I've been out of the loop, but I did some poking around due to the Waxangel thread.
You know how I always went around saying progamers started losing because the fame and money got them distracted by girls / alcohol etc?
I was wrong.
Savior, anytime, luxury, and many other progamers have been caught 100% proven cheating. Being arrested and taken to court no joke.
Their 'slumps' happened because betting sites/rings paid them 10-20k at times to throw games and they finally got caught.
The korean esports world is handling it as quietly as possible so that the industry isn't harmed by the news which is why you merely only see rumors floating around, but they are no rumors.
Unfortunately for the progaming industry, assholes like me exist.
I'm not sure about the details but it is confirmed. I will try to get as many names, amounts, and details as possible in the near future!
in waxangel's thread you said you never found any proof
On April 10 2010 12:38 Rekrul wrote: i've always believed that there is match fixing, cheating, and other stuff though never really found any proof
throughout gaming history, people have chosen to cheat in so many ways to gain edges, even kids like testie would hack just so that they could feel better about themselves and be king of the internet
are we really naive enough to believe that everyone would be honorable in the platform with the most at stake?
but now you have some? how did you get it so quickly?
On April 10 2010 12:38 Rekrul wrote: i've always believed that there is match fixing, cheating, and other stuff though never really found any proof
throughout gaming history, people have chosen to cheat in so many ways to gain edges, even kids like testie would hack just so that they could feel better about themselves and be king of the internet
are we really naive enough to believe that everyone would be honorable in the platform with the most at stake?
but now you have some? how did you get it so quickly?
This thread is about to get serious. Wait threre's a slight possiblity it might be a troll but then again..rekrul's never made a thread where it was a troll before..(progaming gossip 1 and 2,why foriegners suck etc)
If you've been out of the loop, who is in the loop and knows which progamers have been throwing games? I don't remember hearing about any of the big names being arrested or called to court (savior, anytime, etc.?)
If this sort of thing happens all the time, then couldn't it also be possible that other forms of match fixing also exist? Teams could also throw PL matches or who knows what...
I'm not surprised. seriously, there is a lot of money floating around because of them, and they dont get paid that much in comparison. throwing games is a problem in any psort where this happens.
On April 10 2010 13:29 Nytefish wrote: Don't know what the panic is about, Rek's sources are clearly a pile of recreational drugs he's currently blitzing through.
What the fuck?! this has completely shattered my view on progaming in Korea, i always knew there were some fishy stuff going on like the Hwasin deal at WCG and similar stuff, but nothing this big.
The way they were talking to their fans in their interviews about how they wanted to do their best in the future, get out of their slumps and whatever. All of that was bullshit =/
On April 10 2010 13:30 grobo wrote: What the fuck?! this has completely shattered my view on progaming in Korea, i always knew there were some fishy stuff going on like the Hwasin deal at WCG and similar stuff, but nothing this big.
May you enlighten me on this "Hwasing thing at WCG"?
On April 10 2010 13:29 Nytefish wrote: Don't know what the panic is about, Rek's sources are clearly a pile of recreational drugs he's currently blitzing through.
nope
Care to back that up? I think my sources are better than yours, at least the last few pills were definitely very convincing creatures.
On April 10 2010 13:30 grobo wrote: What the fuck?! this has completely shattered my view on progaming in Korea, i always knew there were some fishy stuff going on like the Hwasin deal at WCG and similar stuff, but nothing this big.
May you enlighten me on this "Hwasing thing at WCG"?
Hwasin and Calm (teammates) rigging the games iirc.
Bad form (attention whoring) to make this thread without hard evidence presented at the same time, but I gotta say I'm curious to see what is actually behind this.
On April 10 2010 13:30 grobo wrote: What the fuck?! this has completely shattered my view on progaming in Korea, i always knew there were some fishy stuff going on like the Hwasin deal at WCG and similar stuff, but nothing this big.
May you enlighten me on this "Hwasing thing at WCG"?
But this still doesn't make sense. I think that sAviOr, anytime, etc. are legitimately bad nowadays; you can't bet against yourself if you lose in fucking offline qualifiers.
On April 10 2010 13:39 Try wrote: But this still doesn't make sense. I think that sAviOr is legitimately bad nowadays; you can't bet against yourself if you lose in fucking offline qualifiers.
So if you're savior you might as well ship that freeloss money. If I was savior and anyone offered to pay me to lose a game vs a better player I'd insta-call.
On April 10 2010 13:42 Luddite wrote: rekrul man you need to start a tabloid that focuses on the seedy underside of progaming. Like the "national enquirer" of progaming or something.
Yeah... he could try to come up with a cool name for it, such as "Progamer Gossip". Yeah, that's it! And maybe he could even post regular updates in the forums. I like the sound of this idea!
Pray this is a joke - that's something we can look back on and laugh at, but if it's real it's going to do terrible terrible damage to eSports and that's not a joke -.-
On April 10 2010 13:44 iCCup.deL wrote: Pray this is a joke - that's something we can look back on and laugh at, but if it's real it's going to do terrible terrible damage to eSports and that's not a joke -.-
I don't see how this could be funny in any way, even if fake.
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
They must have been bribed more than that. A starleague title has a $40K prize for first place iirc
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
lol 20k is alot of money, if someone said to me 'hey you want this trophy or 20k?' id take the 20k lol
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
lol 20k is alot of money, if someone said to me 'hey you want this trophy or 20k?' id take the 20k lol
Yeah that makes more sense, cause you are not guaranteed first place..
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
lol 20k is alot of money, if someone said to me 'hey you want this trophy or 20k?' id take the 20k lol
During savior dominance with prize money factored in he was making like 2 mil a year in US dollars.
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
Lol, honor over $$. How many people actually abide by this?
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
What if it's just some ramdom proleague game though? Or of it's in like the Ro16 and your odds of winning the MSL/OSL are really slim? Pretty tempting to take the guaranteed money then.
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
Hmmm... take guaranteed money or try to beat Flash Bo5... WWJD?
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
Hmmm... take guaranteed money or try to beat Flash Bo5... WWJD?
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
Hmmm... take guaranteed money or try to beat Flash Bo5... WWJD?
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
lol 20k is alot of money, if someone said to me 'hey you want this trophy or 20k?' id take the 20k lol
During savior dominance with prize money factored in he was making like 2 mil a year in US dollars.
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
They must have been bribed more than that. A starleague title has a $40K prize for first place iirc
Yeah but you have to win the games first. Are any of the names Rek mentioned major starleague contenders?
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
the amounts could have been much bigger
when you're as famous as savior your $ expectation is really not that much bigger than the difference between 2nd and 1st place (unless contract renegotiation time is soon). and anyways, even if you're trying your hardest you're not guaranteed to win so you can lock up free $.
of course it's retarded and risky and dishonorable to take a bribe like that, but when you're a naive video game playing kid and someone is waving tens of thousands of dollars in your face...it's hard for a person to see the big picture.
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
It's not like that. 1) 10K to 20K instant cash 2) Zero change of MSL/OSL title because you are burned out and are past your prime and have a very slim chance of making it through to even the ro8.
You know, when a certain scandal in progaming was being discussed, Rekrul made a comment to the effect of: "If you guys knew the real worst scandal in gaming your heads would explode." When I read Waxangel's blog, I immediately thought "OMG THIS IS IT!" But since Rek didn't have any prior proof of it, I guess not...
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
They must have been bribed more than that. A starleague title has a $40K prize for first place iirc
Yeah but you have to win the games first. Are any of the names Rek mentioned major starleague contenders?
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
lol 20k is alot of money, if someone said to me 'hey you want this trophy or 20k?' id take the 20k lol
During savior dominance with prize money factored in he was making like 2 mil a year in US dollars.
Um?
Lol yeah pretty vague memory not really sure but i swear there is a thread laying around here just about how much money savior was making.
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
lol 20k is alot of money, if someone said to me 'hey you want this trophy or 20k?' id take the 20k lol
During savior dominance with prize money factored in he was making like 2 mil a year in US dollars.
On April 10 2010 13:14 micronesia wrote: On what criminal charges exactly would the gamers be arrested?
most forms of gambling including sportsbetting are illegal in korea
Yes, but what would the progamer get in trouble for? They weren't the ones gambling.
lol u have to be joking, most modern countries have tons of laws against accepting bribes to throw matches in competitions
No I'm not joking I just want to understand the reasoning behind the person throwing the match to be arrested... is it that they are accomplices to gambling, and that gambling is illegal? Other than that I don't see logic behind penalties except those imposed by the sports agency. There is no such law that says "you can't throw a match".
I'm willing to bet Kingdom is 100% on that list rekrul.
I made a thread when I was in korea live-watching a game about how it was the most obvious throw of a sc pro game ever and all people did was give me shit and excuses even though it was obvious to a 1 year newbie to sc who shoulda won.
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
lol 20k is alot of money, if someone said to me 'hey you want this trophy or 20k?' id take the 20k lol
During savior dominance with prize money factored in he was making like 2 mil a year in US dollars.
Um?
Lol yeah pretty vague memory not really sure but i swear there is a thread laying around here just about how much money savior was making.
Assuming that what rek said is true.... the most fixed/bs match I can think of in my head is..... + Show Spoiler +
Gomtv Special Bisu vs Jaedong esp Set5 and Gomtv Season 1 Finals between Flash and JD cuz the whole touney<everything else in reputation/fame/stakes/etc
On April 10 2010 13:50 chongu wrote: Assuming that what rek said is true.... the most fixed/bs match I can think of in my head is..... + Show Spoiler +
Gomtv Special Bisu vs Jaedong esp Set5 and Gomtv Season 1 Finals between Flash and JD cuz the whole touney<everything else in reputation/fame/stakes/etc
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
Hmmm... take guaranteed money or try to beat Flash Bo5... WWJD?
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
lol 20k is alot of money, if someone said to me 'hey you want this trophy or 20k?' id take the 20k lol
During savior dominance with prize money factored in he was making like 2 mil a year in US dollars.
Um?
Lol yeah pretty vague memory not really sure but i swear there is a thread laying around here just about how much money savior was making.
On April 10 2010 13:49 JohnColtrane wrote: ETT is he being serious?
No, he's remembering wrong.
Yeah lol i just dug that up too lol funny what you remember eh(the guy said 2 mil in the start of that thread later corrected and that's what i remembered). Anyways i hope rumors are just rumors don't need anymore programmers robbin convince stores.
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
the amounts could have been much bigger
when you're as famous as savior your $ expectation is really not that much bigger than the difference between 2nd and 1st place (unless contract renegotiation time is soon). and anyways, even if you're trying your hardest you're not guaranteed to win so you can lock up free $.
of course it's retarded and risky and dishonorable to take a bribe like that, but when you're a naive video game playing kid and someone is waving tens of thousands of dollars in your face...it's hard for a person to see the big picture.
I think it actually is the better move to take the bribes since typically this type of career is short lived.
It's actually really hard to play badly and make it subtle unless you're Backho and can just get away with suiciding random shit. I've tried to throw games before and other than leaving bases undefended and suiciding armies it's tricky. Poor control and bad macro are hard to fake.
On April 10 2010 13:48 motbob wrote: You know, when a certain scandal in progaming was being discussed, Rekrul made a comment to the effect of: "If you guys knew the real worst scandal in gaming your heads would explode." When I read Waxangel's blog, I immediately thought "OMG THIS IS IT!" But since Rek didn't have any prior proof of it, I guess not...
I remembered this too, when I read the rumors of match fixing in the April Roster Changes thread.
On April 10 2010 13:51 zulu_nation8 wrote: Does progaming have rules regarding matchfixing? If so then are they too afraid of the potential scandal to ban the players who are caught?
If it was a ton of big name players I'm sure that KeSPA/MBC/OGN or whoever would probably actually be hurt more than helped by banning them publicly rather than keeping it a secret, what with all the drama that would surround it and losing potentially a lot of fans of those players from watching SC anymore.
On April 10 2010 14:00 endGame wrote: So wait. Can I change my proleague team? If Luxury is gonna be incarcerated, he's not gonna be getting me too many points.
Let's play a game with each other! ' See how much game currently being played (STX vs OZ, KT vs FOX) are being fixed!
If you guess the game that was fixed correctly, you get 1 points! If you guess the player who is intentionally fixing the game, you get 3 points! If you spot the game where both players are intentionally trying to fix the game, you get bonus 5 special points!
On April 10 2010 14:04 Megalisk wrote: So im wondering if someone like NaDa would be involved in this..would REALLY suck if he was.
If he was we wouldn't know about it. The guy already built up his good-guy image and KeSPA wouldn't want someone like that to be exposed.
