The "pregnant man" article in the general forum has seen a lot of misconceptions about transgender people and what gender is anyway. I like to think I know about these things and I will be happy to offer my knowledge and/or opinions in response to any serious questions you have.
Sex is determined by physical characteristics such as what reproductive organs you have, what chromosomes, what hormones, etc.
Gender is a combination of everything that's not physical. Most people's gender is the same as their sex so it's hard to understand this distinction. Imagine this wildly unlikely scenario. One night, you are kidnapped and subjected to surgery that replaces all your reproductive organs and secondary sex characteristics with those of the opposite sex. When you wake up, you are effectively of the other sex.
What has changed about you and what hasn't? Your sex has changed, but your gender has not changed. Your brain and thus your perception of self, all of your memories, your experiences, and your beliefs are all intact. These are some of the factors in what is called "gender".
A transgender person is someone whose sex doesn't match their gender. In the scenario above where you got all your sex organs replaced with those of the opposite sex, then you would be a transgender person.
Since most transgender people don't get kidnapped and operated on, they don't have the benefit of memories of the body that corresponds to their gender. People aren't usually taught that their gender can be different from their sex, so they simply have this strange feeling that their body is not the right one.
It's much the same feeling you would probably have if your body was suddenly changed to one of the opposite sex. You might feel that your natural state was that of a man/woman, and the way your body looked after the surgery did not reflect the real you. People might start to treat you as something that made no sense to you, because they would determine your gender role by your appearance. You might not meet the expectations people have of your new sex, the way you "should" walk, talk, relate, behave, express emotion, etc. and you'd probably wish to have your own body back.
There are a lot of reasons why some people end up with mismatched gender and sex. Sometimes it's due to chromosome abnormalities such as X or XXY. Sometimes it's due to a change in levels of sex hormones between when a baby's body forms and when its brain forms. Also, some babies are born with intermediate or deformed reproductive organs, and doctors will often "correct" the deformity whichever way is easier. It's hard to say of a particular transgender person how they got to be that way.
The only "cure" for someone who feels that they're in the wrong body is to change their body. The "transition" to the opposite sex involves regular hormone treatments (testosterone/estrogen) and genital surgery. It takes a few years to complete the process, but the outcome is very successful (especially for male to female transition). although the appearance is entirely like the desired sex, they may still retain some internal organs of the birth sex. The transman in the article still has his uterus, so he can get pregnant even though he looks physically male.
On January 28 2010 13:01 XinRan wrote: I don't understand how you define "male mind" and how you know you have a male mind. What is compelling that convinces you that you are the wrong sex?
It's very hard to actually define what a male or female mind is, so I'm not sure I can give you a good definition. For me, it's part social experience, part testing, and part unexplainable feeling... When I was a child I used to think I was a defective/brain damaged girl because I couldn't fit in with other girls. I tried my best to fake being like a girl, but I usually failed and the other girls treated me as an outsider. People would buy me girls toys but I didn't know what to do with them, so I secretly played with Hot Wheels XD
When the little boys/girls stopped believing that the others had cooties I found that I fit in and felt comfortable with boys. Once I started to feel like I belonged with boys I felt this deep need and longing to have my body changed so I could be just like the other boys. Of course I was still a kid so legally I couldn't make that choice...after a while this really intense feeling stopped being so important. I feel okay with being a sort of hybrid right now. But a few years ago I went to a gender specialist and took this incredibly long test that measured my masculinity/femininity, and I was equal in the masculine traits to a typical guy. The therapist approved me for transition but I decided I wouldn't do it until this strong feeling came back and it never did....
I was kind of afraid to answer this question because it seems weird of me to choose not to transition, and I can't really explain that well....
On January 28 2010 13:14 silencefc wrote: What exactly makes a mind male/female? I wouldn't think merely topics of interest would define that.
It's hard to say because our language doesn't really have words for what makes a mind male or female. There are plenty of examples of gender based differences in the mind (here's one), but we just don't know very much of what makes a mind male or female. I'll look for further things to add to this answer~
You said you plan on sticking with a female body, but do you dress and present yourself in a masculine way?
I've tried to present as a male, but I can't pass because I am only 5 feet tall and look very feminine. Men's clothes are much too big to fit me. So right now I'm wearing girl's clothes.
Lots of people will say I'm a girl because I look like one, but I don't mind what people call me since I've been through a lot of evaluations that confirm my identity. I don't really expect that most people would believe I am what I say I am no matter what I look like.
On January 28 2010 13:24 CaucasianAsian wrote: What do your friends/family think of the situation?
Is it difficult to get into a relationship (dating-wise) when you express how u feel like your not in your 'real' body?
I have lost a few friends but mostly people support me. My family was really upset when I came out to them but they say that they will always love me no matter what! I'm very lucky having my family stand by me, sometimes parents will blame their child for being transgender or blame themselves for producing a kid with a birth defect.
Usually I feel uncomfortable explaining everything face to face, because I'm always afraid that someone would attack me just for being me. So most of the people I meet casually have no idea that I am trans. I tend to attract a lot of guys who find they feel comfortable talking to me and say I'm not crazy/confusing/different like most girls, but if I tell them I'm male gendered they freak out and start thinking they are gay. It's pretty hard to find someone who will love both my body and my mind, even if they are bi, it's just too much of a mind fuck for them. I have dated a few straight boys who would describe me as "a girl who thinks like a guy" which I figure is pretty much true.
