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Help, My Dad and Starcraft - Page 3

Blogs > Misrah
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
YPang
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States4024 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-02 23:11:14
January 02 2010 23:10 GMT
#41
my dad was so disgusted at me playing starcraft that he literally took my original starcraft Disc and destroyed it in two. However i torrented another copy of starcraft and continued to play. GG.

except for me i cannot argue how good starcraft is with asian parents.
sMi.Gladstone | BW: B high| SC2: gold T_T
huameng
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States1133 Posts
January 02 2010 23:19 GMT
#42
Better idea: show your dad bullet chess online. Then he'll see chess is all about clicking too.
skating
Mori600
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Japan311 Posts
January 02 2010 23:21 GMT
#43
I have met people like your father (my father is also like that). They do not want to know anything about the game and would be more than happy to see it destroyed and see you in your room studying. And when I told people that it was a professional sport in Korea, they got even more disgusted and said that Koreans have no life.
I regret not saying the same thing about their football.
Build a man a fire, he will be warm for a night. Lite a man on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life.
DefMatrixUltra
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada1992 Posts
January 02 2010 23:21 GMT
#44
On January 03 2010 07:55 niteReloaded wrote:
Your father is right.

I have no deep understanding of chess, but I'm guessing the level strategic thinking in modern StarCraft is nowhere near chess. If Starcraft stayed alive for another 5years, we'd be seeing some pretty sick games.


Sorry to pick you out of the bunch, but what does this even mean? Starcraft is not chess 2.0 because Starcraft is not anything like chess 1.0. Chess is a turn-based strategy game with perfect information. Starcraft is a real-time strategy game with imperfect information (in just about every aspect of the game).

In chess, both players have access to all possible future states 'x' moves ahead (where 'x' depends on the experience of the player and other factors). The strategy in chess it to play the strongest possible game. There is little opportunity for deception in chess in comparison to Starcraft. You can't 5-pool your chess opponent in the first round to throw him off in the second round. But so much in Starcraft is based upon scouting your opponent, not letting him scout you, and letting him see things which will confuse or otherwise deceive him (e.g. if you 12 hatched vs. a Terran, and your opponent's SCV is circling around your main, you can make the lair at your natural and he will guess that you are getting ling speed).

The other thing is the fluidity of Starcraft. In Starcraft, you cannot go into a game saying "I'm gonna do 'x' strategy" because what if your opponent does something that counters 'x' strategy? What if your opponent does something completely whacky that you don't expect? You can't go with that strategy anymore. The thing is that in Starcraft this readjustment of strategy takes place almost continuously up until the late game. The same thing happens in chess but not nearly to the same degree. If you see your opponent doing some particular strategy in chess, you can't just perform an all-in counter on the spot. In Starcraft, you can do this because of the fluid nature of the game and because of imperfect information.

Think of the second set of July vs. Best in the EVER OSL finals where July did the drone drill that ended the game immediately. That kind of situation can never happen in chess. Chess is about the long game. Starcraft is about the superposition of the current game and the long game and how they conflict and complement each other.

Saying that Starcraft strategy is not as deep as chess is like saying that China is not as deep underground as the moon. You're just abusing the meaning of the word. The fact is you can't really compare the strategy in chess with the strategy in Starcraft because they are of a completely different nature.
SkylineSC
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States564 Posts
January 02 2010 23:23 GMT
#45
starcraft is kind of like poker actually... imperfect information theory.

its not surprise SC players are good at poker.
Warrior Madness
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada3791 Posts
January 02 2010 23:23 GMT
#46
Dude..... Read through the DAY 9 thread.... There's even a podcast on maps....Show your pappy that.
The Past: Yellow, Julyzerg, Chojja, Savior, GGplay -- The Present: Luxury, Jae- The Future: -Dong, maGma, Zero, Effort, Hoejja, hyvaa, by.hero, calm, Action ---> SC2 (Ret?? Kolll Idra!! SEN, Cool, ZergBong, Leenock)
Zapdos_Smithh
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada2620 Posts
January 02 2010 23:26 GMT
#47
Jaedong vs Lomo game 3 on Katrina in GomTV season 1! My favourite game and probably the best game I've ever seen. I always show this one to friends starting sc.
Entertaining
Profile Joined September 2007
Canada793 Posts
January 02 2010 23:39 GMT
#48
flash vs jaedong on katrina was sick. if u commentate and tell him what "moves" each player is doing or trying to do, would make it very epic
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5459 Posts
January 02 2010 23:46 GMT
#49
casy fake FE vs july.
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
niteReloaded
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Croatia5281 Posts
January 02 2010 23:50 GMT
#50
On January 03 2010 08:21 DefMatrixUltra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2010 07:55 niteReloaded wrote:
Your father is right.