Plus if he did that lil celebration thing for that one kid during his match against Tempest because he said he would, I'm pretty sure he'd keep his honor and not take a bribe...
On April 10 2010 13:14 micronesia wrote: On what criminal charges exactly would the gamers be arrested?
most forms of gambling including sportsbetting are illegal in korea
Yes, but what would the progamer get in trouble for? They weren't the ones gambling.
how do you know?
Sorry I missed your edit earlier littlechava. I guess if they were stupid enough to try to bet on a game that they were playing in then they would deserve to get arrested LOL.
But if you are getting bribed to throw a game then you definitely don't bet on it... that's the job of the person who's bribing you! You are getting paid to 'cheat' in a game. If I paid you to maphack in the TSL you wouldn't go to jail unless maybe they linked you as an accomplice to my illegal gambling on the tsl.
If this is true then I'd imagine both Yellow and Chojjaa would have done this in the past. Julyzerg too; his match vs pepe in GOM was especially suspicious. Effort is a possibility also considering he started losing all kinds of matches; he easily could have just got worn out though. In other races Jangbi maybe? I assume Sangho and Upmagic were removed for this reason. Bisu even too; he has lost some fishy tvps over the years. If Bisu is involved then Best would be too most likely.
OK one thing I don't get though. How much are people really betting on these games? I thought most of the audience for starcraft was teenagers who don't really have any money to gamble with? Are there a lot of rich Korean guys betting huge sums on these games, enough to make it profitable to give out 20K bribes?
On April 10 2010 13:53 JohnColtrane wrote: i'd like to know, out of the top players, the ones that never took a bribe / engaged in match fixing
Flash so rarely loses, but then there were those 'no turrets wtf?' games. I doubt his parents, whose consent I assume he would have needed, would have agreed.
On April 10 2010 13:53 JohnColtrane wrote: i'd like to know, out of the top players, the ones that never took a bribe / engaged in match fixing
Flash so rarely loses, but then there were those 'no turrets wtf?' games. I doubt his parents, whose consent I assume he would have needed, would have agreed.
minors need their parents' consent to make illegal deals?
On April 10 2010 14:15 Luddite wrote: OK one thing I don't get though. How much are people really betting on these games? I thought most of the audience for starcraft was teenagers who don't really have any money to gamble with? Are there a lot of rich Korean guys betting huge sums on these games, enough to make it profitable to give out 20K bribes?
On April 10 2010 13:53 JohnColtrane wrote: i'd like to know, out of the top players, the ones that never took a bribe / engaged in match fixing
Flash so rarely loses, but then there were those 'no turrets wtf?' games. I doubt his parents, whose consent I assume he would have needed, would have agreed.
minors need their parents' consent to make illegal deals?
On April 10 2010 13:53 JohnColtrane wrote: i'd like to know, out of the top players, the ones that never took a bribe / engaged in match fixing
Flash so rarely loses, but then there were those 'no turrets wtf?' games. I doubt his parents, whose consent I assume he would have needed, would have agreed.
not saying I think Flash cheats, but really? you need consent to cheat? wow
On April 10 2010 14:13 cutebabyelephant wrote: If this is true then I'd imagine both Yellow and Chojjaa would have done this in the past. Julyzerg too; his match vs pepe in GOM was especially suspicious. Effort is a possibility also considering he started losing all kinds of matches; he easily could have just got worn out though. In other races Jangbi maybe? I assume Sangho and Upmagic were removed for this reason. Bisu even too; he has lost some fishy tvps over the years. If Bisu is involved then Best would be too most likely.
haha, how funny would it be if Yellow threw all those finals on purpose?
On April 10 2010 14:15 Luddite wrote: OK one thing I don't get though. How much are people really betting on these games? I thought most of the audience for starcraft was teenagers who don't really have any money to gamble with? Are there a lot of rich Korean guys betting huge sums on these games, enough to make it profitable to give out 20K bribes?
it doesn't have to work like that
a betting site can offer a line on a match that in a fair non-rigged match it would be common sense to only take one side of the bet
like they could offer a superior player 1:1 odds against a huge underdog
the mass public will all run to bet on the favorite thinking it's a sure win
then the site pays the favorite to lose, keeps all the money -- it's not so unfathomable with millions of viewers that they could get 10,000+ people to all bet 10$, and thats 100,000$
even though the sites are already illegal and shady, and those sites could just steal people's money, it's much better to do it this way because it keeps people betting cause they never realize they are being scammed.
On April 10 2010 14:13 cutebabyelephant wrote: If this is true then I'd imagine both Yellow and Chojjaa would have done this in the past. Julyzerg too; his match vs pepe in GOM was especially suspicious. Effort is a possibility also considering he started losing all kinds of matches; he easily could have just got worn out though. In other races Jangbi maybe? I assume Sangho and Upmagic were removed for this reason. Bisu even too; he has lost some fishy tvps over the years. If Bisu is involved then Best would be too most likely.
haha, how funny would it be if Yellow threw all those finals on purpose?
On April 10 2010 14:15 Luddite wrote: OK one thing I don't get though. How much are people really betting on these games? I thought most of the audience for starcraft was teenagers who don't really have any money to gamble with? Are there a lot of rich Korean guys betting huge sums on these games, enough to make it profitable to give out 20K bribes?
On April 10 2010 13:53 JohnColtrane wrote: i'd like to know, out of the top players, the ones that never took a bribe / engaged in match fixing
Flash so rarely loses, but then there were those 'no turrets wtf?' games. I doubt his parents, whose consent I assume he would have needed, would have agreed.
On April 10 2010 12:56 Rekrul wrote: Savior, anytime, luxury, and many other progamers have been caught 100% proven cheating. Being arrested and taken to court no joke.
Not that im doubting you or anything if u say that they've already been caught 100 percent of cheating then you can show us the evidence now ...
On April 10 2010 14:13 cutebabyelephant wrote: If this is true then I'd imagine both Yellow and Chojjaa would have done this in the past. Julyzerg too; his match vs pepe in GOM was especially suspicious. Effort is a possibility also considering he started losing all kinds of matches; he easily could have just got worn out though. In other races Jangbi maybe? I assume Sangho and Upmagic were removed for this reason. Bisu even too; he has lost some fishy tvps over the years. If Bisu is involved then Best would be too most likely.
yeah man and hey remember when that progamer lost a game awhile back HE MUST HAVE THROWN IT TOO
On April 10 2010 13:53 JohnColtrane wrote: i'd like to know, out of the top players, the ones that never took a bribe / engaged in match fixing
Flash so rarely loses, but then there were those 'no turrets wtf?' games. I doubt his parents, whose consent I assume he would have needed, would have agreed.
minors need their parents' consent to make illegal deals?
I mean how could he do it without them noticing, really.
On April 10 2010 13:53 JohnColtrane wrote: i'd like to know, out of the top players, the ones that never took a bribe / engaged in match fixing
Flash so rarely loses, but then there were those 'no turrets wtf?' games. I doubt his parents, whose consent I assume he would have needed, would have agreed.
minors need their parents' consent to make illegal deals?
I mean how could he do it without them noticing, really.
How many illegal things did you do as a minor without your parents noticing?
On April 10 2010 13:53 JohnColtrane wrote: i'd like to know, out of the top players, the ones that never took a bribe / engaged in match fixing
Flash so rarely loses, but then there were those 'no turrets wtf?' games. I doubt his parents, whose consent I assume he would have needed, would have agreed.
minors need their parents' consent to make illegal deals?
I mean how could he do it without them noticing, really.
On April 10 2010 13:53 JohnColtrane wrote: i'd like to know, out of the top players, the ones that never took a bribe / engaged in match fixing
Flash so rarely loses, but then there were those 'no turrets wtf?' games. I doubt his parents, whose consent I assume he would have needed, would have agreed.
minors need their parents' consent to make illegal deals?
I mean how could he do it without them noticing, really.
I can't tell if you're joking, you don't keep any secrets from your parents?
On April 10 2010 13:53 JohnColtrane wrote: i'd like to know, out of the top players, the ones that never took a bribe / engaged in match fixing
Flash so rarely loses, but then there were those 'no turrets wtf?' games. I doubt his parents, whose consent I assume he would have needed, would have agreed.
minors need their parents' consent to make illegal deals?
I mean how could he do it without them noticing, really.
How many illegal things did you do as a minor without your parents noticing?
None, especially none involving tens of thousands of dollars appearing in my bank account, or getting thousands of dollars worth of stuff without actually spending any money. I just think his parents would be keeping close 'tabs' on his bank account is all...
On April 10 2010 14:30 Caphe wrote: Fuck, Is this thing even true? I cant believe it... Blew my mind away
Until some evidence is provided there's no reason to jump to conclusions... not only could it be completely wrong/fabricated... but the severity of it could simply be misrepresented and it could be much smaller than it seems... either way it will be interesting to see though.
On April 10 2010 13:53 JohnColtrane wrote: i'd like to know, out of the top players, the ones that never took a bribe / engaged in match fixing
Flash so rarely loses, but then there were those 'no turrets wtf?' games. I doubt his parents, whose consent I assume he would have needed, would have agreed.
minors need their parents' consent to make illegal deals?
I mean how could he do it without them noticing, really.
How many illegal things did you do as a minor without your parents noticing?
None, especially none involving tens of thousands of dollars appearing in my bank account, or getting thousands of dollars worth of stuff without actually spending any money. I just think his parents would be keeping close 'tabs' on his bank account is all...
Considering he doesn't live with his parents and he could always just have a separate bank account that they don't know about, I don't think it'd be that hard to keep it from them. Nobody would really be spending tens of thousands of dollars on random stuff if they're getting it illegally anyway. They'd be just saving/investing it and keeping it under the table until later in life or something.
On April 10 2010 14:31 Angra wrote: Considering he doesn't live with his parents and he could always just have a separate bank account that they don't know about, I don't think it'd be that hard to keep it from them. Nobody would really be spending tens of thousands of dollars on random stuff if they're getting it illegally anyway. They'd be just saving/investing it and keeping it under the table until later in life or something.
I don't doubt that it's possible, but just unlikely imo.
dude i hella knew it! some nubs like bisu cant take down top dawgs like savior. i bet the mafia threatened them to slump. and bisus prolly with the mafia. there shouldnt be any good looking nerds
On April 10 2010 14:34 sqwert wrote: dude i hella knew it! some nubs like bisu cant take down top dawgs like savior. i bet the mafia threatened them to slump
On April 10 2010 13:53 JohnColtrane wrote: i'd like to know, out of the top players, the ones that never took a bribe / engaged in match fixing
Flash so rarely loses, but then there were those 'no turrets wtf?' games. I doubt his parents, whose consent I assume he would have needed, would have agreed.
minors need their parents' consent to make illegal deals?
I mean how could he do it without them noticing, really.
How many illegal things did you do as a minor without your parents noticing?
None, especially none involving tens of thousands of dollars appearing in my bank account, or getting thousands of dollars worth of stuff without actually spending any money. I just think his parents would be keeping close 'tabs' on his bank account is all...
Considering he doesn't live with his parents and he could always just have a separate bank account that they don't know about, I don't think it'd be that hard to keep it from them. Nobody would really be spending tens of thousands of dollars on random stuff if they're getting it illegally anyway. They'd be just saving/investing it and keeping it under the table until later in life or something.
very wrong, people who only see short term gain and don't realize long term risks are the people who engage in this kind of behavior, and also the kind of people capable of doing something compulsive like spending it or stupidly putting it into their bank account which ultimately are the kinds of things that get people caught
it's funny with these kinds of things, once you do it once you are endebted to the people bribing you, because they can blackmail you into continuing to do it forever after that
anyways, i'm glad this is all happening now, before sc2 comes out. it's a definite wound to progaming but it will heal and make it stronger.
On April 10 2010 13:53 JohnColtrane wrote: i'd like to know, out of the top players, the ones that never took a bribe / engaged in match fixing
Flash so rarely loses, but then there were those 'no turrets wtf?' games. I doubt his parents, whose consent I assume he would have needed, would have agreed.
minors need their parents' consent to make illegal deals?
I mean how could he do it without them noticing, really.
How many illegal things did you do as a minor without your parents noticing?
None, especially none involving tens of thousands of dollars appearing in my bank account, or getting thousands of dollars worth of stuff without actually spending any money. I just think his parents would be keeping close 'tabs' on his bank account is all...
Ok personally I did highly illegal things as a youth, but I like that argument. His parents probably are managing his finance, so hypothetically if Flash was cheating his parents might have gone along with it. Still it isn't impossible for a kid to conceal large amounts of money if he has a decent head on his shoulders.
