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Hey guys I need some advice on engineering/career stuff...
I'm a freshman in the first semester of college so I have some flexibility about what I want to major, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to do premed (i think im going to grad school for md-phd or some biomedically related phd). That leaves a lot of options for undergrad, but I've always really enjoyed math/physics in high school and a few uni classes that I have taken (before college).
Thing is, where I go to school at least it seems like all the math/physics people are so tuned into the material that they just get things instantly and have a really good grasp of the conceptual side...I did fine in ap physics/math, uni physics, and high school calc III/IV, but I feel like I don't just "get" the material as much as other kids. Either way, the subjects are pretty far from the biomed type material I want to get into in the long run...
What the math/physics preference has done is draw me toward engineering...It seems like a really fun and interesting thing to do. So for undergrad, I'm pretty psyched and set to go engineering. The question is which?
Orginally I thought I would go electrical because I'm decent with CS, like computers, and did well in university intro computer science and electrical engineering. This was mostly before I decided I wanted to end up in the bio research field, so I was fine with ending up in ele research. After working at the NIH over the summer though, working on a biophysics project (through a connection X.X), I realized I enjoyed the material, objectives, and lifestyle of the biomed field...I worked there 2 months and wanted by the end to end up there for good.
So for a brief period I was like ok I'll do electrical/premed and keep my options open...But then I realized that electrical doesn't really work with premed too much (should have seen that coming...besides neuro, which is a super technical application). I looked into other engineerings and it looked like chemical made a lot of sense...lots of class overlap and also a specialization of the chem e department for biochem. Sounds great right?
I'm unsure though now because the material in chemical engineering seems really technical. (I guess all engineering is really technical though...but the pure math/sciences are either intimidating or boring T.T) Right now I'm taking intro to chem engineering and we're doing like flow rates and reaction balances and moving into gas stuff and it seems like we're learning little pieces of what you would need to go applying chem to industry immediately, and they're presented in a kind of random, disorganized way. Paired wih that, I just discovered how much my school's mechanical engineering program has links to bioengineering as well, so I'm thinking about that.
So...questions...
If I think the engineering subjects are a little technical/boring, should I get out of engineering? (the electrical engineering class I took didnt seem that way, but I hear the real classes are a lot tougher/less fun than the intro classes)
What's mechanical engineering like? Materials engineering? If I were to go mechanical the bio-links are subclassed inside the materials specialization. Is materials really technical? Would it be more math/physics oriented, without having to be a genius to do well?
This is a lot more specific but...how do mechanical and chemical approach bio, and where would you end up research wise with either approach?
How about premed? Does anything in undergrad re:discipline really matter for med school?
I'll talk to my advisor about this too, but I was wondering if you guys (a lot of TL'ers are engineers right?) could give me some advice. I hope this blog wasn't too walloftextboring T.T and appreciate any perspective, especially from engineers.
 
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
edited for paragraphing - walls of text are daunting man!
I'm no engineer unfortunately =[ and as a mathematician I look down on you lol
hope someone can be of assistance to you!
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Sorry about that >.< I didnt preview and added spacing with my own edit right as you did haha
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United States24615 Posts
On October 21 2009 07:23 Plexa wrote:
I'm no engineer unfortunately =[ and as a mathematician I look down on you lol
Attitude!?
Mathematicians work with numbers, letters, theorems, etc, and learn how to solve hypothetical math problems (obviously).
Physicists model real world situations into mathematics and then use the mathematical techniques developed by mathematicians to solve the mathematical equations (often). Then they interpret the results and end up with something useful.
Engineers take those useful results from the physicists and create physical systems/equipment that accomplish real life tasks.
This is an oversimplified chain, but for any one member to look down on another is very foolish (I don't think you really look down on him though :p I have too much respect for you to believe that).
OP, I was physics rather than engineering, but I'd strongly suggest you only do engineering if you are willing to pour your heart/soul into it as it's a huge bitch of a major most places. I'm all for combing two different fields to specialize post-college though so think about how you would use your undergraduate experience/credentials to further your career opportunities in addition to what you are purely interested in.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Of course I don't look down on him micronesia 
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United States24615 Posts
On October 21 2009 07:37 Plexa wrote:Of course I don't look down on him micronesia
Yeah but there actually is a lot of tension between these three groups of people in academia... it's kinda hard to believe it exists at such a level but it does 
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Yea well as an Anthropologist I look down on all your equation, problem solving, letters and numbers mumbo jumbo.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On October 21 2009 07:38 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2009 07:37 Plexa wrote:Of course I don't look down on him micronesia Yeah but there actually is a lot of tension between these three groups of people in academia... it's kinda hard to believe it exists at such a level but it does
so true =[
although at my univ the tension between the departments isnt that bad compared to the other univs! for instance we have a kickass math/engineering biology unit 
anyway, we digress from the topic at hand!
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Why not just do biomedical engineering....?
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Hi, I am currently in my 3rd undergraduate year in chemical engineering.
"Chemical engineering graduates who take several electives in the biological sciences have a strong record of success in gaining medical school admission."
"Some students took elective courses in biochemistry and microbiology and got jobs with small but rapidly growing biotechnology firms"
this is taken from one of my textbooks, you may have it if you have bought some books already for first year. I really think chem eng would be the best engineering to take if you want to pursue either a career in the bio-chem research field. I think you absolutely need organic chemistry to apply to med school and that is a required course for chemical engineers to take ( at least for my school it is ).
The chemistry courses you take and other courses dealing with mass transfer will probably serve you well in a bio-chem field, and would be much more appealing on your resume than mechanical engineering. while chemEng and mechEng are similar in some areas, mechanical focuses more on physics based material, as opposed to chemistry.
