This subject has been slowly bringing itself into my life. Just having read Jung's Dreams, memories, reflections I am feeling even more justified in talking about psychic phenomenon and not attributing them to coincidence.
In his book he speaks of having dreams where he predicts future events such as the death of a patient he is working on shooting himself in the head, and him having a dream with pain in his head, and a similar incident where he sees someone drowning before going home to find out that one of the children at the residence had almost drowned.
Mine have been less vivid, but still hard to ignore. The first one was a friend who I met on battle.net and that I IM about life's difficulties and the like. Then one night, even though i've never met him he appears as the main element of my dream. When I go to message him about this he has messaged me before saying that he dreamed about me. I was flabbergasted. Even more recently I had a dream where I was getting my appendix removed, having not thought about appendix in ages, and woke up the next day to hear my mum talking to my grandma about my cousin had got his removed which scared teh hell out of me.
My mum has explained to me panicking after waking from her sleep on random nights since i've moved away. These are nights where my life has been endanger.
These are only random examples, there seem to be things that can blow my mind, and I'm wondering if anyone else has such things.
MOD EDIT Due to the nature of this thread, I'll be keeping an eye on it. Please, however much your beliefs differ from anyone else in this thread, keep the discussion mature.
As a skeptic I have a hard time believing any of this. You really need some very specific and solid evidence and multiple examples of this to convince me.
My idea isn't to convince so much as to warn people to keep an eye out for things, because they are reported. And also to try to become more convinced myself by hearing other peoples experience with this sort of thing. So little is known about the unconscious realms it seems.
I can't say with any certainty that I've had any premonitions. But really minor things, like just a simple conversation at school, or something of the likes. I have a dream about it, but I generally don't remember my dreams. But when it actually does happen, my mind just clicks, and it feels like it already happened, I guess a feeling of deja-vu even though I know that it was in a dream.
However, my rationalization of this is just that a generic event happened in my dream, and I fit it into the real life situation. But either way, that "click" that occurs in my mind is pretty surprising. It makes me lose focus in what I was doing for a minute or so, and I'm like, "Whoa..."
EDIT: As a matter of fact, something else been happening. The weather of a particular day has been triggering mental anchors of past days in my life. It's not really a premonition, but it is somewhat fitting to what I said above. I generally can't remember exactly when/why I felt they way I did in that past day with similar weather, but it is an interesting phenomenon. In short, similar weather of past distinct days make me feel in a similar manner as I did during those past days.
On March 14 2010 01:40 meteorskunk wrote: And also to try to become more convinced myself by hearing other peoples experience with this sort of thing.
thats the entire problem everyone dreams every night. you're looking for this pattern, so you're sure as hell gonna remember it whenever one of those dreams even has something superficial in common with reality, but you discard the thousands of other dreams that had nothing to do with anything.
It is a sensitive and complex topic indeed. I have always tried to keep an open mind about things like this, even if it sounded completely unlogical.
Last year, around June i think, I had a meeting very early in the morning so I had to go to bed earlier than I was used to. I was rolling over and over, trying to sleep, suddenly while I was thinking about some random subject, I started to think about a friend, a very old one. Hadn't seen him for more than 6 years. I can't remember much and I probably fell asleep while I was thinking about him and the times we had together. Next morning, while I was driving to the meeting my phone rang. It was him, asking me if I am free that afternoon. Later that day, he told me that he saw me in a dream..
Coincidence? Quite possibly. Something else? Wish I knew
On March 14 2010 01:43 Neak wrote: It is a sensitive and complex topic indeed. I have always tried to keep an open mind about things like this, even if it sounded completely unlogical.
Last year, around June i think, I had a meeting very early in the morning so I had to go to bed earlier than I was used to. I was rolling over and over, trying to sleep, suddenly while I was thinking about some random subject, I started to think about a friend, a very old one. Hadn't seen him for more than 6 years. I can't remember much and I probably fell asleep while I was thinking about him and the times we had together. Next morning, while I was driving to the meeting my phone rang. It was him, asking me if I am free that afternoon. Later that day, he told me that he saw me in a dream..
Coincidence? Quite possibly. Something else? Wish I knew
While I normally take the same opinion as IdrA, the sheer number of events similar to this makes me not think coincidence. I just can't think of what it is... Subconscious telepathy? Who knows... All I know is that we know almost nothing about the human brain.
On March 14 2010 01:40 meteorskunk wrote: And also to try to become more convinced myself by hearing other peoples experience with this sort of thing.
thats the entire problem everyone dreams every night. you're looking for this pattern, so you're sure as hell gonna remember it whenever one of those dreams even has something superficial in common with reality, but you discard the thousands of other dreams that had nothing to do with anything.