On April 10 2010 14:31 lolaloc wrote: I guess fantasy is a suspect too?
No way! fantasy doesn't throw games. He just loses.
Now instead of people admitting that their favorite players are capable of *gasp* actually losing games, they'll say that those players merely threw them.
On April 10 2010 13:53 JohnColtrane wrote: i'd like to know, out of the top players, the ones that never took a bribe / engaged in match fixing
Flash so rarely loses, but then there were those 'no turrets wtf?' games. I doubt his parents, whose consent I assume he would have needed, would have agreed.
minors need their parents' consent to make illegal deals?
I mean how could he do it without them noticing, really.
How many illegal things did you do as a minor without your parents noticing?
None, especially none involving tens of thousands of dollars appearing in my bank account, or getting thousands of dollars worth of stuff without actually spending any money. I just think his parents would be keeping close 'tabs' on his bank account is all...
Ok personally I did highly illegal things as a youth, but I like that argument. His parents probably are managing his finance, so hypothetically if Flash was cheating his parents might have gone along with it. Still it isn't impossible for a kid to conceal large amounts of money if he has a decent head on his shoulders.
Ummm....it's really easy to conceal money. Hide it somewhere, or open a 2nd bank account with a different bank that your parents don't know about (that would still be retarded but I could see one of them doing it lolol)
On April 10 2010 13:53 JohnColtrane wrote: i'd like to know, out of the top players, the ones that never took a bribe / engaged in match fixing
Flash so rarely loses, but then there were those 'no turrets wtf?' games. I doubt his parents, whose consent I assume he would have needed, would have agreed.
minors need their parents' consent to make illegal deals?
I mean how could he do it without them noticing, really.
How many illegal things did you do as a minor without your parents noticing?
None, especially none involving tens of thousands of dollars appearing in my bank account, or getting thousands of dollars worth of stuff without actually spending any money. I just think his parents would be keeping close 'tabs' on his bank account is all...
Ok personally I did highly illegal things as a youth, but I like that argument. His parents probably are managing his finance, so hypothetically if Flash was cheating his parents might have gone along with it. Still it isn't impossible for a kid to conceal large amounts of money if he has a decent head on his shoulders.
Ummm....it's really easy to conceal money. Hide it somewhere, or open a 2nd bank account with a different bank that your parents don't know about (that would still be retarded but I could see one of them doing it lolol)
damn, what if shinhan bank was a part of concealing this, that would be insane
i bet the mafia bribed flash to lose last msl finals to jaedong, but seeing as flash looked like he was gona win game 2, their insiders at mbc pulled the plug and u know the rest
On April 10 2010 14:42 sqwert wrote: i bet the mafia bribed flash to lose last msl finals to jaedong, but seeing as flash looked like he was gona win game 2, their insiders at mbc pulled the plug and u know the rest
On April 10 2010 14:41 Lz wrote: anyone losing to backho i think was staged...
i actually think backho is the greatest genius of all, making people think he was terrible so he wouldn't be suspected when in reality he was taking money to throw games!
On April 10 2010 14:41 Lz wrote: anyone losing to backho i think was staged...
i actually think backho is the greatest genius of all, making people think he was terrible so he wouldn't be suspected when in reality he was taking money to throw games!
Explains that constant injuries too, maybe he was skimming off the top
Need more proof untill I can believe this. But it can very well be true. Let see it like this, all the pros in SC are very young of age(some of them may be ''old'' for SC but irl they are still very young) And at that young age they really can fall into things like this if there is no one there to guide them. Just like in many other sports, say football for instance, there are alot of youngster - wonderkid so to speak threw their future away just for a small amount of instance money compare to what they would earned if they dont matchfixing.
On April 10 2010 14:41 Lz wrote: anyone losing to backho i think was staged...
i actually think backho is the greatest genius of all, making people think he was terrible so he wouldn't be suspected when in reality he was taking money to throw games!
More like backho is best sc player ever and dumps most of his games then takes money to win.
Oh I'm sure there's proof coming, Rek wouldn't be building it up this much to post saying "jk guys y so serious lol." This really doesn't surprise me, but it's quite depressing. Watching matches now I'm always going to wonder. I thought this might be pretty widespread when I heard about some fishy isolated cases, but it wasn't hard to dismiss until now...
My god don't you doubters ever learn? He is performing a great service by doing the same thing to the Korean pro-scene as he had done in TL, purging the fuck out of cancerous bastards! How dare you criticize him in one of his greatest moments?
what did you guys expect, even if it is true there's no way he can post evidence because he clearly stated he got his evidence through hearsay and it's not like he has access to documents related to the supposed investigation. even if he could show some documented proof it would require a certain level of effort that's just not worth it for him since his curiousity for the truth has already been validated and enough people believe him anyways.
On April 10 2010 15:07 Jugan wrote: This could explain why Luxury and some other players got taken off the proleague rosters. I can't believe savior did that!
I was kind of upset that Rekrul wasn't going to post the list but then I realized that, list or no list, I will still wake up tomorrow and be a virgin.
100 bucks say it was midas who revealed all this because he knew if this gets into public someone will change the SPL format thus giving him more appearances in PL. + Show Spoiler +
On April 10 2010 15:11 Ash wrote: 100 bucks say it was midas who revealed all this because he knew if this gets into public someone will change the SPL format thus giving him more appearances in PL. + Show Spoiler +
On April 10 2010 15:11 Ash wrote: 100 bucks say it was midas who revealed all this because he knew if this gets into public someone will change the SPL format thus giving him more appearances in PL. Yea, he succeeded+ Show Spoiler +
On April 10 2010 15:11 Ash wrote: 100 bucks say it was midas who revealed all this because he knew if this gets into public someone will change the SPL format thus giving him more appearances in PL. Yea, he succeeded+ Show Spoiler +
and nice way to duck out of providing evidence to back yourself up
What evidence did you expect? A scan of an official court document? Some e-sports figure going on camera to confirm? All Rekrul could be reasonably expected to post would be a list of names. He probably wouldn't even be able to post who his sources are. Even if he did post a list you'd say it's fake. Just take his word for it or don't. Asking for any "evidence" obviously isn't going to get you something that is actually valuable.
That being said, it's pretty obvious that this stuff is going on regardless of whether we can confirm it. The Proleague rule changes mean something is up. As soon as you have appreciable amount of money exchanging hands through betting, there's going to be match fixing. People love to gamble. People love to take risks. People love money.
And other people are well aware of all that and love to take advantage of it. Koreans are no different.
On April 10 2010 15:16 UmmTheHobo wrote: Rekrul if you started a class teaching people how to succesfully troll, I would honestly pay money to be enrolled.
and nice way to duck out of providing evidence to back yourself up
What evidence did you expect? A scan of an official court document? Some e-sports figure going on camera to confirm? All Rekrul could be reasonably expected to post would be a list of names. He probably wouldn't even be able to post who his sources are. Even if he did post a list you'd say it's fake. Just take his word for it or don't. Asking for any "evidence" obviously isn't going to get you something that is actually valuable.
That being said, it's pretty obvious that this stuff is going on regardless of whether we can confirm it. The Proleague rule changes mean something is up. As soon as you have appreciable amount of money exchanging hands through betting, there's going to be match fixing. People love to gamble. People love to take risks. People love money.
And other people are well aware of all that and love to take advantage of it. Koreans are no different.
my point is there's no new information other than him going I know Waxangel already went over all this, and if anyone didn't think this was happening on some scale they're retarded.
at least this thread got more people talking about it
On April 10 2010 15:16 UmmTheHobo wrote: Rekrul if you started a class teaching people how to succesfully troll, I would honestly pay money to be enrolled.
SIGN ME UP!!!
Look, it's easy. Let me break it down for you:
1.) Build up a good reputation of releasing insider information about a certain subject. 2.) Promising the biggest scoop you'll have ever dropped. People will believe you because of your track record. 3.) Squander your reputation wholly by not following through.
On April 10 2010 15:16 UmmTheHobo wrote: Rekrul if you started a class teaching people how to succesfully troll, I would honestly pay money to be enrolled.
SIGN ME UP!!!
Look, it's easy. Let me break it down for you:
1.) Build up a good reputation of releasing insider information about a certain subject. 2.) Squander that reputation wholly, promising the biggest scoops you'll have ever dropped and then not following through.
EZ
You only ever cared about the turtles didn't you, you never cared about us you bastard!
What do you think of how top tier progamers are actually paid? I remember a news post that stated the e-sports heritage league had the same 1st prize money as the OSL. Ever since then Ive wondered if top tier gamers have really been getting their slice of the pie. Its probably very frustrating to practice 12 hours a day only to make some Kespa executive a pile of money. If you can make twice as much money throwing games rather than succeeding that is creates a huge incentive to just say 'fuck it.' It almost makes me feel bad for them. Then I remember all the "I will practice hard and return to the top for all the of my fans" bullshit. If the threw games there needs to be retribution.
rekrul is actually correct there is considerable controersy going on korean forums about this and facts seem to really point to this conclusion (the latest evidences: the latest roster changes, dropping of upmagic,luxury, yarnc and savior moving to his home and demoted to second string despite the fact that he is playing well during in house matches)
but it is not as bad as it may seem only a handful (no more than few dozen i suspect) of games would have been affected and really good players like flash and jaedong and bisu are not likely to have participated at all also this goes back to at most 2007; before there was no betting on sc yet
i am not too heartbroken becuase i never liked any of the suspected perpatrators as gamers for example i never liked savior; he seemed arrogant and had an uncanny air of corruption about him
On April 10 2010 15:16 UmmTheHobo wrote: Rekrul if you started a class teaching people how to succesfully troll, I would honestly pay money to be enrolled.
SIGN ME UP!!!
Look, it's easy. Let me break it down for you:
1.) Build up a good reputation of releasing insider information about a certain subject. 2.) Promising the biggest scoop you'll have ever dropped. People will believe you because of your track record. 3.) Squander your reputation wholly by not following through.
On April 10 2010 15:16 UmmTheHobo wrote: Rekrul if you started a class teaching people how to succesfully troll, I would honestly pay money to be enrolled.
That's like asking Shaquille O'Neal for lessons on how to be tall.
By the way if Rekrul is lying he deserves to be banned. However I cannot think of a decent reason for him to actually lie. He has nothing to gain and could lose his entire reputation here. (OK he may not give a shit about his reputation but its defiantly more than nothing.)
Basically either Rekrul is telling the truth or he is a far bigger asshole than anyone give him credit.
this is like saying all the hockey and nfl players take steroids but the US government and officials have kept it quiet... doesn't make sense the truth comes out sometime mate
On April 10 2010 15:41 NeoOmega wrote: By the way if Rekrul is lying he deserves to be banned. However I cannot think of a decent reason for him to actually lie. He has nothing to gain and could lose his entire reputation here. (OK he may not give a shit about his reputation but its defiantly more than nothing.)
Basically either Rekrul is telling the truth or he is a far bigger asshole than anyone give him credit.
On April 10 2010 15:41 NeoOmega wrote: By the way if Rekrul is lying he deserves to be banned. However I cannot think of a decent reason for him to actually lie. He has nothing to gain and could lose his entire reputation here. (OK he may not give a shit about his reputation but its defiantly more than nothing.)
Basically either Rekrul is telling the truth or he is a far bigger asshole than anyone give him credit.
Shut up, seriously. If you're literally getting this mad over this, you're retarded.
On April 10 2010 15:44 unionbank wrote: this is like saying all the hockey and nfl players take steroids but the US government and officials have kept it quiet... doesn't make sense the truth comes out sometime mate
The difference is that even if people are caught using steroids in baseball etc. those sports will still be alive. If this gets out the entire industry suffers a tremendous amount due its size. Just look at the War3 progaming scene after the whole map-fixing scandal.
The fomos forum seems to have talked about it for quite a bit, although I couldn't find the original thread. From what I can tell, a person just came in and just posted things accusing certain players (UpMagic, Sangho, Luxury was a few that was named, apparently) of match fixing.
You know how I always went around saying progamers started losing because the fame and money got them distracted by girls / alcohol etc?
I was wrong.
I would actually argue that you aren't wrong. It's hard to say that Savior's "slump" was justified simply by throwing away matches. Think of it on the side of the Betting House -- Savior slumping doesn't do the betting house much good, as people will now expect Savior to lose more and more. It's also unlikely that people will continue betting on Savior, in which case, the Betting house would actually want Savior to win at certain points.
At best, the players threw away a few games, not enough to be "in a slump" (ie, anything that can be remotely predictable isn't too good for the betting house, unless they can "pay" players to overcome those expectations).