I have no deep understanding of chess, but I'm guessing the level strategic thinking in modern StarCraft is nowhere near chess. If Starcraft stayed alive for another 5years, we'd be seeing some pretty sick games.


Sorry to pick you out of the bunch, but what does this even mean? Starcraft is not chess 2.0 because Starcraft is not anything like chess 1.0. Chess is a turn-based strategy game with perfect information. Starcraft is a real-time strategy game with imperfect information (in just about every aspect of the game).

In chess, both players have access to all possible future states 'x' moves ahead (where 'x' depends on the experience of the player and other factors). The strategy in chess it to play the strongest possible game. There is little opportunity for deception in chess in comparison to Starcraft. You can't 5-pool your chess opponent in the first round to throw him off in the second round. But so much in Starcraft is based upon scouting your opponent, not letting him scout you, and letting him see things which will confuse or otherwise deceive him (e.g. if you 12 hatched vs. a Terran, and your opponent's SCV is circling around your main, you can make the lair at your natural and he will guess that you are getting ling speed).

The other thing is the fluidity of Starcraft. In Starcraft, you cannot go into a game saying "I'm gonna do 'x' strategy" because what if your opponent does something that counters 'x' strategy? What if your opponent does something completely whacky that you don't expect? You can't go with that strategy anymore. The thing is that in Starcraft this readjustment of strategy takes place almost continuously up until the late game. The same thing happens in chess but not nearly to the same degree. If you see your opponent doing some particular strategy in chess, you can't just perform an all-in counter on the spot. In Starcraft, you can do this because of the fluid nature of the game and because of imperfect information.

Think of the second set of July vs. Best in the EVER OSL finals where July did the drone drill that ended the game immediately. That kind of situation can never happen in chess. Chess is about the long game. Starcraft is about the superposition of the current game and the long game and how they conflict and complement each other.

Saying that Starcraft strategy is not as deep as chess is like saying that China is not as deep underground as the moon. You're just abusing the meaning of the word. The fact is you can't really compare the strategy in chess with the strategy in Starcraft because they are of a completely different nature.

Do you need to think strategically to play Starcraft? yes.
Do you need to think strategically to play chess? yes.
So there is some similarity, let's just end it right there.
Nobody said Starcraft = Chess on computers anyway.
Triple7
Profile Joined April 2009
United States656 Posts
January 02 2010 23:51 GMT
#51
Unless your dad has a deep understanding of the game, I don't think any game ever would look impressive. To someone who has no knowledge of the game, it does look like random fast clicks.
지지이이이이이이이이이이이
jhNz
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Germany2762 Posts
January 02 2010 23:52 GMT
#52
give him one of day[9]'s podcasts before you guys watch a vod and after that watch some of his stuff on his livestream account.
http://twitter.com/jhNz
DefMatrixUltra
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada1992 Posts
January 03 2010 00:01 GMT
#53
On January 03 2010 08:50 niteReloaded wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2010 08:21 DefMatrixUltra wrote:
On January 03 2010 07:55 niteReloaded wrote:
Your father is right.

I have no deep understanding of chess, but I'm guessing the level strategic thinking in modern StarCraft is nowhere near chess. If Starcraft stayed alive for another 5years, we'd be seeing some pretty sick games.


Sorry to pick you out of the bunch, but what does this even mean? Starcraft is not chess 2.0 because Starcraft is not anything like chess 1.0. Chess is a turn-based strategy game with perfect information. Starcraft is a real-time strategy game with imperfect information (in just about every aspect of the game).