As a friend of several transgender people I'm very sad to see the insults getting thrown around in the original post. These people got stuck in a terrible situation and their only options were to transition or spend their life acting like a different person. They deserve your sympathy and respect!
Please feel free to post questions here (even stupid ones).
what other qualifications do you have besides having transgender friends? Not knocking you, just curious. Can you talk a bit more about interacting with them?
On January 28 2010 12:30 zulu_nation8 wrote: what other qualifications do you have besides having transgender friends? Not knocking you, just curious. Can you talk a bit more about interacting with them?
I have a FtM friend who is starting transition soon. I'm also a member of a few trans support groups and have done many years of research on the topic.... I apologize for not supplying very much information. I'll share more about my identity if I don't get too much crap in this thread.
On January 28 2010 12:30 citi.zen wrote: Where did you get the ZiNC tag?
Just made it up. It stands for Zinc is Not (a) Clan (yeah, that's about as clever as I get).
On January 28 2010 12:35 David Mudkips wrote: Be honest, how old are you?
On January 28 2010 12:44 CommanderFluffy wrote: Are you a transgender?
On January 28 2010 12:45 SanguineToss wrote: Be honest are u a man or a woman
This seems to be very important to people so i'll answer honestly. I have a female body (born with it, plan to keep it that way) and a male mind.
believe it or not that just blew my mind
What gender mind got blown?
I had a transgender friend in college.
He lived across the hall from me freshman year and was a staunch conservative.
By junior year he had come out. By the start of senior year he was wearing a bra with padding in it, affecting a higher voice, and wearing tight clothing with long hair. By the end of senior year she preferred female pronouns.
She still was really into cars and guns though. That never changed.
On January 28 2010 12:44 CommanderFluffy wrote: Are you a transgender?
On January 28 2010 12:45 SanguineToss wrote: Be honest are u a man or a woman
This seems to be very important to people so i'll answer honestly. I have a female body (born with it, plan to keep it that way) and a male mind.
believe it or not that just blew my mind
Well it's very weird so that's a normal reaction I think that most people would want to transition to a male body in that case, but I can't afford it and eventually I've become kind of attached to being partly guy partly girl.
On January 28 2010 12:55 sassy wrote: scy detected
If only I knew what that was, maybe I could explain why you detected it
On January 28 2010 12:44 CommanderFluffy wrote: Are you a transgender?
On January 28 2010 12:45 SanguineToss wrote: Be honest are u a man or a woman
This seems to be very important to people so i'll answer honestly. I have a female body (born with it, plan to keep it that way) and a male mind.
believe it or not that just blew my mind
Well it's very weird so that's a normal reaction I think that most people would want to transition to a male body in that case, but I can't afford it and eventually I've become kind of attached to being partly guy partly girl.
Are you attracted to women? Why is it you feel that you're mind is "male"? What does that even mean? That you have a masculine mind (more geared towards, sports, games, science, etc.?) or something else?
On January 28 2010 12:52 [ZiNC]Ling wrote: This seems to be very important to people so i'll answer honestly. I have a female body (born with it, plan to keep it that way) and a male mind.
A male mind? Um...so you're a lesbian who enjoys sports and cars?
What's the difference between someone who's gay and a transgender under your definition?
On January 28 2010 13:14 xDark.Carnivalx wrote: sexual orientation and gender identity are different.
It seems like sexual orientation would be a subset of gender identity...well I'm just speculating here. If OP is of a female "sex" yet a male "gender", it would seem that he/she would at least qualify as a lesbian? I would think gender identity would be inclusive of what sex you are attracted to. Meh..who the hell knows?
I knew this girl in high school, who cut her hair so it looked like a boys. She attempted to speak in a 'deep' voice (you know that voice that girls use when they are pretending to sound like a guy) and wore guy's clothings etc... She would hit on girls, etc...
Well, one day an acquantance of mine came up to me, and said "Dude I think she likes me" I asked the usual, "who?" because I thought this girl was a guy for 4 years. But apparently she was straight physically, but since she believed she was supposed to be a boy, she considered herself gay. Aint that a mind fuck.
Well, to the OP:
What do your friends/family think of the situation?
Is it difficult to get into a relationship (dating-wise) when you express how u feel like your not in your 'real' body?
On January 28 2010 13:32 keepITup wrote: I've never heard gender be defined that way, and honestly I think it's just a deeply thought out excuse/philosophy to defend being trans-gender.
Not that I'm against transgenders or anything.
What have you heard as definitions for gender? I ask because the OP's concept of it is pretty widely accepted. In fact, I haven't heard any radically differing definitions for the word (outside people misusing it, of course).
On January 28 2010 12:44 CommanderFluffy wrote: Are you a transgender?
On January 28 2010 12:45 SanguineToss wrote: Be honest are u a man or a woman
This seems to be very important to people so i'll answer honestly. I have a female body (born with it, plan to keep it that way) and a male mind.
believe it or not that just blew my mind
Well it's very weird so that's a normal reaction I think that most people would want to transition to a male body in that case, but I can't afford it and eventually I've become kind of attached to being partly guy partly girl.
On January 28 2010 12:55 sassy wrote: scy detected
If only I knew what that was, maybe I could explain why you detected it
ScY is a starcraft player known to be a heshe
Ahh okay. Am I also a "heshe" or is that a "shehe"? I have no idea with this terminology. XD
On January 28 2010 12:52 [ZiNC]Ling wrote: This seems to be very important to people so i'll answer honestly. I have a female body (born with it, plan to keep it that way) and a male mind.