So yeah, i wouldn't say the original explanation changes at all -- you're likely "not wrong" about this, although selling a game or two could have easily lead to the other.
On April 10 2010 13:44 Exteray wrote: I also remain interested skeptical. If you are savior, and you are picking between: 1)10K to 20K instant cash 2) Potential MSL/OSL title...
Which one would you pick? I think these programers already make a lot.. to them honor is more than $$.
lol 20k is alot of money, if someone said to me 'hey you want this trophy or 20k?' id take the 20k lol
During savior dominance with prize money factored in he was making like 2 mil a year in US dollars.
Will translate important bits in a second. They're postings from sports betting communities.
First Image:
Sounds like an official that is posting about the Bogus - Savior match, which they seem to be very very certain that it was rigged.
The last underlined bit talks about Bisu in that they think Bisu's matches that day also seemed a bit more rigged, but The Bogus - Savior game was something they actually got a report on.
Second Image:
Someone just talking about the logistics of it.
Things in parenthesis are context
There still seems to be people who don't believe in match fixing in Starcraft. There is match fixing in Starcraft.
The biggest reason why people don't believe in match fixing in Starcraft is because they don't fix matches every day.
"Photon"(Name of a user) posted a thread about Starcraft match fixing. He is correct.
The players and the brokers do not directly bet on the game, nor do the "playgrounds"(what seems to be betting communities)
There are three things that are needed to fix a match in Starcraft
1) A player who will join the scheme 2) The broker that manages that player 3) A huge better that "spins"(not 100% sure what they mean here) at least 10 playgrounds
If these three conditions are met, then match fixing becomes possible.
The brokers go around playgrounds, and look for a huge betters, and see how many playgrounds they can "spin".
These brokers also pay attention to the odds given for Starcraft matches. After this, they approach this "huge better", to see if they're interested in a contract.
There are little to no "huge betters" in our cafe that have never been involved in one of these contracts
There are now more obstacles that make match fixing a little harder, but a long time ago, it was very easy and the playgrounds were swept by them.
Third Image:
Someone posting that "Police are finally taking action" against Starcraft Betting
Fourth Image:
The Cafe Staff warning about Betting in games by UpMaGic, YellOw[ArnC], Luxury, because "everyone knows" there are forces behind planning their games.
On April 10 2010 16:01 Chairman Ray wrote: Why would someone need to pay Luxury to lose? I don't see there being large sums of money betted on Luxury unlike Savior and Anytime.
Have you seen Lux at his prime? His bo5 vs flash in the ever 08 osl pretty much sums it up, go watch nao
On April 10 2010 13:53 JohnColtrane wrote: i'd like to know, out of the top players, the ones that never took a bribe / engaged in match fixing
Flash so rarely loses, but then there were those 'no turrets wtf?' games. I doubt his parents, whose consent I assume he would have needed, would have agreed.
minors need their parents' consent to make illegal deals?
I mean how could he do it without them noticing, really.
How many illegal things did you do as a minor without your parents noticing?
None, especially none involving tens of thousands of dollars appearing in my bank account, or getting thousands of dollars worth of stuff without actually spending any money. I just think his parents would be keeping close 'tabs' on his bank account is all...
Considering he doesn't live with his parents and he could always just have a separate bank account that they don't know about, I don't think it'd be that hard to keep it from them. Nobody would really be spending tens of thousands of dollars on random stuff if they're getting it illegally anyway. They'd be just saving/investing it and keeping it under the table until later in life or something.
very wrong, people who only see short term gain and don't realize long term risks are the people who engage in this kind of behavior, and also the kind of people capable of doing something compulsive like spending it or stupidly putting it into their bank account which ultimately are the kinds of things that get people caught
it's funny with these kinds of things, once you do it once you are endebted to the people bribing you, because they can blackmail you into continuing to do it forever after that
anyways, i'm glad this is all happening now, before sc2 comes out. it's a definite wound to progaming but it will heal and make it stronger.
I was feeling this too for some reason. I feel like this is a good thing. Especially with the timing of SC2 being released in the not-too-far future.
P.S. Sorry for posting again, I really felt like bringing this point up.
Will translate important bits in a second. They're nowhere near official, other than the first one, since they're all seem to be a cafe blog post from a betting community.
First Image:
Sounds like an official that is posting about the Bogus - Savior match, which they seem to be very very certain that it was rigged.
The last underlined bit talks about Bisu in that they think Bisu's matches that day also seemed a bit more rigged, but The Bogus - Savior game was something they actually got a report on.
Second Image:
Someone just talking about the logistics of it.
Third Image:
Someone posting that "Police are finally taking action" against Starcraft Betting
Fourth Image:
The Cafe Staff warning about Betting in games by UpMaGic, YellOw[ArnC], Luxury, because "everyone knows" there are forces behind planning their games.
On April 10 2010 16:32 SuperArc wrote: This would also explain savior's OSL preliminaries fail and the sudden 0-3 loss to Bisu.
I always found it strange that savior still kept a 70-80% win rate vs P even though Bisu reinvented PvZ.
Seriously.
I always found [match where a good player lost to a worse player] suspicious. This totally explains that loss. Therefore, the original explanation is true.
Will translate important bits in a second. They're postings from sports betting communities.
First Image:
Sounds like an official that is posting about the Bogus - Savior match, which they seem to be very very certain that it was rigged.
The last underlined bit talks about Bisu in that they think Bisu's matches that day also seemed a bit more rigged, but The Bogus - Savior game was something they actually got a report on.
There still seems to be people who don't believe in match fixing in Starcraft. There is match fixing in Starcraft.
The biggest reason why people don't believe in match fixing in Starcraft is because they don't fix matches every day.
"Photon"(Name of a user) posted a thread about Starcraft match fixing. He is correct.
The players and the brokers do not directly bet on the game, nor do the "playgrounds"(what seems to be betting communities)
There are three things that are needed to fix a match in Starcraft
1) A player who will join the scheme 2) The broker that manages that player 3) A huge better that "spins"(not 100% sure what they mean here) at least 10 playgrounds
If these three conditions are met, then match fixing becomes possible.
The brokers go around playgrounds, and look for a huge betters, and see how many playgrounds they can "spin".
These brokers also pay attention to the odds given for Starcraft matches. After this, they approach this "huge better", to see if they're interested in a contract.
There are little to no "huge betters" in our cafe that have never been involved in one of these contracts
There are now more obstacles that make match fixing a little harder, but a long time ago, it was very easy and the playgrounds were swept by them.
Third Image:
Someone posting that "Police are finally taking action" against Starcraft Betting
Fourth Image:
The Cafe Staff warning about Betting in games by UpMaGic, YellOw[ArnC], Luxury, because "everyone knows" there are forces behind planning their games.
This is pretty interesting. I don't think I entirely understand the scheme they're running, but even just that people are talking about this on fomos is telling...
Haven't read anything but the first page, but god this better be true; that Luxury game versus Guemchi was ridiculous and even made me think my D level zerg could have finished that game off.
On April 10 2010 19:08 machinehead.. wrote: Haven't read anything but the first page, but god this better be true; that Luxury game versus Guemchi was ridiculous and even made me think my D level zerg could have finished that game off.
then dont post. If you had read the thread, you'd know rekrul isnt gonna share any info
I can't tell what's more extreme. The brilliance and hilarity of this thread or the lack of people that don't read the whole thread before posting. (Been guilty of that with the Bel-Air thread. Learned that lesson quick. I believe ETT quoted me and said I wasn't aware of how full of fail I was.)
This whole drama bomb thing kind of rekindled my BW fire though. It's just seemed real stale lately. Lately being last year+.
On April 10 2010 19:58 404.Delirium wrote: I can't tell what's more extreme. The brilliance and hilarity of this thread or the lack of people that don't read the whole thread before posting. (Been guilty of that with the Bel-Air thread. Learned that lesson quick. I believe ETT quoted me and said I wasn't aware of how full of fail I was.)
This whole drama bomb thing kind of rekindled my BW fire though. It's just seemed real stale lately. Lately being last year+.
Telling us what car you gonna buy next isn't satisfying enough for you any more Rekrul? Oh I'm sorry. I guess I don't know "the real world" enough to talk to you.
Moreso than any progamer's, the Rekrul fanboys are running rampant in this thread. I'm sure there's been matchmaking, it happens in every other sport so why not e-sports, but Rekrul making wild statements with 0 proof and then acting surprised that people don't believe him and stops posting? I mean come on. Come on.
On April 10 2010 13:14 micronesia wrote: On what criminal charges exactly would the gamers be arrested?
most forms of gambling including sportsbetting are illegal in korea
Yes, but what would the progamer get in trouble for? They weren't the ones gambling.
They were the ones that caused a lot of people to make a lot of money illegally
The gambling was illegal to begin with right? What crime did the progamer commit? I'm not saying they can't get into trouble legally but I just can't figure out the exact charges they would be brought under (I'm also not at all familiar with Korean law)
Appropriate title after all Rekrul (I was wrong) heh.. Atleast you got one thing right there.
What is interesting is that the possibility of shady betting (japan, korea are notorious for this) but the lack of strong evidence or conclusion. This is genius way of presentation and engagement.
Is this an easy way to say to hide players' incompetency? Could players have gone to court without anyone knowing? Was it that well hidden? Are Rekruls sources wrong? There is only one way to find out.
Artosis. You are our man. If you can't do it then no one can.
Interesting read. I would find it hard to believe that Koreans were really betting enough illegally to make it worthwhile for the sites to pay off players with $20k. That aside, this story seems somewhat belivable, despite all the confusion about Rekrul's sincerity. Of course, it's funny how this leads people to try to explain Savior's slump with throwing matches. As much as I have loved watching Savior play, I don't feel any need to explain his losses this way. As has been mentioned, he has been losing way too much for it to be profitable for him to keep on doing it, and he would have only thrown a few games. Granted, if this is true, it does show a great disregard for the competition, which would explain people not caring as much as you would think.
On April 10 2010 13:14 micronesia wrote: On what criminal charges exactly would the gamers be arrested?
most forms of gambling including sportsbetting are illegal in korea
Yes, but what would the progamer get in trouble for? They weren't the ones gambling.
They were the ones that caused a lot of people to make a lot of money illegally
That argument doesn't really make any sense. He would have been the cause of that no matter whether he won/lost on purpose. I think micronesia's doubts about this seem fairly intelligent, actually. The court cannot really control the actions of people in this way. They can do whatever the fuck they want when the compete, and, as I see it, the only way they could be incrimated by something like this was if they signed a contract which took this into account.
On April 10 2010 15:49 PanoRaMa wrote: Just look at the War3 progaming scene after the whole map-fixing scandal.
What ? I mean, can you explain a bit ?
Well, in a big Korean Warcraft 3 league, MBC's Prime League, one of the main programmers was editing maps (where you can define all the details of units, buildings, research, etc.) to favour certain races or people, trying to even out the game's imbalance and keep the crowds entertained. DayFly, one of the best WC3 players to date, found out and exposed it. It turns out it had been going on for a long time and that DayFly had actually been one of the main beneficiaries of this (even though he had retired before exposing it). I remember that it was big, but I never recall thinking of it as detrimental to the scene.
On April 10 2010 13:30 grobo wrote: What the fuck?! this has completely shattered my view on progaming in Korea, i always knew there were some fishy stuff going on like the Hwasin deal at WCG and similar stuff, but nothing this big.
May you enlighten me on this "Hwasing thing at WCG"?
Interesting read, actually. I remember there was some talk about this, but never saw it blown up like it apparently was on Gotfrag. Obviously, people knew the Koreans might not be terribly serious in a foreign tournament, but Calm and Hwasin in fact planned out the games instead of just playing them straight up, it kind of seems to break the spirit of the tournament. Not that the result was of deciding importance, but just that the tournament ends up with a final where the players are actually acting rather than playing, turning it into kind of a farce.
Funnily, I remember that this was the tournament where I first saw Calm play. I have hugely impressed by him (while completely unimpressed by Hwasin) and I remember commenting here that I thought it was a great player and would do it. Not long after he started being one of the better players in Korea, even though lately he's gone down a notch again. And even if they fixed the games, they were still quite entertaining to watch, so it wasn't all bad.
Will translate important bits in a second. They're postings from sports betting communities.
First Image:
Sounds like an official that is posting about the Bogus - Savior match, which they seem to be very very certain that it was rigged.
The last underlined bit talks about Bisu in that they think Bisu's matches that day also seemed a bit more rigged, but The Bogus - Savior game was something they actually got a report on.
There still seems to be people who don't believe in match fixing in Starcraft. There is match fixing in Starcraft.
