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On December 03 2022 06:21 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2022 06:10 justanothertownie wrote:
So did any team perform while rotating? Brazil and Portugal would have deserved each other. Not really. No team went 3 for 3, can't remember the last time that happened in groups
All 3 teams (France, Portugal, Brazil) that started 2-0 lost their 3rd game generally playing like ass.
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On December 03 2022 06:57 sharkie wrote:
I still think the game aginst Japan is not thr one that should be talked about. Everyone can have one unlucky loss. But the reaction after that game by Germany was just weak.
Only going for draw against Spain or leading only 1-0 vs cosza tica at halftime
It is exactly the one that should be talked about since it is the one that was lost. Unnecessarily. Yes, they also should have won against Spain but in that game they at least played much better. And against Costa Rica it wasn't really in Germanys hands anymore. That is too late to find the reasons for this failure and the game was won with 2 goals which met the minimum requirement.
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On December 03 2022 06:55 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2022 06:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 02 2022 22:38 justanothertownie wrote:On December 02 2022 22:20 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 02 2022 14:47 don_kyuhote wrote:On December 02 2022 08:43 Stratos_speAr wrote:
This team will go nowhere and will embarass themselves at home in 2024 if they keep him around. Flick and the older generation (e.g. Neuer, Gundogan, Muller, etc.) all need to go. Start completely new. Start completely fresh. Build around younger players like Moukoko and Musiala. There may be some growing pains but it's better than the apathetic crap we've been stuck with for a solid 6 years.
Looks like they used up all their WC luck on that 7-1 clobbering of Brazil. Ever since that game, they had to really labor for a win at the WC at best. 2014 Final - W in OT 2018 - L, W (at the last second), L, out early 2022 - L, D, W (at the last 5 min), out early It's crazy. Out of nearly 700 minutes of playing time since that 7-1, Germany had the lead for like 55 minutes at the WC since then? 2016 Euro's was alright, but everything since then has been bad. They got trounced in the first season of the Nation's League and have been a non-factor in that competition since then. They backed into the knockouts of EURO20 and then get bounced in the RO16. And of course two group stage exits from the WC with a total record of 2-1-3. This has really been an absolutely awful 6 years for this team. I think they need to move onto something like this lineup, including a complete coaching overhaul as well: Moukoko Wirtz/Musiala/Sane Goretzka/Kimmich Raum/Schlotterbeck/Sule/Klostermann(??) Ter Stegen Werner/Havertz/Brandt/Gnabry would make up some solid depth. Add a bunch of youth prospects/role players to round out the bench. I think that lineup would be better than anything we showed at this tournament, and with the time for players like Moukoko, Wirtz, Havertz, and Schlotti to develop, it would only be better at EURO24. If my Googling was correct, this would also mean that the only player 30+ years old starting would be Ter Stegen and almost no one from the WC-winning squad would be left. I honestly think this is needed; it would inject much-needed hunger, creativity, and pace into the squad. I agree with the offense part mostly. Depends a lot on how good moukoku will turn out to be. The players you put in the defense are the ones that have been playing a lot this wc and are simply not good enough though. They would have to improve a lot. And Brandt should not play a role in anyones plans for the future... Brandt has had a fantastic year so far and has been one of the few consistently good players for BVB. As for the defense, people love blaming the defense for these national teams, but the reality is that the best defense is a good offense when you are constantly facing teams that park the bus. Your offense needs to produce to relieve pressure off of your defense, which will inevitably succumb to counterattacking football if you can't score, but if you put 2 balls in the back of the net before 30 minutes, the opposing team is going to have a lot tougher time rallying to give you a shock defeat, both logistically and psychologically. If Germany's offense hadn't been so inept, they could've been up by several goals before halftime against Japan. If that was the case, you'd be hard-pressed to argue that Japan would have scored their counterattacking goals in the same way, and even if they did, they still would've lost. Counter attacking goal? After their free kick? Please. That was just awful defending. Thanks to süle and "schlotti".
This statement doesn't really mean anything or contradict what I said?
And while the defense was far from great, Neuer was actually really, really bad. He was pretty heavily responsible for both Costa Rica goals, Japan's 2nd, and even played it poorly on Japan's 1st and Spain's goal.