A male mind? Um...so you're a lesbian who enjoys sports and cars?
What's the difference between someone who's gay and a transgender under your definition?
Gender is about who you are, sexual orientation is about who you fuck. It's confusing because it's hard to tell whether gay/lesbian/straight refer to someone's gender vs the gender of people they are attracted to, or their sex vs the sex they are attracted to, or something else entirely. I'm bi so I don't have to try to explain whether I'm gay or straight. XD
thopol and xDark.Carnivalx, thanks for posting some good answers<3 The questions are coming in faster than I can reply to them.
On January 28 2010 13:09 Warrior Madness wrote: masculine mind (more geared towards, sports, games, science, etc.?)
Think about how crazy that is. You're defining gender by interest.
"The World Health Organization (WHO), for example, uses "gender" to refer to "the socially constructed roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women"
On January 28 2010 13:09 Warrior Madness wrote: masculine mind (more geared towards, sports, games, science, etc.?)
Think about how crazy that is. You're defining gender by interest.
"The World Health Organization (WHO), for example, uses "gender" to refer to "the socially constructed roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women"
Liking sports or science, while it may contribute, does not constitute a social role. I think that definition is not referring to any of its components, but rather all of them. I might be wrong about that though.
On January 28 2010 13:09 Warrior Madness wrote: masculine mind (more geared towards, sports, games, science, etc.?)
Think about how crazy that is. You're defining gender by interest.
"The World Health Organization (WHO), for example, uses "gender" to refer to "the socially constructed roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women"
Liking sports or science, while it may contribute, does not constitute a social role. I think that definition is not referring to any of its components, but rather all of them. I might be wrong about that though.
On January 28 2010 13:32 keepITup wrote: I've never heard gender be defined that way, and honestly I think it's just a deeply thought out excuse/philosophy to defend being trans-gender.
Not that I'm against transgenders or anything.
What have you heard as definitions for gender? I ask because the OP's concept of it is pretty widely accepted. In fact, I haven't heard any radically differing definitions for the word (outside people misusing it, of course).
They have always been interchangeable terms for me. Most dictionaries don't go that in-depth.
On January 28 2010 13:09 Warrior Madness wrote: masculine mind (more geared towards, sports, games, science, etc.?)
Think about how crazy that is. You're defining gender by interest.
"The World Health Organization (WHO), for example, uses "gender" to refer to "the socially constructed roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women"
Liking sports or science, while it may contribute, does not constitute a social role. I think that definition is not referring to any of its components, but rather all of them. I might be wrong about that though.
I should have been clearer with my examples.
I think I agree with the WHO definition, and I'd say that interests are a very small part of gender roles. For example, people would think it's normal for a guy to like Starcraft, but it's weird for a girl to like Starcraft. Playing Starcraft doesn't *make* me a guy though. It's just one of many tiny statistical indications.
On January 28 2010 14:00 SanguineToss wrote: Wait so since ur a woman but u have a male mind which means u like women. Does this mean ur still technically a virgin cause u dont ...men
I'm bi, so I've dated both men and women, but yes I'm a virgin
ling, there are plenty of short guys, and male hormones are actually more effective than female hormones as far as passability is concerned. Male hormones will grow an adam's apple, deepen your voice, let you grow facial/body hair, develop male type muscle/fat distribution. Other than being short, you would almost certainly be very passable if you decided to do it.
That said, there are two types of surgery involved. Top surgery is removal of the breast tissue and nipple reatachement. This is generally very realistic but takes a while to heal. Bottom surgery just isnt as advanced as it is for mtf. I haven't seen any pictures, but I've heard from many ftm that they are so unsatisfied with what the surgery would give them that they choose not to.
In any case, you are awesome. Even if you never transition (not everyone does) or take hormones (not everyone does) or surgery (not everyone does) you can still express yourself however makes you feel best. If thats wearing male clothes in public, at home alone on the weekends, unisex clothes, no makeup, whatever; the right path for you is whichever one will make you the most happy.
Unfortunately finding which path will make you happy is a very scary things. Be brave and trust yourself. Above all, you are worth it. Life is short, so if you want to do it go for it. If you are uncertain, do everything you can do that's reversible and see how you feel about it. How do you feel when you wear male clothes? How do you feel when you fake a male voice? Of course it will feel silly in the beginning, but it might generate other feelings as well.
On January 28 2010 13:01 XinRan wrote: I don't understand how you define "male mind" and how you know you have a male mind. What is compelling that convinces you that you are the wrong sex?
In addition to all the psychological things we associate with male and female minds (think stereotypes and social constructs) there are actual physical (neurological) differences in male and female brains. This is currently believed to be a result of testosterone imprinting (brain masculinization) in the womb. Males get the testosterone imprinting which rewires their brain, females do not. Interestingly, after that crucial period, all the hormones in the world wont rewire the brain. If you expose a ftm to a whole load of estrogen, the male wiring will remain.
You can see a study showing a possible cause of mtf (an abnormal genetic sequence prevents testosterone imprinting)
In the largest ever genetic study of male to female transsexuals Australian researchers have found a significant genetic link between gender identity and a gene involved in testosterone action.