The biggest reason why people don't believe in match fixing in Starcraft is because they don't fix matches every day.
"Photon"(Name of a user) posted a thread about Starcraft match fixing. He is correct.
The players and the brokers do not directly bet on the game, nor do the "playgrounds"(what seems to be betting communities)
There are three things that are needed to fix a match in Starcraft
1) A player who will join the scheme 2) The broker that manages that player 3) A huge better that "spins"(not 100% sure what they mean here) at least 10 playgrounds
If these three conditions are met, then match fixing becomes possible.
The brokers go around playgrounds, and look for a huge betters, and see how many playgrounds they can "spin".
These brokers also pay attention to the odds given for Starcraft matches. After this, they approach this "huge better", to see if they're interested in a contract.
There are little to no "huge betters" in our cafe that have never been involved in one of these contracts
There are now more obstacles that make match fixing a little harder, but a long time ago, it was very easy and the playgrounds were swept by them.
Third Image:
Someone posting that "Police are finally taking action" against Starcraft Betting
Fourth Image:
The Cafe Staff warning about Betting in games by UpMaGic, YellOw[ArnC], Luxury, because "everyone knows" there are forces behind planning their games.
On April 10 2010 15:49 PanoRaMa wrote: Just look at the War3 progaming scene after the whole map-fixing scandal.
What ? I mean, can you explain a bit ?
Well, in a big Korean Warcraft 3 league, Prime League, one of the main programmers was editing maps (where you can define all the details of units, buildings, research, etc.) to favour certain races or people, trying to even out the game's imbalance and keep the crowds entertained. DayFly, one of the best WC3 players to date, found out and exposed it. It turns out it had been going on for a long time and that DayFly had actually been one of the main beneficiaries of this (even though he had retired before exposing it). I remember that it was big, but I never recall thinking of it as detrimental to the scene.
On April 10 2010 15:41 NeoOmega wrote: By the way if Rekrul is lying he deserves to be banned. However I cannot think of a decent reason for him to actually lie. He has nothing to gain and could lose his entire reputation here. (OK he may not give a shit about his reputation but its defiantly more than nothing.)
Basically either Rekrul is telling the truth or he is a far bigger asshole than anyone give him credit.
Or he's an ass and he's being truthful?
Honestly, KwarK brought it up in the very beginning. Even if Rekrul were full of shit (which I doubt,) there's betting in SC and where ever you find betting, you'll find attempts at match fixing. In Korea and in SC, the conditions happen to be prime for it.
I hadn't really considered it before but now that I am, even without complete evidence, I'd be shocked if match fixing weren't going on.
On April 10 2010 23:18 Plexa wrote: This thread is the perfect example of terrible posting by a shit ton of you. I'm glad you didn't post that list rek, these people don't deserve it.
I've never really heard you sound this egotistical elitist. "These people"?
On April 10 2010 23:18 Plexa wrote: This thread is the perfect example of terrible posting by a shit ton of you. I'm glad you didn't post that list rek, these people don't deserve it.
Rofl you can not blame people for being retards when someone they have no idea who he is makes a claim that sounds absolutely unbeliveable to their ears. Did you expect people to just say "Oh. I no longer love Savior the same way I did. Time to move on then!"?
Savior being involved rapes my mind, now just tell me Boxer was the main guy behind this and I am going to never touch the korean pro scene again.
On April 10 2010 23:18 Plexa wrote: This thread is the perfect example of terrible posting by a shit ton of you. I'm glad you didn't post that list rek, these people don't deserve it.
Rofl you can not blame people for being retards when someone they have no idea who he is makes a claim that sounds absolutely unbeliveable to their ears. Did you expect people to just say "Oh. I no longer love Savior the same way I did. Time to move on then!"?
Savior being involved rapes my mind, now just tell me Boxer was the main guy behind this and I am going to never touch the korean pro scene again.
they were just desperately saying what they thought would provoke me into giving them everything, but forgot who they were dealing with
and, savior is the biggest culprit, he is going to burn at the stake in this witchhunt
i still don't know a lot, but when i do (within a day or 2) expect a rekrul video blog! you guys (the fans) deserve to know no matter how retarded you all seem to be when u try to reason out 'why rekrul may or may not be lying'
On April 10 2010 23:18 Plexa wrote: This thread is the perfect example of terrible posting by a shit ton of you. I'm glad you didn't post that list rek, these people don't deserve it.
I've never really heard you sound this egotistical elitist. "These people"?
Go back and read through the thread. Too many morons for my liking.
Sounds really intense now...but how long can the higher-ups keep this quiet? So many famous players are at stake...are they just going to try fob this off with an apology and pretend to let it go away?
On April 10 2010 23:32 Fish_Baguettes wrote: Sounds really intense now...but how long can the higher-ups keep this quiet? So many famous players are at stake...are they just going to try fob this off with an apology and pretend to let it go away?
On April 10 2010 23:18 Plexa wrote: This thread is the perfect example of terrible posting by a shit ton of you. I'm glad you didn't post that list rek, these people don't deserve it.
On April 10 2010 23:36 Rekrul wrote: man some of my korean friends have known about this for months
WHY DIDNT THEY FUCKING TELL ME BACK THEN SO I COULD HAVE BLACK MAILED THE FUCK OUT OF SAVIOR FOR ATLEAST HALF HIS PROFITS
then i could have bought all the boji cars and not have to worry about which one is best!
You said before this would be a wound that SC programing scene could heal and grow from - but what do u think are the risks of it totally destroying most of the fanbase with the revealing of the players? I mean atm we still eagerly await news, but will it strike to the heart of SC legends such as Boxer, Yellow, NaDa?
Can we even begin to imagine the scope that the match-fixing has infiltrated into SC?
On April 10 2010 23:36 Rekrul wrote: man some of my korean friends have known about this for months
WHY DIDNT THEY FUCKING TELL ME BACK THEN SO I COULD HAVE BLACK MAILED THE FUCK OUT OF SAVIOR FOR ATLEAST HALF HIS PROFITS
then i could have bought all the boji cars and not have to worry about which one is best!
You said before this would be a wound that SC programing scene could heal and grow from - but what do u think are the risks of it totally destroying most of the fanbase with the revealing of the players? I mean atm we still eagerly await news, but will it strike to the heart of SC legends such as Boxer, Yellow, NaDa?
Can we even begin to imagine the scope that the match-fixing has infiltrated into SC?
it's better to know the players involved rather than being suspicious of everyone
On April 10 2010 23:36 Rekrul wrote: man some of my korean friends have known about this for months
WHY DIDNT THEY FUCKING TELL ME BACK THEN SO I COULD HAVE BLACK MAILED THE FUCK OUT OF SAVIOR FOR ATLEAST HALF HIS PROFITS
then i could have bought all the boji cars and not have to worry about which one is best!
You said before this would be a wound that SC programing scene could heal and grow from - but what do u think are the risks of it totally destroying most of the fanbase with the revealing of the players? I mean atm we still eagerly await news, but will it strike to the heart of SC legends such as Boxer, Yellow, NaDa?
Can we even begin to imagine the scope that the match-fixing has infiltrated into SC?
it's better to know the players involved rather than being suspicious of everyone
and afaik legends like boxer etc r not involved
My heart is at ease for now - and i can also now stop refreshing this page every 5 seconds and go to sleep. Thanks for the quick replies!
On April 10 2010 23:36 Rekrul wrote: man some of my korean friends have known about this for months
WHY DIDNT THEY FUCKING TELL ME BACK THEN SO I COULD HAVE BLACK MAILED THE FUCK OUT OF SAVIOR FOR ATLEAST HALF HIS PROFITS
then i could have bought all the boji cars and not have to worry about which one is best!
You said before this would be a wound that SC programing scene could heal and grow from - but what do u think are the risks of it totally destroying most of the fanbase with the revealing of the players? I mean atm we still eagerly await news, but will it strike to the heart of SC legends such as Boxer, Yellow, NaDa?
Can we even begin to imagine the scope that the match-fixing has infiltrated into SC?
it's better to know the players involved rather than being suspicious of everyone
and afaik legends like boxer etc r not involved
Can i ask about Flash? is he tarnished by this aswell?
On April 10 2010 23:18 Plexa wrote: This thread is the perfect example of terrible posting by a shit ton of you. I'm glad you didn't post that list rek, these people don't deserve it.
On April 10 2010 23:36 Rekrul wrote: man some of my korean friends have known about this for months
WHY DIDNT THEY FUCKING TELL ME BACK THEN SO I COULD HAVE BLACK MAILED THE FUCK OUT OF SAVIOR FOR ATLEAST HALF HIS PROFITS
then i could have bought all the boji cars and not have to worry about which one is best!
You said before this would be a wound that SC programing scene could heal and grow from - but what do u think are the risks of it totally destroying most of the fanbase with the revealing of the players? I mean atm we still eagerly await news, but will it strike to the heart of SC legends such as Boxer, Yellow, NaDa?
Can we even begin to imagine the scope that the match-fixing has infiltrated into SC?
it's better to know the players involved rather than being suspicious of everyone
and afaik legends like boxer etc r not involved
Can i ask about Flash? is he tarnished by this aswell?
Oh, come on, man. Is there a single game in Flash's career that even remotely looks like it could have been thrown?
(...besides the PL All-Star game vs Savior where he was nuking )
On April 10 2010 23:36 Rekrul wrote: man some of my korean friends have known about this for months
WHY DIDNT THEY FUCKING TELL ME BACK THEN SO I COULD HAVE BLACK MAILED THE FUCK OUT OF SAVIOR FOR ATLEAST HALF HIS PROFITS
then i could have bought all the boji cars and not have to worry about which one is best!
You said before this would be a wound that SC programing scene could heal and grow from - but what do u think are the risks of it totally destroying most of the fanbase with the revealing of the players? I mean atm we still eagerly await news, but will it strike to the heart of SC legends such as Boxer, Yellow, NaDa?
Can we even begin to imagine the scope that the match-fixing has infiltrated into SC?
it's better to know the players involved rather than being suspicious of everyone
and afaik legends like boxer etc r not involved
Can i ask about Flash? is he tarnished by this aswell?
Oh, come on, man. Is there a single game in Flash's career that even remotely looks like it could have been thrown?
(...besides the PL All-Star game vs Savior where he was nuking )
Nah but i still want to know, don't really care about other players but i'd like to know about flash
On April 10 2010 23:36 Rekrul wrote: man some of my korean friends have known about this for months
WHY DIDNT THEY FUCKING TELL ME BACK THEN SO I COULD HAVE BLACK MAILED THE FUCK OUT OF SAVIOR FOR ATLEAST HALF HIS PROFITS
then i could have bought all the boji cars and not have to worry about which one is best!
You said before this would be a wound that SC programing scene could heal and grow from - but what do u think are the risks of it totally destroying most of the fanbase with the revealing of the players? I mean atm we still eagerly await news, but will it strike to the heart of SC legends such as Boxer, Yellow, NaDa?
Can we even begin to imagine the scope that the match-fixing has infiltrated into SC?
it's better to know the players involved rather than being suspicious of everyone
and afaik legends like boxer etc r not involved
Can i ask about Flash? is he tarnished by this aswell?
Oh, come on, man. Is there a single game in Flash's career that even remotely looks like it could have been thrown?
(...besides the PL All-Star game vs Savior where he was nuking )
I thought the fourth game in the recent msl finals seemed like flash threw the game..
On April 10 2010 23:18 Plexa wrote: This thread is the perfect example of terrible posting by a shit ton of you. I'm glad you didn't post that list rek, these people don't deserve it.
You're blaming people for being skeptical?
Skepticism doesn't give you a free license to post like an idiot. Rather than ban people consider this a public warning to mind your post quality. It's not just confined to this thread either by the looks of things....
On April 10 2010 23:36 Rekrul wrote: man some of my korean friends have known about this for months
WHY DIDNT THEY FUCKING TELL ME BACK THEN SO I COULD HAVE BLACK MAILED THE FUCK OUT OF SAVIOR FOR ATLEAST HALF HIS PROFITS
then i could have bought all the boji cars and not have to worry about which one is best!
You said before this would be a wound that SC programing scene could heal and grow from - but what do u think are the risks of it totally destroying most of the fanbase with the revealing of the players? I mean atm we still eagerly await news, but will it strike to the heart of SC legends such as Boxer, Yellow, NaDa?
Can we even begin to imagine the scope that the match-fixing has infiltrated into SC?
it's better to know the players involved rather than being suspicious of everyone
and afaik legends like boxer etc r not involved
Can i ask about Flash? is he tarnished by this aswell?
Oh, come on, man. Is there a single game in Flash's career that even remotely looks like it could have been thrown?
