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Active: 643 users

TLnet Poll - What are your thoughts on the balance test map?

What are your thoughts on the balance test map? :

Decent fixes, room for small improvements. (5339)47%
Great fixes, no complaints. (2102)19%
Terrible fixes, need to change completely. (1963)17%
Bad fixes, lots of room for improvement. (1890)17%

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Survivor61316
Profile Joined July 2012
United States470 Posts
November 22 2012 23:57 GMT
#1
These changes are much needed to nerf the impossible to kill zerg late game army. GGlords and winfestors got their nicknames for a reason.
Liquid Fighting
Nyvis
Profile Joined November 2012
France284 Posts
November 23 2012 00:04 GMT
#2
The problem is Zerg lategame, but the nerf targets zerg midgame way too hard. Zergs are based a lot on infestors to hold midgame pushs in PvZ (sentry based ...), and this patch will make it really difficult. I think trying it with only HT and Ghosts being unaffected might be a solution (they'll be able to counter the infestors freely if they're undefended, and it won't affect zergs defence in midgame.
Verator
Profile Joined June 2010
United States283 Posts
November 23 2012 00:16 GMT
#3
On November 23 2012 08:57 Survivor61316 wrote:
These changes are much needed to nerf the impossible to kill zerg late game army. GGlords and winfestors got their nicknames for a reason.



Just like Freewin colossus and unbeatable forcefields and imbastim.
So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence. -- Bertrand Russell
Survivor61316
Profile Joined July 2012
United States470 Posts
November 23 2012 00:19 GMT
#4
On November 23 2012 09:04 Nyvis wrote:
The problem is Zerg lategame, but the nerf targets zerg midgame way too hard. Zergs are based a lot on infestors to hold midgame pushs in PvZ (sentry based ...), and this patch will make it really difficult. I think trying it with only HT and Ghosts being unaffected might be a solution (they'll be able to counter the infestors freely if they're undefended, and it won't affect zergs defence in midgame.

Well the sentry immortal push is actually designed to get there before infestors pop out, so in really doesnt change it all that much. Perhaps if the protoss pushes later after they pop this could be a problem, but I feel like adjusted scouting techniques to see if/when this push is coming would give the zerg ample time to build more defensive units and structures to counter it.
Liquid Fighting
rQdjay
Profile Joined November 2011
United States22 Posts
November 23 2012 00:19 GMT
#5
On November 23 2012 09:04 Nyvis wrote:
The problem is Zerg lategame, but the nerf targets zerg midgame way too hard. Zergs are based a lot on infestors to hold midgame pushs in PvZ (sentry based ...), and this patch will make it really difficult. I think trying it with only HT and Ghosts being unaffected might be a solution (they'll be able to counter the infestors freely if they're undefended, and it won't affect zergs defence in midgame.


Completely agree with this. There are way too many psionic units to be unaffected by fungal, such as warp prism and archon. IMO I don't believe the reason that ghosts and high templar are currently not a very viable response to infestors is because of the stun. Making ghosts and ht immune to stun would seem like a possible solution to experiment with. I don't think we should be focusing on nerfing the infestor, but instead having better responses to the infestor.
Survivor61316
Profile Joined July 2012
United States470 Posts
November 23 2012 00:21 GMT
#6
On November 23 2012 09:16 Verator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2012 08:57 Survivor61316 wrote:
These changes are much needed to nerf the impossible to kill zerg late game army. GGlords and winfestors got their nicknames for a reason.



Just like Freewin colossus and unbeatable forcefields and imbastim.

Yeah, sorry man, Ive never heard a caster or anyone else use those terms until right now..
Liquid Fighting
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
November 23 2012 00:51 GMT
#7
I am very surprised that there are so many complaints. It's a nerf to Infestors and a buff to Ravens, for crying out loud. Isn't that what everyone has been asking for?
Diceman45
Profile Joined September 2012
United States27 Posts
November 23 2012 00:54 GMT
#8
On November 23 2012 09:16 Verator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2012 08:57 Survivor61316 wrote:
These changes are much needed to nerf the impossible to kill zerg late game army. GGlords and winfestors got their nicknames for a reason.



Just like Freewin colossus and unbeatable forcefields and imbastim.


Corruptor's > Colossi. and I've actually been having some success with Ling/Hydra against the push.
merinerkongprine
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada20 Posts
November 23 2012 02:13 GMT
#9
On November 23 2012 09:21 Survivor61316 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2012 09:16 Verator wrote:
On November 23 2012 08:57 Survivor61316 wrote:
These changes are much needed to nerf the impossible to kill zerg late game army. GGlords and winfestors got their nicknames for a reason.