From an early age people develop an inner sense of being male or female – their gender identity. Transsexuals however, identify with a physical sex opposite to their perceived biological sex.
DNA samples were collected from 112 male to female transsexuals and researchers compared genetic differences with non transsexuals. The results are published in the high impact journal Biological Psychiatry.
The researchers discovered that male to female transsexuals were more likely to have a longer version of a gene which is known to modify the action of the sex hormone testosterone.
"We think that these genetic differences might reduce testosterone action and under masculinise the brain during foetal development." said researcher Lauren Hare.
Another study showing the similarity of female and mtf minds and the similarity of gay and straight male minds (with the two groups being different):
Male-to-Female Transsexuals Have Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus Transsexuals experience themselves as being of the opposite sex, despite having the biological characteristics of one sex....Therefore, we determined in 42 subjects the number of somatostatin-expressing neurons in the BSTc in relation to sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, and past or present hormonal status. Regardless of sexual orientation, men had almost twice as many somatostatin neurons as women (P < 0.006). The number of neurons in the BSTc of male-to-female transsexuals was similar to that of the females (P = 0.83). In contrast, the neuron number of a female-to-male transsexual was found to be in the male range. Hormone treatment or sex hormone level variations in adulthood did not seem to have influenced BSTc neuron numbers. The present findings of somatostatin neuronal sex differences in the BSTc and its sex reversal in the transsexual brain clearly support the paradigm that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain and genitals may go into opposite directions and point to a neurobiological basis of gender identity disorder.
Thanks for the responses, they're pretty mind-opening.
I tend to attract a lot of guys who find they feel comfortable talking to me and say I'm not crazy/confusing/different like most girls, but if I tell them I'm male gendered they freak out and start thinking they are gay.
Are you attracted to masculine women and/or feminine men? Or feminine women and/or masculine men?
Were you ever encouraged to be feminine? Was there ever a point where you dressed/acted like a "pretty" girl? Did you get any male attention? How were you generally treated at/during the time you "changed" by others (both men and women)? What age was this?
Do you think there is any potential for you to "go strait" if you met the right guy? Seeing as you are still a virgin...what is the likelihood you "made a mistake"?
What are the top three or four key things that made you realize you were male gendered?
I'm trying to understand the psychology of it at an intuitive level. Definitions don't help me very much.
On January 28 2010 13:09 Warrior Madness wrote: masculine mind (more geared towards, sports, games, science, etc.?)
Think about how crazy that is. You're defining gender by interest.
the relationship is actually very interesting. The males liking sports/games/science etc is a social construct. Yet precisely because these social constructs say "males like X" means that people with a masucline brain will tend to follow those constructs and like X. Which is not to say that every ftm likes cars, explosions, guns, boobs etc.
For example, pink (by current convention) is a female color. Precisely because it is, mtf tend to gravitate towards it.
Some social constructs might have a biological basis (some studies have shown women are hardwired to prefer softer colours/tones than men), but the actual association is fairly complex, and the line between the two isnt always clear.
On January 28 2010 14:40 Ilikestarcraft wrote: i played with dolls and wore dresses when i was younger And my sister was the tomboy who never wore skirts or dresses and played sports.
hahaha. Don't worry about it. The symptoms of transgender are often very severe and often come with a whole host of psychological problems generated by it.
Question it, but don't worry about it. If you dont really really want to be a girl right now, chances are you won't wake up tomorrow and suddenly want to be one.
fwiw, playing with dolls, even putting on girls clothes (once or occasionally) is a normal thing for males of all sexual orientations. Wearing a dress once won't make you transgendered. Even prefering to wear girls clothes wont necessarily make you transgendered.
I know guys worry just as much about being transgender without realizing it as they do about that cute girl in the bar being transgendered. You don't have to worry about either one.
On January 28 2010 14:00 SanguineToss wrote: Wait so since ur a woman but u have a male mind which means u like women. Does this mean ur still technically a virgin cause u dont ...men
I'm bi, so I've dated both men and women, but yes I'm a virgin
not to shit all over this thread, or be an ass, BUT if you're a virgin you have no idea whether you are truly bi curious or actually bi sexual in it's entirety.
what i mean is, my brother for example he is gay, but he has sex with women every once in a while and enjoys it, because well every guy likes getting his ... anyways the point is he doesn't love women in the romantic sense, he eventually starts treating the ones that he builds relationships with after the countless intimacies as like sisters ...who he has sex with. what i mean by that is he loves them like you love a friend or a brother, not how you love a lover.
On January 28 2010 14:53 Etherone wrote: not to shit all over this thread, or be an ass, BUT if you're a virgin you have no idea whether you are truly bi curious or actually bi sexual in it's entirety.
what i mean is, my brother for example he is gay, but he has sex with women every once in a while and enjoys it, because well every guy likes getting his ... anyways the point is he doesn't love women in the romantic sense, he eventually starts treating the ones that he builds relationships with after the countless intimacies as like sisters ...who he has sex with. what i mean by that is he loves them like you love a friend or a brother, not how you love a lover.
does this make any sense to anyone else?
no but it sounds like hes got a good thing going on to me.
I saw the special on dateline awhile back. there was a young boy who had the mind of a girl. It was pretty sad cause the child was already very depressed at such a young age, even at one point saying it'd be better if she didnt exist. Its been years now and Im very curious about where that life has landed.
