly a correlation between those people and the competitiveness of their play.
I'm sure the mod's will do the right thing.
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CA10828 Posts
On April 21 2010 12:08 ZoW wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 11:46 n.DieJokes wrote:
I agree, it feels backwards to me to present a "come for the beta-key stay for the community" type of mentality. What bothers me isn't that the keys are going to waste, its that the keys aren't staying within the community TL. The new posters who come screeching looking for a beta a key never wanted to be part of the starcraft community in the first place, when bw was bustling they didn't care but now when there's something to win they're all over and I doubt they're coming back. What especially gets me are the people who justify it by saying they were long time lurkers on the site; they visited TL for however long and never once wanted to be part of it. I'm not saying the new influx of people aren't all thoughtful and intelligent poster to-be with a deep love of sc, but it pisses me off to think they never gave a shit before. After they've taken their keys whats changed? What stop's them from going bacl into the woodwork from whence they came? Sums up my thoughts exactly. That being said, I'm also having a bit of a gripe about how they are being distributed. I'd rather be seeing stuff like the old cake contest or make a guide contest being held. Something that's user generated that can contribute to the community. The whole "post pic of you holding a sign that says I want a beta key" kind of got on my nerves.
we're doing a combination of giveaways. some will take a lot more effort than others, that's just how it goes.
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EPT
