• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:37
CEST 01:37
KST 08:37
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL23Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30[ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak15
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 19-25): Hindsight is 20/20?0DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Official Replay Pack8[BSL20] RO20 Group Stage2EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1)19Weekly Cups (May 12-18): Clem sweeps WardiTV May3
StarCraft 2
General
Karma, Domino Effect, and how it relates to SC2. The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN Can anyone explain to me why u cant veto a matchup
Tourneys
EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1) DreamHack Dallas 2025 Last Chance Qualifiers for OlimoLeague 2024 Winter [GSL 2025] Code S:Season 2 - RO12 - Group B [GSL 2025] Code S:Season 2 - RO12 - Group A
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Which player typ excels at which race or match up? Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? Battle.net is not working Practice Partners (Official)
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET [BSL20] RO20 Group D - Sunday 20:00 CET [BSL20] RO20 Group B - Saturday 20:00 CET
Strategy
[G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Monster Hunter Wilds Beyond All Reason Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread All you football fans (soccer)! European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Yes Sir! How Commanding Impr…
TrAiDoS
Poker
Nebuchad
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 13801 users

For the love of 1-baseing

Blogs > TheComeback
Post a Reply
VTArlock
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1763 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-15 03:33:03
March 15 2010 03:32 GMT
#1
So I've played a little over 200 games now on sc2. I am ranked #7 in Gold division #21 (havent played much in the last few days I was #1 :'( )

Anyways, I've come to realize why most games are just a 1 base push, then afterwards (if the game isn't over...) the person will expand and continue on to the next push.

Everything in SC2 is designed to speed up the race to get units out faster... thus there is more potential reward for a big early game push rather than FE and die to the push from the other person..

For Example

Protoss: Has charge ability at Nexus designed to speed up unit/upgrade production, and also has warp gates to spawn units basically anywhere on the map, erasing the need to actually "travel" across the map.

Terran: Has Mule to supplement income, barracks/factory/starport add on to make 2 units at once

Zerg: Has queen spawn larvae ability to speed up unit production.

Now, I love starcraft 2 dont get me wrong I've been playing it non-stop. But I feel these are the reasons starcraft 2 just will never be as good as broodwars. Why it seems there is no uniform to the games were playing. This is why games more often than not arn't intence games of wit and strategy that we all ooh and ahh about when were watching osl/msl, but rather a race to achieve the strongest push.

I'm sure most of you will agree with me when I say that Starcraft Broodwars was is art form. It took finesse, wit, strategy, and fast hands for all of us to wins those games on iccup. It took work and dedication to improve our rank... learning build orders, counters, how to micro and macro properly... But; to me, it seems THIS is what sc2 is lacking. I know it will never happen and I'm not even suggesting sending it to blizzard but I wish blizzard would go back to the drawing board and erase these "mistakes".

YES, its all new, and exciting. But it seems all that blizzard has given us is a game thats full of cheese potential, with so many ways of proxy and rushing and pushing, and back doors into bases...

I apologize for my somber rant but this is just kinda how I feel about it. What do you guys think? Is this the problem of starcraft 2, or is this the new begining?

[image loading]

Poll: What do you think of the potential of sc2?
(Vote): I disagree and I like it, I think theres plenty of potential
(Vote): I agree, I dont like these new features; they hurt the game
(Vote): No opinion. Haven't seen or played the game enough yet.

Edit: I posted this in the starcraft 2 section and it was closed by I dont know who so I reposted here in the blogs. Figured this was a better place to put it?



*
Why?
Misrah
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States1695 Posts
March 15 2010 04:05 GMT
#2
SC2 will suck. the only people that think that SC2 will come anywhere near to SC1 are either new players to the game, or people who are just blinded with hope that everything will turn out better.

SC2 is the toned down version of starcraft that everyone and their mom can play
A thread vaguely bashing SC2? SWARM ON, LOW POST COUNT BRETHREN! DEFEND THE GLORIOUS GAME THAT IS OUR LIVELIHOOD
NonFactor
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden698 Posts
March 15 2010 04:08 GMT
#3
I semi-agree. And it's very annoying as a Zerg player to deal with. It's like every game feels like your getting cheesed at, it's like in SC1, your opponent stays one base and you know somethings coming, and how you deal with it will decide the game. And that's how things usually go down when I play 1v1.

Depending on their push time, they will either get totally destroyed by my army, and I expand and proceed to win, even if they expanded while I attacking. I should have so many drones that I can throw down 2-3 expansions if I confirm that they also expanded. Then I just take control of the map.

Or if their push time comes at a good time, our armies usually negate each other, when the game can get interesting. (If they expanded while pushing.)

