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Yes, GD is the first tie-breaker. Doesn't seem exactly fair. But for a group of just four teams, GD is better in terms of ensuring that advancement goes down to the wire, and lessen dead rubbers in the third round and teams benefiting from the 'luck' of the match schedule.
For example, if H2H was used instead, Portugal's first place would be secure (as they had beaten Ghana and can't be caught any other team). Portugal would then be able to rest players and SK would get an easier ride than Uruguay and Ghana simply because SK played the far superior team (Portugal) as the last game due to luck of the draw.
Also, GD encourages teams to score for more goals rather than just defending after taking the lead. Although this only comes into effect in the third round of games as teams won't simply risk looking for more goals in the first or even second game.
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Norway28792 Posts
I definitely prefer GD over h2h as the first tie break, for the reasons you cite, but I also think it is more fair overall. Most importantly it gives teams more agency going into the final match.
Like if h2h was the first tie break, Germany would have 0 chance at advancing in the event of a spanish-japanese draw. H2h first is used in the European championship, but there have been examples where it was controversial. In 2004 there was a group with Sweden, Denmark, Italy and Bulgaria where Sweden and Denmark both beat Bulgaria and played 1-1 and 0-0 ties against Italy in the first rounds. That meant that if Sweden and Denmark played a 2-2 draw, Italy had 0 chance at advancing, even though them beating Bulgaria would leave all teams with five points. Sweden and Denmark did end up with a 2-2 draw, and I recall some foul play allegations. (To be fair, Italy was also behind on overall GD, but swe-den knowing of a result that ensured both advancing proor to the final game still strikes me as a bit unfortunate. Had it been GD as the first determiner, Denmark would've had way higher incentive to try to win the final game.)
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Hadn't thought of that, maybe because Portugal is never in position to qualify for things early. lol
Need to vent this out: worldwide coverage of Portugal in this World Cup is insufferable due to the constant focus on Ronaldo. It already got old like 4 tournaments ago. It makes for great headlines to focus on Ronaldo's pettiness, but honestly he isn't the story of this Portugal team.
This team features players in every position who wouldn't be out of place as starters in a Champions League finals (maybe save Ruben Neves and William but they're solid players and you could play Danilo there anyway) . I mean, Rafael Leão is of the best (the best?) player in Serie A right now and he's coming out of the bench. We have players like Vitinha who is a massive talent and a starter for PSG at 22 on the bench.
When people are not talking about Ronaldo, they're shitting on Fernando Santos, as if that's a really original take. I was satisfied with the Ghana game and his strategy for Uruguay was decent, apart from those ten minutes after he took off Ruben Neves. As soon as he fixed that with Palhinha and Matheus Nunes coming in, we went back to dominating a highly rated Uruguay side. I'd obviously prefer a more talented manager - and PT has a lot of options - but at least the team seems united and the talent is there. We're not optimizing our chances with him but at least we're preserving a decent one.
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Yeah I am sure Argentinian and Portuguese players will celebrate the day Messi and Ronaldo celebrate. Finally they exist in the eye of the public again then
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On November 29 2022 20:42 warding wrote:
Hadn't thought of that, maybe because Portugal is never in position to qualify for things early. lol
Need to vent this out: worldwide coverage of Portugal in this World Cup is insufferable due to the constant focus on Ronaldo. It already got old like 4 tournaments ago. It makes for great headlines to focus on Ronaldo's pettiness, but honestly he isn't the story of this Portugal team.
This team features players in every position who wouldn't be out of place as starters in a Champions League finals (maybe save Ruben Neves and William but they're solid players and you could play Danilo there anyway) . I mean, Rafael Leão is of the best (the best?) player in Serie A right now and he's coming out of the bench. We have players like Vitinha who is a massive talent and a starter for PSG at 22 on the bench.
When people are not talking about Ronaldo, they're shitting on Fernando Santos, as if that's a really original take. I was satisfied with the Ghana game and his strategy for Uruguay was decent, apart from those ten minutes after he took off Ruben Neves. As soon as he fixed that with Palhinha and Matheus Nunes coming in, we went back to dominating a highly rated Uruguay side. I'd obviously prefer a more talented manager - and PT has a lot of options - but at least the team seems united and the talent is there. We're not optimizing our chances with him but at least we're preserving a decent one.
What do you feel about the decision to start with Felix instead of Rafael? Is Felix over-hyped? I've been tracking his progress since the move to Atletico. But his inconsistency is really infuriating. I'm somewhat surprised a coach like Santos (who's somewhat similar to Simeone) would trust in him. He's looking more like the next Quaresma than Ronaldo.
