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First off: NO, I don't want a dumbass teaching job in Korea or anywhere else, I am looking for a real, substantial job that will give me good experience and look nice on a grad school application. The first questions I should answer is, why overseas and where? I believe that's a good segway into the life of Xeris right now.
So I'm almost done with UCSD, one quarter to go, which I'll be spending in Washington D.C. I've gotten an internship with the Institute for Policy Studies, working on foreign policy issues relating to Green Energy. For those that are aware of me, my main specialization is on Middle Eastern affairs, so obviously this isn't my forte... but I'm excited at the challenge and the prospect of becoming immersed in something new and different.
Anyways, after that... what? Although I could just apply to grad schools, I've been vacillating for awhile between a PhD and a JD... and I think I've decided on doing a joint PhD/JD program. However, I really want to take some time off before I do that (about 2 years). Then I though, wtf do I do for 2 years before my grad programs? Work, obviously. The next question is, where should I work? And that's where my desire to go abroad comes in.
While an undergrad I didn't get the chance to study abroad, but I really want to sort of experience different cultures. I've spent 3 months in France, and some time in Iran when I was too young to even remember, and aside from that I really have no experience living anywhere else besides the United States. So, I'd love to be able to find a job overseas that will allow me to experience life somewhere else, and also give me valuable job experience, and some sort of respectable salary.
The second motivation for wanting to work is of course, money. As most of TL, I'm a poor college student. Frankly, I'm tired of basically continually living off between $1000 and $2000. I want to actually build up some money of my own because living off such a small amount of money is stressful. I work a little, doing stuff like OL, Tutoring, etc... and I don't have many expenses. Honestly my biggest expenses are traveling to LAN's once or twice per year, other than that I never buy clothes (maybe about $100-$200 per year max), and only buy food aside from that. So basically the money I make from working over the year covers my meager expenses, but I never really make more, so I'm always balancing between said numbers, which again, stresses me out because I don't feel like I have financial freedom to live the way I want. So... I want to have a job that actually earns me money, and for the additional reason of funding grad school.
Summary: two main reasons for working for ~2 years: financial, and experience (professional and cultural).
Next thing is where do I want to go... I guess my two main destinations would be France or China. Yes, seems random but I have good reasons.
France: I speak French (it's not fluent but it's at least good enough that when I'm in France I don't need to speak English), I have some family and friends there, so I'll have a place to stay, and I love the food and culture there. I've also been there several times and really want to become fluent in French. The main con is that Paris is a really expensive city (although my costs would be minimized by the fact that I'll have a place to stay).
China: My best friend is Chinese, and my current gf is Chinese (I actually met her on my trip to France last week, go figure), so I'll have a place to live there too. Also China is ridiculously cheap (my gf's apartment has 2 bedrooms and about 1000 sq ft for only 350 euros per month). Also I really am interested in Chinese culture, history, and of course, food. The main con is that I don't speak Chinese aside from a few basic words and phrases, and I don't know nearly as many people there (just 2 actually).
So I'd really like to find a job in one of those places, but my question for TL is... how would I go about doing this? I'll have a degree magna cum laude in Political Science (IR specialization) from UCSD, am in Phi Beta Kappa, and have a little knowledge of International Law as well.
The two questions are:
1) What kind of job (realistically) could I expect to find overseas ?
and...
2) How in the world would I go about looking for one?
*PS, another benefit of being in China is that their economy as opposed to most of the world, is still growing, so presumably it'll be easier to find a job, no?
Thanks for listening TL!
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Don't have any advice, but GL!
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Hmm.
if you could be more specific about the kind of jobs you expect, I could help.
My friends with Political Science degrees usually get a thesis payed by the government or city they live in. That thesis (its usually 2 to 3 years AFTER the degree iirc) allow them to work on various political campaigns and experiment their theory on a real try.
I could get you in touch with people in France working on political campaigns BUT is that really what you'd like ?
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Hmm I guess I'm looking for something like a company in France or China that does international work, so I could provide research on different laws of other countries, customs or w/e of different countries, honestly I really don't know what someone with a Political Science degree "does" , if that makes sense...
I'm not really interested in working directly in politics, like on campaigns or other stuff like that, I'm more interested in relations between governments, trade, etc.