It is exactly the one that should be talked about since it is the one that was lost. Unnecessarily. Yes, they also should have won against Spain but in that game they at least played much better. And against Costa Rica it wasn't really in Germanys hands anymore. That is too late to find the reasons for this failure and the game was won with 2 goals which met the minimum requirement.
Hard disagree.
Japan was able to pull it off not once, but twice, and took 1st in the group. This tells me that you can't just blame everything on that single game.
Not losing to them would obviously have been great but there were a multitude of situations in each game that an individual performance could've gone better. Neuer had a terrible World Cup. Sane didn't even shoot in that final breakaway vs. Spain. Germany had multiple other legitimate chances vs Spain. Spain was able to put 7 past Costa Rica and Germany really had no excuse to not put up similar numbers which would've given them the ability to control their own destiny. Flick made ridiculous lineup decisions in all 3 games.
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I haven't followed the thread so maybe someone already mentioned it. I just wanted to say that there is some poetic justice in Ghana eliminating Uruguay. Back in 2010 WC, Uruguay eliminated Ghana in one of the dirtiest ways possible, with Suarez's handball. Bunch of sore losers. Good riddance.
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On December 03 2022 07:56 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2022 06:55 justanothertownie wrote:On December 03 2022 06:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 02 2022 22:38 justanothertownie wrote:On December 02 2022 22:20 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 02 2022 14:47 don_kyuhote wrote:On December 02 2022 08:43 Stratos_speAr wrote:
This team will go nowhere and will embarass themselves at home in 2024 if they keep him around. Flick and the older generation (e.g. Neuer, Gundogan, Muller, etc.) all need to go. Start completely new. Start completely fresh. Build around younger players like Moukoko and Musiala. There may be some growing pains but it's better than the apathetic crap we've been stuck with for a solid 6 years.
Looks like they used up all their WC luck on that 7-1 clobbering of Brazil. Ever since that game, they had to really labor for a win at the WC at best. 2014 Final - W in OT 2018 - L, W (at the last second), L, out early 2022 - L, D, W (at the last 5 min), out early It's crazy. Out of nearly 700 minutes of playing time since that 7-1, Germany had the lead for like 55 minutes at the WC since then? 2016 Euro's was alright, but everything since then has been bad. They got trounced in the first season of the Nation's League and have been a non-factor in that competition since then. They backed into the knockouts of EURO20 and then get bounced in the RO16. And of course two group stage exits from the WC with a total record of 2-1-3. This has really been an absolutely awful 6 years for this team. I think they need to move onto something like this lineup, including a complete coaching overhaul as well: Moukoko Wirtz/Musiala/Sane Goretzka/Kimmich Raum/Schlotterbeck/Sule/Klostermann(??) Ter Stegen Werner/Havertz/Brandt/Gnabry would make up some solid depth. Add a bunch of youth prospects/role players to round out the bench. I think that lineup would be better than anything we showed at this tournament, and with the time for players like Moukoko, Wirtz, Havertz, and Schlotti to develop, it would only be better at EURO24. If my Googling was correct, this would also mean that the only player 30+ years old starting would be Ter Stegen and almost no one from the WC-winning squad would be left. I honestly think this is needed; it would inject much-needed hunger, creativity, and pace into the squad. I agree with the offense part mostly. Depends a lot on how good moukoku will turn out to be. The players you put in the defense are the ones that have been playing a lot this wc and are simply not good enough though. They would have to improve a lot. And Brandt should not play a role in anyones plans for the future... Brandt has had a fantastic year so far and has been one of the few consistently good players for BVB. As for the defense, people love blaming the defense for these national teams, but the reality is that the best defense is a good offense when you are constantly facing teams that park the bus. Your offense needs to produce to relieve pressure off of your defense, which will inevitably succumb to counterattacking football if you can't score, but if you put 2 balls in the back of the net before 30 minutes, the opposing team is going to have a lot tougher time rallying to give you a shock defeat, both logistically and psychologically. If Germany's offense hadn't been so inept, they could've been up by several goals before halftime against Japan. If that was the case, you'd be hard-pressed to argue that Japan would have scored their counterattacking goals in the same way, and even if they did, they still would've lost. Counter attacking goal? After their free kick? Please. That was just awful defending. Thanks to süle and "schlotti". This statement doesn't really mean anything or contradict what I said? And while the defense was far from great, Neuer was actually really, really bad. He was pretty heavily responsible for both Costa Rica goals, Japan's 2nd, and even played it poorly on Japan's 1st and Spain's goal.
