• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:19
CEST 05:19
KST 12:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway112v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature2Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18Serral wins EWC 202549
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!8Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments7
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again! RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread What mix of new and old maps do you want in the next 1v1 ladder pool? (SC2) : Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Would you prefer the game to be balanced around top-tier pro level or average pro level?
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments SEL Masters #5 - Korea vs Russia (SC Evo) Enki Epic Series #5 - TaeJa vs Classic (SC Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull
Brood War
General
ASL 20 HYPE VIDEO! Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion New season has just come in ladder [ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro24 Group A BWCL Season 63 Announcement Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches KCM 2025 Season 3
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Biochemical Cost of Gami…
TrAiDoS
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1383 users

An Opinion Piece #1

Blogs > Chef
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-01 20:52:57
January 01 2010 09:22 GMT
#1
An Opinion Piece #1
[image loading]
Gather 'round children while uncle Chef rambles to himself


StarCraft II

      What the hell? WHY does everyone think that StarCraft II is the end of progaming in StarCraft I? Does that really make sense to anyone? It's the sequel in the franchise, not the progaming circuit. There have been tonnes and tonnes and tonnes of new games with better graphics and competitive elements and none of them have anywhere near the success that StarCraft I has.
      Do you know what will make StarCraft I take a backseat to StarCraft II? Us. If we start believing StarCraft II is the sequel in the progaming circuit, or rather, if the Koreans do, then that's what's going to happen. The market will go where the fans go. But that's not going to happen. There's too many of us expressing regret over the idea of StarCraft II replacing StarCraft I in the proscene. Too much nostalgia, too much rooting in our minds. Sure, we'll all give StarCraft II a chance. We'll play it a bit, wait a year for people to get good while they air a few gimmicky T.V. spots, but there's not even going to be a proper league for the game for at least a few months. There might not be one ever.
      Remember when we all said StarCraft I was a complete fluke? That getting three races, so completely diverse and interesting, so generally easy to understand, and then turning them into a completely balanced and strategically diverse game is virtually unrepeatable? I still believe that. We have an entire industry of ESPORTS to prove it. If there were a superior race to choose in StarCraft, by God they'd have have found out, and they wouldn't be playing anything else.
      StarCraft II is WarCraft III in space. I can't be the only person who wants to keep watching StarCraft I long after Blizzard's newest RTS. And the next one. And the next one. And the next one.
      What would happen to the proscene if every time Blizzard made a new RTS, the old one was kicked out the door? Games would become more gimmicky and less professional. StarCraft I has evolved so much since its early days, and has become such a well thought out and interesting sport. We lose all that when we switch games. We also lose motivation to climb all the way back up, if we know it's only going to last until the next commercial release.
      But you know what? I'm not even worried. People said this every year since StarCraft I first came out. That somehow the game is going to leave us, no one is going to care, and it's going to be replaced. People even said that when WarCraft III came out, and look where that is. They even got their own proscene, and it's absolute crap compared to StarCraft I. People say things like 'the game has been figured out, people are going to start getting bored' every year too. Bitter people who are trying to find reasons to quit StarCraft I and move on with their lives. But you know what, they always come back. You don't move on from StarCraft I. StarCraft I is immortal.

StarCraft is Getting Old

      But it's not getting repetitive. Or boring. Or too mechanical.
      Lots of people look nostalgically at the old days of StarCraft. That era when anything went, and players were supposedly more 'creative' in their strategies. This is bullshit. I know every BoxeR interview you'll ever read has him lamenting the invention of the replay, and lamenting the supposed death of innovation, but you can't take every word he says as absolute truth. Replays are the best thing that ever happened to StarCraft. Replays are what made people get really good, really fast. BoxeR is looking for excuses as to why he's losing these days. BoxeR is looking back to those days when he was just some random dude owning people in small tourneys. I love watching his games, but replays aren't the reason he's losing these days. He's losing these days because he couldn't cope with the evolution of StarCraft, because he's just plain slow compared to other players, and because he's giving himself huge mental blocks.
      The fear of replays BoxeR expresses is the same thing people claim is present in the scene today. That the game has been totally mapped out, where any creativity is immediately copied or scribbled out after players have seen it once. We all read Artosis' guide to TvZ "how to get good really fast." He said these same things. StarCraft is not going to change, every player who's any good does this virtually every game, and everyone knows it's the best way to play StarCraft. It didn't take that long to find out he was wrong though. We saw mech make a comeback against Zergs for a long time, and save Terrans from maps where they would have otherwise been very weak if they didn't evolve. Even now that the mech age is ending, Terran is not the same as it was before. The builds Terran has to use are changing because Zerg have evolved too. Games are not some static cookie cutter rutine of actions, but a constantly changing and improving lifeform that is fun to watch. What was acceptable last year gets run over this year.
      There is also a lot of regret for old progamers retiring or no longer succeeding in the scene. While I admit I like watching old pros trying to slug it out one more time (JulyZerg's Golden mouse run was so incredible), I don't think there's any reason to think the golden age of heros has ended. These days we have plenty to cheer for, all you need to do is choose someone. So what if they aren't winning league after league after league anymore. They are showing AMAZING games. They are changing StarCraft. They are still exciting. Don't stick yourself in some hole where you cry about Reach not qualifying for any leagues. If you do that StarCraft will start to get boring because you won't be on the edge of your seat cheering in any of the games that are happening right now. You have to care about who wins, and you have to care about someone who actually has a damn chance in hell.
      It's not even hard to choose a player. There are so many interesting players in the scene right now to choose from, who all have completely different styles and incredible skill. It's mind boggling how so many different paths of focus can all be viable in such a competetive environment. You can choose Jaedong, for that ultra stylish attacking micro, or you can choose Flash, for his stoic push-until-I'm-dead rigor. You can follow the underdogs, Calm who's strategy is much, much better than his multitasking, or TurN who's all or nothing attitude leads to incredible climaxes in games. Anyone really, as long as they're not some has been pro who only gets a televised match once every 2 months.