I think taking premed would be more useful than engineering if you 100% want to go to medical school though. While after getting a degree in engineering you will have developed your mind to think efficiently and solve problems, you cant really use the specific things you learned. in premed you would learn Physiology and other biology type things that is useful in understanding how the human body works. I would imagine if someone thinks working in medicine is their career path choice, then they would enjoy biology/pre-med more than engineering, as they are two really different paths.
The best advice I could give though is to talk to the deans of all the engineering departments your interesting and find out the requirements to apply to medical school. Try and find someone working in the bio-chem field to see if its possible to branch into the field with an engineering degree.
hope this helps.
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On October 21 2009 07:56 ocho wrote:
Why not just do biomedical engineering....?
QFT, at the university I go to, biomed is a very electronic based area as it focuses on the basic electronic courses and then moves on to imaging and sensors. They also incorporate some chemistry and kineseology supplement your knowledge. If you want to do pre-med theres also the option of that built into the bio-med program which will includes some biology/organic chem so that you can meet your pre req's for med school.
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I'm a 4th year mechanical engineering student, and the only engineering major i've ever met who was pre-med was Bio-e. Most pre-med students I know are Biochemistry or Plant Bio, or Genetics, or occasionally something random like philosophy. Engineering is usually a pretty hard major, so if you don't plan to work as a engineer (or something similar) after graduating, it seems strange to major in it.
I would normally think your school's materials program would be way closer to Bio-e than ME because a lot of Bio-E is developing synthetic materials for surgery and stuff. ME is really broad, but it focuses on controlling/designing systems that are constantly changing. (cars, aerospace, etc.)
If you find engineering classes too technical... they'll only get more technical. Are you not interested in Bio/Chem? Because those classes are going to be the most relevant to med school.
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Hmm with respect to med school, I really plan on going into bio research in the long run...my plan is to do either phd in some biomed related subject or get an md/phd. Maybe mol bio is the major for me? Pure chem is too theoretical for me i think...I guess my biggest problem is finding a balance between theoretical and technical stuff that I'm comfortable with.
My school does not have biomedical engineering T.T why did i not go to hopkins =/
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I'm 2nd year Civil, but I have a lot of courses with other engineering strains. Be prepared - the amount of work you will have to do is a bitch and a half.
I have a friend in pre-med - he actually feels sorry for me and the work I have to do. Honestly though, I do not think that I could handle all of the biology he has to do. We are wired differently, I guess.
If you can handle the engineering stuff, but you can't do the medical stuff - at least you have a very solid degree already. If you go for the pre-med, and you don't get all the way through, you're in a rough spot. I think that it would be better if you did the engineering first, for that reason.
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Calgary25969 Posts
if you are going into med school, dont be a hero - take something fucking easy that you are good at so you can get a high grade. now is not the time to take the high road and something "challenging that you enjoy".
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On October 21 2009 08:47 Chill wrote:
if you are going into med school, dont be a hero - take something fucking easy that you are good at so you can get a high grade. now is not the time to take the high road and something "challenging that you enjoy".
Agreed to full extent! Look, you only have this short lived 4 years of college life and trying to spend at least 75% on engineering isn't the best option especially if you aren't planning to do engineering in the end. It's a huge commitment and you won't be seeing flopping As anytime soon on your grades unless you're a super genius of most people (and I mean even within the groups of engineering students). Just do something easy, live up your life and have fun!!! That's what college is all about!! ^_^
That being said, I will warn you and all potential engineering students (and I know some of you can testify here) that this field isn't for everyone. As a former engineering student, I know how this system works and there are one of those "weed" out classes whose purpose really seem to make sure the theory of Darwinism is at hands... obviously as you see, I wasn't the fittest out of them all (nor close, which is why I'm happily a broadcast journalism major), so think wisely.... a best example would be my former engineering school where 150 freshmen started out as joyful engineering students, and by the time of graduation, there are about 20-30 remaining as the loyal beings of engineering.....
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Note: I'm not an engineer (chemist/biochemist), however, I do have reasonable knowledge on the subject due to sibling and father Engineering prof.
First of all I recommend doing what interests you most and fits with your future career plans otherwise you'll get worn down in undergrad pretty fast.
In terms of medical school, all those options are fine for getting into med as long as you have good marks. Unfortunately engineering is generally tougher and harder to outperform, so ultimately if you aren't a top student it might be harder to get in (I still do know quite a few engineers who are now in med school). If you really do want to go to get into med school as an engineer I would probably recommend chemical or biomedical since they will help you prepare the most (eg. MCAT), and likely will require to take courses that are required for med school application.
In terms of doing a PhD in BioMed or Mol Bio etc., I think any of the options you listed are still fine, although once again I would recommend chemical or biomed eng. since they will be most useful. From my experience a good background in physics/math/chemistry is invaluable even in the field of biology. Having a good knowledge of these things will help you to understand many things that pure biologists cannont grasp. As an example, one of my professors did a PhD in physics and now does bioanalytical/cancer research.
Honestly, if you feel you like and can handle (ie. do well) in engineering I would recommend going for it. Worst case scenario is that you come out with an engineering degree which is much better than a pre.med or anything else really. Engineering will also teach you skills for approaching and solving problems which are invaluable and good transferable skills. An engineer should not have a problem pursuing a bio research career, and you will actual imo be at an advantage. Preferably though take an engineering that will teach/apply to med/bio ie. chemistry/biomed/etc.