Well, I would say a set piece of Japan which directly leads to a goal represents pretty much the opposite of a counter attacking goal.
I agree though, Neuer also had a bad tournament for his standards. Maybe it is time to let someone else have his shot.
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On December 03 2022 07:56 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2022 06:55 justanothertownie wrote:On December 03 2022 06:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 02 2022 22:38 justanothertownie wrote:On December 02 2022 22:20 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 02 2022 14:47 don_kyuhote wrote:On December 02 2022 08:43 Stratos_speAr wrote:
This team will go nowhere and will embarass themselves at home in 2024 if they keep him around. Flick and the older generation (e.g. Neuer, Gundogan, Muller, etc.) all need to go. Start completely new. Start completely fresh. Build around younger players like Moukoko and Musiala. There may be some growing pains but it's better than the apathetic crap we've been stuck with for a solid 6 years.
Looks like they used up all their WC luck on that 7-1 clobbering of Brazil. Ever since that game, they had to really labor for a win at the WC at best. 2014 Final - W in OT 2018 - L, W (at the last second), L, out early 2022 - L, D, W (at the last 5 min), out early It's crazy. Out of nearly 700 minutes of playing time since that 7-1, Germany had the lead for like 55 minutes at the WC since then? 2016 Euro's was alright, but everything since then has been bad. They got trounced in the first season of the Nation's League and have been a non-factor in that competition since then. They backed into the knockouts of EURO20 and then get bounced in the RO16. And of course two group stage exits from the WC with a total record of 2-1-3. This has really been an absolutely awful 6 years for this team. I think they need to move onto something like this lineup, including a complete coaching overhaul as well: Moukoko Wirtz/Musiala/Sane Goretzka/Kimmich Raum/Schlotterbeck/Sule/Klostermann(??) Ter Stegen Werner/Havertz/Brandt/Gnabry would make up some solid depth. Add a bunch of youth prospects/role players to round out the bench. I think that lineup would be better than anything we showed at this tournament, and with the time for players like Moukoko, Wirtz, Havertz, and Schlotti to develop, it would only be better at EURO24. If my Googling was correct, this would also mean that the only player 30+ years old starting would be Ter Stegen and almost no one from the WC-winning squad would be left. I honestly think this is needed; it would inject much-needed hunger, creativity, and pace into the squad. I agree with the offense part mostly. Depends a lot on how good moukoku will turn out to be. The players you put in the defense are the ones that have been playing a lot this wc and are simply not good enough though. They would have to improve a lot. And Brandt should not play a role in anyones plans for the future... Brandt has had a fantastic year so far and has been one of the few consistently good players for BVB. As for the defense, people love blaming the defense for these national teams, but the reality is that the best defense is a good offense when you are constantly facing teams that park the bus. Your offense needs to produce to relieve pressure off of your defense, which will inevitably succumb to counterattacking football if you can't score, but if you put 2 balls in the back of the net before 30 minutes, the opposing team is going to have a lot tougher time rallying to give you a shock defeat, both logistically and psychologically. If Germany's offense hadn't been so inept, they could've been up by several goals before halftime against Japan. If that was the case, you'd be hard-pressed to argue that Japan would have scored their counterattacking goals in the same way, and even if they did, they still would've lost. Counter attacking goal? After their free kick? Please. That was just awful defending. Thanks to süle and "schlotti". This statement doesn't really mean anything or contradict what I said? And while the defense was far from great, Neuer was actually really, really bad. He was pretty heavily responsible for both Costa Rica goals, Japan's 2nd, and even played it poorly on Japan's 1st and Spain's goal. Show nested quote +It is exactly the one that should be talked about since it is the one that was lost. Unnecessarily. Yes, they also should have won against Spain but in that game they at least played much better. And against Costa Rica it wasn't really in Germanys hands anymore. That is too late to find the reasons for this failure and the game was won with 2 goals which met the minimum requirement. Hard disagree. Japan was able to pull it off not once, but twice, and took 1st in the group. This tells me that you can't just blame everything on that single game. Not losing to them would obviously have been great but there were a multitude of situations in each game that an individual performance could've gone better. Neuer had a terrible World Cup. Sane didn't even shoot in that final breakaway vs. Spain. Germany had multiple other legitimate chances vs Spain. Spain was able to put 7 past Costa Rica and Germany really had no excuse to not put up similar numbers which would've given them the ability to control their own destiny. Flick made ridiculous lineup decisions in all 3 games.
