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Poopi
France12907 Posts
Croatia seems relatively weak on paper but if they beat Brazil there is a world in which they handle Argentina as well We are favored against Morocco but so were Portugal so I am not convinced it will be a free win, free meal does not exist in football | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On December 05 2022 23:18 RKC wrote: England has enough pacy defenders to track and mark Mbappe. The real challenge, I feel, is neutralising the intelligent plays of Griezmann and Giroud, or adapt to Mbappe switching to a more central role (like against Poland). As always, the battle will be won or lost in the middle of the park. Henderson and Rice have got to be on top form. You had been warned, England! :/ | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
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don_kyuhote
3006 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
On December 11 2022 14:46 don_kyuhote wrote: ARG-GER final happened in both 1986 and 1990. Oh yeah. And Italia 90 finals was terrible (or even the entire tournament)... | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4236 Posts
It was an entertaining game no doubt. Didnt watch the Portugal game so cant really comment on that travesty of a result. Just hope its the last we see of both cronaldo and the NT coach. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18565 Posts
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justanothertownie
16321 Posts
On December 11 2022 17:57 sharkie wrote: Dont forget that argentina have lost both their left and right back due to yellow cards So far. They could lose even more or is the fifa investigation finished by now? | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On December 11 2022 06:53 Jockmcplop wrote: If it were up to me I would leave him in charge of as many 'big picture' things as possible. Maybe like a director of football type role. He's so, so good at that. It was Southgate who completely revolutionised England's youth setup before he took over the national team, and created an environment where the likes of Foden Saka and Bellingham can grow into the national team. Most nations had this decades ago, but England only caught up when Southgate was given free reign. He should stay in charge of that stuff. Yes, that upper management role fits him best. At least in the future. Now he says he needs time to 'review and reflect' on whether to continue as manager. That, to me, is a red flag highlighting one of his weakness as a tactician - decisiveness. He should have the self-awareness to know whether he's good enough to take England to the next level or not. It's a rational and not an emotional decision. It's a question of 'Can I bring home the championship" and not "Should I stay on and ride another rollercoaster to deliver the championship back home". If he thinks he's the man for the job, then stay. If he's worries about the emotional strain, then the question is no. Most national managers decide to resign or contiunue very swiftly after a tough loss. And that's a clear sign of level-headedness and clinical decision-making that's required to lead a footballing team to glory. Any player, manager or anyone involved in the team who's been knocked out of a tourney in heartbreaking fashion should be thinking "We got screwed, this isn't fair, when is the next tourney? Let's go have another go, lads! FOR AIUR / THE SWARM / CONFEDERACY!!!" | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4236 Posts
Dude interviewed Ronaldo and is now nostradamus or something comenting and getting the stage every time someone mentions cronaldo somewhere? Is he just his new PR guy and I missed it? | ||
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warding
Portugal2394 Posts
We need to get rid of FSantos. We have 4 more years of peak Bruno Fernandes, Cancelo and Bernardo Silva but there's a ton of talent there to build a contender for every tournament for the next 8-10 years. There will be a ton of games in the near future to build a new non-CR7 approach. Santos is really not the man to do it. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On December 11 2022 19:53 RKC wrote: Yes, that upper management role fits him best. At least in the future. Now he says he needs time to 'review and reflect' on whether to continue as manager. That, to me, is a red flag highlighting one of his weakness as a tactician - decisiveness. He should have the self-awareness to know whether he's good enough to take England to the next level or not. It's a rational and not an emotional decision. It's a question of 'Can I bring home the championship" and not "Should I stay on and ride another rollercoaster to deliver the championship back home". If he thinks he's the man for the job, then stay. If he's worries about the emotional strain, then the question is no. Most national managers decide to resign or contiunue very swiftly after a tough loss. And that's a clear sign of level-headedness and clinical decision-making that's required to lead a footballing team to glory. Any player, manager or anyone involved in the team who's been knocked out of a tourney in heartbreaking fashion should be thinking "We got screwed, this isn't fair, when is the next tourney? Let's go have another go, lads! FOR AIUR / THE SWARM / CONFEDERACY!!!" I think if anything it’s the opposite. Take a bit to reflect We see a lot of knee jerk international retirements into the subsequent reversing of such decisions right in the emotional aftermath of a big defeat. A manager doesn’t really get the luxury of just coming back after packing their bags. Idk I’m almost giving the appearance of a Southgate stan but for me it’s a combination of a bit of cold dissection of their tournament record, what came before and crucially who would potentially come in. I’m not a giant England fan, I tend to support them in tournaments as both Irelands and