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The melting of the polar ice caps - Page 2

Blogs > Osmoses
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
December 22 2009 23:55 GMT
#21
On December 23 2009 08:46 Alur wrote:
Do you really think that the scientist behind the global warming reasearch would make such critical mistakes?


Exactly, I heard the guy is pretty smart
beep boop
Alur
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Denmark3900 Posts
December 22 2009 23:57 GMT
#22
On December 23 2009 08:55 7mk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2009 08:46 Alur wrote:
Do you really think that the scientist behind the global warming reasearch would make such critical mistakes?


Exactly, I heard the guy is pretty smart

That's actually quite hilarious. Fixed.
AKA No can Dazzle | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlTpX7z3Pok
TL+ Member
Psyonic_Reaver
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4336 Posts
December 22 2009 23:57 GMT
#23
Here's a surprise! The Earth is changing! Just like it's done the past Billions of years! Who knows, maybe Ohio will be the new polar ice cap?
So wait? I'm bad? =(
seppolevne
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada1681 Posts
December 23 2009 00:19 GMT
#24
On December 23 2009 08:02 eXigent. wrote:
What about coastal cities like vancouver, new york, florida etc. All of the major port cities that are located at sea level will flood. 20cm is over a foot of water. Having a foot of water flood all of those major cities will be a huge disaster. I can predict sewer systems all along the coast being overfilled and backing up, and tons of contaminated water to deal with at the very least, let alone all of the structural damage it would cause to the cities and all of the sinkholes / mudslides / electricity problems it would cause.

Do you build a Dam all the way around the coast of the world? 0o

A ruler begs to differ.
J- Pirate Udyr WW T- Pirate Riven Galio M- Galio Annie S- Sona Lux -- Always farm, never carry.
Dasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States71 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-23 00:36:37
December 23 2009 00:36 GMT
#25
On December 23 2009 09:19 seppolevne wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2009 08:02 eXigent. wrote:
What about coastal cities like vancouver, new york, florida etc. All of the major port cities that are located at sea level will flood. 20cm is over a foot of water. Having a foot of water flood all of those major cities will be a huge disaster. I can predict sewer systems all along the coast being overfilled and backing up, and tons of contaminated water to deal with at the very least, let alone all of the structural damage it would cause to the cities and all of the sinkholes / mudslides / electricity problems it would cause.

Do you build a Dam all the way around the coast of the world? 0o

A ruler begs to differ.

No king can tell us how long a foot is. Damn monarchs.
"My favorite race is zerglings"
JohnColtrane
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Australia4813 Posts
December 23 2009 00:56 GMT
#26
On December 23 2009 09:19 seppolevne wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2009 08:02 eXigent. wrote:
What about coastal cities like vancouver, new york, florida etc. All of the major port cities that are located at sea level will flood. 20cm is over a foot of water. Having a foot of water flood all of those major cities will be a huge disaster. I can predict sewer systems all along the coast being overfilled and backing up, and tons of contaminated water to deal with at the very least, let alone all of the structural damage it would cause to the cities and all of the sinkholes / mudslides / electricity problems it would cause.

Do you build a Dam all the way around the coast of the world? 0o

A ruler begs to differ.


haha
HEY MEYT
FortuneSyn
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
1826 Posts
December 23 2009 01:05 GMT
#27
Try observing the change in water level in a glass of water with a frozen ice and then after it melts.
REDBLUEGREEN
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Germany1903 Posts
December 23 2009 01:24 GMT
#28
On December 23 2009 08:57 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
Here's a surprise! The Earth is changing! Just like it's done the past Billions of years! Who knows, maybe Ohio will be the new polar ice cap?

Of course the earth is an unstable system and changes are natural, same as tsunamies which kill 300,000 people in SE Asia are natural. Doesn't mean we should ignore the dangers of change does it?
ArmChairCritic
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden36 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-23 02:02:17
December 23 2009 01:53 GMT
#29
What alot of you cretins overlook is that the south pole and the ice on greenland is not floating in water but it is resting on landmass.

gg no re
An intellectual is a person who has found one thing that is more interesting than sex.
Steveh
Profile Joined October 2009
United States112 Posts
December 23 2009 02:00 GMT
#30
i learned that iceland is really green and greenland is really icey on mighty ducks
quack quack quack quack
ArmChairCritic
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden36 Posts
December 23 2009 02:14 GMT
#31
On December 23 2009 08:57 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
Here's a surprise! The Earth is changing! Just like it's done the past Billions of years! Who knows, maybe Ohio will be the new polar ice cap?

Here's a suprise! It isn't morally right to make other people pay for your actions! So we should stop polluting and thus making billions of people life's a bit better,
An intellectual is a person who has found one thing that is more interesting than sex.
gyth
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
657 Posts
December 23 2009 02:21 GMT
#32
Scientists previously lacked knowledge of changes in terrestrial storage of water. Surveying of water retention by soil absorption and by reservoirs outright ("impoundment") at just under the volume of Lake Superior agreed with a dam-building peak in the 1930s-1970s timespan. Such impoundment masked tens of millimetres of sea level rise in that span. ( Impact of Artificial Reservoir Water Impoundment on Global Sea Level. http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/320/5873/212?rss=1. B. F. Chao,* Y. H. Wu, Y. S. Li).

Just need to build more dams, problem solved ...err masked.
The plural of anecdote is not data.
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
December 23 2009 02:27 GMT
#33
Polar ice caps are generally used to refer to any ice in a polar region, though ice caps specifically refer to ice over land (glaciers).