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If you can sweat it, you should try applying for financial services position in Hong Kong or London. Just prep up on interview skills and retelling your life story (which you did a good job of in the OP).
They pay pretty well, but the hours are long and job content kinda sucks.
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I don't see any straight forward way for you to get a job in China with your major. If you were engineering or business grad it would be so much easier. Chinese economy is doing better than the rest but the job market is bleak as hell. Remember that we have a lot more grads finishing each year competing against the same number of jobs. There are also significant percentage of positions that are off limits to foreigners (especially anything to do with politics.)
But yeah my suggestion is that you either try to get a junior role in a western embassy or sign up on international student program at one of Beijing's universities. Once your Chinese improved then go on and look for a better job while teaching English on the side to feed yourself.
Do you speak persian? if you do, then try to get a role in united nations.
just my 2cents.
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There's a pretty cool NYT article somewhere about US graduates getting jobs in China despite the language barrier and their lack of job experience. I have no idea how to go about doing it; in fact I'm trying to do this myself - but finding a job because you speak fluent English should be quite easy to market yourself.
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Korea is fun. Good jobs, good women, great culture and great food.
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ur gf already lives in china? e-dating?!
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I met her in France but she lives in China. I don't know why I always get myself into long distance relationships, but that's another blog story O_O!
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You're gonna be poorer than a dirt farmer with the kind of jobs you'll find overseas, since you don't plan on using the only marketable skill you have (teaching english).
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On September 02 2009 07:37 d3_crescentia wrote:
There's a pretty cool NYT article somewhere about US graduates getting jobs in China despite the language barrier and their lack of job experience. I have no idea how to go about doing it; in fact I'm trying to do this myself - but finding a job because you speak fluent English should be quite easy to market yourself.
Yea I've heard of this, and my gf was telling me a lot about friends she's made who are working in China that are foreigners.. but ya a lot of them are business people or economics people. O_O!
I figure I have to have some appeal being a writer, with some knowledge of IR/law, and a fluent english speaker?
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Belgium9950 Posts
You can try applying for work at the European Union / NATO. Very good pay with nice amount of vacation, certainly in the line of your degree. Makes usage of the language knowledge. Lots of little benefits.
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Calgary26003 Posts
It's a fine plan, you just need to look at your reasoning a little bit. Building up money by working overseas makes no sense, unless you are working in terrible conditions that bring a premium pay rate with them.
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Calgary26003 Posts
Secondly, you are a dumbass for looking down on English teacher jobs. Seriously.
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Belgium9950 Posts
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On September 02 2009 07:59 Chill wrote:
Secondly, you are a dumbass for looking down on English teacher jobs. Seriously.
Well, English teaching isn't going to give me any professional experience, which defeats the purpose. If I only wanted money sure that's a great thing because it's a small amount of work for good money... but I want an actual job that I can put on my resume that will make me look more attractive to grad schools.
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On September 02 2009 07:58 Chill wrote:
It's a fine plan, you just need to look at your reasoning a little bit. Building up money by working overseas makes no sense, unless you are working in terrible conditions that bring a premium pay rate with them.
What do you mean? For example, if I live in China I'll be spending about 1/5th the amount of money on food, and about 1/10th on housing (I'll basically pay $200 per month for a nice apartment already furnished and everything)... so if I'm making let's say 40k/year at a job, I'll be able to save a LOT more of it in China than I would in the states... simply because my expenses are lower.
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On September 02 2009 08:14 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2009 07:58 Chill wrote:
It's a fine plan, you just need to look at your reasoning a little bit. Building up money by working overseas makes no sense, unless you are working in terrible conditions that bring a premium pay rate with them. What do you mean? For example, if I live in China I'll be spending about 1/5th the amount of money on food, and about 1/10th on housing (I'll basically pay $200 per month for a nice apartment already furnished and everything)... so if I'm making let's say 40k/year at a job, I'll be able to save a LOT more of it in China than I would in the states... simply because my expenses are lower.
Chinese won't pay you 40k USD a year; they might pay you 40k Yuan which is like $5500 USD.
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I have job for you, Requires bombs and promotion after your first job.
