• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:45
CEST 21:45
KST 04:45
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror4[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 20267Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)78Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2
StarCraft 2
General
[Old] StarCraft 3 Reportedly in Development 5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)
Tourneys
ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
Fantasy returning? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion GG Lan Fest Sofia, Bulgaria [this November] Sagi.gg Launcher Released
Tourneys
[ASL22] Semifinal B [ASL22] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Canadian Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11043 users

TLnet Poll - Have the results of IPL3 and IEM Guangzhou ch…

Have the results of IPL3 and IEM Guangzhou changed your opinion on the Korea-International skill gap? :

Little to no change. (10296)48%
Moderately changed. (8665)41%
Significantly changed. (2276)11%

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 13 14 15 Next All
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33707 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 05:49:41
October 11 2011 05:43 GMT
#1
Hmm, considering that I always thought the BEST foreigners have a good shot against mid-level Koreans, and they still have almost no chance against the BEST Koreans, I don't think much has changed for me.

Look at me, replying to my own poll o/
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
October 11 2011 05:44 GMT
#2
Not particularly, the top foreigners like Thorzain, Huk, Idra, Stephano, have always been able to beat mid-tier Koreans.

Thorzain over MC remains the biggest foreigner win, with maybe Huk over Nada in second.
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
October 11 2011 05:44 GMT
#3
Only a handful of foreigners can defeat Koreans, and not even consistently. Nothing changed.
ॐ
Ruscour
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
5233 Posts
October 11 2011 05:45 GMT
#4
On October 11 2011 14:43 Waxangel wrote:
Hmm, considering that I always thought the BEST foreigners always have a shot against mid-level Koreans, and they still have almost no chance against the BEST Koreans, I don't think much has changed for me.

Look at me, replying to my own poll o/

Completely agree.
Mandalor
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Germany2362 Posts
October 11 2011 05:47 GMT
#5
These tournaments in particular didn't change much for me, but the overall trend is there. 6-9 months ago, a foreigner winning a tournament with a bunch of koreans attending was unthinkable. Koreans just walzed over everyone and apart from losing a game or two during the tournament, seemed invincible.
I don't feel like this is the case anymore.
Yamulo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2096 Posts
October 11 2011 05:50 GMT
#6
On October 11 2011 14:44 jalstar wrote:
Not particularly, the top foreigners like Thorzain, Huk, Idra, Stephano, have always been able to beat mid-tier Koreans.

Thorzain over MC remains the biggest foreigner win, with maybe Huk over Nada in second.