(...besides the PL All-Star game vs Savior where he was nuking )
I thought the fourth game in the recent msl finals seemed like flash threw the game..
lawl. game 4 was more of a "wtf this is stupid" frustration build. had he won/lost game 3 without the poweroutage i guarantee he wouldnt of done that
also scara dun worry. not sure if it was rek but he said players like bisu/jd/flash/stork not involved apparently
On April 10 2010 23:36 Rekrul wrote: man some of my korean friends have known about this for months
WHY DIDNT THEY FUCKING TELL ME BACK THEN SO I COULD HAVE BLACK MAILED THE FUCK OUT OF SAVIOR FOR ATLEAST HALF HIS PROFITS
then i could have bought all the boji cars and not have to worry about which one is best!
You said before this would be a wound that SC programing scene could heal and grow from - but what do u think are the risks of it totally destroying most of the fanbase with the revealing of the players? I mean atm we still eagerly await news, but will it strike to the heart of SC legends such as Boxer, Yellow, NaDa?
Can we even begin to imagine the scope that the match-fixing has infiltrated into SC?
it's better to know the players involved rather than being suspicious of everyone
and afaik legends like boxer etc r not involved
Can i ask about Flash? is he tarnished by this aswell?
Oh, come on, man. Is there a single game in Flash's career that even remotely looks like it could have been thrown?
(...besides the PL All-Star game vs Savior where he was nuking )
I thought the fourth game in the recent msl finals seemed like flash threw the game..
Nope. It was just the "You-Just-Gave-The-Third-Set-To-Jaedong-Before-The-Game-Was-Over-No-Thanks-To-POWER-OUTAGE-And-I-Don't-Give-A-Shit-Now-=(" game
I lost 8k when bisu beat savior 3-0 in the finals. I wonder what the odds for that game were on the Korean betting sites; how much did Savior stand to make if he threw that finals 0-3?
Wow. Savior being the biggest culprit... Just wow. My earliest memories of him included reading an interview where he said he donated his winnings to charity and that he was a Christian. The transition from fucking legend to piece of shit player you auto-liquibetted against was pretty swift though (even though it took most of us months, some of us even years, to admit it).
On April 10 2010 19:58 404.Delirium wrote: I can't tell what's more extreme. The brilliance and hilarity of this thread or the lack of people that don't read the whole thread before posting. (Been guilty of that with the Bel-Air thread. Learned that lesson quick. I believe ETT quoted me and said I wasn't aware of how full of fail I was.)
This whole drama bomb thing kind of rekindled my BW fire though. It's just seemed real stale lately. Lately being last year+.
<3's Rekrul. <3's TL. <3's ETT
So you didn't read the whole thread? lol.
Why the fuck did that Bel Air thread get deleted in the end anyway?
I'm not all too surprised... I mean given their situations its inevitable that these types of things come up. I'm more surprised that it took 8 years for this to come to the surface.
On April 10 2010 22:41 Kage wrote: Appropriate title after all Rekrul (I was wrong) heh.. Atleast you got one thing right there.
What is interesting is that the possibility of shady betting (japan, korea are notorious for this) but the lack of strong evidence or conclusion. This is genius way of presentation and engagement.
Is this an easy way to say to hide players' incompetency? Could players have gone to court without anyone knowing? Was it that well hidden? Are Rekruls sources wrong? There is only one way to find out.
Artosis. You are our man. If you can't do it then no one can.
The ironic thing is that people were condemned for questioning Rekrul's statement regarding the whoring and we're seeing the same thing happen here - anyone who doubts that prostitutes are the cause of the slumps must be a denier!
In savior's case, I think its highly likely that his early losses (for example to Bisu) that sent him into a slump weren't fixed. Who would pass up a chance at a title plus money just for illegal money? But once he started to lose confidence in his play, the only way to keep up his lifestyle monetarily was to fix his matches, which is what he's been doing.
On April 11 2010 00:24 arcticStorm wrote: In savior's case, I think its highly likely that his early losses (for example to Bisu) that sent him into a slump weren't fixed. Who would pass up a chance at a title plus money just for illegal money? But once he started to lose confidence in his play, the only way to keep up his lifestyle monetarily was to fix his matches, which is what he's been doing.
The thing is though that after he was already losing steadily him losing wouldn't be worth that much in the betting market, if he indeed is one of the main culprits it has to have started when he was on the top. Which is super sad because I've always considered the GOM finals between Bisu and Savior to be one of the most important/entertaining happenings in the history of StarCraft.
I really wonder what kind of effect this whole thing is going to have on the scene now that the information has gone out like this, a lot of fan bases will be destroyed and I am sure there's tons of SC spectators who will lose interest because of this. Good news for the future of SC2 taking over BW I guess? -_-
On April 11 2010 00:08 Smuft wrote: I lost 8k when bisu beat savior 3-0 in the finals. I wonder what the odds for that game were on the Korean betting sites; how much did Savior stand to make if he threw that finals 0-3?
i lost 16k when jangbi got inexplicably raped 1-3 to lux in the msl finals. similar feelings of tilt rising
On April 11 2010 00:08 Smuft wrote: I lost 8k when bisu beat savior 3-0 in the finals. I wonder what the odds for that game were on the Korean betting sites; how much did Savior stand to make if he threw that finals 0-3?
I know I said I'm sure it happens before, but do you or Rek actually think it would happen in a finals, when all eyes are watching?
It makes a lot less sense to do it when you're at the top, than if you're just a regular player who's not making much and isn't in contention for those big prizes.
I think this is the worst thing that could have ever happened to a savior fan. Not only do you learn that your most favourite gamer of all time is a cheating scumbag. It also makes me realise savior could have become the greatest of all time if he hadn't done that. =/
On April 11 2010 00:08 Smuft wrote: I lost 8k when bisu beat savior 3-0 in the finals. I wonder what the odds for that game were on the Korean betting sites; how much did Savior stand to make if he threw that finals 0-3?
I know I said I'm sure it happens before, but do you or Rek actually think it would happen in a finals, when all eyes are watching?
It makes a lot less sense to do it when you're at the top, than if you're just a regular player who's not making much and isn't in contention for those big prizes.
On April 11 2010 00:08 Smuft wrote: I lost 8k when bisu beat savior 3-0 in the finals. I wonder what the odds for that game were on the Korean betting sites; how much did Savior stand to make if he threw that finals 0-3?
I know I said I'm sure it happens before, but do you or Rek actually think it would happen in a finals, when all eyes are watching?
It makes a lot less sense to do it when you're at the top, than if you're just a regular player who's not making much and isn't in contention for those big prizes.
I'm no expert in Korean Culture, but most of the times the highest tv ratings(and public attendance) is when a final appears (just compare a regular WL game to WL finals). If there are more people watching, the chances of more people betting on the game increases as well. If there are more people betting, there are more profit of allowing the worst player to win and if anyone think that Bisu was the favorite to win that msl final against Savior, think again.(I hope you see my point).
I'm super mad about all this. I love and adore Savior. He created so many cool games, both against NaDa, Bisu, Nal_ra etc and i remember in every interview he does he always says: "I will try harder"..."Next time i'll go far, i promise". But if all that was just bullshit, then Savior can fuck off and stop playing for all I care.
This is going to strike right to the heart of eSports in korea, and I think this is a bad thing for the future of esports in general. With SC2 coming out soon investors both domestic and foreign will be looking for inspiration from the korean pro scene into where they should be putting their money and forwarding the sport and this kind of scandal is really going to make them think twice before putting large amounts of money on the line. No brand wants to be associated with match fixing or shady activities like this. If this blows up the SC1 scene is going to take a massive hit and I don't think it has the legs left in it to recover
I want some evidence. There's a lot of talk about 100% and "no joke" taken to court? Until I get an official source or article on this I'm not buying it. In addition, if they were taken to court I'm pretty sure people would have already caught on and the coaches and their teamates would be like wtf. If you go to court people know >>, It's in ur records
On April 11 2010 01:47 AppleTart wrote: I want some evidence. There's a lot of talk about 100% and "no joke" taken to court? Until I get an official source or article on this I'm not buying it. In addition, if they were taken to court I'm pretty sure people would have already caught on and the coaches and their teamates would be like wtf. If you go to court people know >>, It's in ur records
yeah that's apparently not the definition of keeping it quiet
On April 10 2010 23:36 Rekrul wrote: man some of my korean friends have known about this for months
WHY DIDNT THEY FUCKING TELL ME BACK THEN SO I COULD HAVE BLACK MAILED THE FUCK OUT OF SAVIOR FOR ATLEAST HALF HIS PROFITS
then i could have bought all the boji cars and not have to worry about which one is best!
You said before this would be a wound that SC programing scene could heal and grow from - but what do u think are the risks of it totally destroying most of the fanbase with the revealing of the players? I mean atm we still eagerly await news, but will it strike to the heart of SC legends such as Boxer, Yellow, NaDa?
Can we even begin to imagine the scope that the match-fixing has infiltrated into SC?
it's better to know the players involved rather than being suspicious of everyone
and afaik legends like boxer etc r not involved
Thank god. If all the legends and icons were involved, we probably could bury esports as a whole in Korea because no sponsor would be willing to give money to such a corrupt scene...
On April 11 2010 01:47 AppleTart wrote: I want some evidence. There's a lot of talk about 100% and "no joke" taken to court? Until I get an official source or article on this I'm not buying it. In addition, if they were taken to court I'm pretty sure people would have already caught on and the coaches and their teamates would be like wtf. If you go to court people know >>, It's in ur records
These players are owned by massive chaebols (Samsung Group, Woongjin Group, KT, SKT, STX, etc) with huge economic and political power. Even today, these chaebols have a history of being quite corrupt as well as being extremely influential.
Doesn't surprise me that these companies as well as the Korean government would like to keep this quiet in an attempt to keep progaming look legitimate. And I'm not surprised they have the ability to do this...really just look at this as one massive clusterfuck where some of the largest companies in Korea (and in Samsung's case, the world) are in damage control.
I'd make a lot of sense especialy with guys like Upmagic and Sangho. Both players are on eStro, a team that probably currently pays their players as well as Hanbit payed Free back in the day, and both players were actually really good. If you gave them $20,000 to throw a single game, they'd probably take it since its basically their yearly salary.
On April 11 2010 01:47 AppleTart wrote: I want some evidence. There's a lot of talk about 100% and "no joke" taken to court? Until I get an official source or article on this I'm not buying it. In addition, if they were taken to court I'm pretty sure people would have already caught on and the coaches and their teamates would be like wtf. If you go to court people know >>, It's in ur records
Honestly though, I'm worried.... cuz there are some subtle hints about this stuff being true.
1) PL changed their format of releasing their lineup ahead of time. They explained this was specifically to help prevent illegal betting.
2) The names exposed the most for taking part in this kind of illegal betting (Luxury, UpMagic) were moved down to B-Team in the last april roster. Although this may not necessarily mean it's proof, you do have to be suspicious.
Wow this is going to destroy the professional E-Sports league. Also, remember that starcraft has not been included at WCG this year in the first list of games. This is going to definitely hurt its chances. Hope for the best.
And, uh...Rekrul, can you plz give us the list that you already have? We're anxiously waiting. T_T
Is part of the problem due to the free agency rule changes? With dominant players like flash and jaedong, not too many players can expect to win anything noteworthy, and couple that with a system that seems to stifle the players' pay, then perhaps that is the result.
Look, the beauty of argument here is that it seems everyone has been convinced of this merely by Rekrul's reputation, which doesn't actually contribute any evidence to the truthfulness of the situation. I'm not saying it hasn't happened in at least one game or something, I'm saying without any evidence, I'm not leaping on the boat believing that the sport which I have loved for the past 2 years has been a lie, but it seems like a lot of people see that.
for example: If you ask me, this is a scam to further destroy BW and advance SC2. I have just as much "evidence" as rekrul; I don't have the reputation: the ethos.
So in conclusion: I'm not saying rekrul's lying, I'm saying there is NOTHING to support what he's saying. Perhaps some cooincidental changes in rules or whatnot.
On April 11 2010 02:40 gumbum8 wrote: Look, the beauty of argument here is that it seems everyone has been convinced of this merely by Rekrul's reputation, which doesn't actually contribute any evidence to the truthfulness of the situation. I'm not saying it hasn't happened in at least one game or something, I'm saying without any evidence, I'm not leaping on the boat believing that the sport which I have loved for the past 2 years has been a lie, but it seems like a lot of people see that.
for example: If you ask me, this is a scam to further destroy BW and advance SC2. I have just as much "evidence" as rekrul; I don't have the reputation: the ethos.