Hope this helps
edit: lol, if your going into an engineering program like the one the previous poster was in, then maybe scrap what I said; however, that being said, I don't believe most engineering programs are like that unless you're at MIT, CIT??/
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I'm a 3rd year undergraduate engineer in Infrastructure engineering - which is probably not a field of your interest - but as a fellow undergrad engineer, I want to share some of my ideas about what you said.
The people above me (as in the replies above me) speak from experience and are probably correct.
- To get into med school, you need good marks (in Canada, we use both GPA and averages as well as the med school exam thing) so doing an undergrad in engineering is not helping your chances (because eng. marks are usually not exceptional - it's belled often but it's a cluster around low 70's unless you're really, really smart and good at exams).
- If you find some of your courses boring, it may be an indication that you might want to start looking elsewhere. That being said, despite some courses being boring, you should stay in a program where you see your future at. Listening to digital logics might not be your best interest but you might really love working with E&M - both are essentials in any electrical engineering programs.
- Having strengths in math, problem solving, and time management - just few of the many characteristics of an engineer - you might even find interest in another field of engineering. I mean, you're only a freshman and you've got years of opportunities ahead. The "final life choice" does not need to be made here, and swaying in different directions before settling in on one is normal for anybody.
Besides, most engineering programs begin with the fundamentals in first year - calculus, programming, basic physics, engineering design - all of them are applicable in any branch of engineering.
Unless going into med school is a must and you are definitely set on that, I suggest staying in engineering. As some people said above, coming out with an engineering degree (most likely B.A.Sc - bachelor of applied science) is much much better than any other undergrad science degree.
If for any reason you're interested in infrastructure engineering, I'll be glad to explain more about that~
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On October 21 2009 09:25 akevin wrote:
edit: lol, if your going into an engineering program like the one the previous poster was in, then maybe scrap what I said; however, that being said, I don't believe most engineering programs are like that unless you're at MIT, CIT??/
I'm pretty sure engineering has very high attrition rates at pretty much any school. I would wager that MIT, caltech, etc actually have lower attrition rates than less demanding schools, because they only accept people who have already shown extreme dedication and/or academic apptitude. I go to UCSD and while I don't know the numbers, there are certainly far more people admitted to the engineering programs than graduating.
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On October 21 2009 08:47 Chill wrote:
if you are going into med school, dont be a hero - take something fucking easy that you are good at so you can get a high grade. now is not the time to take the high road and something "challenging that you enjoy".
Yeah, great advice Chill, it would be wonderful for him to enter med school with absolutely no experience in challenging material and no work ethic -_-
There is a reason that people with sociology or philosophy undergrad degrees generally aren't taking very seriously compared to people with engineering or science degrees.
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On October 21 2009 07:23 Plexa wrote:
edited for paragraphing - walls of text are daunting man!
I'm no engineer unfortunately =[ and as a mathematician I look down on you lol
hope someone can be of assistance to you!
Plexa I love you!
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On October 21 2009 10:52 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2009 08:47 Chill wrote:
if you are going into med school, dont be a hero - take something fucking easy that you are good at so you can get a high grade. now is not the time to take the high road and something "challenging that you enjoy". Yeah, great advice Chill, it would be wonderful for him to enter med school with absolutely no experience in challenging material and no work ethic -_- There is a reason that people with sociology or philosophy undergrad degrees generally aren't taking very seriously compared to people with engineering or science degrees.
Agreed. Also going to a crappy university (for easy grades) cannot be taken seriously either.
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On October 21 2009 11:06 illu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2009 10:52 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:On October 21 2009 08:47 Chill wrote:
if you are going into med school, dont be a hero - take something fucking easy that you are good at so you can get a high grade. now is not the time to take the high road and something "challenging that you enjoy". Yeah, great advice Chill, it would be wonderful for him to enter med school with absolutely no experience in challenging material and no work ethic -_- There is a reason that people with sociology or philosophy undergrad degrees generally aren't taking very seriously compared to people with engineering or science degrees. Agreed. Also going to a crappy university (for easy grades) cannot be taken seriously either.
But here's my argument to counter this. All in the end, none of that doesn't matter, how most careers are in modern society, a huge load of jobs are obtained through networking and connections with someone you know or third party, etc. I'm not saying all, and especially med school and being a doctor is a bit different, however, that is how the world works today, and it's even more true here in the United States. That may be the easiest road to finding a job, but at the same time, the hardest if you don't have a source and trying to find one.
I suppose that's where internships and all comes in, and like I said before, that doesn't necessary require all that fancy degree, grades or majors. Do you honestly want to waste that 4 years of undergrad working on your lab reports in lab most of the time?? Or would you rather find time to do some extracurricular activities, relationships, parties, etc with a less pressured workload than engineering? I'm not saying all engineering students are like that, but things do get that tough and you literally won't have much time to do many things you may want to originally do.....
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On October 21 2009 08:47 Chill wrote:
if you are going into med school, dont be a hero - take something fucking easy that you are good at so you can get a high grade. now is not the time to take the high road and something "challenging that you enjoy".
Quoted for truth, take the easy route.
It doesnt matter one bit if you graduate in a social science or whatever that you find easy if you have a good average. There wont be a single engineering or any other career where you will enjoy each and every subject. If you want it not to be too technical, get into a more scientific career, not a technological one such as engineering. You will get bored once you get past the maths, which are rather basic, and you will fail on the rest of the career.
Really, stuff like "i dont go into a social science because its for fags" is the worst mentality you can have. You dont have to prove anything to anybody, especially yourself.