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On November 29 2022 21:05 RKC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2022 20:42 warding wrote:
Hadn't thought of that, maybe because Portugal is never in position to qualify for things early. lol
Need to vent this out: worldwide coverage of Portugal in this World Cup is insufferable due to the constant focus on Ronaldo. It already got old like 4 tournaments ago. It makes for great headlines to focus on Ronaldo's pettiness, but honestly he isn't the story of this Portugal team.
This team features players in every position who wouldn't be out of place as starters in a Champions League finals (maybe save Ruben Neves and William but they're solid players and you could play Danilo there anyway) . I mean, Rafael Leão is of the best (the best?) player in Serie A right now and he's coming out of the bench. We have players like Vitinha who is a massive talent and a starter for PSG at 22 on the bench.
When people are not talking about Ronaldo, they're shitting on Fernando Santos, as if that's a really original take. I was satisfied with the Ghana game and his strategy for Uruguay was decent, apart from those ten minutes after he took off Ruben Neves. As soon as he fixed that with Palhinha and Matheus Nunes coming in, we went back to dominating a highly rated Uruguay side. I'd obviously prefer a more talented manager - and PT has a lot of options - but at least the team seems united and the talent is there. We're not optimizing our chances with him but at least we're preserving a decent one. What do you feel about the decision to start with Felix instead of Rafael? Is Felix over-hyped? I've been tracking his progress since the move to Atletico. But his inconsistency is really infuriating. I'm somewhat surprised a coach like Santos (who's somewhat similar to Simeone) would trust in him. He's looking more like the next Quaresma than Ronaldo.
I still give Felix the Renato Sanches benefit of doubt. He showed really superstar talent in his breakout season for Benfica and I think he doesn't fit Simeone's Atletico Madrid the same way Renato Sanches didn't fit Bayern Munich. Hopefully these two cases teach Benfica's youngsters and their agents that they should mature in Benfica for a few years before making the big move, like Ruben Dias did.
In the Fernando Santos setup I'm OK with the decision, although I'd love a manager who would try out an attacking 4x3x3 with space for all the amazing attacking talent we have instead of playing two DMs every game.
Quaresma did underperform at the highest stage, possibly due to personal issues and immaturity, but he instrumental for Portugal in several instances. I believe the current generation of PT players is really mentally different from previous generations due to the incredible work of our club academies who started to really care and work on personal development. You hear some of them speak and they're actually pretty smart and down to earth.
I can't imagine this national team getting involved in the type of shenanigans our 80's to 2000's teams got into like going on strike right before the world cup (in 86), players punching the manager (Sá Pinto), players assaulting referees during tournaments (2000 and 2002), players and manager involved in an orgy with prostitutes which finished in alleged assaults on the prostitutes (2006), to mention a few interesting incidents.
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Northern Ireland26760 Posts
On November 29 2022 20:19 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I definitely prefer GD over h2h as the first tie break, for the reasons you cite, but I also think it is more fair overall. Most importantly it gives teams more agency going into the final match.
Like if h2h was the first tie break, Germany would have 0 chance at advancing in the event of a spanish-japanese draw. H2h first is used in the European championship, but there have been examples where it was controversial. In 2004 there was a group with Sweden, Denmark, Italy and Bulgaria where Sweden and Denmark both beat Bulgaria and played 1-1 and 0-0 ties against Italy in the first rounds. That meant that if Sweden and Denmark played a 2-2 draw, Italy had 0 chance at advancing, even though them beating Bulgaria would leave all teams with five points. Sweden and Denmark did end up with a 2-2 draw, and I recall some foul play allegations. (To be fair, Italy was also behind on overall GD, but swe-den knowing of a result that ensured both advancing proor to the final game still strikes me as a bit unfortunate. Had it been GD as the first determiner, Denmark would've had way higher incentive to try to win the final game.)
Oh come on Cassano scoring only to melt down at the final whistle was top drama.
I don’t think there’s a perfect system really, I think GD is a little susceptible to a team being caught cold (Costa Rica match day 1), or a team with nothing to play for being farmed too.
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On November 29 2022 22:11 warding wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2022 21:05 RKC wrote:On November 29 2022 20:42 warding wrote:
Hadn't thought of that, maybe because Portugal is never in position to qualify for things early. lol
Need to vent this out: worldwide coverage of Portugal in this World Cup is insufferable due to the constant focus on Ronaldo. It already got old like 4 tournaments ago. It makes for great headlines to focus on Ronaldo's pettiness, but honestly he isn't the story of this Portugal team.