I bet this is not possible- but do you have a picture of yourself? I for one am curious, becuase i have heard that there are in fact many people who are trans gendered. I guess the statistic goes like this: You see transgendered people, as often as you see red heads. (for me this struck me as actually quite common. Because i had once thought that trans gender was really really rare.)
But more seriously- to try and help you with what makes a male brain and female brain different: I am pretty sure that the corpus collosum (the structure inside of the brain that connects the left and right hemispheres) is far thicker in females than in males. Don't know if that helps at all but meh
On January 28 2010 15:01 stack wrote: I saw the special on dateline awhile back. there was a young boy who had the mind of a girl. It was pretty sad cause the child was already very depressed at such a young age, even at one point saying it'd be better if she didnt exist. Its been years now and Im very curious about where that life has landed.
The definition of a male or female mind seems to be entirely based what is socialy acceptable for that gender. Guys like: Cars, gaming, guns, sports etc. Girls like: Shopping, dessing up, attention etc.
Gender has nothing to do with the way you think..
Also this whole gender differences with the brain seems to be touching slightly upon whether or not your genes affect the way that you act.
Yeah my opinion on this topic is basically that you can't tell people not to be disgusted by something like this.
I accept the fact that these situations exist. I accept the possibility that they are natural and genetic, in fact I lean towards that idea. I don't hate people who lead lives like this.
But it will always disgust me when thinking about it -- and that's what the majority of people who can remain anonymous over the internet will say on a forum about the subject --- "ewww."
If we were all in person and someone said they were transsexual, I'd assume the majority of people would try to hide their feelings out of respect.
you can't expect people to understand something like this. it's been stated before that we "have no idea what it feels like", and then we are ordered to accept it.
i think most good people really do hope that no matter who you are that you have the same rights as others (gay marriage for example) -- but otherwise this is a private matter that people should keep to themselves -- and when it's talked about in detail people get grossed out.
On January 28 2010 14:00 SanguineToss wrote: Wait so since ur a woman but u have a male mind which means u like women. Does this mean ur still technically a virgin cause u dont ...men
I'm bi, so I've dated both men and women, but yes I'm a virgin
not to shit all over this thread, or be an ass, BUT if you're a virgin you have no idea whether you are truly bi curious or actually bi sexual in it's entirety.
what i mean is, my brother for example he is gay, but he has sex with women every once in a while and enjoys it, because well every guy likes getting his ... anyways the point is he doesn't love women in the romantic sense, he eventually starts treating the ones that he builds relationships with after the countless intimacies as like sisters ...who he has sex with. what i mean by that is he loves them like you love a friend or a brother, not how you love a lover.
does this make any sense to anyone else?
Sorry, I thought of the traditional sense of the word "virgin" meaning hasn't had intercourse/has hymen intact. Of course I can tell if I am bisexual by my physical and emotional reactions to getting up close and personal with men and women
On January 28 2010 14:41 fight_or_flight wrote: Are you a "feminine" guy or a "manly" guy?
Hmm, I guess I'm more of a feminine guy. It might be that my feminine traits come from being raised female, so I can't tell if I have some innate feminine traits or not. If i had been born a guy, maybe I would be manly due to being treated so differently?
Are you attracted to masculine women and/or feminine men? Or feminine women and/or masculine men?
I tend to be attracted to any kind of women and feminine men. Stork no, Bisu yes. Tossgirl also yes.
Were you ever encouraged to be feminine? Was there ever a point where you dressed/acted like a "pretty" girl? Did you get any male attention?
A lot of girls I knew when I was younger wanted me to join their "group" and act more feminine, dress girly, put on makeup, etc. but I thought it was stupid. My parents would ask me if I wanted to dress more girly but "no" was always ok with them. I think they were just happy that I didn't go out and spend all their money on shoes XD. I tended to get treated as a weirdo but I got plenty of flattering and not so flattering attention from some nerdy guys.
Ironically now that I have realized that I can be both female sexed and male gendered, I feel much more comfortable looking feminine. When I dress girly I feel it's weird to be looking at a girl in the mirror, but she is a pretty girl IMO ^^ I feel kind of like it's halloween, every day. It's strange but also fun.
How were you generally treated at/during the time you "changed" by others (both men and women)? What age was this?
When I tried to dress/act as a guy mostly people just though that I was a very confused girl. A few times, I was read as a pre-pubescent boy due to my shortness and high voice. I didn't get a lot of respect since people thought I was either crazy or 12 years old (I was actually 18).
Do you think there is any potential for you to "go strait" if you met the right guy? Seeing as you are still a virgin...
I am dating a straight guy right now, he likes the female body but he also finds me easier to relate to than the typical female mind. So it's most likely that I will stay with him since I feel so lucky to have found someone who loves me as I am.
what is the likelihood you "made a mistake"?
I think a lot about whether I'm really right about myself overall. I wonder how I can be a functional person with mismatched mind and body, and whether I made a mistake in judging my mind, or a mistake in choosing to keep my body as it is. But I am happy the way I am, as a person who looks and talks like a girl, but doesn't think like a girl. I guess what I'm trying to say is does it matter whether I have a male brain, as long as I'm happy and my family/friends are happy with me? Isn't what makes me happy the best thing to do?
What are the top three or four key things that made you realize you were male gendered?
Hmm, here are a few things: ~girls always seemed to have something in common with each other that I never had. I felt excluded from their groups and I felt like I never figured out how to be a girl ~people I know say that it's clear from the way I act that I am really a guy. ~my mind functions like the male mind, getting this tested was a big thing for me since I got assured that I wasn't simply crazy.