And like another poster said, engineering is no joke. In my school (small private one), for the previous generation, around 100 entered, half of them were gone by the 2nd semester. 8 of them graduated, 2 of them graduated with an average above 9.5
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I went to school for Engineering and actually just getting back into school for a doctorate in engineering. To put it most basic... do you enjoy solving problems? That's what an engineer does... its more of a way of thinking then a profession.
God intro classes are painfully shitty and it only gets worse at first... the classes start ramping up in difficulty and hitting you with heavy theory (the major boring part , typically end of sophomore early junior). But then you actually start seeing how what you are learning is applicable, and most schools have a very relevant senior project to tie it together. Before choosing a particular engineering field, like EE or ME ask yourself if you
1. can you make it through the theory and calculus behind everything
2. is solving and optimizing real life problems what you want to do?
For what its worth, Materials Engineers are the most PAID atm, even higher than Aerospace which is the field I am in.
Pretty generic advice good luck though.
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On October 21 2009 10:52 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2009 08:47 Chill wrote:
if you are going into med school, dont be a hero - take something fucking easy that you are good at so you can get a high grade. now is not the time to take the high road and something "challenging that you enjoy". Yeah, great advice Chill, it would be wonderful for him to enter med school with absolutely no experience in challenging material and no work ethic -_- There is a reason that people with sociology or philosophy undergrad degrees generally aren't taking very seriously compared to people with engineering or science degrees.
There is more to University than grades, there is more to it than having fun, and there is more to it than just studying hard. You need to learn how to be independent, and you need to learn other life skills. University is a trial by fire - it's tougher for some than others, but it's not easy. There's a reason why those people in "sociology" or "philosophy" didn't apply to Engineering, remember :p
In all seriousness - whichever path you choose, make sure you find time to do things you love. I tried out for the school's football team (even though they didn't scout me, other teams did), and, even though I'm not on the team, it was an excellent experience.
I have new found contacts all over the place because of it. In fact, a lot of the bars near the University hire the football players to be bouncers - and anyone they know can get in free (and sometimes a free drink or two as well). I spent the summer coaching a local team, which was helped by some of the contacts in the coaching staff for the University team. There is a lot of cool stuff you can end up doing if you just go out and do something. Networking ftw.
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On October 21 2009 10:52 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2009 08:47 Chill wrote:
if you are going into med school, dont be a hero - take something fucking easy that you are good at so you can get a high grade. now is not the time to take the high road and something "challenging that you enjoy". Yeah, great advice Chill, it would be wonderful for him to enter med school with absolutely no experience in challenging material and no work ethic -_- There is a reason that people with sociology or philosophy undergrad degrees generally aren't taking very seriously compared to people with engineering or science degrees.
Hmm I'm thinking along these lines...I feel like I would be better prepared to deal with med school if I did something along the same line of study. Though mech e is a bit less related I guess...
Also, at the school I go to (Princeton) the engineering classes are really small, like 30-40 people, and the dropout rate is real low. Regarding gpa, princeton is also pretty inflated (though not so much as harvard or yale)...I feel like going social sciences to boost my gpa is a bad call bc im much more a math/science person than a social sciences person...I'd probably do pretty shitty and not enjoy it, whereas its not really that impossible to come off chem e with a reasonable gpa.
A less reasonable part of me also wants to fucking ee han timing med school with my l33t 2 groups of mutalisk micro preparation from chem e...I know that's kinda retarded but I do feel like I would be better prepared than going straight in off the orgo I took freshman year of undergrad. The other thing is I'm not really sure 100% if I want to do med school...It's something that seems cool but I could just as well just do a PhD.
Re: social life, I don't think its that big a deal...We alternate 4- and 5- class semesters for engineering here and I'm doing a 5 right now and it is only really painfully work heavy in midterms week (now X.X). Ofc, I am just a freshman...
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what about molecular bio and biochem?
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Electrical engineering is absolutely a viable path. You mentioned neuron stuff, but, at least at my school, nano-technology has fallen squarely into the EE department.
There is potential overlap, even in the theory. Self assembly, networking/systems, computer modeling techniques [matlab], sensors, haptics, robotics, and DSP.
For example, an EE (MEMS specialization) may design a system on a chip, which can sort cells depending on their type. Or one may design an ultrasound head (sensors specialization) or perhaps the hardware and signal processing that constructs the 3D images from that sensor head (DSP specialization).
Of course it really depends on what your goal is. If you want to just become a normal doctor, those things may not apply to you. However, they will give you a broad technical view on life, as I would call it, which can be valuable.
Just remember, some day computers and humans are going to merge, and EE will be in the middle of it when it does.
If you just want to become a doctor, Chem E might work too.
I would recommend that you have some interest in the subject if you choose to pursue it though.
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On October 21 2009 12:20 duckett wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2009 10:52 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:On October 21 2009 08:47 Chill wrote:
if you are going into med school, dont be a hero - take something fucking easy that you are good at so you can get a high grade. now is not the time to take the high road and something "challenging that you enjoy". Yeah, great advice Chill, it would be wonderful for him to enter med school with absolutely no experience in challenging material and no work ethic -_- There is a reason that people with sociology or philosophy undergrad degrees generally aren't taking very seriously compared to people with engineering or science degrees. Hmm I'm thinking along these lines...I feel like I would be better prepared to deal with med school if I did something along the same line of study. Though mech e is a bit less related I guess... Also, at the school I go to (Princeton) the engineering classes are really small, like 30-40 people, and the dropout rate is real low. Regarding gpa, princeton is also pretty inflated (though not so much as harvard or yale)...I feel like going social sciences to boost my gpa is a bad call bc im much more a math/science person than a social sciences person...I'd probably do pretty shitty and not enjoy it, whereas its not really that impossible to come off chem e with a reasonable gpa. A less reasonable part of me also wants to fucking ee han timing med school with my l33t 2 groups of mutalisk micro preparation from chem e...I know that's kinda retarded but I do feel like I would be better prepared than going straight in off the orgo I took freshman year of undergrad. The other thing is I'm not really sure 100% if I want to do med school...It's something that seems cool but I could just as well just do a PhD. Re: social life, I don't think its that big a deal...We alternate 4- and 5- class semesters for engineering here and I'm doing a 5 right now and it is only really painfully work heavy in midterms week (now X.X). Ofc, I am just a freshman...