StarCraft has been so good lately

      Seriously. Every OSL and MSL game has been fantastic, there's been tonnes of memorable games in the proleague, and really incredible innovation recently. I can't believe how awesome every game gets after ro16, and they only get better and better. [obviously there's going to be spoilers in this section]
      Take Zero for example. When Pimpest Plays first came out, its goal was to find moves that were at once innovative, but also practical and emulatable. What Zero has done with queens in ZvZ is remarkably obvious, yet completely new. It's so basic to understand that late game ZvZ means huge muta balls where every individual muta makes less and less of a difference on its own. What's another 9 damage when you're already doing 300 a volley? Ensnare works on the same principal as upgrades. It's better to have +1 damage each for 24 marines than it is to have another 6 damage total that one extra marine could provide. It's better to make your enemy 25% (or whatever it is) less efficient than it is to make your army 1% more powerful. It's going to be essential in midgame ZvZ from now on, and Zero has proved it by coming from behind against a player who didn't grasp that basic idea. You know why else I like Zero? He reminds me of NaDa. Ever since I heard he has ridiculously high apm, I've always wanted to watch his games, thinking he was destined for at least part of the greatness NaDa was. I don't know if he's exactly the trooper NaDa is, but I sure do like his multitasking. Clean, and efficient. That's what Zero is.
      Shine is another player who's impressed me suddenly. Everyone who says he didn't deserve to knock Stork out is a fool. Did you even see Shine after set 2? He was sweating like crazy, and totally exhausted. That's what I like to see. I want someone playing their hardest, getting desperate, and really really wanting to win. If it weren't for those glasses and that awful haircut, he might even look half decent. In any case, his play in set 2 was great. Sniping reavers and observers even after 30 minutes of gameplay... Great use of burrow (so it's not totally innovative, he still did magic with it)... Overall just very intense while Stork did his boring old thing and slowly took the map. Don't get me wrong, Stork has his appeal, but he wasn't who I was watching in those games. When he got rolled in set 3 I was glad. Stork didn't deserve either of those last two games, and I'm glad Shine made it through.
      Calm's lair before hatch timing attack, Flash's 7rax overlord snipe, Movie's mother fucking thx2theshield battery 2gate zealot rush. If you haven't been loving StarCraft lately you haven't been watching it.

      The only bad thing about StarCraft recently is these split BO5's. I'm not saying anything novel here when I tell you they're awful. The finals aren't done this way, and neither should the semi's. I don't care if a player has a bad day... That's not what makes StarCraft exciting. How am I supposed to care about a series when I watch the first game one day, and then 10 days later when the result is a vague memory I see the last two, or four? Where's the excitement of metagame where you get to imagine the stress a player is under from a tough loss, or a long game? Where's the sweat running down their faces from being exhausted by a totally epic nerd war? What's the point even? It's not lengthen the tournament, since they just do everyone's set1 on the same day.

+ Show Spoiler +
Sorry that was pretty long and disjointed. I was really inspired when I started writing it, got a few points in and then you can probably tell where my train of thought is completely lost, because I was interrupted for 12 hours and I still wanted to write it for some reason.


****
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
rel
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Guam3521 Posts
January 01 2010 09:27 GMT
#2
Aww my little chefy's growing up! LOL Excellent post. I agree with 100% of it.
I'll tank push my way into her heart. ☮♥&$!
ItsPaul
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Australia177 Posts
January 01 2010 09:31 GMT
#3
All these points are so damn good that you have changed my perspective on watching Brood War.
Freyr
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States500 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-01 09:49:56
January 01 2010 09:35 GMT
#4
The distaste for replays has been echoed by many more older players. I don't think it's very nice to accuse them of trying to find excuses for losing. I remember an interview with Grrr.. where he mentioned a time when there were only a few who knew the strategies that worked (or something to that effect). Being one of the people to create those strategies without the aid of a pair of shoulders below you must be pretty rewarding.

