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samurai80
Japan4225 Posts
On November 26 2012 18:03 Gutts011 wrote: The problem with this map is that no zergs play it. Played about 10 games and none of them featured a Zerg. Lol. Lol. Well it's not surprising. It's like : "Fellow zergs, would you mind participating in your nerf test ?" ^^ | ||
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mcdoobyland
United States18 Posts
I think the nerf to infestors is definitely something worth trying out, but by the looks of it, i think the projectile and 12.5 decrease etc is a better option. As a protoss player, I think that the mothership should definitely be kept in-game, because it is a great solution for protoss to stop the giant Broodlord Infestor ball that protoss are so used to seeing. I am only in diamond league, so I cannot give any proffessional advice :3. | ||
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towerranger
Austria134 Posts
not beeing able to fungal infestors, sentrys, archons, dts warpprisms is so weird | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On November 23 2012 09:04 Nyvis wrote: The problem is Zerg lategame, but the nerf targets zerg midgame way too hard. Zergs are based a lot on infestors to hold midgame pushs in PvZ (sentry based ...), and this patch will make it really difficult. I think trying it with only HT and Ghosts being unaffected might be a solution (they'll be able to counter the infestors freely if they're undefended, and it won't affect zergs defence in midgame. 100% this. The nerf doesn't actually affect blord/infestor that much, and is really more of a buff to sentry pushes and warp prism harass, which I don't think is needed (or at the very least, isn't the real problem). | ||
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monsta
172 Posts
or why is brood infestor too strong? brood infestor is the slowest army combo in the metagame the toss/terrans just have to herass the zerg and snip hatches etc... -,- | ||
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ErAsc2
Sweden256 Posts
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ErAsc2
Sweden256 Posts
On November 27 2012 02:36 monsta wrote: why is infestor op? i dont get it -,- or why is brood infestor too strong? brood infestor is the slowest army combo in the metagame the toss/terrans just have to herass the zerg and snip hatches etc... -,- What is sniping hatches going to do when you literally can't beat the army? And spinecrawlers are a supply-free | ||
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ZeBigMarn
Australia30 Posts
- Fungals (and EMPs) on a forcefield removes the forcefield. This change I like because it costs alot of energy so must be used wisely and makes the infestor fairly useless until more energy is built up. Additionally it gives the Zerg the choice to either fungal the units or the forcefields. It also gives the Protoss a fighting chance as new forcefields can be put up again with good micro but so 'good' forcefields are essential as there would be less available. The damage and snare of the fungals would also be used on the forcefields so individual units can be microed as well. (EMP was an afterthought as main focus was ZvP but could still promote earlier ghost play in TvP) - Fungal and EMP can be cast on own units for a small 'buff' - Fungal options - slow own units but increase armour and attack damage to make them more durable in battle. Uses could include lings or roaches becoming stronger (but less mobile) meat shields and hydras dealing the main dps from the back or allow the infestors to escape while your throw away army can still fight and occupy the army instead of requiring a good fungal to stop the chasing units. - EMP removes fungals, lifts from pheonixs, PDD, Guardian Sheild, Nuke, Warping in Units/Buildings (maybe too powerful for auto cancel of nexus?), Storm, infested terran? These are just some ideas which I think could be implemented along with the current changes but welcome any constuctive feedback with thought out pros and cons of the changes. PS. Personally I don't find the game Imba at all, just stagnant and repetitive. I find it exciting to see the possibilities the pros can do with slight adjustments and experimentation. | ||
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CursOr
United States6335 Posts
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
On November 27 2012 03:49 CursOr wrote: I really feel like something needs to be done about infested Terran. The fact that they didn't address this at all in this "fix" surprises me. This spell brings "anti-air" to a pure Broodlord-Infestor army is a big part of the problem, methinks. Versus carriers, and used in point attacks around nexus or command center are just so strong :/ I think chain rooting should be somehow addressed... but besides that I agree that IT's need some balancing. | ||
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Riner1212
United States337 Posts
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GoodSirTets
Canada200 Posts
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Sunshinewalker
Germany34 Posts
just a small list of suggestions: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnrfPO6qxm0UdGt1ZEhjRmVSTE1QdThyOXpCY3VCdWc#gid=0 | ||
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C1Steamer
Sweden3 Posts
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Ryps
Romania2740 Posts
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banzaiib
United States53 Posts
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Kens000n
United States5 Posts
I want to see how that plays out | ||
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Heavenlee
United States966 Posts