Come on now. You think it makes more sense to question not winning with 7 goals against Costa Rica instead of the loss against japan? I think we can just agree to disagree at this point.
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On December 03 2022 07:05 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2022 06:57 sharkie wrote:
I still think the game aginst Japan is not thr one that should be talked about. Everyone can have one unlucky loss. But the reaction after that game by Germany was just weak.
Only going for draw against Spain or leading only 1-0 vs cosza tica at halftime It is exactly the one that should be talked about since it is the one that was lost. Unnecessarily. Yes, they also should have won against Spain but in that game they at least played much better. And against Costa Rica it wasn't really in Germanys hands anymore. That is too late to find the reasons for this failure and the game was won with 2 goals which met the minimum requirement.
Müller said the same crap after the costa rica game. If Germany had played half the football they did after costa rica scored the 2-1 Germany would have easily scored 7+ goals vs costa rica. But they only did after they were behind and noticed that Japan was winning against Spain. There was no sense of urgency by Germany in the first half.
Do you think Japan would have had such an easy game vs Spain if Germany had lead by 4 goals at one point?
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Would have be so fun to see the spanish faces if brazil finished second in its group....
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Netherlands6273 Posts
On December 03 2022 07:56 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2022 06:55 justanothertownie wrote:On December 03 2022 06:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 02 2022 22:38 justanothertownie wrote:On December 02 2022 22:20 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 02 2022 14:47 don_kyuhote wrote:On December 02 2022 08:43 Stratos_speAr wrote:
This team will go nowhere and will embarass themselves at home in 2024 if they keep him around. Flick and the older generation (e.g. Neuer, Gundogan, Muller, etc.) all need to go. Start completely new. Start completely fresh. Build around younger players like Moukoko and Musiala. There may be some growing pains but it's better than the apathetic crap we've been stuck with for a solid 6 years.
Looks like they used up all their WC luck on that 7-1 clobbering of Brazil. Ever since that game, they had to really labor for a win at the WC at best. 2014 Final - W in OT 2018 - L, W (at the last second), L, out early 2022 - L, D, W (at the last 5 min), out early It's crazy. Out of nearly 700 minutes of playing time since that 7-1, Germany had the lead for like 55 minutes at the WC since then? 2016 Euro's was alright, but everything since then has been bad. They got trounced in the first season of the Nation's League and have been a non-factor in that competition since then. They backed into the knockouts of EURO20 and then get bounced in the RO16. And of course two group stage exits from the WC with a total record of 2-1-3. This has really been an absolutely awful 6 years for this team. I think they need to move onto something like this lineup, including a complete coaching overhaul as well: Moukoko Wirtz/Musiala/Sane Goretzka/Kimmich Raum/Schlotterbeck/Sule/Klostermann(??) Ter Stegen Werner/Havertz/Brandt/Gnabry would make up some solid depth. Add a bunch of youth prospects/role players to round out the bench. I think that lineup would be better than anything we showed at this tournament, and with the time for players like Moukoko, Wirtz, Havertz, and Schlotti to develop, it would only be better at EURO24. If my Googling was correct, this would also mean that the only player 30+ years old starting would be Ter Stegen and almost no one from the WC-winning squad would be left. I honestly think this is needed; it would inject much-needed hunger, creativity, and pace into the squad. I agree with the offense part mostly. Depends a lot on how good moukoku will turn out to be. The players you put in the defense are the ones that have been playing a lot this wc and are simply not good enough though. They would have to improve a lot. And Brandt should not play a role in anyones plans for the future... Brandt has had a fantastic year so far and has been one of the few consistently good players for BVB. As for the defense, people love blaming the defense for these national teams, but the reality is that the best defense is a good offense when you are constantly facing teams that park the bus. Your offense needs to produce to relieve pressure off of your defense, which will inevitably succumb to counterattacking football if you can't score, but if you put 2 balls in the back of the net before 30 minutes, the opposing team is going to have a lot tougher time rallying to give you a shock defeat, both logistically and psychologically. If Germany's offense hadn't been so inept, they could've been up by several goals before halftime against Japan. If that was the case, you'd be hard-pressed to argue that Japan would have scored their counterattacking goals in the same way, and even if they did, they still would've lost. Counter attacking goal? After their free kick? Please. That was just awful defending. Thanks to süle and "schlotti". This statement doesn't really mean anything or contradict what I said? And while the defense was far from great, Neuer was actually really, really bad. He was pretty heavily responsible for both Costa Rica goals, Japan's 2nd, and even played it poorly on Japan's 1st and Spain's goal. Show nested quote +It is exactly the one that should be talked about since it is the one that was lost. Unnecessarily. Yes, they also should have won against Spain but in that game they at least played much better. And against Costa Rica it wasn't really in Germanys hands anymore. That is too late to find the reasons for this failure and the game was won with 2 goals which met the minimum requirement. Hard disagree. Japan was able to pull it off not once, but twice, and took 1st in the group. This tells me that you can't just blame everything on that single game. Not losing to them would obviously have been great but there were a multitude of situations in each game that an individual performance could've gone better. Neuer had a terrible World Cup. Sane didn't even shoot in that final breakaway vs. Spain. Germany had multiple other legitimate chances vs Spain. Spain was able to put 7 past Costa Rica and Germany really had no excuse to not put up similar numbers which would've given them the ability to control their own destiny. Flick made ridiculous lineup decisions in all 3 games.