I'll tell you right now. Of all the things in all your classes in college, you will probably use about 1% of it. All the biology/engineering you learn will probably get you into 1 week of your first semester at medical school. If you go into graduate school for bio/chem/physics, your college material might take you 2 semesters in. Despite this, I think most graduate schools still require you to take the intro courses, so you really end up having no advantage. If you go into private industry, you'll probably even end up using less than 1% of what you learn. So take Chill's advice.
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On October 21 2009 13:04 gchan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2009 12:20 duckett wrote:On October 21 2009 10:52 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:On October 21 2009 08:47 Chill wrote:
if you are going into med school, dont be a hero - take something fucking easy that you are good at so you can get a high grade. now is not the time to take the high road and something "challenging that you enjoy". Yeah, great advice Chill, it would be wonderful for him to enter med school with absolutely no experience in challenging material and no work ethic -_- There is a reason that people with sociology or philosophy undergrad degrees generally aren't taking very seriously compared to people with engineering or science degrees. Hmm I'm thinking along these lines...I feel like I would be better prepared to deal with med school if I did something along the same line of study. Though mech e is a bit less related I guess... Also, at the school I go to (Princeton) the engineering classes are really small, like 30-40 people, and the dropout rate is real low. Regarding gpa, princeton is also pretty inflated (though not so much as harvard or yale)...I feel like going social sciences to boost my gpa is a bad call bc im much more a math/science person than a social sciences person...I'd probably do pretty shitty and not enjoy it, whereas its not really that impossible to come off chem e with a reasonable gpa. A less reasonable part of me also wants to fucking ee han timing med school with my l33t 2 groups of mutalisk micro preparation from chem e...I know that's kinda retarded but I do feel like I would be better prepared than going straight in off the orgo I took freshman year of undergrad. The other thing is I'm not really sure 100% if I want to do med school...It's something that seems cool but I could just as well just do a PhD. Re: social life, I don't think its that big a deal...We alternate 4- and 5- class semesters for engineering here and I'm doing a 5 right now and it is only really painfully work heavy in midterms week (now X.X). Ofc, I am just a freshman... I'll tell you right now. Of all the things in all your classes in college, you will probably use about 1% of it. All the biology/engineering you learn will probably get you into 1 week of your first semester at medical school. If you go into graduate school for bio/chem/physics, your college material might take you 2 semesters in. Despite this, I think most graduate schools still require you to take the intro courses, so you really end up having no advantage. If you go into private industry, you'll probably even end up using less than 1% of what you learn. So take Chill's advice.
The whole point of college is to expand your mind and improve your learning capability. The actual material you learn is just a side affect. If you choose an easy major, the material you learn will probably be useless AND your thinking and problem solving skills will hardly be improved. Then, when you get to med school, you'll be surrounded by a bunch of people who worked their asses off in their undergrad and won't be able to keep up with how quick they pick up things and the way they study.
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I'm a CS major and I'm extremely interested in getting a Math major too! I just love science and all that shit (never been good at humanities, art, etc.)
btw
+ Show Spoiler +
^^
edit: broken spoiler
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(Rather than make my own blog I'll try posting here first, hijack?)
I'm in my first semester at the University of Denver, it's a medium sized private school (about 5000 undergrad) and engineering is one of their smallest programs. They only offer computer science, electrical engineering, and mechanical engineering which isn't a big deal to me because I'm thinking ME anyway. Does anyone know how big a deal it is if I'm getting my engineering degree from a school which isn't known for their program? I mean, I assume I am still being taught at an adequate level but I don't have anything to compare it to obviously so I don't really know. Also, the way they do it here we don't decide on our specific field of engineering major until the start of our junior year, that isn't normal is it?
I could have gone to the University of Kansas (KU) which is a big public school with a big, and well ranked engineering program, but that's only 45 minutes from my house and half my high school goes there so I couldn't bring myself to do it.