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I think I know what it is though. Your sad because iccup is down, So now you are looking for a job after being so depressed. I will give you a hug  , no bombs required for the hug.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On September 02 2009 07:59 Chill wrote:
Secondly, you are a dumbass for looking down on English teacher jobs. Seriously.
lol
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I was gonna offer my two cents but I just realized how much of an asshole and egotist u are. English teaching too low for your standards douche?dumbass job? Please Tell that to nevergg and the other twenty English teachers on tl
I hope for the worst outcomes for u
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if the cost of living is so much lower in china, would the wages be lower as well? much lower than 40k / year
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On September 02 2009 10:14 SanguineToss wrote:
I was gonna offer my two cents but I just realized how much of an asshole and egotist u are. English teaching too low for your standards douche?dumbass job? Please Tell that to nevergg and the other twenty English teachers on tl
I hope for the worst outcomes for u
What the fuck are you talking about? I clearly stated my reasoning for not wanting an english teaching job. It has nothing to do about my 'standards' it's that I don't want to go to another place just to go there - I want to be getting valuable job/professional experience that will help me later in my career and to enter grad school. Adding, "taught english in China" isn't going to help me case AT ALL, I'm not demeaning the profession, but it's not what I am interested in. Dumbass.
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Next korean proteam head coach imo. Take your experience leading a lazy as hell USA team and stick it to them ~
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On September 02 2009 10:39 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2009 10:14 SanguineToss wrote:
I was gonna offer my two cents but I just realized how much of an asshole and egotist u are. English teaching too low for your standards douche?dumbass job? Please Tell that to nevergg and the other twenty English teachers on tl
I hope for the worst outcomes for u What the fuck are you talking about? I clearly stated my reasoning for not wanting an english teaching job. It has nothing to do about my 'standards' it's that I don't want to go to another place just to go there - I want to be getting valuable job/professional experience that will help me later in my career and to enter grad school. Adding, "taught english in China" isn't going to help me case AT ALL, I'm not demeaning the profession, but it's not what I am interested in. Dumbass.
Clearly your retarted. When Chill said the same thing about you being a dumbass you just sit there but when a newbie like me comes along you argue. Whatever, Xeris you know as well as i do when you put the adjective 'dumbass' and put the word teacher besides it you put a negative connotation to the word and therefore your obviously insulting the profession. I dont give a rat's ass at what you want to do in the world but to insult other's professions is stupid. Clearly the 10+ years of education havent helped u all.
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To freshen up your dim lightbulb of a brain this is what u said
First off: NO, I don't want a dumbass teaching job in Korea or anywhere else, I am looking for a real, substantial job that will give me good experience and look nice on a grad school application.
you said you dont want a dumbass teaching job because it doesnt give you a 'REAL' (what the fuck how much more real can a job get) and a 'Substantial job' ( ????????) that will give u a good epxerience and will look nice on your application. So your implying that teaching in Korea or overseas posesess not one of those things. Therefore your insulting.
Face it, your OP was negative all around.
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NeverGG
United Kingdom5399 Posts
I happen to have a teaching job in Korea and they are what you make of them. Calling them dumbass is an insult to all of us teachers who do work hard. I teach 20 lessons a week to 2-5 year olds in a private kindergarten and it is a substantial and rewarding experience. It's also mentally draining and involves a lot of preparation time. Please don't make such unfounded generalizations about a professional you don't have any experience regarding.
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Yeah and plus since you're in polisci (lol) I'd put teachers way, way above your field anyways 
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On September 02 2009 10:49 SanguineToss wrote:
To freshen up your dim lightbulb of a brain this is what u said
First off: NO, I don't want a dumbass teaching job in Korea or anywhere else, I am looking for a real, substantial job that will give me good experience and look nice on a grad school application.
you said you dont want a dumbass teaching job because it doesnt give you a 'REAL' (what the fuck how much more real can a job get) and a 'Substantial job' ( ????????) that will give u a good epxerience and will look nice on your application. So your implying that teaching in Korea or overseas posesess not one of those things. Therefore your insulting.
Face it, your OP was negative all around.
Real and substantial for me. Note how this is my blog, where presumably I'm talking about things pertaining to me. If I was posting in the GENERAL forum, maybe then you could think I was making general statements, but as this is a blog about me and my life, when I say 'dumbass teaching job' I'm referring to the fact that everyone I've said this to so far has said "oh just go teach overseas!", which is not what I want to do. Why? Not because it's inherently bad, but because for my career, teaching English won't help me at all.