This team features players in every position who wouldn't be out of place as starters in a Champions League finals (maybe save Ruben Neves and William but they're solid players and you could play Danilo there anyway) . I mean, Rafael Leão is of the best (the best?) player in Serie A right now and he's coming out of the bench. We have players like Vitinha who is a massive talent and a starter for PSG at 22 on the bench.
When people are not talking about Ronaldo, they're shitting on Fernando Santos, as if that's a really original take. I was satisfied with the Ghana game and his strategy for Uruguay was decent, apart from those ten minutes after he took off Ruben Neves. As soon as he fixed that with Palhinha and Matheus Nunes coming in, we went back to dominating a highly rated Uruguay side. I'd obviously prefer a more talented manager - and PT has a lot of options - but at least the team seems united and the talent is there. We're not optimizing our chances with him but at least we're preserving a decent one. What do you feel about the decision to start with Felix instead of Rafael? Is Felix over-hyped? I've been tracking his progress since the move to Atletico. But his inconsistency is really infuriating. I'm somewhat surprised a coach like Santos (who's somewhat similar to Simeone) would trust in him. He's looking more like the next Quaresma than Ronaldo. I still give Felix the Renato Sanches benefit of doubt. He showed really superstar talent in his breakout season for Benfica and I think he doesn't fit Simeone's Atletico Madrid the same way Renato Sanches didn't fit Bayern Munich. Hopefully these two cases teach Benfica's youngsters and their agents that they should mature in Benfica for a few years before making the big move, like Ruben Dias did. In the Fernando Santos setup I'm OK with the decision, although I'd love a manager who would try out an attacking 4x3x3 with space for all the amazing attacking talent we have instead of playing two DMs every game. Quaresma did underperform at the highest stage, possibly due to personal issues and immaturity, but he instrumental for Portugal in several instances. I believe the current generation of PT players is really mentally different from previous generations due to the incredible work of our club academies who started to really care and work on personal development. You hear some of them speak and they're actually pretty smart and down to earth. I can't imagine this national team getting involved in the type of shenanigans our 80's to 2000's teams got into like going on strike right before the world cup (in 86), players punching the manager (Sá Pinto), players assaulting referees during tournaments (2000 and 2002), players and manager involved in an orgy with prostitutes which finished in alleged assaults on the prostitutes (2006), to mention a few interesting incidents.
Fair points. I really do hope Felix can fulfil his potential. A move away from Atletico may be what he needs to fully progress as a player. Some other club in La Liga? He seems rather lightweight for EPL right now.
Fernando Santos can be rather conservative. But maybe that's the right type of coach to manage a superstar-studded team. Just like Dechamps (France), Aragones / Del Bosque (Spain) and Scolari (Brazil). A strict senior disciplinarian guru rather than a hotshot young maverick.
This may be a rather controversial take, but I hope Mourinho can manage Portugal one day. What do the Portugese football pundits and fans feel about him?
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On November 29 2022 22:39 RKC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2022 22:11 warding wrote:On November 29 2022 21:05 RKC wrote:On November 29 2022 20:42 warding wrote:
Hadn't thought of that, maybe because Portugal is never in position to qualify for things early. lol
Need to vent this out: worldwide coverage of Portugal in this World Cup is insufferable due to the constant focus on Ronaldo. It already got old like 4 tournaments ago. It makes for great headlines to focus on Ronaldo's pettiness, but honestly he isn't the story of this Portugal team.
This team features players in every position who wouldn't be out of place as starters in a Champions League finals (maybe save Ruben Neves and William but they're solid players and you could play Danilo there anyway) . I mean, Rafael Leão is of the best (the best?) player in Serie A right now and he's coming out of the bench. We have players like Vitinha who is a massive talent and a starter for PSG at 22 on the bench.