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On October 21 2009 13:20 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2009 13:04 gchan wrote:On October 21 2009 12:20 duckett wrote:On October 21 2009 10:52 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:On October 21 2009 08:47 Chill wrote:
if you are going into med school, dont be a hero - take something fucking easy that you are good at so you can get a high grade. now is not the time to take the high road and something "challenging that you enjoy". Yeah, great advice Chill, it would be wonderful for him to enter med school with absolutely no experience in challenging material and no work ethic -_- There is a reason that people with sociology or philosophy undergrad degrees generally aren't taking very seriously compared to people with engineering or science degrees. Hmm I'm thinking along these lines...I feel like I would be better prepared to deal with med school if I did something along the same line of study. Though mech e is a bit less related I guess... Also, at the school I go to (Princeton) the engineering classes are really small, like 30-40 people, and the dropout rate is real low. Regarding gpa, princeton is also pretty inflated (though not so much as harvard or yale)...I feel like going social sciences to boost my gpa is a bad call bc im much more a math/science person than a social sciences person...I'd probably do pretty shitty and not enjoy it, whereas its not really that impossible to come off chem e with a reasonable gpa. A less reasonable part of me also wants to fucking ee han timing med school with my l33t 2 groups of mutalisk micro preparation from chem e...I know that's kinda retarded but I do feel like I would be better prepared than going straight in off the orgo I took freshman year of undergrad. The other thing is I'm not really sure 100% if I want to do med school...It's something that seems cool but I could just as well just do a PhD. Re: social life, I don't think its that big a deal...We alternate 4- and 5- class semesters for engineering here and I'm doing a 5 right now and it is only really painfully work heavy in midterms week (now X.X). Ofc, I am just a freshman... I'll tell you right now. Of all the things in all your classes in college, you will probably use about 1% of it. All the biology/engineering you learn will probably get you into 1 week of your first semester at medical school. If you go into graduate school for bio/chem/physics, your college material might take you 2 semesters in. Despite this, I think most graduate schools still require you to take the intro courses, so you really end up having no advantage. If you go into private industry, you'll probably even end up using less than 1% of what you learn. So take Chill's advice. The whole point of college is to expand your mind and improve your learning capability. The actual material you learn is just a side affect. If you choose an easy major, the material you learn will probably be useless AND your thinking and problem solving skills will hardly be improved. Then, when you get to med school, you'll be surrounded by a bunch of people who worked their asses off in their undergrad and won't be able to keep up with how quick they pick up things and the way they study.
You don't need a hard major to develop studying and learning skills. I graduated with both a hard science and a social science degree, and honestly, my social science degree challenged my ability to think a lot more than my hard science one. The way a lot of the more challenging science majors are set up now focus a lot more on memorization than on critical thinking skills; this is not entirely the major's fault as difficult majors tend to have a lot more material. And to add on top of that, most engineer/science majors tend to underdevelop communication skills which is vitally important in any career path you take. I'm not saying that there are no benefits to taking a science/engineering major, but I'm just skills/knowledge you develop is not worth it. There are a lot of other things you could be doing with your time in college to hone skills relevant to a PhD path or biomedical path.
Note: I've never done anything engineering, so some of the science stuff I spout might not be fully relevant to engineers.
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+ Show Spoiler +
<3. One of the most important reasons for studying science, be it math, physics, engineering or w/e, is to gain a larger understanding of the genius of xkcd xD.
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duckett, do you want to research biology, or medicine?? If it's the latter, it doesn't matter much what you study. If you want to seriously contribute to the former, I recommend mol bio or biochem...
or computer science... bioinformatics... or math... systems theory... ;D
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On October 21 2009 15:09 gchan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2009 13:20 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:On October 21 2009 13:04 gchan wrote:On October 21 2009 12:20 duckett wrote:On October 21 2009 10:52 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:On October 21 2009 08:47 Chill wrote:
if you are going into med school, dont be a hero - take something fucking easy that you are good at so you can get a high grade. now is not the time to take the high road and something "challenging that you enjoy". Yeah, great advice Chill, it would be wonderful for him to enter med school with absolutely no experience in challenging material and no work ethic -_- There is a reason that people with sociology or philosophy undergrad degrees generally aren't taking very seriously compared to people with engineering or science degrees. Hmm I'm thinking along these lines...I feel like I would be better prepared to deal with med school if I did something along the same line of study. Though mech e is a bit less related I guess... Also, at the school I go to (Princeton) the engineering classes are really small, like 30-40 people, and the dropout rate is real low. Regarding gpa, princeton is also pretty inflated (though not so much as harvard or yale)...I feel like going social sciences to boost my gpa is a bad call bc im much more a math/science person than a social sciences person...I'd probably do pretty shitty and not enjoy it, whereas its not really that impossible to come off chem e with a reasonable gpa. A less reasonable part of me also wants to fucking ee han timing med school with my l33t 2 groups of mutalisk micro preparation from chem e...I know that's kinda retarded but I do feel like I would be better prepared than going straight in off the orgo I took freshman year of undergrad. The other thing is I'm not really sure 100% if I want to do med school...It's something that seems cool but I could just as well just do a PhD. Re: social life, I don't think its that big a deal...We alternate 4- and 5- class semesters for engineering here and I'm doing a 5 right now and it is only really painfully work heavy in midterms week (now X.X). Ofc, I am just a freshman... I'll tell you right now. Of all the things in all your classes in college, you will probably use about 1% of it. All the biology/engineering you learn will probably get you into 1 week of your first semester at medical school. If you go into graduate school for bio/chem/physics, your college material might take you 2 semesters in. Despite this, I think most graduate schools still require you to take the intro courses, so you really end up having no advantage. If you go into private industry, you'll probably even end up using less than 1% of what you learn. So take Chill's advice. The whole point of college is to expand your mind and improve your learning capability. The actual material you learn is just a side affect. If you choose an easy major, the material you learn will probably be useless AND your thinking and problem solving skills will hardly be improved. Then, when you get to med school, you'll be surrounded by a bunch of people who worked their asses off in their undergrad and won't be able to keep up with how quick they pick up things and the way they study. You don't need a hard major to develop studying and learning skills. I graduated with both a hard science and a social science degree, and honestly, my social science degree challenged my ability to think a lot more than my hard science one. The way a lot of the more challenging science majors are set up now focus a lot more on memorization than on critical thinking skills; this is not entirely the major's fault as difficult majors tend to have a lot more material. And to add on top of that, most engineer/science majors tend to underdevelop communication skills which is vitally important in any career path you take. I'm not saying that there are no benefits to taking a science/engineering major, but I'm just skills/knowledge you develop is not worth it. There are a lot of other things you could be doing with your time in college to hone skills relevant to a PhD path or biomedical path. Note: I've never done anything engineering, so some of the science stuff I spout might not be fully relevant to engineers.
