EPTu ninja edited a little earlier saying ur TvT might not necessarily be better. What u go from ur comp to ur phone in that short amount of time? hmmmm.
TvZ - The bane of my existance - Page 2
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
u ninja edited a little earlier saying ur TvT might not necessarily be better. What u go from ur comp to ur phone in that short amount of time? hmmmm. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
ninja edits are no more  I dunno, maybe loser could join Empyrean in Noobville. | ||
Ver
United States2186 Posts
To that effect I suggest watching vods and getting that build down, then practicing it in single player until you can do it mechanically. Do this for every map before you play on it until you get the build down correctly in practice every time. If you can't do it right against nobody you will of course have problems against an opponent that you must react to. You say you can do it properly in practice alone but it falls apart in real games; that simply means you aren't practicing alone enough to the point where it is subconscious or you don't really understand what you are doing in the first place (sounds like both). Either way the remedy is careful study of pro vods + single player practice until it is second nature. For 1 basic rax fe openings: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/31182_Flash_vs_HoGiL (pre defiler timing) http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/11452_Flash_vs_YellOw[ArnC] (defending muta/ling allins) http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/11301_Flash_vs_hyvaa (muta defense) http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/11189_Flash_vs_Jaedong (sk terran) http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/11155_Flash_vs_Jaedong (sk terran) That should be a good list to get you started. All are vs 2 hatch muta though if you want a 3 hatch muta you're going to have to look at other games. I suggest this for defending 3 hatch muta. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/9420_Jaedong_vs_Mind There's no substitute to watching pro games and if you say your understanding is bad then that is the place to start. Pause it frequently and look at why the Terrans do what they do in response to certain situations. Replays are obviously better for this since then you can watch through their pov but I don't really remember any useful standard TvZ reps off the top of my head. You will learn how to defend vs mutas after you see Flash handle the best Zergs without losing anything over and over. Valkonic/fake mech is a totally legit way to play btw. It's just very hard to pull off vs really good players since you have to have timings down pat and scout correctly for allins. But it's easily one if not the best build on a lot of maps so you shouldn't be living in fear playing it unless you normally play in fear of dying to ling allins or w/e. | ||
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
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DreaM)XeRO
Korea (South)4667 Posts
pro games always inspire me to play better, and i take tips from the pro's. | ||
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quirinus
Croatia2489 Posts
Next, maybe cut scv production for a short time and put a few extra turrets. It's better to put 2 more turrets than die to mutas. Take a look at some of Idra's earlier games (don't know if he still does it), he sometimes put even 5 or so turrets at his natural. As you get better, you'll need less turrets. You might know most of this, but it's good to remind you, or draw your attention back to something you forgot: When microing against mutas, just keep marines close to turrets and don't attack mutas all the time just because they're flying around. (You need to save marines until you got enough.) 3 medics, don't stim too often. Keep turrets close together so at least 2-3 fire at the same time, yet try to cover as much as possible. 2 Turrets near your rax to prevent mutas killing your new marines. If it's a long way or a choke towards the nat, rally your marines next to the barracks, since it's easy to kill them then. (or put 1 turret there) For the micro, it's like, stim then move a bit away from the mutas, when he goes in to attack you, run towards the mutas and focus fire on 1 muta to kill it, then run away (unless he's standing there ofc) and repeat. Keep marines together so he can't kill them 1 by 1, but try to make a semicircle around the mutas, or at least a line if you can. You might even want to put a bunker at nat instead of 1-2 turrets, since those are sturdier, and also protect against lings. | ||
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YPang
United States4024 Posts
On December 01 2009 07:22 LuckyFool wrote: ok bo5 sometime when we're both on.  there should be stakes too like if I lose I have to join mg. so I have extra motivation to play better, I always play better if its important. not that mg is a bad team!!! I'm just a team dodger for some reason (always have been super picky when it comes to join teams) how about whoever wins plays the grand-master in a bo5.. aka: me. | ||
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andiCR
Costa Rica2273 Posts
its good not to see a rage thread from you Lucky haha, but a "help me on this and this particular things" thread Good luck massing TvZ's! BTW, we're 1-0 atm | ||
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Ganfei
Taiwan1439 Posts
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hooktits
United States972 Posts
ps ret gave me the same advice ^^ | ||
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andiCR
Costa Rica2273 Posts
On December 01 2009 08:28 Ganfei wrote: Wasn't your last blog complaining about B- tosses but now you're pushing B+ tvp? And why do you always slip something about your APM in? why not? | ||
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
And yeah hatchet we should play some again sometime. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
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StorrZerg
United States13910 Posts
On December 01 2009 08:28 Ganfei wrote: Wasn't your last blog complaining about B- tosses but now you're pushing B+ tvp? And why do you always slip something about your APM in? im pretty sure his last blog was complaining about how terrible heartbreak ridge was against tvp and him bitching the map to hell. he has some solid wins against very good tosses on his tsl account too. GL mate, i'd mass zvt you but im terrible. | ||
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Toxic
Canada233 Posts
On December 01 2009 07:32 LuckyFool wrote: it's just jokes but I am going to join a team soon and sprite and toxic could both help my TvZ so much. u ninja edited a little earlier saying ur TvT might not necessarily be better. What u go from ur comp to ur phone in that short amount of time? hmmmm. I think I might see where you are headed As for your T v Z your macro is very solid, i would suggest adding more turrets focusing more on not losing too much and sacrificing a bit of army temporarily. From my playing vs you i think your macro is much superior to mine its just a question of being able to not die to mutas while teching pretty quickly to vessels (3 rax tech) The biggest pain in the ass for a Zerg is a T that is really good at keeping his vessels alive. You also seem to be pretty careless with your units, as I stated to you earlier today i believe the match up is more-so about finesse than anything else. What i'm trying to tell you is that missing that depot may be important, but if it ends up making you lose your army to a single defiler and 4 lurks it's probably not a good trade-off. Keeping those army alive is much more of a pain for the zerg trying to get comfortable off his 4 bases by just not letting him have positional advantage you can screw him over quite hard. Not sure about this one but i'l throw it in, do you use your scanners constantly ? I feel i don't see a lot of blue (could just be me). | ||
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StorrZerg
United States13910 Posts
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
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noojOh
United States755 Posts
seriously do sunken breaks against 3 hatch zergs and get the range and +1 upgrade quickly i win every tvz game now, even late game now because not only does this build work, it'll boost your confidence in tvz lol | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
I have the same kind of problem in my TvZ, my turretplacement never seem to be good and my mnm micro vs mutas most C- players could probably do as good or better. Not the exact same thing but I also have this kind of weird skill gap in my game. My TvZ vs 3hatch is probably around B/B+ level while my TvZ vs 2hatch muta is insta loss vs most B- players and vs anyone with anything resembling muta micro I just die vs 2hatch before I can ever get out of my base. | ||
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