But if their push hits the money spot I die right there, and that happens more then I'd like to admit. But with experience when I learn how to properly balance drones etc, it will happen less.
KrAzYfoOL
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
Australia3037 Posts
March 15 2010 04:21 GMT
#4
It's BroodWar not BroodWars.
It's better to burn out than to fade away
Polar_Nada
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States1548 Posts
March 15 2010 04:28 GMT
#5
I disagree. Gretorp, who is currently ranked number 1 in division 9 of plat league won from FEing alot. He even said that he went from top 20 to number 1 just by integrating FE into his build more. And from watching his livestreams, it seems to work very well. He can defend against pushes well and win through his macro lead. at least FE works for terran...
[ReD]NaDa and fnaticMSI.SEn fighting~! ::POlar @ UC Irvine::
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
March 15 2010 04:33 GMT
#6
Well terran has the easiest time defending any expos. (not limited to planetary fortress of pew-pew). The zerg timing has not been well grounded yet.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
zerglingsfolife
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1694 Posts
March 15 2010 04:34 GMT
#7
On March 15 2010 13:28 Polar_Nada wrote:
I disagree. Gretorp, who is currently ranked number 1 in division 9 of plat league won from FEing alot. He even said that he went from top 20 to number 1 just by integrating FE into his build more. And from watching his livestreams, it seems to work very well. He can defend against pushes well and win through his macro lead. at least FE works for terran...


Very well said. His games rarely feature one basing and often end in epic battles after 3-4 bases have been taken when he is able to outmaneuver his opponents.
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crown and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness.
Exteray
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1094 Posts
March 15 2010 05:22 GMT
#8
I think removing these different aspects would simply make SC2 a BroodWar 2.0. That's what they are going for ;-)
petered
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1817 Posts
March 15 2010 05:55 GMT
#9
Early on in SC:BW, 1 base strats were entirely standard and things that we would call "cheese" today was actually quite normal then.

Today's FE heavy SC is only possible because for years people have been perfecting build orders and figuring out how to build the bare minimum of units and maximizing economy.

SC2 is still an economy based game, obviously, so once people figure out how to build the bare minimum while still maximizing economy, FE and other economy oriented strategies will become the norm most likely.

Also, a huge factor in strategy is the maps. It looks to me that most of the current maps are small and give a lot of cheesy options. If this makes for boring games, then they will just design new maps.

So yeah, to say that there is no way that SC2 will ever be as good as SC:BW is just silly. Not that you are definitely wrong, there is just no way to know that you are right or not. Maybe we can start deciding whether or not that is true in a few years.
This, my friends, is the power of the Shikyo Memorial for QQ therapy thread. We make the world a better place, one chainsaw massacre prevention at a time.
VTArlock
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1763 Posts
March 16 2010 03:38 GMT
#10
Wow, interesting responces. Seems the poll is pretty even too. Thanks for your feedback and I agree with you petered that it's just too early to tell. I guess we just need some more time to see how it pans out.
Why?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Road to EWC
22:00
Americas Closed Qualifiers
RotterdaM858
CranKy Ducklings379
EnkiAlexander 114
Liquipedia
BSL 2v2 ProLeague S3
19:00
Day 3 - WB Round 2
ZZZero.O110
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 858
CosmosSc2 259
RuFF_SC2 82
StarCraft: Brood War
ZZZero.O 110
Bonyth 56
Aegong 50
Shine 17
NaDa 17
Counter-Strike
taco 823
flusha647
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox446
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby3507
Khaldor161
Other Games
summit1g8010
tarik_tv7871
FrodaN5713
mouzStarbuck346
ViBE193
Sick60
kaitlyn35
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick768
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH241
• RyuSc2 36
• Hupsaiya 35
• davetesta33
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 13
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21692
• Ler87
League of Legends
• Doublelift6708
• TFBlade1401
Other Games
• imaqtpie1241
• Shiphtur460
Upcoming Events
Road to EWC
9h 23m
Road to EWC
16h 23m
BSL Season 20
18h 23m
Sziky vs Razz
Sziky vs StRyKeR
Sziky vs DragOn
Sziky vs Tech
Razz vs StRyKeR
Razz vs DragOn
Razz vs Tech
DragOn vs Tech
Online Event
1d 4h
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
Road to EWC
1d 9h
Road to EWC
1d 16h
BSL Season 20
1d 18h
Bonyth vs Doodle
Bonyth vs izu
Bonyth vs MadiNho
Bonyth vs TerrOr
MadiNho vs TerrOr
Doodle vs izu
Doodle vs MadiNho
Doodle vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
5 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-05-28
DreamHack Dallas 2025
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL Season 17: Qualifier 1
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.