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GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
June 23 2009 04:52 GMT
#121
On June 21 2009 08:33 lingallin wrote:
Hey, I'm a complete newbie to wikis, but how does the editing work? I kinda would have appreciated if there was some way I could explain how what I edit makes things right to whoever is to approve my changes?
I'm gonna quote and break it down to show what I mean;
Show nested quote +

ZvP Builds

Builds against Protoss range from the more aggressive 5 Pool, 9 Pool/9 Pool Speed to the more economic Overpool, 12 Pool, 12 Hatch, or even 4 Hatch before Gas. As an early surprise you might opt for a 3 Hatch Zergling. Midgame options are 3 Hatch Spire and 3 Hatch Spire into 5 Hatch Hydra and the 5 Hatch Hydra into Muta.

Ok, the way I see this it seems that they have divided this into opening builds and midgame options with 3 hatch zerglings thorwn in in between as they haven't put in a category of all in builds. My problem with the other two categories (opening builds and midgame options)is that 4 hatch before gas isn't really an opening build any more, that's more like the very beginning of some branches of midgame builds, with all the others you can still branch into any midgame option.

Now among midgame options we have 3hatch spire (which should be called 3 hatch muta) and 3hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra and then another with 5hatch hydra into mutalisks which doesn't fit at all as it's just a continuation of the 3hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra. It seems really confusing to me when they are put as different midgame options. I would rather just have linked to the first then have the mutalisk switch linked there or inserted into the article.

That or said that zerg builds that aim for competing against protoss in the midgame are 3hatch spire (then branches from that into muta, scourge/hydra scourge lurk, 5 hatch and delayed muta, etc) and 4hatch before gas, (branches into +1 carpace opening mondragon style, hydra into muta, hydra into lurk etc) Zerg also has several all in builds(all in builds branch or list all examples there) that aims to cripple or kill the protoss before the game reaches midgame. ( but that all ussumes protoss didnt go for a fast +1 rush instead of stagate, in which case a 3hatch lurker would be an awesome build to set oneself up for midgame and all those builds depend on protoss opening FE and not 2gate or 1gate)


Actually the more i think about it the worse it becomes, for it to be worth something for a noob you need to separate opening builds for it's self then do different followups vs 1gate 2gate and for standard FE. It's just so much to add, and if I were able to somehow divide it up it would be way longer than the ones for ZvT and ZvP with a bunch of terms with nothing written about yet.

I guess, my question is, how can I do anything about this without rewriting and reorganizing the entire ZvP builds sections again one by one and hope an admin approves for all the changes i make?




Man, i've answered this question before, and the answer is really long ^^. I think I answered some varient of this question in the news post. Basically, the strategies section is supposed to allow you to put down the steps in between the timing windows. For example: you should be able to (following the strategy section of ZvP) link from overpool (which you kind of sort of divined from some sort of combination of the guide pages and the map pages) to some sort of midgame plan (5 hat hydra?) and then go to endgame (ultra/ling). The way that you can do that is by looking through the guide article, which should tell you which steps to do in general.

There's more information about how it's supposed to be organized in the help documents of liquipedia.
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
qaswedfr25
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States212 Posts
June 25 2009 01:57 GMT
#122
First off, I really like liquipedia; it's a good place to check over builds, read up on the mentality of playstyles as well as some good mechanical techniques to improve play.

Now on to my question. I know that it's much less viable nowadays because of corsair openings, but why isn't there any information on lurker builds? The ZvP guide mentions that the two main lair tech deviations are mutalisk and lurker with hydras for the main army, but it only goes into allin builds with lurker tech. Lurkers are especially strong when used to set up defensive positions, such as to hold expansions along with sunkens and spores or contain the protoss in their base until they get observers. Is it possible that someone could write a 3 or 4 hatch lurker build for ZvP?

*I am 50% sure that this is the right place to post this.
seppolevne
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada1681 Posts
June 25 2009 03:15 GMT
#123
Har har har I just had a silly idea, what about including information for the more popular UMS maps? Stuff like 'Individual random d', 'Cat and Mouse', 'Toads Turret' and stuff like that?
J- Pirate Udyr WW T- Pirate Riven Galio M- Galio Annie S- Sona Lux -- Always farm, never carry.
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
June 25 2009 03:27 GMT
#124
On June 25 2009 12:15 seppolevne wrote:
Har har har I just had a silly idea, what about including information for the more popular UMS maps? Stuff like 'Individual random d', 'Cat and Mouse', 'Toads Turret' and stuff like that?


map section right now is for tlpd maps only. We're having a hard enough time with that.

Next up would be the original maps included with sc and sc:bw imo, but we're nowhere near that point. .
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
June 25 2009 03:28 GMT
#125
On June 25 2009 10:57 qaswedfr25 wrote:
First off, I really like liquipedia; it's a good place to check over builds, read up on the mentality of playstyles as well as some good mechanical techniques to improve play.