By Archimedes's principle, we know that any ice floating in ocean water would not raise the sea level at all. However, the melting of ice caps / glaciers WILL cause significant rises in sea level; you cannot calculate sea rise linearly (with your little 2mm x 100) because ice reflects sunlight much better than water does, so as more and more ice melts, there is more water -> water soaks up more heat -> ice melts even faster. Vicious cycle of doom.
:)
Trident
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Bhutan54 Posts
December 23 2009 02:43 GMT
#34
On December 23 2009 08:14 Osmoses wrote:
Ifs and buts, I'm thinking the sea level would have to rise pretty damn fast to cause any significant problems.


So, lets focus now and forget the future, eh?
Dont stress, meditate
Alethios
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
New Zealand2765 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-23 02:58:09
December 23 2009 02:49 GMT
#35
*sigh*

I really expected better from teamliquid.

So much armchair science going on. Your arrogance astounds me. How could you possibly think something as vastly complex as the earth's climate can be solved with one short sentence?

Actually... well done to many of you, you've exposed the myth that is global warming. It's that easy. Seriously. All the scientists (amongst which there is a greater consensus than any other field of science) are wrong. There is nothing to worry about, we can all go back to business as usual. Seriously though, do you actually think nobody has considered the immensely basic principal that the melting of suspended ice does not increase the water level in and of itself?

I'm reminded of an xkcd comic:
[image loading]


Oh and here is most of the climate change denier's arguments refuted in one go.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

To quote xkcd again:

What is more likely -- that you have uncovered fundamental flaws in this field that nobody has ever thought about, or that you need to read a little more? Hint: It's the one that involves doing less work and sticking your head in the sand.
When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love.
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24676 Posts
December 23 2009 02:59 GMT
#36
On December 23 2009 11:49 Alethios wrote:
What is more likely -- that you have uncovered fundamental flaws in this field that nobody has ever thought about, or that you need to read a little more? Hint: It's the one that involves doing less work and sticking your head in the sand.

As true as your message is, I'm reminded of the fact that it took millennia before people refuted the popular belief that heavier items fall faster... and all you have to do to disprove it is take two dissimilar items out of your pocket and drop them...

On the other hand I don't think that counterexample applies well to such heated contemporary issues as global warming or evolution.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-23 03:00:58
December 23 2009 03:00 GMT
#37
On December 23 2009 11:49 Alethios wrote:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]



That is an awesome picture. I think I'll use that in every global warming argument i ever enter
:)
Alethios
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
New Zealand2765 Posts
December 23 2009 03:13 GMT
#38
On December 23 2009 11:59 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2009 11:49 Alethios wrote:
What is more likely -- that you have uncovered fundamental flaws in this field that nobody has ever thought about, or that you need to read a little more? Hint: It's the one that involves doing less work and sticking your head in the sand.

As true as your message is, I'm reminded of the fact that it took millennia before people refuted the popular belief that heavier items fall faster... and all you have to do to disprove it is take two dissimilar items out of your pocket and drop them...

On the other hand I don't think that counterexample applies well to such heated contemporary issues as global warming or evolution.

Your point is a good one, we must be mindful of allowing ourselves to become trapped within our axioms. The reason, I feel, that such an idea survived for so long, was because it was itself axiomatic and simply accepted as fact rather than extensively researched.

Scientists in the field know how much resistance there is to the widespread acceptance of their theory. One feels, upon reading such reports as those given to congress last year, that they have gone above and beyond what would generally be required.

On December 23 2009 12:00 synapse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2009 11:49 Alethios wrote:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]



That is an awesome picture. I think I'll use that in every global warming argument i ever enter

Yeah, I pretty stoked to stumble across it myself.
When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love.
eXigent.
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Canada2419 Posts
December 23 2009 03:37 GMT
#39
On December 23 2009 09:19 seppolevne wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2009 08:02 eXigent. wrote:
What about coastal cities like vancouver, new york, florida etc. All of the major port cities that are located at sea level will flood. 20cm is over a foot of water. Having a foot of water flood all of those major cities will be a huge disaster. I can predict sewer systems all along the coast being overfilled and backing up, and tons of contaminated water to deal with at the very least, let alone all of the structural damage it would cause to the cities and all of the sinkholes / mudslides / electricity problems it would cause.

Do you build a Dam all the way around the coast of the world? 0o

A ruler begs to differ.


LOL thats what I get for mixing mass quantities of marijuana with simple 2nd grade math skills. Sigh.
Ludrik
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Australia523 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-23 03:44:38
December 23 2009 03:43 GMT
#40
Another thing people in this thread seem to be forgetting (or simply never learnt) is that a materials mean temperature doesn't begin to change significantly until a decent proportion of the material has changed state. Because of this mean surface temperatures at the polar ice caps won't change significantly. Locally both the ice and water may be 0 degrees C. However once the ratio of ice to water reduces you will begin to see an acceleration in temperature change, (because of the nature of heat transfer. with a lower surface area the ability of energy to transfer between the ice and water will reduce.).

This is also without taking into account the fact that ice will reflect a lot of radiation away while water will absorb more of it, this also causes the energy going into the system to increase and can occur without significant temperature change (because of what I explained in my first paragraph). This process can also cause a local decrease in air temperature because a lower proportion of energy is being radiated back through the atmosphere.(due to increased levels of liquid water)

Most people don't seem to look at the system as a whole. They will either look solely at atmospheric temps or surface temps without understanding how they're interelated.

Reduction in polar ice caps shows that the enthalpy of the system is increasing. This is essentially acting as a buffer to temperature change. The more they reduce the greater the acceleration of temperature change will be because energy will no longer be able to stored by merely a substance changing state.
Only a fool would die laughing. I was a fool.
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