On January 28 2010 15:04 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote: The definition of a male or female mind seems to be entirely based what is socialy acceptable for that gender. Guys like: Cars, gaming, guns, sports etc. Girls like: Shopping, dessing up, attention etc.
Gender has nothing to do with the way you think..
Also this whole gender differences with the brain seems to be touching slightly upon whether or not your genes affect the way that you act.
ANIMAL experiments and observations in human brains have convincingly shown that sexual differentiation not only concerns the genitalia but also the brain (1, 2). The strongly connected and sexually differentiated hypothalamus, septum, bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BST), and amygdala are implicated in sexually dimorphic patterns of reproductive and nonreproductive behaviors (2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18).
Gender identity (i.e. the feeling to be male or to be female) is an important trait of a subject. Transsexuals experience themselves as being of the opposite sex, despite having the biological characteristics of one sex (19, 20, 21).
male or female mind is a physical thing. That physical difference motivates male or female behavior whether biologically (through direct behaviors as a result of this wiring) or indirectly (as in the desire to fulfill male/female social constructs)
Gender has EVERYTHING to do with the way you think, whether you realize it or not. Think of it this way. The most severe schizophrenic case can tell you their gender even if they can tell you nothing else. Someone with total amnesia instinctively knows their gender even if they've forgotten everything about their life. Gender is a very basic, integral concept hardwired into the brain. Our social constructs are merely placed on top of that wiring as a way for us to communicate our gender.
As to genes affecting the way you act, well they do.
On January 28 2010 12:44 CommanderFluffy wrote: Are you a transgender?
On January 28 2010 12:45 SanguineToss wrote: Be honest are u a man or a woman
This seems to be very important to people so i'll answer honestly. I have a female body (born with it, plan to keep it that way) and a male mind.
believe it or not that just blew my mind
Well it's very weird so that's a normal reaction I think that most people would want to transition to a male body in that case, but I can't afford it and eventually I've become kind of attached to being partly guy partly girl.
On January 28 2010 12:55 sassy wrote: scy detected
If only I knew what that was, maybe I could explain why you detected it
ScY is a starcraft player known to be a heshe
Ahh okay. Am I also a "heshe" or is that a "shehe"? I have no idea with this terminology. XD
On January 28 2010 12:52 [ZiNC]Ling wrote: This seems to be very important to people so i'll answer honestly. I have a female body (born with it, plan to keep it that way) and a male mind.
A male mind? Um...so you're a lesbian who enjoys sports and cars?
What's the difference between someone who's gay and a transgender under your definition?
Gender is about who you are, sexual orientation is about who you fuck. It's confusing because it's hard to tell whether gay/lesbian/straight refer to someone's gender vs the gender of people they are attracted to, or their sex vs the sex they are attracted to, or something else entirely. I'm bi so I don't have to try to explain whether I'm gay or straight. XD
thopol and xDark.Carnivalx, thanks for posting some good answers<3 The questions are coming in faster than I can reply to them.
So in your case is it like a "I want to fuck girls" type of thing or ???
On January 28 2010 13:01 XinRan wrote: I don't understand how you define "male mind" and how you know you have a male mind. What is compelling that convinces you that you are the wrong sex?
In addition to all the psychological things we associate with male and female minds (think stereotypes and social constructs) there are actual physical (neurological) differences in male and female brains. This is currently believed to be a result of testosterone imprinting (brain masculinization) in the womb. Males get the testosterone imprinting which rewires their brain, females do not. Interestingly, after that crucial period, all the hormones in the world wont rewire the brain. If you expose a ftm to a whole load of estrogen, the male wiring will remain.
You can see a study showing a possible cause of mtf (an abnormal genetic sequence prevents testosterone imprinting)
In the largest ever genetic study of male to female transsexuals Australian researchers have found a significant genetic link between gender identity and a gene involved in testosterone action.
From an early age people develop an inner sense of being male or female – their gender identity. Transsexuals however, identify with a physical sex opposite to their perceived biological sex.
DNA samples were collected from 112 male to female transsexuals and researchers compared genetic differences with non transsexuals. The results are published in the high impact journal Biological Psychiatry.
The researchers discovered that male to female transsexuals were more likely to have a longer version of a gene which is known to modify the action of the sex hormone testosterone.
"We think that these genetic differences might reduce testosterone action and under masculinise the brain during foetal development." said researcher Lauren Hare.
Another study showing the similarity of female and mtf minds and the similarity of gay and straight male minds (with the two groups being different):
Male-to-Female Transsexuals Have Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus Transsexuals experience themselves as being of the opposite sex, despite having the biological characteristics of one sex....Therefore, we determined in 42 subjects the number of somatostatin-expressing neurons in the BSTc in relation to sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, and past or present hormonal status. Regardless of sexual orientation, men had almost twice as many somatostatin neurons as women (P < 0.006). The number of neurons in the BSTc of male-to-female transsexuals was similar to that of the females (P = 0.83). In contrast, the neuron number of a female-to-male transsexual was found to be in the male range. Hormone treatment or sex hormone level variations in adulthood did not seem to have influenced BSTc neuron numbers. The present findings of somatostatin neuronal sex differences in the BSTc and its sex reversal in the transsexual brain clearly support the paradigm that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain and genitals may go into opposite directions and point to a neurobiological basis of gender identity disorder.