You can't expect to win a game by seven goals. That almost never happens. If you have to rely on your forwards to score seven in one game you've already lost. Four is as much as you can realistically expect.
Conceding five in three games with four of those coming from Japan and Costa Rica is the real problem. If you defend like that you're never getting far in the tournament.
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Morocco, Spain, and Portugal all bunched together is a nice Group B reunion from the last WC.
Australia, Japan, Croatia, and Brazil are also bunched together (at least visually) and they were the 4 teams from the Group F in 2006 WC.
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On December 03 2022 15:15 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2022 07:56 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 03 2022 06:55 justanothertownie wrote:On December 03 2022 06:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 02 2022 22:38 justanothertownie wrote:On December 02 2022 22:20 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 02 2022 14:47 don_kyuhote wrote:On December 02 2022 08:43 Stratos_speAr wrote:
This team will go nowhere and will embarass themselves at home in 2024 if they keep him around. Flick and the older generation (e.g. Neuer, Gundogan, Muller, etc.) all need to go. Start completely new. Start completely fresh. Build around younger players like Moukoko and Musiala. There may be some growing pains but it's better than the apathetic crap we've been stuck with for a solid 6 years.
Looks like they used up all their WC luck on that 7-1 clobbering of Brazil. Ever since that game, they had to really labor for a win at the WC at best. 2014 Final - W in OT 2018 - L, W (at the last second), L, out early 2022 - L, D, W (at the last 5 min), out early It's crazy. Out of nearly 700 minutes of playing time since that 7-1, Germany had the lead for like 55 minutes at the WC since then? 2016 Euro's was alright, but everything since then has been bad. They got trounced in the first season of the Nation's League and have been a non-factor in that competition since then. They backed into the knockouts of EURO20 and then get bounced in the RO16. And of course two group stage exits from the WC with a total record of 2-1-3. This has really been an absolutely awful 6 years for this team. I think they need to move onto something like this lineup, including a complete coaching overhaul as well: Moukoko Wirtz/Musiala/Sane Goretzka/Kimmich Raum/Schlotterbeck/Sule/Klostermann(??) Ter Stegen Werner/Havertz/Brandt/Gnabry would make up some solid depth. Add a bunch of youth prospects/role players to round out the bench. I think that lineup would be better than anything we showed at this tournament, and with the time for players like Moukoko, Wirtz, Havertz, and Schlotti to develop, it would only be better at EURO24. If my Googling was correct, this would also mean that the only player 30+ years old starting would be Ter Stegen and almost no one from the WC-winning squad would be left. I honestly think this is needed; it would inject much-needed hunger, creativity, and pace into the squad. I agree with the offense part mostly. Depends a lot on how good moukoku will turn out to be. The players you put in the defense are the ones that have been playing a lot this wc and are simply not good enough though. They would have to improve a lot. And Brandt should not play a role in anyones plans for the future... Brandt has had a fantastic year so far and has been one of the few consistently good players for BVB. As for the defense, people love blaming the defense for these national teams, but the reality is that the best defense is a good offense when you are constantly facing teams that park the bus. Your offense needs to produce to relieve pressure off of your defense, which will inevitably succumb to counterattacking football if you can't score, but if you put 2 balls in the back of the net before 30 minutes, the opposing team is going to have a lot tougher time rallying to give you a shock defeat, both logistically and psychologically. If Germany's offense hadn't been so inept, they could've been up by several goals before halftime against Japan. If that was the case, you'd be hard-pressed to argue that Japan would have scored their counterattacking goals in the same way, and even if they did, they still would've lost. Counter attacking goal? After their free kick? Please. That was just awful defending. Thanks to süle and "schlotti". This statement doesn't really mean anything or contradict what I said? And while the defense was far from great, Neuer was actually really, really bad. He was pretty heavily responsible for both Costa Rica goals, Japan's 2nd, and even played it poorly on Japan's 1st and Spain's goal. It is exactly the one that should be talked about since it is the one that was lost. Unnecessarily. Yes, they also