"Zerg rediscovered mutalisks and defilers, while Protoss started to use arbiters. I think similarly, Terran has to look into their high tech units. I think the key is ghosts. Next season, I plan to experiment with a variety of strategies using ghosts. Together with Flash and Fantasy, I hope we can recapture the glory of our predecessors. Terran fighting!"
I have a pretty clear idea how Leta will revolutionize TvZ.
The answer is MASS GHOSTS! I cannot comprehend how brilliant this strategy is.
A little know fact is that the Ghost counters almost all of the units seen in bionic ZvT. Yes, it is true, 10 concussive damage deals the full fury to Mutalisk, Zergling, Scourge, Drone, Defiler. The Ghost also OUTRANGES Lurker making it a hard counter to Lurkers too. It also does full damage to Defiler if the occasion arises. The only way to Counter the Ghost is Ultralisk. That is how strong the Ghost is.
So, the Ghost counters everything the Zerg has until Defiler comes out, and remains useful after that much like Marines, but with Nuclear Striking.
The Ghost has many different roles during the game. It will outrange Mutalisk when it tries to attack marine, very similar to the Goliath effect. It will replace Tank for putting pressure to Lurkers as it is far more mobile than Tank and does powerful damage to Zerglings as well. It will also be a powerful Vessel protector due to needing only 3 hits to kill a Scourge.
The Ghost enjoys synergy with all the other units in bionic play excepth maybe the Siege Tank, as the Ghost is a far superior siege engine with super range, super mobility and nuclear capabilities.
So, prepare to eat a lot of canister rifle next season!
Mutalisks generally do not pose a threat to Terran after SVs come out; ghosts come out later than SV, and takes a long while to reach 'critical mass', w/e this means for ghosts.
The ghost has some potential certainly, but for cost stimmed marines just have higher dps than ghosts. they build faster and cost much less - I just dont think ghosts are economically viable. Furthermore, the need for different tech to open up ghosts will very likely stall science vessels as well.
I must say, I am very eager to see what Leta can come up with.
I'd like to see this used effectively, but a) Ghosts don't do the full 10 damage to hydras, ultras or lurkers, and since you would be replacing Tanks with ghosts(because you won't have the extra gas), lurkers are probably more effective so hydralurk or hydraultra would be a great counter. b) Ghosts are weak as fuck, take sort of long to build, and have just about the same health as marine. c) Personally, I would think they would only be used in addition to mech play if anything, for the nuke capabilities. I think they would be used more in mech because of the rare use of ultras and lurkers.
On September 19 2009 14:50 Grobyc wrote: I'd like to see this used effectively, but a) Ghosts don't do the full 10 damage to hydras, ultras or lurkers, and since you would be replacing Tanks with ghosts(because you won't have the extra gas), lurkers are probably more effective so hydralurk or hydraultra would be a great counter. b) Ghosts are weak as fuck, take sort of long to build, and have just about the same health as marine. c) Personally, I would think they would only be used in addition to mech play if anything, for the nuke capabilities. I think they would be used more in mech because of the rare use of ultras and lurkers.
i think for using ghost it would be more of an SK type play so you wouldnt have tanks and rines > hydra making ghost have no effect except for adding some distance to the attacks
On September 19 2009 14:50 Grobyc wrote: I'd like to see this used effectively, but a) Ghosts don't do the full 10 damage to hydras, ultras or lurkers, and since you would be replacing Tanks with ghosts(because you won't have the extra gas), lurkers are probably more effective so hydralurk or hydraultra would be a great counter. b) Ghosts are weak as fuck, take sort of long to build, and have just about the same health as marine. c) Personally, I would think they would only be used in addition to mech play if anything, for the nuke capabilities. I think they would be used more in mech because of the rare use of ultras and lurkers.
i think for using ghost it would be more of an SK type play so you wouldnt have tanks and rines > hydra making ghost have no effect except for adding some distance to the attacks
I would definitely say there is room for possibility for using ghosts in TvZ as well as TvP. Fantasy revolutionized Terran vs Zerg through his mech play. Using a higher tier unit such as the Ghost is definitely viable. To be honest, I did not imagine Valkonic or Bioliath or Fantasy build be viable. It's just really incredible that even after ten years, the game is constantly evolving.
I can totally see a group of cloaked ghosts killing a Zerg expo. Also what could happen is ghost+dropship play. Get a few cloaked ghosts in a Zerg's mineral line and it's like having DTs in their base (sniping each drone one by one)
Actually I'm still convinced the OP is a troll post.
Ultras are the only thing that counters ghosts? What about Guardians? Hydras only take like half damage or 75% or something from ghosts, so they'd be good too. Lurkers? Ghosts can't run fast enough to avoid lurkerling swarms.
Maybe some ghosts, but not mass ghosts. Ghosts just cost too much money for not enough firepower. The concussive damage ruins it all.