Isn't this how patterns are often found or understood? Of course I am less likely to ignore dreams without obvious connection to my everyday life, and ones that are less noteworthy. I do not discard my other dreams though, I attach subjective meaning to the symbols in my dreams when I can.
On March 14 2010 01:43 Neak wrote: It is a sensitive and complex topic indeed. I have always tried to keep an open mind about things like this, even if it sounded completely unlogical.
Last year, around June i think, I had a meeting very early in the morning so I had to go to bed earlier than I was used to. I was rolling over and over, trying to sleep, suddenly while I was thinking about some random subject, I started to think about a friend, a very old one. Hadn't seen him for more than 6 years. I can't remember much and I probably fell asleep while I was thinking about him and the times we had together. Next morning, while I was driving to the meeting my phone rang. It was him, asking me if I am free that afternoon. Later that day, he told me that he saw me in a dream..
Coincidence? Quite possibly. Something else? Wish I knew
Thats really cool, I love stuff like this as food for though anyways.
On March 14 2010 01:40 meteorskunk wrote: And also to try to become more convinced myself by hearing other peoples experience with this sort of thing.
thats the entire problem everyone dreams every night. you're looking for this pattern, so you're sure as hell gonna remember it whenever one of those dreams even has something superficial in common with reality, but you discard the thousands of other dreams that had nothing to do with anything.
Isn't this how patterns are often found or understood? Of course I am less likely to ignore dreams without obvious connection to my everyday life, and ones that are less noteworthy. I do not discard my other dreams though, I attach subjective meaning to the symbols in my dreams when I can.
again, thats the point. you're looking to find meaning and patterns so you find it, or make it. a couple of meaningful dreams amongst thousands is not a pattern, some of them are bound to kinda line up with something that actually happens. start keeping a log of every single dream you can remember, and then realize that most people dont remember a lot of their dreams, and figure out what percentage had some kind of predictive value.
You do realize Jung and the early psychologists were mainly full of shit right?
It's coincidence and conformation bias with bad probability, instead of thinking of the things that happened within your dreams, think about what didnt happen or how many ways they can be interpreted vaguely.
There are countless of coincidences we miss everyday of our lives, there is always something interesting we miss cause of our perspective and biases, reinforcing on beliefs to be true will make it seem more than it is.
I was having a very vivid premonition in my dreams today. It was an outline of 2 female forms intertwined, they were moving closer and closer until suddenly a huge storm broke out around us all. We sought shelter in the astral projection of a cave, that I conveniently created with my sheer willpower. The female forms now separated and were shaking each with delight. We comforted each other, knowing full well that this abode will not last. At last, at the very peak of sweet culmination of the dream, I ejaculated like never before and woke up.
And sure enough, I ejaculated in real life too! COINCIDENCE? I think NOT! Pure premonition.
The reason these examples seem so prevalent and significant is because no one really notes down the counter examples. It's simply selective memory and over interpretation of the random shit our minds get up to.
For example I had a vivid dream about running from danger and falling, over the next week absolutely nothing happened. Of course this has happened 100 times for every time you've experienced a "psychic phenomenon" but there's no reason for me to care enough to even blog it.
I guess the consensus is that there is no use pondering something if it can be explained by unremarkable things. Know that I believe in coincidence and skepticism, I'm just wondering what the advantage is of writing these things off as coincidence at all times? Isn't that a form of delusion?
On March 14 2010 02:53 meteorskunk wrote: I guess the consensus is that there is no use pondering something if it can be explained by unremarkable things. Know that I believe in coincidence and skepticism, I'm just wondering what the advantage is of writing these things off as coincidence at all times? Isn't that a form of delusion?
Why would it be delusional to assume coincidence but not to assume something supernatural?
On March 14 2010 02:34 druj wrote: There are countless of coincidences we miss everyday of our lives, there is always something interesting we miss cause of our perspective and biases, reinforcing on beliefs to be true will make it seem more than it is.
I think thats the Forer Effect?
Not to be superstitious or anything but I've had experiences like these before which are inexplicable, and occurred to me when my relatives or loved ones are suffering or passed away, involving in myself breaking down uncontrollably in the latter cases. It hasn't been exactly consistent so i cant say for sure though...
My great grandmother was a 'psychic' to the point where she read tea leaves, had a crystal ball, and the like. She had specific tea mugs (is that the term?) with designs on it to correlate what the tea leaves meant. She had an ability (which my grandfather believes 100% to be true) where she would be able to think about someone and then they would call her later that day. Even if they haven't talked in years.