I'm glad you admit that you have no idea what you're talking about at the end of your post there, because you have no idea what you're talking about. Engineering is not a hard science.
And how much free time you have in engineering is totally up to you. I'm in my last year of engineering and I have 2 days off a week (plus weekend) if I strategically skip certain classes.
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On October 21 2009 14:27 Jonoman92 wrote:
(Rather than make my own blog I'll try posting here first, hijack?)
I'm in my first semester at the University of Denver, it's a medium sized private school (about 5000 undergrad) and engineering is one of their smallest programs. They only offer computer science, electrical engineering, and mechanical engineering which isn't a big deal to me because I'm thinking ME anyway. Does anyone know how big a deal it is if I'm getting my engineering degree from a school which isn't known for their program? I mean, I assume I am still being taught at an adequate level but I don't have anything to compare it to obviously so I don't really know. Also, the way they do it here we don't decide on our specific field of engineering major until the start of our junior year, that isn't normal is it?
I could have gone to the University of Kansas (KU) which is a big public school with a big, and well ranked engineering program, but that's only 45 minutes from my house and half my high school goes there so I couldn't bring myself to do it.
I don't think it matters if you get good grades. Then you can continue studying if you wish and get in a better school from grades alone. If you have bad grades however, then i guess it would have been better if you had gone to KU
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On October 21 2009 11:29 Pufftrees wrote:
For what its worth, Materials Engineers are the most PAID atm, even higher than Aerospace which is the field I am in.
Pretty generic advice good luck though.
Really? Source? That would make me happy since I'm pretty much in a Materials Engineering program.
On October 21 2009 14:27 Jonoman92 wrote:
(Rather than make my own blog I'll try posting here first, hijack?)
I'm in my first semester at the University of Denver, it's a medium sized private school (about 5000 undergrad) and engineering is one of their smallest programs. They only offer computer science, electrical engineering, and mechanical engineering which isn't a big deal to me because I'm thinking ME anyway. Does anyone know how big a deal it is if I'm getting my engineering degree from a school which isn't known for their program? I mean, I assume I am still being taught at an adequate level but I don't have anything to compare it to obviously so I don't really know. Also, the way they do it here we don't decide on our specific field of engineering major until the start of our junior year, that isn't normal is it?
I could have gone to the University of Kansas (KU) which is a big public school with a big, and well ranked engineering program, but that's only 45 minutes from my house and half my high school goes there so I couldn't bring myself to do it.
I think in the context of undergraduate schools with similar prestige, there is no real difference.
On October 21 2009 12:57 fight_or_flight wrote:
Electrical engineering is absolutely a viable path. You mentioned neuron stuff, but, at least at my school, nano-technology has fallen squarely into the EE department.
In my school, Nanotechnology Engineering is under the umbrella of EE, CHE and Chemistry. Do your other programs not deal with this at all?
To the OP, if you want to go into something Bio related, it may be wiser to just go into the Sciences. That being said, you still have the option of going into Med school or into a Bio graduate program later on after an undergraduate degree in Engineering. However it's good to have a strong Bio/Chem foundation in these subjects and Engineering may not give or allow you to gain that foundation (unless your school has something like Biochemical Engineering or Biomedical Engineering).
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On October 21 2009 07:38 Slaughter wrote:Yea well as an Anthropologist I look down on all your equation, problem solving, letters and numbers mumbo jumbo.
Well as an IT engineer, I promise I won't read any anthropology book ever if you stop using computers.
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On October 21 2009 15:09 gchan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2009 13:20 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:On October 21 2009 13:04 gchan wrote:On October 21 2009 12:20 duckett wrote:On October 21 2009 10:52 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:On October 21 2009 08:47 Chill wrote:
if you are going into med school, dont be a hero - take something fucking easy that you are good at so you can get a high grade. now is not the time to take the high road and something "challenging that you enjoy". Yeah, great advice Chill, it would be wonderful for him to enter med school with absolutely no experience in challenging material and no work ethic -_- There is a reason that people with sociology or philosophy undergrad degrees generally aren't taking very seriously compared to people with engineering or science degrees. Hmm I'm thinking along these lines...I feel like I would be better prepared to deal with med school if I did something along the same line of study. Though mech e is a bit less related I guess... Also, at the school I go to (Princeton) the engineering classes are really small, like 30-40 people, and the dropout rate is real low. Regarding gpa, princeton is also pretty inflated (though not so much as harvard or yale)...I feel like going social sciences to boost my gpa is a bad call bc im much more a math/science person than a social sciences person...I'd probably do pretty shitty and not enjoy it, whereas its not really that impossible to come off chem e with a reasonable gpa. A less reasonable part of me also wants to fucking ee han timing med school with my l33t 2 groups of mutalisk micro preparation from chem e...I know that's kinda retarded but I do feel like I would be better prepared than going straight in off the orgo I took freshman year of undergrad. The other thing is I'm not really sure 100% if I want to do med school...It's something that seems cool but I could just as well just do a PhD. Re: social life, I don't think its that big a deal...We alternate 4- and 5- class semesters for engineering here and I'm doing a 5 right now and it is only really painfully work heavy in midterms week (now X.X). Ofc, I am just a freshman... I'll tell you right now. Of all the things in all your classes in college, you will probably use about 1% of it. All the biology/engineering you learn will probably get you into 1 week of your first semester at medical school. If you go into graduate school for bio/chem/physics, your college material might take you 2 semesters in. Despite this, I think most graduate schools still require you to take the intro courses, so you really end up having no advantage. If you go into private industry, you'll probably even end up using less than 1% of what you learn. So take Chill's advice. The whole point of college is to expand your mind and improve your learning capability. The actual material you learn is just a side affect. If you choose an easy major, the material you learn will probably be useless AND your thinking and problem solving skills will hardly be improved. Then, when you get to med school, you'll be surrounded by a bunch of people who worked their asses off in their undergrad and won't be able to keep up with how quick they pick up things and the way they study. You don't need a hard major to develop studying and learning skills. I graduated with both a hard science and a social science degree, and honestly, my social science degree challenged my ability to think a lot more than my hard science one. The way a lot of the more challenging science majors are set up now focus a lot more on memorization than on critical thinking skills; this is not entirely the major's fault as difficult majors tend to have a lot more material. And to add on top of that, most engineer/science majors tend to underdevelop communication skills which is vitally important in any career path you take. I'm not saying that there are no benefits to taking a science/engineering major, but I'm just skills/knowledge you develop is not worth it. There are a lot of other things you could be doing with your time in college to hone skills relevant to a PhD path or biomedical path. Note: I've never done anything engineering, so some of the science stuff I spout might not be fully relevant to engineers.