On September 19 2009 15:40 blabber wrote: I can totally see a group of cloaked ghosts killing a Zerg expo. Also what could happen is ghost+dropship play. Get a few cloaked ghosts in a Zerg's mineral line and it's like having DTs in their base (sniping each drone one by one)
yeah and get enough to one shot an overlord and that's gg right there! damn if only they werent so gas heavy
Costs 75 gas, takes longer to build, and can't stim, and does 2 damage to Ultralisks (making it really easy to counter en masse)
I don't think Leta meant mass ghosts TvZ. Maybe mixed in, I guess, but largely probably for nuclear strikes, and possibly cloak sniping some drones (like DTs). 4 ghosts to kill a Drone? Could work, especially if the Zerg isn't in the habit of keeping overlords at his main. He might be after you do this once though (and then vultures become by and far more cost efficient for a tactic like this... actually vultures are better in all cases).
He definitely means nukes, or maybe lockdown TvP on arbiters if he's talking ghosts. Better to get Science Vessels if you just want to supplement your army TvZ.
I guess you could transition from m&m to a shitton of vultures with ghosts or something, the mines/vults could take try to take care of the zerglings/ultralisks which are the biggest threat to the ghosts.
Why so serious? Pretty sure that it's just joke topic. I laughed reading the OP few times, then i began reading comments and they were all serious, so I've felt like a retard who is the only person laughing at a joke :|
What few of you realize is this guy is the mastermind that posted the Queen/Hydra ZvP build on TL strategy forum to get mocked for a week till Zero used it on the best Protoss in the world for the lulz and it worked.
Leta doesn't exclusively mention TvZ in his interview.
Chef makes a good point. Ghosts would be an amazing late game counter to arbs. I hate it when I EMP arbs, just to have them run away and come back later with a recharged energy. Eventually, the toss gets up to three or four arbs, and it is a huge pain to EMP all of them if they're spread out. Ghosts will be able to keep arbiter counts down. EMP + lockdown on arbs, and snipe with goliaths. Wow this is a surprisingly good idea, why haven't I tried this before? I'm gonna start doing this
Wraith/Ghost = Terran version of Corsair/DT? ;P Or maybe Valkyrie/Ghost?
But seriously, Lockdown is awesome when used correctly. I can see how it can be used against Carriers and Arbiters against P. In TvT it can be used if opponent goes BC's, or simply against sieged up tanks. Lockdown has a lot of potential that is yet to be used. Go for it Leta!
in tvp ghosts can and should be used more often than they are.. they're good and in campy games with limit, which tvp tends to become, gas is very expendable.
but in tvz 1 vessel is virtually always better than 3 ghosts
On September 20 2009 08:15 Holgerius wrote: Wraith/Ghost = Terran version of Corsair/DT? ;P Or maybe Valkyrie/Ghost?
But seriously, Lockdown is awesome when used correctly. I used it in a game against Ultras (I hate them so much!), it pretty much won me that game. I can also see how it can be used against Carriers and Arbiters against P. In TvT it can be used if opponent goes BC's, or simply against sieged up tanks. Lockdown has a lot of potential that is yet to be used. Go for it Leta!
wraith/ghost or valkyrie/ghost would be insane amount of gas....... but I'm really interested to see what could happen with this. I'm already scared of terran DT drops on me >.>
omg.... wraith ghost would be so fucking amazing!!! if i ever saw that play out- holyshit... i would switch to terran right away! Wraith ghost, you have me thinking now
On September 20 2009 06:49 samachking wrote: What few of you realize is this guy is the mastermind that posted the Queen/Hydra ZvP build on TL strategy forum to get mocked for a week till Zero used it on the best Protoss in the world for the lulz and it worked.
My bet? villageidiot is a Clairvoyant
That's what I was going to say. I'm looking forward to seeing leta wreck some poor zerg with mass ghosts next season now.
A good example of "smart" ghost usage could have been seen in that recent Boxer vs Yellow game on nostalgia, where boxer used ghosts as both a way to harass and to clean choke points covered with dark swarm. Personally I believe that this is the role of ghosts, "ghost" support unit that nukes at convenient times.
One could argue that Yellow is not a good player, but I think he played pretty well in that game.
Also, I damn hate saying that "someone will revolutionize something", this is usually pure marketing hype/lies. Anyone remember "ginger" which turned out to be a crappy segway? (with like 30 000 units sold rotfl)
Defiler are medium size units, along with hydra, and lurkers. They would only take 50% damage from ghost.
I dont think Ghost are ever useful against zerg, only slightly to do a cute nuke strike. I bet Leta was considering the use of Ghosts rather in TvP.
But they do have some nice features, Ghost shoot 7 range meaning they out-range lurkers, and match guardians if inside a bunker (bunker = +1 range) Ghosts inside a bunker will also out-range sunken colony. Like others mentioned, the cloak ability could be quite something to look into.
Although, I am not enthusiastic about the viability, I still hope it succeeds.
I can definately see some nuke drops are viable since nukes only cost 200/200 (lift off your existing CC to make a nuke) I mean, sure if you point the nuke at the expo, the other guy will most likely realize in time and kill your cloaked ghost but if you do this simutaneously to multiple expos, chances are, at least 1 will hit. And that 1 crucial hit makes up for the Covert OP + 1 Ghost + Research + 200/200 imo if you get like the base + 15 or more workers
EPT
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