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Well, after getting steamrolled on iCCup on a couple times a cpl days ago on HBR, I thought to myself "isn't there some 4 gate crazy goon rush that will run this right over (early 1 fact timing push)?"
well I was wrong I was thinking about the 4 gate goon rush in PvP. But the more I think about it, on the D/D+ RANKS this would be a wild build to throw at someone. It has like 11 range goons and 2 lots at 6 minutes, which i a time when T normally has 2-4 Vultures, 1-2 Tanks, and 4-6 marines he can push/defend with.
My new goal is to win a game with this same build in PvT on HBR. Imagine the reaction a D player will do when I throw down my 2nd pylon on 12.... and build gas on 16.
I think I can make it work if I send my scouting probe to mine out the 0 min in the 3rd base right after he does his initial scout.
So I will keep you updated, I might try it in a bit!
 
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Anything works at the D/D+ level. I'm sure this strat could work. if the terran just goes normal FD terran and doesn't adapt to your huge goon numbers and take advantage of your lack of observers.
But as far as all in builds against FD terran goes, this probably wouldn't be my first choice...
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So wait, you're gonna beat an FD (1 fact timing push? I can't think of anything else, maybe strong FD) by making FOUR gateways. FOUR of them. Then make 11 goons and 2 zealots to beat 1 tank 6 marines? I think you're going to want to rethink your build, because it's simply going to hit way too late.
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I think when the terran sees that you don't have an expansion and have a ridiculous amount of goons he'll just mine up like crazy and your bulid will be gg'd
I doubt this build would work on anybody who has thoughts.
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On November 22 2009 07:24 Adeny wrote:
So wait, you're gonna beat an FD (1 fact timing push? I can't think of anything else, maybe strong FD) by making FOUR gateways. FOUR of them. Then make 11 goons and 2 zealots to beat 1 tank 6 marines? I think you're going to want to rethink your build, because it's simply going to hit way too late.
I should have noted I am doing this for the fun factor more than ne thing. Plus the strongest part of my game is my dragoon micro. I'm not doin it for a pile of wins, just somethin to keep it fresh.
Hell I mean cmon I have won with Sair/DT in PvT at the D Levels, it can work! lol
Plus imagine if the other player does not know PvP builds, he will either think I'm b.net newb or just not have a clue what is going on.
I know it's not a top strat but I like to keep it orginal. There is more to SC for me than pts on iCCup.
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Go for it! If it doesn't work you always have plan B: DTs.
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On November 22 2009 07:45 Nytefish wrote:
Go for it! If it doesn't work you always have plan B: DTs.
lol tru and I have won prolly 40% of my games with 1-2 dt's.
I played nothing but campaign, lans, or vs comp with no clue of what micro/macro/bo's//apm was until about december of last year. and didn't start playing util this season (got up to about 2600 pts yesterday which was cool!). so I have 10 or so yrs of very bad habits to kick. my macro is almost non-existent (like 24-30 in long games, 35-50 in short ones in BWchart), because i am largely a mouse based player. thus i an control
that's y this build is appealing to me, it forces a low-econ game. at a minimum I can turn it into a righteous contain because HBR has no high ground for the T to work with, if anything I will have it. so i can turn this into a mad contain and do something wild like DT drop if I know i can't break the main. i like playing micro battles, not macro.
again this is just for fun not a real strategy, thus y it's in the blogs not the strat section, i would never work on higher level i'm sure.
and also i'm not using this as a counter for FD, i'm going to use it when i decide to no matter what the opponent does. the cool thing with this BO and HBR is it gets a 2 really fast zealots for proxy defense and also the terran is unlikely to do a early 1 or 2 vulture rush. most of the games i play the T does not leave thier base until a tank is out, or they have 3+ vultures which is too late at that point.
vultures wont be able to break the main as i'll have 1-3 goons and 2 zealots with no expansion at thta point so i can clog the choke.
and an early attack based off the tank will be crazy underpowered vs 7-11 goons and 2 zealots.
now if they do something like 2 factory mine/speed maybe there could be a problem but that's a tricky build that you don't see much as d level.
idk just a cool random thing to challenge myself with.
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On November 22 2009 07:28 StarN wrote:
I think when the terran sees that you don't have an expansion and have a ridiculous amount of goons he'll just mine up like crazy and your bulid will be gg'd
I doubt this build would work on anybody who has thoughts.
he did say D... not many of us have actual thoughts, no time between trying to macro with <100 apm!