Ugh you are wrong on so many levels.
Engineering is engineering, NOT science. You have to be able to take theoretical results from science and apply them to real world problems, sometimes using the results in ways that they weren't intended for in the first place. To effectively do this, you have to understand both the theory AND the real world, sometimes with incomplete information and insufficient background (for which you have to make up for with more work and dynamic learning), which is harder.
A good engineering program does NOT involve lots of memorization. The students who try to get by through just memorizing how to do different kinds of problems either get weeded out in the beginning or barely scrape by at the end. Engineering is about figuring out the solutions to problems you've never seen before, using a combination of techniques and information you have learned in the past, often requiring innovation. I.e., a MAJOR focus on critical thinking skills.
You are partly correct regarding the issue of a lack of development of communication skills. However, it isn't as bad as you think. In my undergraduate, I had at least one group project every term, and often 5 or 6. Also, we were required to take technical writing courses and also had to take several other subjects that required essays, so those skills were somewhat developed. However, communicating your results and thoughts is really the easy part: the hard part is being able to do the work in the first place.
All of these benefits come at a cost, of course. Engineering programs are very difficult, but they whips your mind into shape much like being on a difficult sport team, like swimming or football, whips your body into shape.
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Calgary25969 Posts
Dude, just please listen to me. All these kids replying are pie-in-the-sky dreamers who think there's something to be gained by taking the most difficult route through. Yes, there is respect in that, but it's certainly not worth jeopardizing your end goal. Keep your eye on the prize. You want to go to medical school. Take the route that gives you the best chance of getting there. Obviously there is some cost/benefit analysis, like you can take the 2nd or 3rd easiest way of getting there if you find that area of study more interesting.
In this situation you sound like you aren't sure. You're just like "Oh, I enjoy science and math and think I would enjoy engineering." DO NOT TAKE ENGINEERING AS A PREREQUISITE FOR MEDICAL SCHOOL FOR A FLEETING FEELING LIKE THAT.
As someone said above in response to criticism to this idea; Just because the material is easy for you doesn't mean you aren't capable of having a strong work ethic. Classes aren't your life, and I'm not sure how medical school applications are, but I'd imagine if your time is free you are expected to have filled it studying for MCATs and being part of the community through clubs and volunteering. You can be busy in school if you want, and classes teach you the least about life in university.
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On October 22 2009 09:28 Chill wrote:
Dude, just please listen to me. All these kids replying are pie-in-the-sky dreamers who think there's something to be gained by taking the most difficult route through. Yes, there is respect in that, but it's certainly not worth jeopardizing your end goal. Keep your eye on the prize. You want to go to medical school. Take the route that gives you the best chance of getting there. Obviously there is some cost/benefit analysis, like you can take the 2nd or 3rd easiest way of getting there if you find that area of study more interesting.
In this situation you sound like you aren't sure. You're just like "Oh, I enjoy science and math and think I would enjoy engineering." DO NOT TAKE ENGINEERING AS A PREREQUISITE FOR MEDICAL SCHOOL FOR A FLEETING FEELING LIKE THAT.
As someone said above in response to criticism to this idea; Just because the material is easy for you doesn't mean you aren't capable of having a strong work ethic. Classes aren't your life, and I'm not sure how medical school applications are, but I'd imagine if your time is free you are expected to have filled it studying for MCATs and being part of the community through clubs and volunteering. You can be busy in school if you want, and classes teach you the least about life in university.
Alright Chill, I'm digging this advice. It's weird because I had thought of engineering as like a certainty for me and then only came up with "oh maybe I'll go to med school" later on, and slowly got more and more into that idea. So based on your advice and a lot of the other TL advice, I think I'll definitely choose between mol bio-premed and engineering-notpremed...and I think mol bio premed will win out. Thanks for the advice guys!
On a side note, my school requires you to take a foreign language if you don't do engineering...and I have no background with any foreign languages. Gogo korean 101! =D
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dude I can't believe you didn't ask us for advice before turning to TL... I just wrote up a decent length essay, but I figure I could just tell you this stuff in person
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Like Chill said, don't take engineering if your end goal is to get good enough grades to get into med school. I mean, hell, it can be done, but you aren't going to have any fun doing it. Spend more time putting lips to beerbong and less time putting nose to grindstone.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://media.moddb.com/images/engines/1/1/3/19560.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/nerd_sniping.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/purity.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/impostor.png)
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