Plus I already have three years of teaching at the high school level, so additional teaching overseas won't do anything for me. The difference between Chill's response and yours was that he just said I was a dumbass for looking down on teaching jobs (I don't), and you insulted me by calling me an asshole and an egoist. There's a difference.
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On September 02 2009 11:11 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2009 10:49 SanguineToss wrote:
To freshen up your dim lightbulb of a brain this is what u said
First off: NO, I don't want a dumbass teaching job in Korea or anywhere else, I am looking for a real, substantial job that will give me good experience and look nice on a grad school application.
you said you dont want a dumbass teaching job because it doesnt give you a 'REAL' (what the fuck how much more real can a job get) and a 'Substantial job' ( ????????) that will give u a good epxerience and will look nice on your application. So your implying that teaching in Korea or overseas posesess not one of those things. Therefore your insulting.
Face it, your OP was negative all around. Real and substantial for me. Note how this is my blog, where presumably I'm talking about things pertaining to me. If I was posting in the GENERAL forum, maybe then you could think I was making general statements, but as this is a blog about me and my life, when I say 'dumbass teaching job' I'm referring to the fact that everyone I've said this to so far has said "oh just go teach overseas!", which is not what I want to do. Why? Not because it's inherently bad, but because for my career, teaching English won't help me at all. Plus I already have three years of teaching at the high school level, so additional teaching overseas won't do anything for me. The difference between Chill's response and yours was that he just said I was a dumbass for looking down on teaching jobs (I don't), and you insulted me by calling me an asshole and an egoist. There's a difference.
Cool story man.
real and substantial for you and yes this is your blog. So let me sum it up. In YOUR BLOG where its YOUR own fairy tale and you control everything. YOU think that TEACHING is below your level and NOT real. Its exactly the same whether its in your world, my world, my blog or your blog. Your insult was uncalled for and it suprises me that your defending yourself up to this point.
Think about it this way, if i wrote the blog that you had wrote would you not feel the same way?
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No man... I never even said it was "below my level" - I just said it's not useful for me. I could get a job as a chef somewhere (I LOVE cooking), but I'd say that's not a real substantial job at this point because it won't help me professionally because I don't want to be a cook as my profession. Either way, I'm not demeaning the profession of cooking, nor am I demeaning the profession of English teaching overseas... I'm merely stating that it's not for me.
Did I say it badly, probably. But since I've already explained that my intention was not to demean the process, there was no point in you flaming me, or even posting in my blog if you didn't like it.
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On September 02 2009 11:44 Xeris wrote:
No man... I never even said it was "below my level" - I just said it's not useful for me. I could get a job as a chef somewhere (I LOVE cooking), but I'd say that's not a real substantial job at this point because it won't help me professionally because I don't want to be a cook as my profession. Either way, I'm not demeaning the profession of cooking, nor am I demeaning the profession of English teaching overseas... I'm merely stating that it's not for me.
Did I say it badly, probably. But since I've already explained that my intention was not to demean the process, there was no point in you flaming me, or even posting in my blog if you didn't like it.
I'm looking for jobs right now and coming to the realization that sometimes that sometimes you have to take what you can get and that you can't necessarily get a job that will further your career right away. I'm just lucky that my parents are so forgiving about it.
Sometimes you have to make compromises in life - and sometimes you learn shit that you wouldn't have learned otherwise in a job that you weren't sure you wanted in the first place
I know it sucks, but we just gotta suck it up and deal with it
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That's very true, and I realize that as well. However, as I haven't even really begun my search, I haven't considered English teaching really... especially because I've heard that the market for it in China is really good and if all else fails I can do that. Hence why I came here on TL and asked for advice on whether or not anybody knows of anything I could do, or how to go about searching for a job over there.
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The problem I see for you is that since your specialization is Middle Eastern affairs, and I don't think many people in China are looking for people with that kind of specialization. I also think that if you can't speak fluent chinese, I don't think they'll even hire you to teach english in China. For example, I was offered a job teaching english in China because I'm fluent in both Chinese and English.
If I were you, I would concentrate on trying to find a job there. Since you are fluent in French, I'm sure you can find websites online that will help you.