In chess, both players have access to all possible future states 'x' moves ahead (where 'x' depends on the experience of the player and other factors). The strategy in chess it to play the strongest possible game. There is little opportunity for deception in chess in comparison to Starcraft. You can't 5-pool your chess opponent in the first round to throw him off in the second round. But so much in Starcraft is based upon scouting your opponent, not letting him scout you, and letting him see things which will confuse or otherwise deceive him (e.g. if you 12 hatched vs. a Terran, and your opponent's SCV is circling around your main, you can make the lair at your natural and he will guess that you are getting ling speed).

The other thing is the fluidity of Starcraft. In Starcraft, you cannot go into a game saying "I'm gonna do 'x' strategy" because what if your opponent does something that counters 'x' strategy? What if your opponent does something completely whacky that you don't expect? You can't go with that strategy anymore. The thing is that in Starcraft this readjustment of strategy takes place almost continuously up until the late game. The same thing happens in chess but not nearly to the same degree. If you see your opponent doing some particular strategy in chess, you can't just perform an all-in counter on the spot. In Starcraft, you can do this because of the fluid nature of the game and because of imperfect information.

Think of the second set of July vs. Best in the EVER OSL finals where July did the drone drill that ended the game immediately. That kind of situation can never happen in chess. Chess is about the long game. Starcraft is about the superposition of the current game and the long game and how they conflict and complement each other.

Saying that Starcraft strategy is not as deep as chess is like saying that China is not as deep underground as the moon. You're just abusing the meaning of the word. The fact is you can't really compare the strategy in chess with the strategy in Starcraft because they are of a completely different nature.

Do you need to think strategically to play Starcraft? yes.
Do you need to think strategically to play chess? yes.
So there is some similarity, let's just end it right there.
Nobody said Starcraft = Chess on computers anyway.


Orange juice and wine are different, but orange juice has a better taste. This is the statement which you made which I was talking about. You said that Starcraft is not as strategically deep as chess - that's what I was addressing.
nicoaldo
Profile Joined March 2009
Argentina939 Posts
January 03 2010 00:05 GMT
#54
Make him watch Day[9] daily.
YPang
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States4024 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-03 00:05:58
January 03 2010 00:05 GMT
#55
On January 03 2010 09:01 DefMatrixUltra wrote:
Orange juice and wine are different, but orange juice has a better taste. This is the statement which you made which I was talking about. You said that Starcraft is not as strategically deep as chess - that's what I was addressing.

StarCraft is definitely as strategical as chess. Just in my opinion without anything backing it up.

However i believe no one is in any position to make an assumption that chess requires more strategy than starcraft or vice versa. Because its highly unlikely that you've played both in a competitive level.

i for one can say that during macro games where most noobs would see nothing but people massing units i can see an enormous amount of thought that was used during the game.
sMi.Gladstone | BW: B high| SC2: gold T_T
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
January 03 2010 00:11 GMT
#56
He won't get it if you try to show him the game.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
ShroomyD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Australia245 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-03 00:55:51
January 03 2010 00:35 GMT
#57
something from nada vs jangbi @ msl that'd be ez clarity for old peeps methinks
아나코자본주의
Foucault
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Sweden2826 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-03 00:58:06
January 03 2010 00:49 GMT
#58
wrong thread
I know that deep inside of you there's a humongous set of testicles just waiting to pop out. Let 'em pop bro. //////////////////// AKA JensOfSweden // Lee Yoon Yeol forever.
Foucault
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Sweden2826 Posts
January 03 2010 00:59 GMT
#59
On January 03 2010 09:35 ShroomyD wrote:
something from nada vs jangbi @ msl that'd be ez clarity for old peeps methinks


word up

except that I'd love for Nada to have won that
I know that deep inside of you there's a humongous set of testicles just waiting to pop out. Let 'em pop bro. //////////////////// AKA JensOfSweden // Lee Yoon Yeol forever.
eatmyshorts5
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States1530 Posts
January 03 2010 01:50 GMT
#60
He's making a judgment about something without understanding it. The only way to get him to change his mind is for him to actually play the game. Plain. And. Simple.
BF:BC2 ID: BisuStork//CJ Entusman #32
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