I think it's possible to differentiate between the kind of creativity exhibited by the earliest players, who were in completely uncharted territory, and the kind exhibited by modern players. I think there is value in both kinds, but the first is assuredly more appealing to me.

Also, even if Boxer was trying to excuse his losses, I'm not sure how you can establish that his relatively poor performance has nothing to do with replays. Sure - he failed to keep up with the evolution of starcraft, but it seems not unlikely to me that the evolution and the rise of generation after generation of players had a lot to do with the existence of replays.

Of course, if no one had replays to leech off of, maybe starcraft wouldn't have become so popular and professionally successful.

However, I agree that starcraft is still very interesting, and that there is a lot of innovation going on (in spite of the fact that I do cry about Reach not qualifying) - I just think discussion as to the inclusion of replays in future games is worthwhile.
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
January 01 2010 09:38 GMT
#5
Starcraft 2 will never replace Starcraft 1. Not by a long shot.
Brood War loyalist
Jakalo
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Latvia2350 Posts
January 01 2010 09:45 GMT
#6
Great blog.
Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be.
Husky
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3362 Posts
January 01 2010 09:45 GMT
#7
FUCK EVERYONE WHO SAYS STARCRAFT IS DYING.

If anything StarCraft is way more fucking popular than it was just a couple years ago. StarCraft 2 will also not be the death of Starcraft 1 nor will it split the community in a terrible way.

Good read.
Commentaries: youtube.com/HuskyStarcraft
nttea
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Sweden4353 Posts
January 01 2010 09:51 GMT
#8
I agree with you! omg... 5/5 n stuff.
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
January 01 2010 10:04 GMT
#9
Totally agree, good thing to know I'm not the only one who thinks that Starcraft 2 will not be the end of the Original. I got beta so I'll (hopefully) see soon.
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
HeyitsClay
Profile Joined April 2008
Canada336 Posts
January 01 2010 10:36 GMT
#10
You have changed my outlook on things O_O
GogoKodo
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Canada1785 Posts
January 01 2010 10:41 GMT
#11
Mostly all your points are fine, but I don't think you could honestly say you are sure SC1 will stay ahead of SC2 in terms of progaming. Maybe SC2 will turn out to be awesome, maybe it will suck, it's pretty tough to call it right now. It's all very speculative right now and even though you bring up good points your post comes off as just a little too confident about such big unknowns.

On January 01 2010 18:22 Chef wrote:StarCraft II is WarCraft III in space. I can't be the only person who wants to keep watching StarCraft I long after Blizzard's newest RTS. And the next one. And the next one. And the next one.


I think this part is a little bit silly, though it could turn out to be true in the end. Right now saying SC2 is WC3 in space seems pretty arrogant and/or ignorant.

Sure you and a lot of other people will want to continue watching SC1 but ultimately whichever turns out to have the larger fan base (for whatever reason) will flourish. There will be a lot of new people brought into pro gaming that have no nostalgia towards SC1 that could sway things. There's also the possibility (though unlikely) that SC1 and SC2 can co-exist in pro gaming. In any case, yes you probably will be able to continue watching SC1 games, but if SC2 becomes large you may find yourself in a similar situation to current WC3 watchers. Pro games and a community will exist for you, it will just be smaller.
twitter: @terrancem
besiger
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Croatia2452 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-01 11:37:53
January 01 2010 11:36 GMT
#12
I believe SC2 wont have anything on SC1 in terms of quality, but it will get flooded by a bunch of new kids that want fancy 3d graphics and all that new shiny stuff, the new generations that have grown up with better looking games, so to say, and probably think that sc1 looks like crap and is too hard to get good at, unlike sc2 that will have features to make playing easier. I keep arguing with a friend who is a casual RTS gamer over things like selecting multiple buildings and as much units as you want, he keeps saying why not put it in, why do things have to be made harder with handicaps like limited unit selection and individual building macro, and i think that most new players that will come to sc2 don't understand that in order to have good competition there have to be goals you can work towards, something that will separate you from the other guy based on how much effort you put in, if everyone can macro perfectly after playing the game for a month it wont be the same game anymore.
But im starting to vent my own frustration, in the end i think sc2 will have a much larger fan base due to all the new kids that will come in, and of course a ton of sponsors are gonna wanna get in on the action and throw money their way, how will this affect us ? It probably wont all that much, our scene has lived for years now without much major sponsoring, most tournaments are sponsored by the community itself, but with all that new money flowing in i find it hard that the Koreans will stay on sc1, and that might affect us a lot.

good read.
A weak will coupled with delusions of grandeur
Boonbag
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France3318 Posts
January 01 2010 11:48 GMT
#13
I approve this message.
reit
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada209 Posts
January 01 2010 11:53 GMT
#14
I hope you guys are ready for your community to slowly die off, if this is how you think.