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Not fluent, but good enough. You're right though I guess about the Chinese... but actually China does A LOT of business with Iran, I might be attractive to them =P
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I will never be a teacher again. I got 0 joy out of it besides meeting the students. It made me question if I should take anger management once I stopped.
It was 1yr. If your wondering.
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Seriously, you won't make 40k teaching English in China. Not even close to that.
Getting a job is easy in China but getting a GOOD job that pays you well and give you all the benefits is hard.
You might score something for companies that have branches in China. But you don't look for those positions when you are in China, you do it from USA.
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On September 02 2009 07:37 haduken wrote:
I don't see any straight forward way for you to get a job in China with your major. If you were engineering or business grad it would be so much easier. Chinese economy is doing better than the rest but the job market is bleak as hell. Remember that we have a lot more grads finishing each year competing against the same number of jobs. There are also significant percentage of positions that are off limits to foreigners (especially anything to do with politics.)
But yeah my suggestion is that you either try to get a junior role in a western embassy or sign up on international student program at one of Beijing's universities. Once your Chinese improved then go on and look for a better job while teaching English on the side to feed yourself.
Do you speak persian? if you do, then try to get a role in united nations.
just my 2cents.
I don't get why this post has been ignored. It's probably the best advice in the thread. You might want to rethink china since finding a job there is a little tough right now. I also don't think many chinese companies would need polsci grads.
I recommend that you just get a job in a big international company and try to get a posting in a foreign country. You might have a high chance since you have polsci degree. Note that this is all speculation... I don't know how easy it is to get an international posting with a polsci degree but I think that it would help...
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My opinion following your post and your reasoning: you don't know anything. Good luck finding your 40k a year USD job in China with your credentials and attitude.
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Duranticus! I love you! I have no advice other then do what makes you happy. Good luck!
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I have a couple of acquaintances who did political science stuff. I'm not sure about overseas postings, but here are the departments/ministries/organisations you can try:
Ministry of Foreign Affairs (or equivalent)
United Nations or one of their organisations (UNICEF, UNESCO etc.)
Any international organisation with a head office such as the EU or WTO
An aid organisation/NGO which operates internationally such as Mercy Relief and Doctors Without Borders (they sometimes need people to provide information on the places they are going)
An international investment house or financial organisation that might need research on the countries they invest in (this is a longer shot)
If you just want to work in France or China, then look for such organisations which have headquarters based in these places. if you don't mind casting your net a bit broader, then you can try looking based on the organisation's roles rather than location.
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Without any prior work experience in the field you like, you won't get paid much.
France could be about the worst place abroad to find a decent paid job.
With your current degree, your best shot would be to try and sell papers to US / UK journals.
Meh, you could actually write dumb articles on french policies for US / UK ... that sells.
Unless you know some very influencial person in a company that is willing to hire you for a decent ammount, your chances are very slim at regular job things here >.>
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Also don't listen to all these ppl telling you to apply ministries etc...
1 st : it's insanely long and hard.
2nd : tons of ppl already trying with better / equivalent degree and more experience.
3rd : You'll get paid shit at your current level.
Institutions are a very long shot in europe, and every single interesting position there, is a hardcore race between many devoted high profiled euro students.
Even with good connections here (wich is fucking uncommon), I really doubt you get anything nice =[.
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What boonbag said.
It is actually quite hard to get a decent job in France. Not only you will have to get a good degree and be fluent but you will also need some good connections.
There are tons of people who went to Sci-po and want to get a job. You will have to compete against them.
And i'm not even talking about the countless students from uni.
Also you will need to pass some competitive examinations if you want to get a job in civil service and it would be a complete waste of time if you only plan to stay here one or two years.
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On September 02 2009 12:28 Xeris wrote:
Not fluent, but good enough. You're right though I guess about the Chinese... but actually China does A LOT of business with Iran, I might be attractive to them =P
sometimes they'll hire you if you're white even if you have absolutely no knowledge of mandarin
it's sad because one look at me and they assume I speak fluent chinese, and then I fail utterly
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Oh and if you want to make money ( from what i see in the OP ) don't come here.
Getting a job is hard and life is ridiculously expensive.
Could be interesting for experience and culture though.
But you won't get more money than in the US. 200% sure ( yea i know the economy is crap atm but here it is the same ).