So in conclusion: I'm not saying rekrul's lying, I'm saying there is NOTHING to support what he's saying. Perhaps some cooincidental changes in rules or whatnot.
At the very least, Korean rumors ala Waxangel's thread turn out to be accurate 99% of the time. There's also a shit ton of circumstantial shit which all adds up.
Untill there is any confirmed source or evidence to prove such claims...Rekrul might be pulling everyone's leg like an ass but this is one of the most serious issues that has hit this site. It's nothing to admit you were joking about, but it is tempting to think it would be true given the power and money these corporations in korea have and the high stakes in progaming.
On April 11 2010 02:50 ChaseR wrote: Untill there is any confirmed source or evidence to prove such claims...Rekrul might be pulling everyone's leg like an ass but this is one of the most serious issues that has hit this site. It's nothing to admit you were joking about, but it is tempting to think it would be true given the power and money these corporations in korea have and the high stakes in progaming.
Corruption...*shudder*
On April 10 2010 16:10 Milkis wrote:
Will translate important bits in a second. They're nowhere near official, other than the first one, since they're all seem to be a cafe blog post from a betting community.
First Image:
Sounds like an official that is posting about the Bogus - Savior match, which they seem to be very very certain that it was rigged.
The last underlined bit talks about Bisu in that they think Bisu's matches that day also seemed a bit more rigged, but The Bogus - Savior game was something they actually got a report on.
Second Image:
Someone just talking about the logistics of it.
Third Image:
Someone posting that "Police are finally taking action" against Starcraft Betting
Fourth Image:
The Cafe Staff warning about Betting in games by UpMaGic, YellOw[ArnC], Luxury, because "everyone knows" there are forces behind planning their games.
On April 11 2010 00:08 Smuft wrote: I lost 8k when bisu beat savior 3-0 in the finals. I wonder what the odds for that game were on the Korean betting sites; how much did Savior stand to make if he threw that finals 0-3?
Throwing matches in eSports I always suspected this happened regularly across all competitive videogames. Isn't it the reason MLG dropped SSBM from the Pro Circuit a while back? More money was being moved thru the betting of matches than the actual prize winnings.
I wouldn't count on this doing much damage to eSports in general besides the image of the involved players. This is actually a pretty big step for eSports. If you have progamers making above average salaries throwing matches because there is more money involved with the gambling than the winnings or at least enough to convince a player to throw a match it probably means that team sizes are going to get cut down but salaries are going to be increased.
Like the new PL rules we will see other measures to avoid the matches being rigged and they usually make things more interesting because they go for rules that increse the amount of speculation before each match.
On April 10 2010 13:14 micronesia wrote: On what criminal charges exactly would the gamers be arrested?
most forms of gambling including sportsbetting are illegal in korea
Yes, but what would the progamer get in trouble for? They weren't the ones gambling.
They were the ones that caused a lot of people to make a lot of money illegally
That argument doesn't really make any sense. He would have been the cause of that no matter whether he won/lost on purpose. I think micronesia's doubts about this seem fairly intelligent, actually. The court cannot really control the actions of people in this way. They can do whatever the fuck they want when the compete, and, as I see it, the only way they could be incrimated by something like this was if they signed a contract which took this into account.
Basically yeah... although violating a contract doesn't get you arrested...
Somehow my 'doubts' about this have been utterly retarded to the point of several people I know laughing at me... wtf is wrong with people lol
If you accept a bribe to throw a sporting event you can be convicted of bribery. I don't know if the laws work the same in korea as they do here, but you certainly can get jail time for it, and definitely a heavy fine. But that's if they can prove it, which could obviously be hard to do in some cases.
I'm still not buying this... if anyone else brought it up with this amount of "hard" evidence (all of what we are saying is speculation and deduction using logic) we would just call him/her a troll and close this thread. Because Rek brought it up, many people who have never looked into it on their own are just eating it up. In all honesty, there's a bit of dirt in every sport. If there is dirt amongst SC, that would be disappointing but until I get hard evidence I may be suspicious, but I'm not going to eat it all up and just start calling everyone phonies. This also in no way harms my image of Starcraft as an E-Sport. It's still highly competitive and the reputation these players earn is worth not only money, but pride money cannot buy. The games these players give us are amazing and breathtaking. While some dirtiness may exist, we won't know for sure. For now we can only speculate.
Also, about the comments about Bisu beating Savior. Firstly, after that one game, Savior has never been the same and we all know that, that one defeat crushed him. There has to be times where players fade out and fade in, during these transitions we can't just attribute it to bribery or some sort of betting. Also, it's not like Bisu was a bad player. When Bisu was tearing it up, he was a monster and beat everyone and Savior lost to like.. everyone... Bisu has proved himself to be on the level able to take down Savior and he has maintained (until recently) a level in which make his achievements legit. You can't say everytime Bisu played someone bribed his opponent to lose so he would look good and vice versa for Savior. Emergence of Bisu leads down a downfall of Savior after Bisu revolutionized PvZ, Savior just couldn't get back up, I don't see how that implies bribery. When Flash came out and dominated for the first time was there bribery involved? Good players have to come out sometime and somewhere, and its when they defeat a great we finally recognize them. You cant expect savior to be the eternal best in SC forever, the game is so dynamic and there are so many players that one day everyone's dominance will end. Once again, who knows what's really going on. But until you do your own research, don't just eat up other people's words and take them for fact and rage at Starcraft E-Sports
On April 11 2010 03:20 Divinek wrote: If you accept a bribe to throw a sporting event you can be convicted of bribery. I don't know if the laws work the same in korea as they do here, but you certainly can get jail time for it, and definitely a heavy fine. But that's if they can prove it, which could obviously be hard to do in some cases.
Yeah from the wikipedia article on Bribery it says "Bribery constitutes a crime and is defined by Black's Law Dictionary as the offering, giving, receiving, or soliciting of any item of value to influence the actions of an official or other person in charge of a public or legal duty."
So accepting money in order to get a certain law passed or something like that would definitely be illegal if proved. However, accepting money to throw my TSL game isn't a legal duty... and I'm not sure what constitutes a public duty.
On April 10 2010 15:16 UmmTheHobo wrote: Rekrul if you started a class teaching people how to succesfully troll, I would honestly pay money to be enrolled.
On April 11 2010 03:20 Divinek wrote: If you accept a bribe to throw a sporting event you can be convicted of bribery. I don't know if the laws work the same in korea as they do here, but you certainly can get jail time for it, and definitely a heavy fine. But that's if they can prove it, which could obviously be hard to do in some cases.
Yeah from the wikipedia article on Bribery it says "Bribery constitutes a crime and is defined by Black's Law Dictionary as the offering, giving, receiving, or soliciting of any item of value to influence the actions of an official or other person in charge of a public or legal duty."
So accepting money in order to get a certain law passed or something like that would definitely be illegal if proved. However, accepting money to throw my TSL game isn't a legal duty... and I'm not sure what constitutes a public duty.
Well any kind of official sporting even falls under it and you can definitely be convicted for throwing stuff like this. But obviously tsl isn't the same, and the korean laws could be very different.
Thanks for the interesting read, Rek. Urgh, I have a terrible feeling this will start a string of threads saying this will ring the death knell for BW and pave the way for SC2.
On April 11 2010 03:20 Divinek wrote: If you accept a bribe to throw a sporting event you can be convicted of bribery. I don't know if the laws work the same in korea as they do here, but you certainly can get jail time for it, and definitely a heavy fine. But that's if they can prove it, which could obviously be hard to do in some cases.
Yeah from the wikipedia article on Bribery it says "Bribery constitutes a crime and is defined by Black's Law Dictionary as the offering, giving, receiving, or soliciting of any item of value to influence the actions of an official or other person in charge of a public or legal duty."
So accepting money in order to get a certain law passed or something like that would definitely be illegal if proved. However, accepting money to throw my TSL game isn't a legal duty... and I'm not sure what constitutes a public duty.
Well any kind of official sporting even falls under it and you can definitely be convicted for throwing stuff like this. But obviously tsl isn't the same, and the korean laws could be very different.
What makes a sporting event official?
I'd guess it has to do with whether or not the local government has spent tax money on the stadium/etc to support the local economy?
I don't really follow the logic of the "this will kill BW and help SC2" echoed in this thread. I've just been assuming that ppl just really want SC2 to get big, because it doesn't make sense. The same corporations and most likely the same players in SC1 will eventually play SC2 if it mattered. A tarnished record will also carry over.
So much speculation still, for now this is still just rumors it seems after reading through the entire thread. Can people stop talking before Rekrul posts something more, 90% of the posts in this thread is WTF.
If this is true, Savior is the most pathetic guy ever. Destroy everyone in 2009 my ass, die please. If Nada is in on this I will quit following Starcraft completely.
What the.... O_o Can't really comment too much apart from the fact that this being discussed on Korean sites too means this rumour isn't purely restricted to the word of Rekrul. So you can probably rule out joke topic or troll as some people seem to think. Unless it's an extremely elaborate troll
I just hope that it's handled correctly. Trying to hush it all up would do nothing but harm for the ESPORTS scene. Now that these rumours are out of the bag, every time a player loses or slumps there'll be that suspicion. Only more transparency can solve this. All players involved need to be named and shamed, hung out to dry. Otherwise we'll be questioning every single upset and dramatic match there's been. Hell people are already doing that in this thread, simply because we don't know the names involved yet.
Watching this with interest!
(It'd break my nerd heart if Jaedong or Flash were involved, surely they'd be above this? )
When I was doing coverage on GOM's league I developed a feeling that some series were following a script. Like the WWF. I pushed the suspicion aside because there was also a strong impression that the players didn't give a damn, despite the prize pool. I don't have any insight into this rumor, but I have to admit that at least as far as GOM is concerned, it would fit the equation.
Less prestigious league + massive underdogs that don't even qualify for more prestigious leagues + massive upsets left 'n right.....
The game I saw which most blatantly looked "fixed" was in the PL Playoffs last year, Hwasin vs Juni. Hwasin bunker-rushed but misplaced his bunker, but Juni is so terrible Hwasin still won. He couldn't convincingly not win. The whole game was weird as hell.
Re. Luxury vs Jangbi MSL finals: that looked (at the time) like solid but uninspired play by a poor PvZ'er getting crushed by a Zerg who looked better during that tournament run than he'd ever looked before. It didn't seem suspicious - I mean poor PvZ vs poor ZvP, something's got to give, right? - and Luxury had been playing like a maniac.
Re. this set of accusations: if we assume a "handle it quietly" mentality is in place, the current top suspects would be the decent or well-known players kicked down to B-team for no "obvious" reason in the last few months: Rock, sAviOr, Justin, UpMagic, SangHo, Luxury, July. (Okay, Rock sucks, but he stayed on roster for a year and a half of PL for no good reason.)
If there really have been legal actions taken as well, should we look as well at people who have been missing games for one reason or another lately? This would add Hwasin, Bisu, and Jaedong to the list of "suspects", in that order of decreasing suspiciousness (I think).
Next point: Is team management involved? Consider: - KHAN has been very unwilling to play newer players over the last few years, even when older players started slipping. Counterpoint: Round One of 2009-2010 season and the utterly sucky results. - OZ's bizarre attitudes about players: Coach Cho's overwork but overprotectiveness of JD, the weird fOrGG to KT trade. - eSTRO sucking ass in general despite what ought to have been a roster at least as talented as mediocre teams like Stars or last year's MBC.
Finally, from last night's PL: Killer vs Bogus. Discuss.
I really don't want this to be true. On the other hand, the incentives have been pointed out, and that's hard to deny. Between incentives and a certain willingness in Korean culture to accept cheating as a legitimate means to "success" (I had my mental image of the "Asian classroom" jarred severely when I went to teach in Korea last year), the whole thing is surprisingly plausible. I'd like hard evidence before I really pass final judgment though.
Man, this shit is going to put a stain all over Korean e-sports. The biggest thing will be to see the fan reactions over there when this all gets settled.
I do believe this is 100% true. I fucking believed it at the very first post. Don't know why any of you would of doubted it will all the recent roster changes and shit going on.
On April 11 2010 05:45 tonight wrote: Man, this shit is going to put a stain all over Korean e-sports. The biggest thing will be to see the fan reactions over there when this all gets settled.
I do believe this is 100% true. I fucking believed it at the very first post. Don't know why any of you would of doubted it will all the recent roster changes and shit going on.
I just hope EVERYONE that participated in this nonsense gets caught honestly. I want them all to be exposed and hopefully they'll lose their precious fan cafes lol
On April 11 2010 05:45 tonight wrote: I do believe this is 100% true. I fucking believed it at the very first post. Don't know why any of you would of doubted it will all the recent roster changes and shit going on.