If SC2 does not replace SC:BW as THE competitive game, both will die. Doesn't matter which one is better or requires more skill.

Ask the Counter-Strike players what they think about sequels and split communities.
DoX.)
Profile Joined December 2008
Singapore6164 Posts
January 01 2010 12:03 GMT
#15
Other then the Boxer part, this was great

though I still feel that Boxer has a very good point about replays basically exposing every 'innovative' build too quickly..oh well
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
January 01 2010 12:38 GMT
#16
what about money?
brood war for life, brood war forever
SkelA
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Macedonia13032 Posts
January 01 2010 14:06 GMT
#17
Totaly agree with you ! Ive saying SC2 is like Warcraft 3 in space from the first time i saw it haha .

SC2 will never surpass SC in entertaiment , balance , strategy and just overall awesomness.. SC2 can get maybe alot more players and probably more competition worldwide ( i seriosly doubt this but who knows ) but only for a few years. I still think its western world fault for not making SC as it is in korea and this will happen to SC2 and will slowly die ( probably? ) after 2-3 years like all crappy new games that are coming out.

I think SC2 will not became so popular in korea only because the the KESPA vs blizzard rivalrly and bilzzard will probably not alow for broadcasting SC2 because of the no LAN policy. But they cant touch SC so it will still go strong if there are still fans that enjoy watching,

And after ppl realising how awesome was and still is SC will became ever more popular !!!
Stork and KHAN fan till 2012 ...
reit
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada209 Posts
January 01 2010 14:08 GMT
#18
i lol at the amount of cluelessness in this blog (and I mean responses, OP was alright)

Dont take your dreams for reality. If SC2 does not become the standard, both games are dead.
SkelA
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Macedonia13032 Posts
January 01 2010 14:14 GMT
#19
On January 01 2010 23:08 reit wrote:
i lol at the amount of cluelessness in this blog (and I mean responses, OP was alright)

Dont take your dreams for reality. If SC2 does not become the standard, both games are dead.


Why is that? As long there are games broadcasted in Korea and even SC is not played anywhere else in the world im still happy. I enjoy watching more than actually playing the game lately.
Stork and KHAN fan till 2012 ...
Ikonn
Profile Joined October 2009
Netherlands1958 Posts
January 01 2010 14:20 GMT
#20
On January 01 2010 23:08 reit wrote:
i lol at the amount of cluelessness in this blog (and I mean responses, OP was alright)

Dont take your dreams for reality. If SC2 does not become the standard, both games are dead.


As long as there are fans, there will be sponsors. As long as there are sponsors, SC will live.

So assuming the fans don't immediately abandon SC the moment SC2 is released, I think SC will be alive for quite a while. Unless SC2 really is good enough to replace SC.
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
00:00
Elite Rising Star #16 - Day 3
CranKy Ducklings116
Liquipedia
The PiG Daily
22:45
Best Games of SC
Reynor vs Zoun
Classic vs Clem
herO vs Solar
Serral vs TBD
PiGStarcraft512
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft512
Nina 209
CosmosSc2 35
StarCraft: Brood War
Backho 124
NaDa 93
ggaemo 79
Noble 63
Icarus 6
Dota 2
monkeys_forever530
NeuroSwarm204
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
Fnx 3344
Stewie2K508
Other Games
tarik_tv11983
summit1g10052
shahzam744
JimRising 570
C9.Mang0502
WinterStarcraft370
Maynarde138
Trikslyr49
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1403
BasetradeTV97
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH188
• practicex 24
• Mapu8
• davetesta3
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1033
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
6h 41m
Afreeca Starleague
6h 41m
JyJ vs TY
Bisu vs Speed
WardiTV Summer Champion…
7h 41m
Creator vs Rogue
MaxPax vs Cure
PiGosaur Monday
20h 41m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 6h
Mini vs TBD
Soma vs sSak
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 7h
Clem vs goblin
ByuN vs SHIN
Online Event
1d 20h
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2 days
Zoun vs Bunny
herO vs Solar
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
LiuLi Cup
3 days
BSL Team Wars
3 days
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
SC Evo League
4 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
4 days
Classic vs Percival
Spirit vs NightMare
[BSL 2025] Weekly
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
SC Evo League
5 days
BSL Team Wars
5 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Queen vs HyuN
EffOrt vs Calm
Wardi Open
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Jiahua Invitational
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSLAN 3
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.