Just like Freewin colossus and unbeatable forcefields and imbastim.

Yeah, sorry man, Ive never heard a caster or anyone else use those terms until right now..

Ive also never heard casters use gglords or winfestors either
Survivor61316
Profile Joined July 2012
United States470 Posts
November 23 2012 03:39 GMT
#10
On November 23 2012 11:13 merinerkongprine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2012 09:21 Survivor61316 wrote:
On November 23 2012 09:16 Verator wrote:
On November 23 2012 08:57 Survivor61316 wrote:
These changes are much needed to nerf the impossible to kill zerg late game army. GGlords and winfestors got their nicknames for a reason.



Just like Freewin colossus and unbeatable forcefields and imbastim.

Yeah, sorry man, Ive never heard a caster or anyone else use those terms until right now..

Ive also never heard casters use gglords or winfestors either

Listen to husky, day9, or hd sometime then bro
Liquid Fighting
Nuclease
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1049 Posts
November 23 2012 06:13 GMT
#11
On November 23 2012 12:39 Survivor61316 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2012 11:13 merinerkongprine wrote:
On November 23 2012 09:21 Survivor61316 wrote:
On November 23 2012 09:16 Verator wrote:
On November 23 2012 08:57 Survivor61316 wrote:
These changes are much needed to nerf the impossible to kill zerg late game army. GGlords and winfestors got their nicknames for a reason.



Just like Freewin colossus and unbeatable forcefields and imbastim.

Yeah, sorry man, Ive never heard a caster or anyone else use those terms until right now..

Ive also never heard casters use gglords or winfestors either

Listen to husky, day9, or hd sometime then bro


Zealots, not zee-lots. | Never forget, KTViolet, Go)Space. | You will never be as good as By.Flash, and your drops will never be as sick as MMA.
clever_us
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States329 Posts
November 23 2012 06:29 GMT
#12
On November 23 2012 15:13 Nuclease wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2012 12:39 Survivor61316 wrote:
On November 23 2012 11:13 merinerkongprine wrote:
On November 23 2012 09:21 Survivor61316 wrote:
On November 23 2012 09:16 Verator wrote:
On November 23 2012 08:57 Survivor61316 wrote:
These changes are much needed to nerf the impossible to kill zerg late game army. GGlords and winfestors got their nicknames for a reason.



Just like Freewin colossus and unbeatable forcefields and imbastim.

Yeah, sorry man, Ive never heard a caster or anyone else use those terms until right now..

Ive also never heard casters use gglords or winfestors either

Listen to husky, day9, or hd sometime then bro




my response would be closer to
glhf <3
ProCheeto
Profile Joined November 2010
United States15 Posts
November 23 2012 06:49 GMT
#13
why is this map not forced cross positions..? it's just silly to try balance testing on ladder antiga.
dangerously cheesy.
HououinKyouma
Profile Joined November 2011
Australia152 Posts
November 23 2012 07:21 GMT
#14
Haven't tried it out so i cant vote :L
Terran Dream Team | TaeJa | INnoVation | Maru | TY| Cure | Maru again
Cereb
Profile Joined November 2011
Denmark3388 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-23 09:47:51
November 23 2012 09:44 GMT
#15
My biggest concerns are that you cannot kill warp prisms anymore and they are already pretty hard to get.

Also the fact that you can't stop the archons at all from going into the vortex, too.


Honestly, I almost feel this is more of a buff to those two units than to HTs and ghosts.


Projectile is a great idea though.



On November 23 2012 08:57 Survivor61316 wrote:
These changes are much needed to nerf the impossible to kill zerg late game army. GGlords and winfestors got their nicknames for a reason.



"Until the very very top in almost anything, all that matters is how much work you put in. The only problem is most people can't work hard even at things they do enjoy, much less things they don't have a real passion for. -Greg "IdrA" Fields
Korhag
Profile Joined November 2008
1 Post
November 23 2012 11:13 GMT
#16
Actually I am not even a player I just enjoy watching SC2.
But nowadays the questions about balance and infestors decreased the joy of watching games. I think this new change is an interesting way to approach this problem. But I do not know about being completely immune to fungal thing. Maybe it should at least reveal cloaked psionic units or both immobilize and reveal them but no damage. Because while fighting with a Mothership it would be interesting and I think also would be very hard when sentries or archons still cloaked while other fungaled units revealed. Like I said I am not enjoying playing the game I just enjoy watching them so I could be missing some important points.