Scotland are rarely involved, but we’ve seen nadirs such as failures to qualify. Iceland under Hodgson, some of the most insipid group stage performances into a shellacking from Germany under Capello. Southgate, better results but crucially, this tournament I think the level went up a notch, despite it being the worst placing thus far. Last WC brought a semi final, but both times against Belgium, and against Croatia England froze somewhat against teams of comparable/better ability. They didn’t cruise through matches against teams on paper worse than them either. That prior criticism of England only going as far in a bracket as avoiding a really good team isn’t present I think was a fair one. This time round they did cruise pretty serenely through a group, then Senegal and then gave France as good as they got with a good performance in a 50/50 game. There’s been improvements there I think for my money they’ve looked a better, more well-rounded side than some of the other sides who’ve made it through the other side of the draw. Judging from comments here neutral fans in here have been won over into acknowledging that actually they’re a decent side these days. Mentality, group cohesion wise they’re set to conceivable win a tournament. Southgate’s built that harmony, the question is if he’s taken them as far as he can, and someone more tactically savvy is needed to push them on. Or if a new guy may actually roll back process on the group dealing with the pressures of tournament football, which may negate any additional tactical chops they bring. It’s a tricky one, not helped by timing. When Eddie Howe was out of work, and Graham Potter was ‘merely’ at Brighton you had the two ‘obvious’ next England coaches conceivably available, whereas now that is less the case. I do like the idea of Southgate in some overhead, overseer kind of role, although I wonder if that might step on the toes of the new guy coming in a little. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
Was a good shout I have to say! Giroud is in the category of ‘so many people say he’s underrated he’s no longer underrated’, Griezman to my money is just criminally underrated. I think broadly England did a good job, it’s impossible to keep players 100% quiet at this level, you just have to hope they don’t take their moments the 1-2 times. And they actually did keep Mbappe reasonably quiet. The flip-side the French did a fine job on keeping Bellingham from surging, or Foden from roaming and being too influential. But Saka did get some joy and while the penalty miss will be the takeaway I think Kane had a good game. Almost won a penalty, fashioned a few fine saves from Lloris and also had some joy when he was dropping deeper. Hey I was a bit disappointed in the result but what you want to see in a WC knockout game, two quality teams really pushing each other. Based on what I’ve seen so far it could have been a fitting final but the bracket is the bracket. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28735 Posts
I don't think England really needs to do any soul searching after this. They overall looked the slightly better team against the reigning champions and current favorites to win it all, and they missed out on extra time because they missed a penalty. Good effort. Didn't work out. | ||
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Poopi
France12907 Posts
On December 11 2022 23:55 Liquid`Drone wrote: Virtually every time Mbappe had the ball in a dangerous position England positioned one player to challenge him and another one 2-3 meters behind. This ends up making Mbappe look kinda mediocre but it obviously opens up room for others. I don't think England really needs to do any soul searching after this. They overall looked the slightly better team against the reigning champions and current favorites to win it all, and they missed out on extra time because they missed a penalty. Good effort. Didn't work out. Yeah it just creates openings so even if Mbappe can’t do flashy things, he forces too many players on him which gives opportunities to his teammates. Same thing happens in basketball except since there are only 5 players in bbal, depending on rules you can have a one man carry (nba rules) or need teamwork (fiba rules). Giroud is a bit slow but he can score from corners / free kicks with a good head game or when he doesn’t need to run a ton, while Griezmann has good creativity as well. The semifinals will be interesting | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On December 11 2022 23:21 WombaT wrote: Was a good shout I have to say! Giroud is in the category of ‘so many people say he’s underrated he’s no longer underrated’, Griezman to my money is just criminally underrated. I think broadly England did a good job, it’s impossible to keep players 100% quiet at this level, you just have to hope they don’t take their moments the 1-2 times. And they actually did keep Mbappe reasonably quiet. The flip-side the French did a fine job on keeping Bellingham from surging, or Foden from roaming and being too influential. But Saka did get some joy and while the penalty miss will be the takeaway I think Kane had a good game. Almost won a penalty, fashioned a few fine saves from Lloris and also had some joy when he was dropping deeper. Hey I was a bit disappointed in the result but what you want to see in a WC knockout game, two quality teams really pushing each other. Based on what I’ve seen so far it could have been a fitting final but the bracket is the bracket. This is just my take on the difference between why the overall setup for France was more superior than England. Deschamps has created a system for his players to excel as a unit. If one player underperforms, another can step up. There's a Plan A, Plan B, and Plan C. It's likely he anticipated England will neutralise Mbappe. But he's confident others like Giroud, Griezmann, and Dembele can trouble England even if Mbappe is subdued. Southgate also has many