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On November 22 2009 08:10 kerpal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2009 07:28 StarN wrote:
I think when the terran sees that you don't have an expansion and have a ridiculous amount of goons he'll just mine up like crazy and your bulid will be gg'd
I doubt this build would work on anybody who has thoughts. he did say D... not many of us have actual thoughts, no time between trying to macro with <100 apm!
the d ranks do allow for some fun games for sure.
i contained a T for like 15 mins in his main on dest once. with like a total of 6 dt's... He broke the contain and i had like 4-5 bases up and running or sumitn like that
contained a T so hard in his nat on HBR that he ended up runnign out of mins and I had like 6 bases. that's the game i decided to make a ass-ton of archons at one point. i had like 6-8 gates just pumping HT's. i ended up with like 20 archons at some point.
actually contained a guy so hard with sair/dt in PvT that i was using Sairs to attack his science vessels and scout his base all game. i had his bad habit of going sair/dt for some reason in PvT when i started. My first BO i used was a DT FE. I had no idea what to actually do if the dt's didn't auto-win. so i would contain with sair/dt cause i was so lost lol. and it worked like 2-3 times too.
man i'm going to miss d ranks if i ever get to a C or higher level!
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On November 22 2009 07:28 StarN wrote:
I think when the terran sees that you don't have an expansion and have a ridiculous amount of goons he'll just mine up like crazy and your bulid will be gg'd
I doubt this build would work on anybody who has thoughts.
There is no reason why the terran would see either of those things. Hiding your goon numbers and denying a scouting scv are pretty easy to do.
I'm not saying the build will work, I'm just saying it wont fail for the reasons you stated.
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By the way if you're doing something crazy like this you might as well proxy the extra gateways.
What I mean is, not use the PvP version, but just make it look like 1 or 2 gate expo (pylon in nat, block scout, etc.) Then proxy your other gateways. He shouldn't scout it because it'll be past the initial "cheese phase".
The cheese phase never ends though.
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It will fail to mines though. no obs means you gotta be very very very careful anytime you wanna move somewhere which gives him time to get his shit in position. It's actually pretty easy to win with 4gate goon if they go siege expo but if they do 2fac vults you're fucked.
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Real men proxy 4gate.
But yeah mines will make this hurt. Hope you upload a replay though.
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probably better to just do 2 gate with a shuttle to elevator, since he'll have siege.mines to cockblock goons at the front completely..
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On November 22 2009 08:29 tossinYoSalad wrote:
It will fail to mines though. no obs means you gotta be very very very careful anytime you wanna move somewhere which gives him time to get his shit in position. It's actually pretty easy to win with 4gate goon if they go siege expo but if they do 2fac vults you're fucked.
it's defintly not a auto-win but i am very good with mine dragging. with dt's i think my record is like 13 mines with one dt,
my goon mine dragging is great in a low-econ game like this would have to be for it to work. in a one base scernario i can micro goons at about 185-200 APM, i just like it and have practiced with them alot. on a 3-4 base macro war however my goon micro sux cause i lose track of them, i'm only 85-100 apm average.
and alot of d's siege expo on HBR oddly enuff. seems to me like a bad map for it but i could be wrong i'm not a Terran player.
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On November 22 2009 07:02 Diamondback2 wrote:
Well, after getting steamrolled on iCCup on a couple times a cpl days ago on HBR, I thought to myself "isn't there some 4 gate crazy goon rush that will run this right over (early 1 fact timing push)?"
what is this 1fac timing push you are talking about?
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On November 22 2009 08:51 Piste wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2009 07:02 Diamondback2 wrote:
Well, after getting steamrolled on iCCup on a couple times a cpl days ago on HBR, I thought to myself "isn't there some 4 gate crazy goon rush that will run this right over (early 1 fact timing push)?"
what is this 1fac timing push you are talking about?
i'm not sure. it's when the terran attacks with either:
3-4 vultures
1 tank
3-4 marines
or
2-3 vultures
2 tanks
3-4 marines
i normally see it when i 12 nexus, but l8ly i have been seeing it alot. might be a FD of some sorts?
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On November 22 2009 08:55 Diamondback2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2009 08:51 Piste wrote:On November 22 2009 07:02 Diamondback2 wrote:
Well, after getting steamrolled on iCCup on a couple times a cpl days ago on HBR, I thought to myself "isn't there some 4 gate crazy goon rush that will run this right over (early 1 fact timing push)?"
what is this 1fac timing push you are talking about? i'm not sure. it's when the terran attacks with either: 3-4 vultures 1 tank 3-4 marines or 2-3 vultures 2 tanks 3-4 marines i normally see it when i 12 nexus, but l8ly i have been seeing it alot. might be a FD of some sorts?
That might be a FD or strong FD.
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EPT