Huk over MC wasn't big?
~~~Liquid Fighting (SC2)~~~
GrapeD
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada679 Posts
October 11 2011 05:50 GMT
#7
I think the koreans just had a head start on foreigners because of BW in korea, so now that the foreigner scene is catching up the foreigners are going to start being equal to the koreans. As of now tho the best koreans are still way better.
Some people hurt people. I defenestrate those people.
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
October 11 2011 05:54 GMT
#8
On October 11 2011 14:50 Yamulo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 14:44 jalstar wrote:
Not particularly, the top foreigners like Thorzain, Huk, Idra, Stephano, have always been able to beat mid-tier Koreans.

Thorzain over MC remains the biggest foreigner win, with maybe Huk over Nada in second.

Huk over MC wasn't big?


+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
only zerg ever to do it in a televised series
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
theBALLS
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Singapore2935 Posts
October 11 2011 05:54 GMT
#9
Foreigners have the soul, koreans have the regiment.

You may be special, but you're not going to be consistently dominant over someone who trains 10x as hard as you.

Until foreigners are able to adhere to a regime akin to that of the koreans, the skill game will always be there.
If you lose the stick, you'll always have theBALLS.
ragealot
Profile Joined July 2011
432 Posts
October 11 2011 05:56 GMT
#10
Anyone who watched last season's Code A can see the top foreigners are capable of beating Koreans, but it's more a question of can they compete with the best of Code S, NesTea/MVP/Bomber excluded. I'd say right now only about four or five are capable so nothing's changed.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
October 11 2011 05:57 GMT
#11
Lucky beating MMA and Ryung was a bigger suprise than Stephano beating Lucky
Carrilord has arrived.
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 05:58:39
October 11 2011 05:57 GMT
#12
i always said some of the korean winners had "easy" brackets and was lucky other koreans kicked out strong foreign before they was kicked out themself

also alot of foreigns run in their worst matchups often or perfom WAY under skill (Idra every 2nd tournament see him vs ogsstc where he played not on 5%)

i think it was just a matter of time and think! Stephano plays ~3 hours a day on ladder not like 12 hour korean progaminmg schelude with train allys

ps: alot guys here forget hsc3 naniwa and huk beat mc, and that dimaga is the only zerg that crushed nestea (offline IN korea)
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
October 11 2011 05:59 GMT
#13
Slight change only because I am an optimist, and the interview with FXOz was really interesting.
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
R0YAL
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States1768 Posts
October 11 2011 06:04 GMT
#14
The thing is that it's Korea vs the rest of the world and Korea still has the best of the best as well as a greater number of great players. Surely there will be a few individuals throughout the entirety of the planet that can compete with some of the better Koreans. But you have to remember that it's literally everyone vs the Koreans so a few players competing with the Koreans doesn't mean that foreigners as a whole can compete with Korea.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
SpiritAshura
Profile Joined March 2007
United States1271 Posts
October 11 2011 06:06 GMT
#15
1 result doesn't = trend for me. little to no change. ask this after the next MLG and we see the results for that.
dala
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden477 Posts
October 11 2011 06:07 GMT
#16
More surprised about which foreign players are doing well.
Yamulo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2096 Posts
October 11 2011 06:08 GMT
#17
On October 11 2011 14:54 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 14:50 Yamulo wrote:
On October 11 2011 14:44 jalstar wrote:
Not particularly, the top foreigners like Thorzain, Huk, Idra, Stephano, have always been able to beat mid-tier Koreans.

Thorzain over MC remains the biggest foreigner win, with maybe Huk over Nada in second.

Huk over MC wasn't big?


+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
only zerg ever to do it in a televised series

completely forgot about that ^^, yeah that was huge. Diamaga vs MVP as well ^^
~~~Liquid Fighting (SC2)~~~
Doof
Profile Joined October 2010
United States204 Posts
October 11 2011 06:19 GMT
#18
I'm surprised at how many different foreigners are competing so well. Even the ones who aren't winning (Ret, for example) can give great games and are clearly at the same level as the mid-tier Koreans.
Every day should be a good day to die
lizzard_warish
Profile Joined June 2011
589 Posts
October 11 2011 06:23 GMT
#19
Well considering the recent run of koreans through MLG and other events, where even mid to low level code s players were getting like 70% win rates, I had a increasingly negative view about the foreign scene. But "we" won two tournies, with actually really good players in them [puma, mma] so yeah it has hugely changed my view.
ThaZenith
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada3116 Posts
October 11 2011 06:35 GMT
#20
Opinions on something as major as a skill level difference shouldn't change over a weekend or two.

If foreigners take half the tournaments over the course of 2-3 months, then I'll acknowledge it.
1 2 3 4 5 13 14 15 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 30m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 579
ProTech137
UpATreeSC 124
Nina 55
JuggernautJason53
MindelVK 23
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 28912
Calm 2663
Mini 152
Dewaltoss 124
firebathero 115
soO 47
HiyA 27
Hyun 25
Bale 23
NaDa 21
[ Show more ]
Aegong 20
PianO 15
Sacsri 6
Dota 2
Gorgc7710
XaKoH 344
canceldota22
monkeys_forever19
League of Legends
Doublelift1268
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1596
fl0m1469
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu714
Other Games
FrodaN2140
Beastyqt676
B2W.Neo508
mouzStarbuck382
Livibee179
KnowMe146
C9.Mang0135
ToD133
Trikslyr132
RotterdaM105
Mew2King47
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 41
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki41
• niya90s 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie1044
• Shiphtur772
• WagamamaTV229
Upcoming Events
OSC
2h 30m
Replay Cast
3h 15m
OSC
1d 3h
Big Brain Bouts
1d 14h
Rex vs INexorable
GgMaChine vs HeRoMaRinE
Reynor vs herO
AI Arena Tournament
1d 21h
BSL: Ladder Tournament
1d 23h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Patches Events
2 days
BSL Open Qualifier
2 days
BSL Open Qualifier
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSB
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
HCC Season 3
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.