plans in mind. And he tinkers during the lead-up during the WC. But once the WC kicks in and players start to perform at different levels, he goes all-in on a plan. And for this WC, the attack plan was Bellingam and Saka. But the problem is that he hasn't quite figured any Plan B or Plan C. Or maybe he knows, but tends to react too late in making substitutions. His fault perhaps lies in trusting the in-form players too much. He isn't flexible enough to change plans and switch gears midway through the match or even tournament. If you look back at the past WC, the top European teams roughly adopt the French approach - Spain in 2010 and Germany 2014. They don't depend on 2-3 players to create chances and score goals. Their defenders and holding midfielders are ready to step up to find spaces and contribute in attack. Their tactics are fluid. The perfect example is France winning the WC in 2018 with Giroud playing all games and not scoring a single goal. And now, he's banging goals for fun. In both WC, he has contributed in different ways. The only established player in England who has evolved from tournament to tournament is Kane. I don't know what exactly was Deschamps' Plan A yesterday. But despite England being more dominant, France looked rather confortable and had a good gameplan in neutralising England's strike force (although with a lot of use of dark arts - tactical fouling). The penalties conceded were due to some poor lapse of judgment and concentration. Southgate could've done better by making changes earlier to mess up with the opposition's minds and flow. There was just not enough time for the attacking substitutes to settle in and make an impact (Mount winning the penalty was rather lucky). It would've have been interesting if England had taken the lead and France became the team that had to make a change. But I'm fairly confident Deschamps would've executed Plan B and Plan C much quicker. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On December 11 2022 23:55 Liquid`Drone wrote: Virtually every time Mbappe had the ball in a dangerous position England positioned one player to challenge him and another one 2-3 meters behind. This ends up making Mbappe look kinda mediocre but it obviously opens up room for others. I don't think England really needs to do any soul searching after this. They overall looked the slightly better team against the reigning champions and current favorites to win it all, and they missed out on extra time because they missed a penalty. Good effort. Didn't work out. Yes, as per my previous post, a lot of people (and maybe even the English players and coaches) got lulled into a false sense of security. "Wow, we've kept Mbappe quiet, it's coming home, baby!" But they really undersestimated the rest of the French squad. It's amazing that even without Benzema, France could find a way to dig deep into their reserves. Giroud and Griezmann deserves a lot of plaudits for filling the void. | ||
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Dan HH
Romania9152 Posts
On December 11 2022 23:55 Liquid`Drone wrote: I don't think England really needs to do any soul searching after this. They overall looked the slightly better team against the reigning champions and current favorites to win it all, and they missed out on extra time because they missed a penalty. Good effort. Didn't work out. At these margins you play against the scoreline moreso than you play against your opponent. England were a goal down for most of the match, if you reverse the evolution of the scoreline I guarantee France would have put 5x more pressure on England than England was able to put on them. They did fine but I can't say they looked the better team in these circumstances. | ||
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Poopi
France12907 Posts
On December 12 2022 00:51 Dan HH wrote: At these margins you play against the scoreline moreso than you play against your opponent. England were a goal down for most of the match, if you reverse the evolution of the scoreline I guarantee France would have put 5x more pressure on England than England was able to put on them. They did fine but I can't say they looked the better team in these circumstances. Yeah like France vs Argentina in WC 2018: both teams were put to their limit so there were far more goals. Deschamps is a good strategist and tactician, he has no interest in trying to win by more than one goal if he is one goal ahead imho. Especially after WC 2006, where France had incredibly beautiful matches vs Spain, Brasil, etc. but Italy won in the end playing "ugly" football. At this point France vs Belgium 2018 is welcome: we need realism since winning the cup is more important than trying to do it with fashion but ultimately losing. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On December 12 2022 01:05 Poopi wrote: Yeah like France vs Argentina in WC 2018: both teams were put to their limit so there were far more goals. Deschamps is a good strategist and tactician, he has no interest in trying to win by more than one goal if he is one goal ahead imho. Especially after WC 2006, where France had incredibly beautiful matches vs Spain, Brasil, etc. but Italy won in the end playing "ugly" football. At this point France vs Belgium 2018 is welcome: we need realism since winning the cup is more important than trying to do it with fashion but ultimately losing. Yes, I see a lot of similarity between yesterday's game with the France v Belgium semi final game last WC. Belgium looked to be more dominant and created a lot of chances. But France scored through an unlikely source (Umiti) and held on well. The game looked even or slightly Belgium favoured only because France had the lead. It was a tough match to watch as I was rooting for Belgium. But after thinking through about the whole game, France deserved to win. Deschamps won the tactical battle of wits over Martinez. | ||
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