Now on to my question. I know that it's much less viable nowadays because of corsair openings, but why isn't there any information on lurker builds? The ZvP guide mentions that the two main lair tech deviations are mutalisk and lurker with hydras for the main army, but it only goes into allin builds with lurker tech. Lurkers are especially strong when used to set up defensive positions, such as to hold expansions along with sunkens and spores or contain the protoss in their base until they get observers. Is it possible that someone could write a 3 or 4 hatch lurker build for ZvP?

*I am 50% sure that this is the right place to post this.


yep. Go ahead and make it and post it. ^^;; 90-95% of the time, stuff isn't included 'cause we didn't bother to write it, because it doesn't show up as "standard". If you have something nonstandard, write up a good article on it, and post it. It'll get approved.
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
Trezeguet
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States2656 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-26 17:34:12
June 26 2009 17:33 GMT
#126
Edit:Nevermind, I found the answer to my question, I am an idiot.
seppolevne
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada1681 Posts
June 27 2009 02:47 GMT
#127
On June 25 2009 12:27 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 25 2009 12:15 seppolevne wrote:
Har har har I just had a silly idea, what about including information for the more popular UMS maps? Stuff like 'Individual random d', 'Cat and Mouse', 'Toads Turret' and stuff like that?


map section right now is for tlpd maps only. We're having a hard enough time with that.

Next up would be the original maps included with sc and sc:bw imo, but we're nowhere near that point. .

I have a decent amount of free time, so I think I could probably do most of it. I played a lot of UMS back in the day so I know most of them pretty well, better then I know most SC maps. I would offer to help out with the blizzard maps but TBH I don't know anything about them.

So I guess the question is changed... Would it be appropriate to include popular UMS map information in Liquipedia, as it is primarily a progaming and pro-strategy wiki?
J- Pirate Udyr WW T- Pirate Riven Galio M- Galio Annie S- Sona Lux -- Always farm, never carry.
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-28 05:10:57
June 28 2009 03:53 GMT
#128
I just saw that sc2tv.ru are intending to translate the liquipedia. Will you add articles on different languages to the wiki ?
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
o3.power91
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Bahrain5288 Posts
June 28 2009 18:33 GMT
#129
I have a suggestion although I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before.

How about if a new heading be added to each of the 9 Match Up guides (Protoss vs Protoss Guide; Terran vs Zerg Guide; etc) listing each unit of the race being discussed (ie: Protoss in a Protoss vs Terran Guide). With each unit listed, there will be a description describing the main uses of that unit in that specific Match Up.

For example:
+ Show Spoiler +
In the Protoss vs Protoss Guide:

Reaver (linked to the reaver's page): Used as a unit for peon harassment, defense in the case of a fast expansion, and as a support unit for dragoon battles. (obviously can be expanded but this is just an example)

Builds that involve the use of reavers are:
-1 gate robotics
-etc

Strengths/Weaknesses of the reaver (not sure this is needed):
+Good defense unit
+Good for peon harass
+etc
- Expensive (if the reaver gets killed without doing enough damage, the player will be behind)
- Slow (requires a shuttle for mobility)


Some people may say this is useless and takes a lot of space, however it is easier for people to refer to while looking at the guide rather than looking at each unit's respective article. Any feedback on this suggestion?

Thanks
liquorice
Profile Joined August 2008
United States170 Posts
June 28 2009 23:29 GMT
#130
On June 29 2009 03:33 o3.power91 wrote:
I have a suggestion although I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before.

How about if a new heading be added to each of the 9 Match Up guides (Protoss vs Protoss Guide; Terran vs Zerg Guide; etc) listing each unit of the race being discussed (ie: Protoss in a Protoss vs Terran Guide). With each unit listed, there will be a description describing the main uses of that unit in that specific Match Up.

For example:
+ Show Spoiler +
In the Protoss vs Protoss Guide:

Reaver (linked to the reaver's page): Used as a unit for peon harassment, defense in the case of a fast expansion, and as a support unit for dragoon battles. (obviously can be expanded but this is just an example)

Builds that involve the use of reavers are:
-1 gate robotics
-etc

Strengths/Weaknesses of the reaver (not sure this is needed):
+Good defense unit
+Good for peon harass
+etc
- Expensive (if the reaver gets killed without doing enough damage, the player will be behind)
- Slow (requires a shuttle for mobility)


Some people may say this is useless and takes a lot of space, however it is easier for people to refer to while looking at the guide rather than looking at each unit's respective article. Any feedback on this suggestion?

Thanks


I think that this might work much better if it is just worked into the rest of the article. Lists of this type tend to involve lots of whitespace, which distracts from the meat of the article.
fuck yeah zerglings!
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
June 29 2009 19:40 GMT
#131
On June 28 2009 12:53 disciple wrote:
I just saw that sc2tv.ru are intending to translate the liquipedia. Will you add articles on different languages to the wiki ?