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On September 02 2009 17:18 Boonbag wrote:
Also don't listen to all these ppl telling you to apply ministries etc...
1 st : it's insanely long and hard.
2nd : tons of ppl already trying with better / equivalent degree and more experience.
3rd : You'll get paid shit at your current level.
Institutions are a very long shot in europe, and every single interesting position there, is a hardcore race between many devoted high profiled euro students.
Even with good connections here (wich is fucking uncommon), I really doubt you get anything nice =[.
If you want him to find a job which is not insanely long and hard, there aren't any people trying with equivalent or better degrees and more experience and which pays a lot, there aren't any, ministry or no ministry. He might as well give up.
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United States22883 Posts
On September 02 2009 11:30 SanguineToss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2009 11:11 Xeris wrote:On September 02 2009 10:49 SanguineToss wrote:
To freshen up your dim lightbulb of a brain this is what u said
First off: NO, I don't want a dumbass teaching job in Korea or anywhere else, I am looking for a real, substantial job that will give me good experience and look nice on a grad school application.
you said you dont want a dumbass teaching job because it doesnt give you a 'REAL' (what the fuck how much more real can a job get) and a 'Substantial job' ( ????????) that will give u a good epxerience and will look nice on your application. So your implying that teaching in Korea or overseas posesess not one of those things. Therefore your insulting.
Face it, your OP was negative all around. Real and substantial for me. Note how this is my blog, where presumably I'm talking about things pertaining to me. If I was posting in the GENERAL forum, maybe then you could think I was making general statements, but as this is a blog about me and my life, when I say 'dumbass teaching job' I'm referring to the fact that everyone I've said this to so far has said "oh just go teach overseas!", which is not what I want to do. Why? Not because it's inherently bad, but because for my career, teaching English won't help me at all. Plus I already have three years of teaching at the high school level, so additional teaching overseas won't do anything for me. The difference between Chill's response and yours was that he just said I was a dumbass for looking down on teaching jobs (I don't), and you insulted me by calling me an asshole and an egoist. There's a difference. Cool story man. real and substantial for you and yes this is your blog. So let me sum it up. In YOUR BLOG where its YOUR own fairy tale and you control everything. YOU think that TEACHING is below your level and NOT real. Its exactly the same whether its in your world, my world, my blog or your blog. Your insult was uncalled for and it suprises me that your defending yourself up to this point. Think about it this way, if i wrote the blog that you had wrote would you not feel the same way? Sounds like your bubble has been burst and you're butthurt over it. Aside from the learning the language of the country you're in, teaching English isn't relevant experience for anything besides another teaching job. Saying "I had this cool experience in another country" doesn't mean anything to an employer.
It's a stepping stone to other things, but not the things Xeris wants to do. He wants to get his career started, and that doesn't involve teaching.
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On September 02 2009 16:13 NoobsOfWrath wrote:
My opinion following your post and your reasoning: you don't know anything. Good luck finding your 40k a year USD job in China with your credentials and attitude.
My whole entire point of making this blog is to say "I dont know anything, please give me advice TL because maybe there are some people who have been in my position and know more than me" .
jesus lol
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wow so many haters itt
i don't have anything relevant to add, really, but i'm going to be graduating ucr in spring with a posc-IR degree, so if you find out that IR majors are really in demand for some lucrative job, feel free to pass on the info 
magna cum laude from UCSD is some good shit, best of luck
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Blizzard Europe (near Paris) http://eu.blizzard.com/en/jobs/
Paris is probably the best place in France to find a job. And even if the life cost more, you'll be paid more... But I can't help you about Political Science jobs :/
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3861 Posts
just in case it comes down to it: http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/china/
However, teaching in France will require you to have a masters in TESOL or at least a certificate.
I also kinda resent how you worded that (and I'm not even a teacher!) but I do understand what you were trying to say. Could have done with out the "dumbass" part of it and just say that you want something that's more towards your specific major than lumping teaching as a profession that is something that is not substantial. =/
Good luck. All I know about political science jobs is that you gotta know someone. Isn't that how politics work?
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You need connections to find jobs in China.
If you are in tech, there might be a few companies with global campuses hiring. I'm not too sure about poli-sci.
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Lol, harsh reality strike incoming I guess.
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EPT