Thanks so much for clearing this up for me. Ideas in my culture about gender, or rather all cultures around the world, are so closely related to sex and what you call "social constructs" that transgender is a very difficult condition to understand. I wonder if LGBT is a recent phenomenon or something that has been present since the beginning. Considering historical taboos, perhaps we will never know.
I remember hearing of a female who changer her identity and lived as a man in the early 1800's. Near the end of his life he was caught and forced to wear female clothes for the rest of his life.
Native American cultures often had the concept of 'two-spirit', similar to transgendered. Going from memory, but they were believed to have the spirit of an ancestor of the opposite sex inside them. Far from being ridiculed, they were valued.
Similar things exist in early Indian and Asian cultures throughout history. Homosexuality/Transgenderism isnt a new development, its just the rights movement for them is.
Actually a lot of cultures treated transgendered individuals with more respect than western culture. A lot of the current distaste can be related to the spread of western/christian ideals.
On January 28 2010 15:05 keepITup wrote: Yeah my opinion on this topic is basically that you can't tell people not to be disgusted by something like this.
I accept the fact that these situations exist. I accept the possibility that they are natural and genetic, in fact I lean towards that idea. I don't hate people who lead lives like this.
But it will always disgust me when thinking about it -- and that's what the majority of people who can remain anonymous over the internet will say on a forum about the subject --- "ewww."
If we were all in person and someone said they were transsexual, I'd assume the majority of people would try to hide their feelings out of respect.
you can't expect people to understand something like this. it's been stated before that we "have no idea what it feels like", and then we are ordered to accept it.
i think most good people really do hope that no matter who you are that you have the same rights as others (gay marriage for example) -- but otherwise this is a private matter that people should keep to themselves -- and when it's talked about in detail people get grossed out.
I don't blame you for feeling disgusted, even though I hope that you wouldn't feel disgust when you think of me, you handle it in an admirable way. Thanks for your acceptance and go read something less disgusting!
I have a lot of respect for someone who is willing to say "fuck it" to societal norms and do whatever it takes to realize who they are inside. It takes a lot of courage and self-awareness to go through with a decision to make a gender switch.
However, making that decision is something you should really be careful with. If you end up regretting it, it's gonna be a big regret.
What are the top three or four key things that made you realize you were male gendered?
Hmm, here are a few things: ~girls always seemed to have something in common with each other that I never had. I felt excluded from their groups and I felt like I never figured out how to be a girl ~people I know say that it's clear from the way I act that I am really a guy. ~my mind functions like the male mind, getting this tested was a big thing for me since I got assured that I wasn't simply crazy.
These don't really seem like the type of indicators I was looking for. As far as the first one, there are a lot of girls who don't like other girls for seemingly no reason. My sister is always complaining that girls just don't seem to like her at school. No one can understand how or why girls do what they do (not even girls) so not getting invited to go shopping or w/e doesn't seem like a strong indicator of anything. I mean if you are too attractive, you will be an outcast, if you are too ugly, too smart, too dumb, the list is potentially endless here. Even myself, I'm kind of a loner....I guess I don't really feel rejected by guys, but not accepted either.
The last two don't really seem like reasons. Why do they say its "clear" you act/think like a guy? Is it just because you are more comfortable talking to guys? You have better conversations and can spend an hour talking to them, whereas after 10 minutes with a girl it kind of fizzles out to awkward pauses? I wouldn't necessarily say that is a very strong indicator either. Just because you don't share common interests with females doesn't necessarily mean anything.
For example, I have two female russian friends. They are strait, but get along much better with men than women, especially american women. They actually don't get along with american women very well. They don't share any interests with them and there isn't much to talk about. American women don't seem to like them very much either because the way they dress and other things. So they feel more comfortable around men. How do you know that in another country things wouldn't reverse on you?
The last reason is just saying your mind functions like a male mind....what does that mean exactly? What specific part? I mean I'm a guy and can't hold a conversation with most other guys because many typical things they like I find dumb (because our culture is dumb imo). Cars? Sports? lol. I do gravitate towards science, so usually that is a good subject (perhaps politics but I don't talk about that to people).
edit: and perhaps my senses are off, but your posting seems much more feminine than masculine.
the first reason is more along the lines of playing a game that everyone knows the rules to other than you. What is natural for other people is scripted for you. You often have to ask yourself 'how would a normal male/female act in this situation'
All people are fucking crazy. Other than sexual partner preference, gender doesn't mean much in my world. This is like one of those Myers-Briggs things, I just don't care and neither should anyone.
On January 28 2010 16:20 fusionsdf wrote: the first reason is more along the lines of playing a game that everyone knows the rules to other than you. What is natural for other people is scripted for you. You often have to ask yourself 'how would a normal male/female act in this situation'
lol, is anything really natural for anyone? Life is just awkward and filled with wtfs. I reject the idea that there is this so-called normal person. In my view, everything seems scripted and it is only mind-melting peer pressure that molds all of us to behave the same way.
Have you seen the guido scene? Or other wtf scenes? Those kids probably all feel like they are out of place, and I don't blame them. They prove that the question of "how would a normal x react" is a false question, because of the obvious ridiculous conclusion to which acting normal has led them.