But when I think about the Psionic Storm or HSM, it is possible to dodge them to some point and need some skill to use. But fungal is not like that I think that is the main reason why it kills the joy of watching (and maybe also playing). Because when I see a good landed storm I really appreciate the storm user or when someone dodged a storm I also appreciate the dodger. But it is not the case with the fungal. According to me it should be harder to use not just an automatic way to both immobilize and damage the opponent. Maybe adding a projectile or a kind of warning around the point where fungal is going the land (I have really no idea what the duration or the speed of projectile would be). But It is good that there will be still balancing updates before HotS is out. I was actually afraid that nothing will change in WoL because of the HotS.
Skytt
Profile Joined June 2011
Scotland333 Posts
November 23 2012 13:55 GMT
#17
I feel that the psionic nerf isn't the right way to do it, imo a removal of the stun for a 50% slow or a 90% slow that decreases by 12.5% every 0.5 seconds and an increase to either the supply or the cost of infestors would have been better than removing the ability to fungal other casters. It does nothing to stop us landing fungals on all of the damage dealing units that P and T has and probably means we'll see even more infested terrans.

The raven change is fine.
gamingaddictmike
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada30 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-23 15:25:07
November 23 2012 15:23 GMT
#18
Man the real problem is mothership. I wish they would take that unit out of the game because it is so boring. I read a tl post about smart casting that touched on mothership and it just said everything I was thinking. Giving only one way to stop an otherwise unbeatable army (as p obviously) makes for incredibly dull games. Choices is what makes stacraft strategy interesting, and mothership to me eliminates the largest amount of choices for any player.

If it means anything I play masters P, Diamond Random. Trying to be unbiased but Protoss is definitely my main race.

As for this patch, I imagine they will limit it, as sentry, archon, dt, and warp prism all apply. Does this mean dt's will no lnger be uncloaked by a fungal? Seems a bit silly. Warp prism is a really strong way to stop zerg from getting out of hand, and if zergs have a harder time dealing with it that might be too stronger (although a patrolling corrupter or two would actually make a big difference even despite their cost.)

I really really strongly feel the ghost changes would be unneccessary if the snipe nerf had not been so excessive so long ago. Most zerg players back then agreed that it needed to be nerfed, but that the nerf was too strong.

If snipe did more damage it would make getting a couple ghosts more viable, without making it OP.
I can't be sure if the fungal nerf to ghosts will make a huge difference but I guess it is nice to see some ideas on the table.

The only way I would be really upset is this ends up with no changes. PvZ at the moment is flawed. Whether it is unbalanced or not the matchup suffers from problems in game design. I'm not bringing anything new to the table when I say this, only echoing many, many pros.

To the Protoss and Terran players in thread, try not to rage too much.. To the Zerg, try to think realistically about Brood Lord Infestor. Even if you don't think it is too strong, don't you at least find it makes for uninteresting games? The community spends too much time raging at each other and provoking each other (trying not to sound like an elitist dick, but really some people are so immature about this that I feel like I am in a LoL forum) Hopefully some people respond with constructive criticism too my thoughts.

Cheers.
lahara
Profile Joined April 2012
Germany140 Posts
November 23 2012 16:22 GMT
#19
On November 23 2012 09:54 Diceman45 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2012 09:16 Verator wrote:
On November 23 2012 08:57 Survivor61316 wrote:
These changes are much needed to nerf the impossible to kill zerg late game army. GGlords and winfestors got their nicknames for a reason.



Just like Freewin colossus and unbeatable forcefields and imbastim.


Corruptor's > Colossi. and I've actually been having some success with Ling/Hydra against the push.

now thats just dandy that you have success in woodleague against woodleaguers while the push theyre attempting to do has silly winrates in progames
having an argument on the internt is like competing in the paralympics, even if u win ure still retarded
lahara
Profile Joined April 2012
Germany140 Posts
November 23 2012 16:23 GMT
#20
On November 23 2012 15:29 clever_us wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2012 15:13 Nuclease wrote:
On November 23 2012 12:39 Survivor61316 wrote:
On November 23 2012 11:13 merinerkongprine wrote:
On November 23 2012 09:21 Survivor61316 wrote:
On November 23 2012 09:16 Verator wrote:
On November 23 2012 08:57 Survivor61316 wrote:
These changes are much needed to nerf the impossible to kill zerg late game army. GGlords and winfestors got their nicknames for a reason.



Just like Freewin colossus and unbeatable forcefields and imbastim.

Yeah, sorry man, Ive never heard a caster or anyone else use those terms until right now..

Ive also never heard casters use gglords or winfestors either

Listen to husky, day9, or hd sometime then bro




my response would be closer to

youd take a bath in your own puke in a toilet?
having an argument on the internt is like competing in the paralympics, even if u win ure still retarded
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