should have won against Spain but in that game they at least played much better. And against Costa Rica it wasn't really in Germanys hands anymore. That is too late to find the reasons for this failure and the game was won with 2 goals which met the minimum requirement. Hard disagree. Japan was able to pull it off not once, but twice, and took 1st in the group. This tells me that you can't just blame everything on that single game. Not losing to them would obviously have been great but there were a multitude of situations in each game that an individual performance could've gone better. Neuer had a terrible World Cup. Sane didn't even shoot in that final breakaway vs. Spain. Germany had multiple other legitimate chances vs Spain. Spain was able to put 7 past Costa Rica and Germany really had no excuse to not put up similar numbers which would've given them the ability to control their own destiny. Flick made ridiculous lineup decisions in all 3 games. You can't expect to win a game by seven goals. That almost never happens. If you have to rely on your forwards to score seven in one game you've already lost. Four is as much as you can realistically expect. Conceding five in three games with four of those coming from Japan and Costa Rica is the real problem. If you defend like that you're never getting far in the tournament.
You cant expect yes but Ou can at least try. And if 3 goals can be scored in 10min then another 3 goals can be scored in 80
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Netherlands6273 Posts
On December 03 2022 16:27 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2022 15:15 RvB wrote:On December 03 2022 07:56 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 03 2022 06:55 justanothertownie wrote:On December 03 2022 06:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 02 2022 22:38 justanothertownie wrote:On December 02 2022 22:20 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 02 2022 14:47 don_kyuhote wrote:On December 02 2022 08:43 Stratos_speAr wrote:
This team will go nowhere and will embarass themselves at home in 2024 if they keep him around. Flick and the older generation (e.g. Neuer, Gundogan, Muller, etc.) all need to go. Start completely new. Start completely fresh. Build around younger players like Moukoko and Musiala. There may be some growing pains but it's better than the apathetic crap we've been stuck with for a solid 6 years.
Looks like they used up all their WC luck on that 7-1 clobbering of Brazil. Ever since that game, they had to really labor for a win at the WC at best. 2014 Final - W in OT 2018 - L, W (at the last second), L, out early 2022 - L, D, W (at the last 5 min), out early It's crazy. Out of nearly 700 minutes of playing time since that 7-1, Germany had the lead for like 55 minutes at the WC since then? 2016 Euro's was alright, but everything since then has been bad. They got trounced in the first season of the Nation's League and have been a non-factor in that competition since then. They backed into the knockouts of EURO20 and then get bounced in the RO16. And of course two group stage exits from the WC with a total record of 2-1-3. This has really been an absolutely awful 6 years for this team. I think they need to move onto something like this lineup, including a complete coaching overhaul as well: Moukoko Wirtz/Musiala/Sane Goretzka/Kimmich Raum/Schlotterbeck/Sule/Klostermann(??) Ter Stegen Werner/Havertz/Brandt/Gnabry would make up some solid depth. Add a bunch of youth prospects/role players to round out the bench. I think that lineup would be better than anything we showed at this tournament, and with the time for players like Moukoko, Wirtz, Havertz, and Schlotti to develop, it would only be better at EURO24. If my Googling was correct, this would also mean that the only player 30+ years old starting would be Ter Stegen and almost no one from the WC-winning squad would be left. I honestly think this is needed; it would inject much-needed hunger, creativity, and pace into the squad. I agree with the offense part mostly. Depends a lot on how good moukoku will turn out to be. The players you put in the defense are the ones that have been playing a lot this wc and are simply not good enough though. They would have to improve a lot. And Brandt should not play a role in anyones plans for the future... Brandt has had a fantastic year so far and has been one of the few consistently good players for BVB. As for the defense, people love blaming the defense for these national teams, but the reality is that the best defense is a good offense when you are constantly facing teams that park the bus. Your offense needs to produce to relieve pressure off of your defense, which will inevitably succumb to counterattacking football if you can't score, but if you put 2 balls in the back of the net before 30 minutes, the opposing team is going to have a lot tougher time rallying to give you a