She had a premonition of my great-grandfather's death. Where she would come out of the bedroom to find him reading the newspaper. However instead of seeing his body she saw a skeleton. She freaked out and ran to the back portch. There she saw the big oak tree cut down with a coffin on top of the stump.
The next week, he died in a steel mill accident and the neighbors cut down the tree for their plants in their garden to grow. And they put his coffin during the funeral on the stump.
If you're truly interested in 'psychic' phenomena and wish to further intrigue yourself, I'll provide a short summary of what I do. First, I work in intelligence for the U.S. Air Force. It was here, I was first introduced to "Remote Viewing". At the time, I knew it was just something the guys in our field dabbled with a bit. Sort of like a side hobby. However, they took it very serious. So, I gave in and learned a little more about it... I've met a few people who used to work in what the military called the STARGATE project. They gave me their opinions and life experiences dealing with RV. Now, after several years, I have come to my own personal opinion that the remote viewing that is being instructed by Major Ed Dames (regardless, I think he isn't the most talented, but nonetheless the best at instructing) is a more evolved, stable system of remote viewing. I personally have had an incredible amount of success through using RV. I use it for sports betting, finding lost items, and with my own RV group; we do projects such as trying to pinpoint the time of a next global catastrophe that will be on the news, fun stuff like that. Now, what is RV, you are probably wondering. If you don't want my brief explanation, you can go to http://www.learnrv.com/ thereafter, http://rvcommunity.net/ to practice and hone your skills, get direct feedback from the most professional team that exists. (Their B team guys have made national news worthy finds... A team makes about 100k each visit to vegas..) RV is well, the way I look at it these days. You learn how to direct your mind or your conscious mind towards a specific target whether it be anywhere in time or space. First, you may wonder what the difference between an RV student and a "natural psychic" or whatever you call them is.. the difference is RV uses a set process of collecting the information. We know how to identify what is good information and what is horseshit imagination etc. It's a filter more or less. In a team, we can be 100% accurate.. and I promise you, we are.. RV was a program developed by the military and it was used in every part of the government and all agencies you could possibly think of. Most would be astounded by the success it had.. but it means nothing until you have your own success. For me, my success was a result of locating my mother when she was kidnapped and lined up against a fence for people who were brutally executed. It was more than just a fun project or some random information gathering project. You can know anything. Literally. We do projects like stuff about the pyramids construction to verifying history, to even deciphering ancient languages that have not yet been decoded (one of my favorites). When I receive a little information about something above my clearance in the AF, I remote view it. That's exciting. If you have any questions, PM me. It could save a life.
I would recommend you reading Derren Brown's book "Tricks of the Mind" where he discusses bad thinking and that psychic power indeed does not exist. Also, watch Derren Brown The Messiah on youtube, to watch him get sponsored by many psychic related firms despite not having any psychic abilities, or mind reading capabilities. Psychic powers and mind reading most likely do not exist. Also, coincidences are common, and understanding probability is vital before making claims that alternative energies were responsible for phenomenal events.
I would recommend you reading Derren Brown's book "Tricks of the Mind" where he discusses bad thinking and that psychic power indeed does not exist. Also, watch Derren Brown The Messiah on youtube, to watch him get sponsored by many psychic related firms despite not having any psychic abilities, or mind reading capabilities. Psychic powers and mind reading most likely do not exist. Also, coincidences are common, and understanding probability is vital before making claims that alternative energies were responsible for phenomenal events.
Youtube remote viewing. Ed Dames, or Joseph McMoneagle. :-)
On March 14 2010 04:56 meteorskunk wrote: The compilation of anecdotes is nice, thanks TL.
Hopefully I can get around to reading "tricks of the mind" I'll definitely keep an eye out.
Remote viewing I've come across on wikipedia and the stories there seemed to point to a failure. I'm watching but I'm still skeptical.
To give you an idea on how real this stuff is. There is a prize awarded for anyone who can prove they can do anything supernatural, psychics, dowsing and what not. If you can prove it in a scientific test with controls, you get a million dollars.
On March 14 2010 02:09 samachking wrote: You do realize Jung and the early psychologists were mainly full of shit right?
It's coincidence and conformation bias with bad probability, instead of thinking of the things that happened within your dreams, think about what didnt happen or how many ways they can be interpreted vaguely.
On March 14 2010 02:53 meteorskunk wrote: I guess the consensus is that there is no use pondering something if it can be explained by unremarkable things. Know that I believe in coincidence and skepticism, I'm just wondering what the advantage is of writing these things off as coincidence at all times? Isn't that a form of delusion?