Thats why I wanted to know specific instances which would allow one to determine if one is truly out of place.
lol, is anything really natural for anyone? Life is just awkward and filled with wtfs. I reject the idea that there is this so-called normal person. In my view, everything seems scripted and it is only mind-melting peer pressure that molds all of us to behave the same way.
By "How a normal person reacts," everyone probably means "What is the expected reaction that society would want?"
The things that make up the norms and taboos of society are based on the expected behaviors within that culture. Yes, people are individually different. No one is going to argue against that, but there is something called a normal person and normal people are those who don't deviate from what is expected by society. Having differing opinions don't make you deviant unless that opinion is what the entire culture is heavily influenced by.
It's not always a mind-melting peer pressure that gets us to behave this way, there is also the nurturing our parents gave us based upon their experience, instincts, and nature. They taught us how to behave in the society they grew up in so we aren't ostracized, even canines do this for their offspring. It's as natural as can be.
On January 28 2010 16:32 keV. wrote: I don't get this.
All people are fucking crazy. Other than sexual partner preference, gender doesn't mean much in my world. This is like one of those Myers-Briggs things, I just don't care and neither should anyone.
Though I think you should get to pick who you bang.
In my opinion people prattling on about being in the wrong body are just as insane as people thinking there is something wrong with "transitioning."
I'd ignore both of you at a party. How about both of these hypothetical crazies shut up and go get a job.
Do whatever makes you happy.
.....
They are "prattling on" about it because it's an enormous aspect of their lives and they've had to defend their choice of lifestyle from an unnervingly large segment of society who don't accept them. I for one find it all extremely interesting. Even if you don't, surely you can see that discussion can lead to more widespread understanding which will help the transgender population lead easier lives.
On January 28 2010 16:32 keV. wrote: I don't get this.
All people are fucking crazy. Other than sexual partner preference, gender doesn't mean much in my world. This is like one of those Myers-Briggs things, I just don't care and neither should anyone.
Though I think you should get to pick who you bang.
In my opinion people prattling on about being in the wrong body are just as insane as people thinking there is something wrong with "transitioning."
I'd ignore both of you at a party. How about both of these hypothetical crazies shut up and go get a job.
Do whatever makes you happy.
.....
They are "prattling on" about it because it's an enormous aspect of their lives and they've had to defend their choice of lifestyle from an unnervingly large segment of society who don't accept them. I for one find it all extremely interesting. Even if you don't, surely you can see that discussion can lead to more widespread understanding which will help the transgender population lead easier lives.
Not really. You can't reprogram an idiotic way of thinking. Humans are too stubborn, just wasted breath if you ask me. Has anyone successfully sat down with a truly transgender-hating (transgendist?) person and made him or her understand the concept of being in the wrong body. Maybe once, but widespread? No. They tried me with an episode of Law and Order:SVU once and I gotta say, I'm not convinced.
I'm a reasonable man and even I can't even begin to understand it at a philosophical level and anyone other than someone with a wall full of ridiculous degrees and first hand experience that said they did would be lying.
My point is, it would be better if your gender was more like your shoe size. Its observable at some level but no one REALLY cares until its up close and personal. You could see my big sandals and say to yourself "he probably has big feet" (I do) and that would be that. Just like you could see someone that is "hot" physically, regardless of gender, and move on.
You wouldn't want to make a first impression with someone using only your shoe size. Just like you wouldn't want someone to remember you for your gender history.
The important characteristic of my feet is that they are large, not that they are a certain size. Without using any kind of sexuality, the point of someones physical appearance is their physical appearance; the combination of facial features, cup size, shoe size, height, fashion sense, how you act in public, etc. Not that you are male or female. It would be better if it wasn't even a topic of discussion until you are considering a sexual relationship with someone. That is all I am saying. Putting a spotlight on something is always a double edged sword when you are talking sociology.
lol, is anything really natural for anyone? Life is just awkward and filled with wtfs. I reject the idea that there is this so-called normal person. In my view, everything seems scripted and it is only mind-melting peer pressure that molds all of us to behave the same way.
By "How a normal person reacts," everyone probably means "What is the expected reaction that society would want?"
The things that make up the norms and taboos of society are based on the expected behaviors within that culture. Yes, people are individually different. No one is going to argue against that, but there is something called a normal person and normal people are those who don't deviate from what is expected by society. Having differing opinions don't make you deviant unless that opinion is what the entire culture is heavily influenced by.
It's not always a mind-melting peer pressure that gets us to behave this way, there is also the nurturing our parents gave us based upon their experience, instincts, and nature. They taught us how to behave in the society they grew up in so we aren't ostracized, even canines do this for their offspring. It's as natural as can be.
Don't get me wrong, I know what he means. The problem is that it's normal to feel like you aren't normal. So what, precisely, tells you that your feelings of being different aren't in fact normal? Just a general feeling of being "different" seems vague to me. And vague feelings are dangerous imo....but I'm not going to go into that here.
You said that you were approved for an operation, but decided against it. If you're so convinced that you're a guy at heart, what stopped you from getting it. I know you said the feelings didn't come back, but what made you stop in the moment right then?
operations for transgenders are both expensive and not without risk. they aren't covered by insurance most of the time (almost never in USA). for ftm (female to male) top surgery, or removal of breasts, is the most common and often the only surgery done. bottom surgery is not very advanced and often has an undesired result.
EPT
I think that most people would want to transition to a male body in that case, but I can't afford it and eventually I've become kind of attached to being partly guy partly girl.