shock defeat, both logistically and psychologically. If Germany's offense hadn't been so inept, they could've been up by several goals before halftime against Japan. If that was the case, you'd be hard-pressed to argue that Japan would have scored their counterattacking goals in the same way, and even if they did, they still would've lost. Counter attacking goal? After their free kick? Please. That was just awful defending. Thanks to süle and "schlotti". This statement doesn't really mean anything or contradict what I said? And while the defense was far from great, Neuer was actually really, really bad. He was pretty heavily responsible for both Costa Rica goals, Japan's 2nd, and even played it poorly on Japan's 1st and Spain's goal. It is exactly the one that should be talked about since it is the one that was lost. Unnecessarily. Yes, they also should have won against Spain but in that game they at least played much better. And against Costa Rica it wasn't really in Germanys hands anymore. That is too late to find the reasons for this failure and the game was won with 2 goals which met the minimum requirement. Hard disagree. Japan was able to pull it off not once, but twice, and took 1st in the group. This tells me that you can't just blame everything on that single game. Not losing to them would obviously have been great but there were a multitude of situations in each game that an individual performance could've gone better. Neuer had a terrible World Cup. Sane didn't even shoot in that final breakaway vs. Spain. Germany had multiple other legitimate chances vs Spain. Spain was able to put 7 past Costa Rica and Germany really had no excuse to not put up similar numbers which would've given them the ability to control their own destiny. Flick made ridiculous lineup decisions in all 3 games. You can't expect to win a game by seven goals. That almost never happens. If you have to rely on your forwards to score seven in one game you've already lost. Four is as much as you can realistically expect. Conceding five in three games with four of those coming from Japan and Costa Rica is the real problem. If you defend like that you're never getting far in the tournament. You cant expect yes but Ou can at least try. And if 3 goals can be scored in 10min then another 3 goals can be scored in 80
Yes you can try. That doesn't mean it's the reason you're out of the group.
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On December 03 2022 08:17 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2022 07:05 justanothertownie wrote:On December 03 2022 06:57 sharkie wrote:
I still think the game aginst Japan is not thr one that should be talked about. Everyone can have one unlucky loss. But the reaction after that game by Germany was just weak.
Only going for draw against Spain or leading only 1-0 vs cosza tica at halftime It is exactly the one that should be talked about since it is the one that was lost. Unnecessarily. Yes, they also should have won against Spain but in that game they at least played much better. And against Costa Rica it wasn't really in Germanys hands anymore. That is too late to find the reasons for this failure and the game was won with 2 goals which met the minimum requirement. Müller said the same crap after the costa rica game. If Germany had played half the football they did after costa rica scored the 2-1 Germany would have easily scored 7+ goals vs costa rica. But they only did after they were behind and noticed that Japan was winning against Spain. There was no sense of urgency by Germany in the first half. Do you think Japan would have had such an easy game vs Spain if Germany had lead by 4 goals at one point?
For someone who sees people disrespecting Japan everywhere you sure are disrespecting Costa Rica a lot.
Sorry, but winning against Japan is easier and should be the more expexted result than winning against Costa Rica with a difference of 7-8 goals.
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On December 03 2022 08:48 Mafe wrote:
Would have be so fun to see the spanish faces if brazil finished second in its group....
Portugal you mean?
Yeah that would go against the plan indeed.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Some juicy quarterfinals on paper could exist! England vs France, Spain vs Portugal, however with how this world cup is going i doubt we will see them lol
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On the one hand it'd be interesting to see the US going far in the tournament, on the other, there's an iconic QR matchup brewi...DENNIS BERGKAMP!!! DENNIS BERGKAMP!!! DENNIS BERGKAMP!!!!!!
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Netherlands6273 Posts
On December 04 2022 00:09 plasmidghost wrote:
Loving the US so far. Really pushing the attack and not giving the Netherlands time to really counter. We might actually win this
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EPT