I think the whole problem here is you're actively looking to find something remarkable. It's not a matter of 'believing in coincidence', it's the complete lack of controlled experimental evidence or reproducibility of these psychic claims, as well as no hypothetical mechanisms of their action that fit into the framework of evidence-based science. Maybe look into some more recent neuroscience and cognitive psychology publications (from this decade) so you can better understand the field you're trying to fit psychic phenomena into.
Arggh that video is nice, but wrong in his dice analogy. Rolling an infinite number of die would not have a "very great probability" of writing the works of Shakespeare, it would happen an infinite number of times.
On March 14 2010 02:53 meteorskunk wrote: I guess the consensus is that there is no use pondering something if it can be explained by unremarkable things. Know that I believe in coincidence and skepticism, I'm just wondering what the advantage is of writing these things off as coincidence at all times? Isn't that a form of delusion?
I think the whole problem here is you're actively looking to find something remarkable. It's not a matter of 'believing in coincidence', it's the complete lack of controlled experimental evidence or reproducibility of these psychic claims, as well as no hypothetical mechanisms of their action that fit into the framework of evidence-based science. Maybe look into some more recent neuroscience and cognitive psychology publications (from this decade) so you can better understand the field you're trying to fit psychic phenomena into.
My search on this website found me "grey matter" which is a series of lectures at university of san diego, i watched all of them and im subscribing to scientific mind america and honestly they are doing really really well with MRI's and stuff, but this is still very far from intersecting into psychology.
As for coincidence, to be honest i don't really buy it, thats my personal philosophy though, I think every thing is connected and that the connections are soemtimes just hard to find.
I didn't go out looking for these things to happen I started out just as skeptical as the rest of them, but recreational drugs really set me out of the "operating system" that is culture and i realized that so many things are being filtered right out because of mere culture. I just wanted some interesting discussion here, and for the most part i got it.
I'm also thankful for the reality check, i admit I am getting a bit spacey, but who knows where it can lead.
On March 14 2010 04:56 meteorskunk wrote: The compilation of anecdotes is nice, thanks TL.
Hopefully I can get around to reading "tricks of the mind" I'll definitely keep an eye out.
Remote viewing I've come across on wikipedia and the stories there seemed to point to a failure. I'm watching but I'm still skeptical.
To give you an idea on how real this stuff is. There is a prize awarded for anyone who can prove they can do anything supernatural, psychics, dowsing and what not. If you can prove it in a scientific test with controls, you get a million dollars.
The challenge is not meant to be won. First, there was a group of cryptologists that did in fact solve a puzzle Randi said if it could be solved, then a million dollars would be awarded. The show was never aired and the couple never received compensation. His rules are extremely strict and not "anyone" can apply. You'll notice in his fine print for example, just anyone who has practiced any Tibetan monk practices is not allowed to participate. Not only this, but they do a prescreening test. You must be able to perform the feat to a point they will agree you deserve an opportunity to showcase it. This means if you are able to truly do it in the first show, chances are, you will not be on the actual "show" or be able to actually demonstrate it. If I find the time, I'll try to find it. There is a list of people who do amazing things whose applications were rejected. Some had the intentions of doing it just to donate the money to charity.
On March 14 2010 02:53 meteorskunk wrote: I guess the consensus is that there is no use pondering something if it can be explained by unremarkable things. Know that I believe in coincidence and skepticism, I'm just wondering what the advantage is of writing these things off as coincidence at all times? Isn't that a form of delusion?
if u can dream the future please sleep more and let me know whos gunna win the nba finals so i can bet my bankroll please
On March 14 2010 08:00 seppolevne wrote: Arggh that video is nice, but wrong in his dice analogy. Rolling an infinite number of die would not have a "very great probability" of writing the works of Shakespeare, it would happen an infinite number of times.
No, there's a non-zero (but very close to zero) probability of an infinite number of rolls not writing the works of Shakespeare hence there is a "very great probability" of it happening once or more.
On March 14 2010 08:54 YellowEmperor wrote:The challenge is not meant to be won. First, there was a group of cryptologists that did in fact solve a puzzle Randi said if it could be solved, then a million dollars would be awarded. The show was never aired and the couple never received compensation.
If Blaze has supernatural talents, we’ll have to view these Amazing Feats in a whole new light. In truth, though, this was just another puzzle. It turns out that Randi published an enciphered clue to the contents of the lock box in his newsletter, to provide evidence later that he hadn’t switched the mystery item with something else just to foil the psychics. The clue was this:
The best thing about the internet is that it makes fact-checking so easy. It's just too bad most people don't actually do it.
To OP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc This explains all the incidents that you believe are more than mere coincidences. You can't reproduce these events consistently in a controlled environment so stop worrying about it.
EPT
