Help, My Dad and Starcraft - Page 3

On January 03 2010 07:55 niteReloaded wrote:
Your father is right.

I have no deep understanding of chess, but I'm guessing the level strategic thinking in modern StarCraft is nowhere near chess. If Starcraft stayed alive for another 5years, we'd be seeing some pretty sick games.

On January 03 2010 08:21 DefMatrixUltra wrote:


Sorry to pick you out of the bunch, but what does this even mean? Starcraft is not chess 2.0 because Starcraft is not anything like chess 1.0. Chess is a turn-based strategy game with perfect information. Starcraft is a real-time strategy game with imperfect information (in just about every aspect of the game).

In chess, both players have access to all possible future states 'x' moves ahead (where 'x' depends on the experience of the player and other factors). The strategy in chess it to play the strongest possible game. There is little opportunity for deception in chess in comparison to Starcraft. You can't 5-pool your chess opponent in the first round to throw him off in the second round. But so much in Starcraft is based upon scouting your opponent, not letting him scout you, and letting him see things which will confuse or otherwise deceive him (e.g. if you 12 hatched vs. a Terran, and your opponent's SCV is circling around your main, you can make the lair at your natural and he will guess that you are getting ling speed).

The other thing is the fluidity of Starcraft. In Starcraft, you cannot go into a game saying "I'm gonna do 'x' strategy" because what if your opponent does something that counters 'x' strategy? What if your opponent does something completely whacky that you don't expect? You can't go with that strategy anymore. The thing is that in Starcraft this readjustment of strategy takes place almost continuously up until the late game. The same thing happens in chess but not nearly to the same degree. If you see your opponent doing some particular strategy in chess, you can't just perform an all-in counter on the spot. In Starcraft, you can do this because of the fluid nature of the game and because of imperfect information.

Think of the second set of July vs. Best in the EVER OSL finals where July did the drone drill that ended the game immediately. That kind of situation can never happen in chess. Chess is about the long game. Starcraft is about the superposition of the current game and the long game and how they conflict and complement each other.

Saying that Starcraft strategy is not as deep as chess is like saying that China is not as deep underground as the moon. You're just abusing the meaning of the word. The fact is you can't really compare the strategy in chess with the strategy in Starcraft because they are of a completely different nature.

On January 03 2010 08:50 niteReloaded wrote:

Do you need to think strategically to play Starcraft? yes.
Do you need to think strategically to play chess? yes.
So there is some similarity, let's just end it right there.
Nobody said Starcraft = Chess on computers anyway.

On January 03 2010 09:01 DefMatrixUltra wrote:
Orange juice and wine are different, but orange juice has a better taste. This is the statement which you made which I was talking about. You said that Starcraft is not as strategically deep as chess - that's what I was addressing.

On January 03 2010 09:35 ShroomyD wrote:
something from nada vs jangbi @ msl that'd be ez clarity for old peeps methinks