On November 26 2012 05:23 Dyme wrote: Does anyone here remember how the metagame was before Infestors got buffed? Protoss always made a deathball and then proceeded to win by 1a-ing and some Forcefields. Can't wait for that to return, now that Fungal doesn't affect half of the Protoss units. Infestor is the only good unit Zerg has. All others are complete trash without Infestors. You could probably throw 600 supply Roach-Hydra-Corruptor against a 200 supply deathball and Protoss would win. Infestor is the only good unit, therefore it has to be good against everything. If it isn't good against a unit, that unit wins against Zerg. . Not even REMOTELY close to true. The time period you are remembering is when people didn't make a quick third hatch, didn't drone heavily, stayed in the mid-game, and people like IdrA called broodlords and infestors trash with no reason to ever go to Hive even though infestors rooted for twice as long. They thought BROODLORDS, which haven't been changed, are bad. Half the games were Losira's roach/ling all-in (the first build that understood the usefulness of lings mixed in with your roach army) where the toss instantly died or the zerg was so far behind they died to a follow up gateway or colossus timing. The only use for infested terrans was to do some weird infested terran/ling timing attack off two base. They would also make hydras for no real reason, as well as having absolutely no idea whatsoever about what a flank is, no mixing lings with roaches, upgrading, drops, spine crawler walls, etc. Sitting around maxed out on a 5000/2000 cost 1/0 upgrade army while the protoss was at 120 supply, then the protoss eventually maxed with an army almost twice as expensive. I also vividly remember the amount of zergs that would just continue to headbutt their roach/hydra army into forcefields, completely out of range of stalkers and doing nothing, while 5 colossi tore into them. That wasn't imba, it was bad micro. It may have been 1a + forcefields from protoss but it was just 1a from zerg as well. Everyone in that time period for all races were bad compared to what they are now. I see games where properly positioned/flanking roach/corruptor still beats that deathball that you claim was can't be beat by...600 supply of roach hydra corruptor..which is a hyperbole that just makes your entire argument seem more ridiculous. The reason that era was a bit protoss favored (look at the winrates, it never was even that much of a discrepancy despite "being unbeatable" or whatever) was because a 5000/2000 army would smash against forcefields doing nothing, die, then the protoss army would be at the zerg's front door and kill off a stream of reinforcing roaches coming from five different hatcheries, making it look like you needed 300 supply of zerg to kill it off (which was reasonable since that closed up the army cost quite a bit). | ||
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Myrddraal
Australia937 Posts
On November 27 2012 03:01 ZeBigMarn wrote: Here's my 2 cents, keep the proposed changes (and see how they play out) but also add one or both of the following: - Fungals (and EMPs) on a forcefield removes the forcefield. This change I like because it costs alot of energy so must be used wisely and makes the infestor fairly useless until more energy is built up. Additionally it gives the Zerg the choice to either fungal the units or the forcefields. It also gives the Protoss a fighting chance as new forcefields can be put up again with good micro but so 'good' forcefields are essential as there would be less available. The damage and snare of the fungals would also be used on the forcefields so individual units can be microed as well. (EMP was an afterthought as main focus was ZvP but could still promote earlier ghost play in TvP) - Fungal and EMP can be cast on own units for a small 'buff' - Fungal options - slow own units but increase armour and attack damage to make them more durable in battle. Uses could include lings or roaches becoming stronger (but less mobile) meat shields and hydras dealing the main dps from the back or allow the infestors to escape while your throw away army can still fight and occupy the army instead of requiring a good fungal to stop the chasing units. - EMP removes fungals, lifts from pheonixs, PDD, Guardian Sheild, Nuke, Warping in Units/Buildings (maybe too powerful for auto cancel of nexus?), Storm, infested terran? These are just some ideas which I think could be implemented along with the current changes but welcome any constuctive feedback with thought out pros and cons of the changes. PS. Personally I don't find the game Imba at all, just stagnant and repetitive. I find it exciting to see the possibilities the pros can do with slight adjustments and experimentation. I definitely like the first idea. Fungal destroying Forcefields seems weird (not as weird as rooting air units but still allowing them to fly) but I think it would be a good change. As for the second ideas, I think they are alright, though I wouldn't want EMP to prevent warpins, and it should still drain the energy of any allied units that have energy (I know you didn't say it shouldn't but I just thought I would mention it). Oh and I don't really find the game imba as a whole, but I think certain strategies are perhaps too strong (such that they get overused and become repetitive) and that the other two races need more options to deal with Zerg lategame. | ||
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iKill
Denmark861 Posts
Seriously, if you think your idea is the shit, post it on bnet. On TL it's just filler - Blizzard won't read it, and it takes the place of discussion of actual changes. | ||
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