You believe what is true? Fact is, we still don't know shit about this. It could be huge, it could be a small number of games, OR it could be just rumors.
On April 11 2010 01:47 AppleTart wrote: I want some evidence. There's a lot of talk about 100% and "no joke" taken to court? Until I get an official source or article on this I'm not buying it. In addition, if they were taken to court I'm pretty sure people would have already caught on and the coaches and their teamates would be like wtf. If you go to court people know >>, It's in ur records
Honestly though, I'm worried.... cuz there are some subtle hints about this stuff being true.
1) PL changed their format of releasing their lineup ahead of time. They explained this was specifically to help prevent illegal betting.
2) The names exposed the most for taking part in this kind of illegal betting (Luxury, UpMagic) were moved down to B-Team in the last april roster. Although this may not necessarily mean it's proof, you do have to be suspicious.
O_O that's pretty messed up. I guess Rekrul was prolly telling the truth then. I mean eSTRO is so bad and UpMagic is one of their aces, so if he went down to the B team, it's very suspicious. Luxury I can kinda see, but even so, I think that KT wishes they'd have Luxury when they're forced to send out Hoejja.
sAviOr being involved in this is kinda obvious IMO; the guy slumped waaaaay too hard to be legit. I think the only two current top players that we can know forsure are clean are JD and FlaSh. They've both claimed to be very interested in breaking starcraft records related to winning, and they've consistently dominated everything.
On April 11 2010 05:45 tonight wrote: I do believe this is 100% true. I fucking believed it at the very first post. Don't know why any of you would of doubted it will all the recent roster changes and shit going on.
You believe what is true? Fact is, we still don't know shit about this. It could be huge, it could be a small number of games, OR it could be just rumors.
What do you mean "You believe what is true?". If you step back and look at all the recent activity that's been going on in the scene and the things we're now hearing from Korean e-sports sites and from the netzens it makes a lot of sense. A small number of games is still huge and I think we're past rumors at this point. Without any concrete evidence that we know of yet we're past rumors.
2009: On May 6, a federal grand jury in Detroit indicted six former University of Toledo athletes—three each from the school's football and basketball programs—on charges of conspiracy to commit sports bribery in relation to their alleged involvement in a point shaving scheme that ran from 2003 through 2006.
On April 11 2010 07:43 Maynard wrote: Not surprised at all that they'd do this. I'm actually surprised that there is so much money in pro gamer betting
Pretty much my thought. Every professional sport has had some type of gambling scandal in its past, I just didnt expect there to be enough money in SC for that to take place.
On April 10 2010 19:58 404.Delirium wrote: I can't tell what's more extreme. The brilliance and hilarity of this thread or the lack of people that don't read the whole thread before posting. (Been guilty of that with the Bel-Air thread. Learned that lesson quick. I believe ETT quoted me and said I wasn't aware of how full of fail I was.)
This whole drama bomb thing kind of rekindled my BW fire though. It's just seemed real stale lately. Lately being last year+.
<3's Rekrul. <3's TL. <3's ETT
So you didn't read the whole thread? lol.
Why the fuck did that Bel Air thread get deleted in the end anyway?
any chance, that this will increase players salaries so they are less prone to do shit for some bucks, but that they keep all their thoughts on the game... i guess not too likely..
i always felt that all the progamers had so much pride in what they do and these new were quite to swallow at first but then again i'm not naive..
On April 11 2010 08:11 HeaDStrong wrote: any chance, that this will increase players salaries so they are less prone to do shit for some bucks, but that they keep all their thoughts on the game... i guess not too likely..
i always felt that all the progamers had so much pride in what they do and these new were quite to swallow at first but then again i'm not naive..
lol if anything pro gamers are MORE likely to do something like this than general population.
2009: On May 6, a federal grand jury in Detroit indicted six former University of Toledo athletes—three each from the school's football and basketball programs—on charges of conspiracy to commit sports bribery in relation to their alleged involvement in a point shaving scheme that ran from 2003 through 2006.
From what I've looked up so far it seems like you would be an accomplice to a special type of theft. If party A makes a bet with party B but pays progamer C to throw the game, then party A has stolen from party B and progamer C is an accomplice.
edit: I assume 'sports bribery' is a nickname since it doesn't have to be about sports specifically... just the fixing of gambling... but gambling is technically illegal in most cases so I'd still need someone to explain this a bit futher.
On April 11 2010 08:11 HeaDStrong wrote: any chance, that this will increase players salaries so they are less prone to do shit for some bucks, but that they keep all their thoughts on the game... i guess not too likely..
i always felt that all the progamers had so much pride in what they do and these new were quite to swallow at first but then again i'm not naive..
lol if anything pro gamers are MORE likely to do something like this than general population.
that wasn't even remotely my point... i mean pro sc is not really that glamorous, when you compare how much work you put into it and how little return you get... so they must really love what they do in order to stick with it, but this all disproves my idealistic view on the scene... and what you wrote doesnt make any sense and where did i say anything about general populatio bribes? from whom? what for? uhh wut... ??????
On April 11 2010 08:11 HeaDStrong wrote: any chance, that this will increase players salaries so they are less prone to do shit for some bucks, but that they keep all their thoughts on the game... i guess not too likely..
i always felt that all the progamers had so much pride in what they do and these new were quite to swallow at first but then again i'm not naive..
lol if anything pro gamers are MORE likely to do something like this than general population.
that wasn't even remotely my point... i mean pro sc is not really that glamorous, when you compare how much work you put into it and how little return you get... so they must really love what they do in order to stick with it, but this all disproves my idealistic view on the scene... and what you wrote doesnt make any sense and where did i say anything about general populatio bribes? from whom? what for? uhh wut... ??????
His point is that being in a progaming environment makes you more susceptible/likely to take bribes than someone who grew up from the general population, either due to maturity or simply the fact that they're constantly being manipulated/managed, by their parents/coaches/sponsors/etc., so being manipulated for this purpose is not as much of a challenge as it would be to have most adults do the same thing. As Rekrul said, to do this you need to be very short sighted or ignorant. Boys tend to be both.
On April 10 2010 23:18 Plexa wrote: This thread is the perfect example of terrible posting by a shit ton of you. I'm glad you didn't post that list rek, these people don't deserve it.
That's a pretty terrible attitude, and I'm disappointed to see you posting stuff like that . If there are bad posters they should be dealt with, but there are plenty of people on here who post decently.
If it were someone other than Rekrul who posted this topic and then went "lol nope not going to post it" I guarantee he would've been banned. Just because Rekrul isn't going to be banned for it is no excuse to act so elitist.
On April 11 2010 08:11 HeaDStrong wrote: any chance, that this will increase players salaries so they are less prone to do shit for some bucks, but that they keep all their thoughts on the game... i guess not too likely..
More likely they'll just be restricted more so the people trying to bribe them can't contact them in the first place.
Can't remember the last time a decision was made that actually benefited the players.
On April 11 2010 08:47 Rekrul wrote: Insane why do you feel the need to post on an AKA instead of your real ID when telling Plexa that he has a terrible attitude?
In general I prefer not to show disagreement between staff on two staff accounts. My intention was not to hide from Plexa, since he can easily tell who I am if he didn't already know my aka.
Since you explicitly mentioned it, I guess it's a bit late to go back and change it all now, but I stand by what I said ^^
On April 11 2010 08:11 HeaDStrong wrote: any chance, that this will increase players salaries so they are less prone to do shit for some bucks, but that they keep all their thoughts on the game... i guess not too likely..
More likely they'll just be restricted more so the people trying to bribe them can't contact them in the first place.
Can't remember the last time a decision was made that actually benefited the players.
Or they just drop a really fucking big ban hammer to deter everyone. But they'll probably do what you said too.
its pretty obvious that there is a lot of credibility to this
lots of known players disappear, bisu, savior, lux, yellow, etc. Shady games, rumors on fomos
If anyone watching Hyungjun or w.e. becomes a pro gamer will notice how SKT1 didnt seem friendly with bisu at all. Also bisu taking a leave of absence the same time as many other players.. recent articles like kingdom talking bad about him. It seems like the league trying to police itself, but obv this will blow up.
You really deserve to be banned for a topic like this; you're just deliberately drama whoring it up, then once it comes to posting actual evidence, you first say that people are too dumb for you to post the list, and then later when you realize that's not really an acceptable conclusion, you claim it was just a joke (I don't actually believe that this was intended to be a joke topic originally).
I'm not going to ban you because I suspect I'd get overruled on it by higher ups, but on the whole stuff like this is really unacceptable, even for blogs.
On April 11 2010 09:10 Insane wrote: You really deserve to be banned for a topic like this; you're just deliberately drama whoring it up, then once it comes to posting actual evidence, you first say that people are too dumb for you to post the list, and then later when you realize that's not really an acceptable conclusion, you claim it was just a joke (I don't actually believe that this was intended to be a joke topic originally).
I'm not going to ban you because I suspect I'd get overruled on it by higher ups, but on the whole stuff like this is really unacceptable, even for blogs.
explain savior, lux, yellow, sangho, bisu, and upmagic all being relegated to b team recently or taking breaks (also think july is in there too). When have teams ever given so many players like this breaks / relegations to b teams?
On April 11 2010 09:10 Insane wrote: You really deserve to be banned for a topic like this; you're just deliberately drama whoring it up, then once it comes to posting actual evidence, you first say that people are too dumb for you to post the list, and then later when you realize that's not really an acceptable conclusion, you claim it was just a joke (I don't actually believe that this was intended to be a joke topic originally).
I'm not going to ban you because I suspect I'd get overruled on it by higher ups, but on the whole stuff like this is really unacceptable, even for blogs.
explain savior, lux, yellow, sangho, bisu, and upmagic all being relegated to b team recently or taking breaks (also think july is in there too). When have teams ever given so many players like this breaks / relegations to b teams?
I'm not sure I understand your point. I actually said in my post that I thought he was telling the truth about it being a scandal, and that I thought he was lying when he said it was just a joke.
Rekrul is just tired of all the 1000 posts that repeat the same "this has to be a joke", so i think just expect his usual middle finger writing style every once in a while when you just feel the need to continue the loop with the "this has to be a joke"
On April 11 2010 09:10 Insane wrote: You really deserve to be banned for a topic like this; you're just deliberately drama whoring it up, then once it comes to posting actual evidence, you first say that people are too dumb for you to post the list, and then later when you realize that's not really an acceptable conclusion, you claim it was just a joke (I don't actually believe that this was intended to be a joke topic originally).
I'm not going to ban you because I suspect I'd get overruled on it by higher ups, but on the whole stuff like this is really unacceptable, even for blogs.
Usually if your laptop came with a webcam it'll come with some software to use it. (Like Dell comes with Dell Webcam Central or some crap like that). Look around the start menu to see if you have something like that since it's the easiest way.
After you record it you could can upload it to youtube assuming you're not uploading some super long video.
I know rekrul has a good track record and all but as several people have pointed out, there is a lack of hard evidence against theses players. Yes it is very possible that there is wide spread corruption, I would just rather have an official source rather than the word of a known troller :/
On April 11 2010 09:43 Insane wrote: Usually if your laptop came with a webcam it'll come with some software to use it. (Like Dell comes with Dell Webcam Central or some crap like that). Look around the start menu to see if you have something like that since it's the easiest way.
After you record it you could can upload it to youtube assuming you're not uploading some super long video.
On April 10 2010 19:58 404.Delirium wrote: I can't tell what's more extreme. The brilliance and hilarity of this thread or the lack of people that don't read the whole thread before posting. (Been guilty of that with the Bel-Air thread. Learned that lesson quick. I believe ETT quoted me and said I wasn't aware of how full of fail I was.)
This whole drama bomb thing kind of rekindled my BW fire though. It's just seemed real stale lately. Lately being last year+.
<3's Rekrul. <3's TL. <3's ETT
So you didn't read the whole thread? lol.
Why the fuck did that Bel Air thread get deleted in the end anyway?
Players dominating for huge stretches and then becoming B team trash makes a lot of sense. It's obviously because their fingers get slower because they have become old. Their brains also become much slower and they can't keep up with the younger players and their super fast fingers and brains.
OMG Savior and Yellow winning all the special events (WWI and Blizzcon) while losing in all the individual leagues. It makes so much more sense now. Just realized that .
i think i'd rather savior have lost his talent. i was never a savior fan, but i appreciated the dominance he unleashed. if all this is true, he pretty much is a scumbag.
i'll be more disappointed if upmagic was involved in this crap, though
EPT
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