I don't think we have discussed translating it yet, it sort of conflicts with the commandments (Thou shalt speak fucking English)

I also don't know if they can direct translate it without violating our copyright laws, though I don't think a Russian site is going to be pressured to not do that except out of good faith.

That wasn't a crack at the Russian people by the way I was just under the impression from theabyss.ru that they don't get in trouble for that stuff.
YellowDeath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Ireland53 Posts
July 02 2009 15:15 GMT
#132
Can you guys please try to get around to creating the "Sauron Zerg" article? Thanks for the great work done.
MasterOfChaos
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Germany2896 Posts
July 02 2009 16:23 GMT
#133
[QUOTE]On June 30 2009 04:40 cgrinker wrote:
[QUOTE]On June 28 2009 12:53 disciple wrote:
I also don't know if they can direct translate it without violating our copyright laws[/QUOTE]
If they give appropriate credit and licence their content as CC-BY-SA it should be allowed by the licence.
LiquipediaOne eye to kill. Two eyes to live.
VIB
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Brazil3567 Posts
July 04 2009 03:03 GMT
#134
Hey, one thing that I noticed is that there is a disconnect between TLPD and Liquipedia. Both share many information and while Liquipedia has a few links to TLPD, I don't think there is too much about Liquipedia on TLPD. It would be nice if every player, team and map on TLPD had a link to Liquipedia.
Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people.
MuffinDude
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3837 Posts
July 04 2009 07:10 GMT
#135
Xellos isn't a protoss player.
Zerg can be so abusive sometimes | third member of the "loli is not a crime club" PM konadora to join!
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
July 06 2009 20:48 GMT
#136
On June 27 2009 11:47 seppolevne wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 25 2009 12:27 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
On June 25 2009 12:15 seppolevne wrote:
Har har har I just had a silly idea, what about including information for the more popular UMS maps? Stuff like 'Individual random d', 'Cat and Mouse', 'Toads Turret' and stuff like that?


map section right now is for tlpd maps only. We're having a hard enough time with that.

Next up would be the original maps included with sc and sc:bw imo, but we're nowhere near that point. .

I have a decent amount of free time, so I think I could probably do most of it. I played a lot of UMS back in the day so I know most of them pretty well, better then I know most SC maps. I would offer to help out with the blizzard maps but TBH I don't know anything about them.

So I guess the question is changed... Would it be appropriate to include popular UMS map information in Liquipedia, as it is primarily a progaming and pro-strategy wiki?


er...no? I don't think so, 'cause progaming and strategy !=ums.
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
July 06 2009 20:49 GMT
#137
On June 29 2009 08:29 virLudens wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2009 03:33 o3.power91 wrote:
I have a suggestion although I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before.

How about if a new heading be added to each of the 9 Match Up guides (Protoss vs Protoss Guide; Terran vs Zerg Guide; etc) listing each unit of the race being discussed (ie: Protoss in a Protoss vs Terran Guide). With each unit listed, there will be a description describing the main uses of that unit in that specific Match Up.

For example:
+ Show Spoiler +
In the Protoss vs Protoss Guide:

Reaver (linked to the reaver's page): Used as a unit for peon harassment, defense in the case of a fast expansion, and as a support unit for dragoon battles. (obviously can be expanded but this is just an example)

Builds that involve the use of reavers are:
-1 gate robotics
-etc

Strengths/Weaknesses of the reaver (not sure this is needed):
+Good defense unit
+Good for peon harass
+etc
- Expensive (if the reaver gets killed without doing enough damage, the player will be behind)
- Slow (requires a shuttle for mobility)


Some people may say this is useless and takes a lot of space, however it is easier for people to refer to while looking at the guide rather than looking at each unit's respective article. Any feedback on this suggestion?

Thanks


I think that this might work much better if it is just worked into the rest of the article. Lists of this type tend to involve lots of whitespace, which distracts from the meat of the article.


Why do we need this on top of a separate unit page? If the unit needs to be specially micro'd (like the reaver), we should have a technique article that talks about it.
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
July 06 2009 20:50 GMT
#138
On July 03 2009 00:15 YellowDeath wrote:
Can you guys please try to get around to creating the "Sauron Zerg" article? Thanks for the great work done.


go ahead and create it if you have time. If you don't...then I don't think that it will be created ^^
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
July 06 2009 20:50 GMT
#139
On July 04 2009 12:03 VIB wrote:
Hey, one thing that I noticed is that there is a disconnect between TLPD and Liquipedia. Both share many information and while Liquipedia has a few links to TLPD, I don't think there is too much about Liquipedia on TLPD. It would be nice if every player, team and map on TLPD had a link to Liquipedia.


this should go in the tlpd feedback thread.
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
NoNones
Profile Joined June 2009
41 Posts
July 07 2009 06:26 GMT
#140
Imo banned TL users should not be able to work on Liquidpedia under the banned account name. That just seems to slip every ones mind. I swear i can log into IzzyCraft and edit etc ionno why you would keep that. Although now i have like 4-8 accounts anyways =p As i don't like to keep to a name. Just sayin
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