When people are not talking about Ronaldo, they're shitting on Fernando Santos, as if that's a really original take. I was satisfied with the Ghana game and his strategy for Uruguay was decent, apart from those ten minutes after he took off Ruben Neves. As soon as he fixed that with Palhinha and Matheus Nunes coming in, we went back to dominating a highly rated Uruguay side. I'd obviously prefer a more talented manager - and PT has a lot of options - but at least the team seems united and the talent is there. We're not optimizing our chances with him but at least we're preserving a decent one. What do you feel about the decision to start with Felix instead of Rafael? Is Felix over-hyped? I've been tracking his progress since the move to Atletico. But his inconsistency is really infuriating. I'm somewhat surprised a coach like Santos (who's somewhat similar to Simeone) would trust in him. He's looking more like the next Quaresma than Ronaldo. I still give Felix the Renato Sanches benefit of doubt. He showed really superstar talent in his breakout season for Benfica and I think he doesn't fit Simeone's Atletico Madrid the same way Renato Sanches didn't fit Bayern Munich. Hopefully these two cases teach Benfica's youngsters and their agents that they should mature in Benfica for a few years before making the big move, like Ruben Dias did. In the Fernando Santos setup I'm OK with the decision, although I'd love a manager who would try out an attacking 4x3x3 with space for all the amazing attacking talent we have instead of playing two DMs every game. Quaresma did underperform at the highest stage, possibly due to personal issues and immaturity, but he instrumental for Portugal in several instances. I believe the current generation of PT players is really mentally different from previous generations due to the incredible work of our club academies who started to really care and work on personal development. You hear some of them speak and they're actually pretty smart and down to earth. I can't imagine this national team getting involved in the type of shenanigans our 80's to 2000's teams got into like going on strike right before the world cup (in 86), players punching the manager (Sá Pinto), players assaulting referees during tournaments (2000 and 2002), players and manager involved in an orgy with prostitutes which finished in alleged assaults on the prostitutes (2006), to mention a few interesting incidents. Fair points. I really do hope Felix can fulfil his potential. A move away from Atletico may be what he needs to fully progress as a player. Some other club in La Liga? He seems rather lightweight for EPL right now. Fernando Santos can be rather conservative. But maybe that's the right type of coach to manage a superstar-studded team. Just like Dechamps (France), Aragones / Del Bosque (Spain) and Scolari (Brazil). A strict senior disciplinarian guru rather than a hotshot young maverick. This may be a rather controversial take, but I hope Mourinho can manage Portugal one day. What do the Portugese football pundits and fans feel about him?
I used to like the idea but nowadays I think it has the potential to be a disaster. A manager like Mourinho or even Jorge Jesus might be a good idea for a Portugal of 2005-2015, but you don't want to have a controversial asshole as manager of a national team and risk spoiling the culture of the group. That happened with Queiroz.
This year for some reason Rafa gave up on the NT (for unknown reasons still) and it would have been interesting to have him on the squad. If we ever would need to play defensively and hit on the counter, Rafa together with Rafael Leão would be an amazing combo to watch.
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No idea what Van Gaal is thinking. 5-3-2 again with Dumfries, Blind and Klaassen as a 10 doesn't work...
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Norway28792 Posts
Senegal with the top supporters of the WC.
And when Valencia faked injury during extra time of the first half, I started hoping that Ecuador gets eliminated. 
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Ecuador 1-2 Senegal
Match is getting spicy with 2 quick goals in succession
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Norway28792 Posts
sry but England isn't losing 4-0
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On November 29 2022 20:42 warding wrote:
Hadn't thought of that, maybe because Portugal is never in position to qualify for things early. lol
Need to vent this out: worldwide coverage of Portugal in this World Cup is insufferable due to the constant focus on Ronaldo. It already got old like 4 tournaments ago. It makes for great headlines to focus on Ronaldo's pettiness, but honestly he isn't the story of this Portugal team.
This team features players in every position who wouldn't be out of place as starters in a Champions League finals (maybe save Ruben Neves and William but they're solid players and you could play Danilo there anyway) . I mean, Rafael Leão is of the best (the best?) player in Serie A right now and he's coming out of the bench. We have players like Vitinha who is a massive talent and a starter for PSG at 22 on the bench.
When people are not talking about Ronaldo, they're shitting on Fernando Santos, as if that's a really original take. I was satisfied with the Ghana game and his strategy for Uruguay was decent, apart from those ten minutes after he took off Ruben Neves. As soon as he fixed that with Palhinha and Matheus Nunes coming in, we went back to dominating a highly rated Uruguay side. I'd obviously prefer a more talented manager - and PT has a lot of options - but at least the team seems united and the talent is there. We're not optimizing our chances with him but at least we're preserving a decent one.
Amen to that!
Edit: on the GK thing i know im a page late but i would indeed rate ter stegen above most other NTs keepers, and def above nutmeg courtois!
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Norway28792 Posts
Injuries aren't funny but him basically bouncing after landing on the ball kinda is.
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This US and Iran game has the feel of one of those games where Iran scores on the last minute and eliminates US.
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EPT
