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Malfeasance in Moderation: An Evaluation of Kwark - Page 5

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Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34507 Posts
October 24 2012 21:02 GMT
#81
On October 25 2012 05:59 Mandini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2012 05:37 SeeKeR wrote:
On October 24 2012 13:07 Hot_Bid wrote:
After reviewing the ban and all your arguments I've decided to elevate Kwark to banling level 2.

Congrats Kwark on your promotion.

LOL! KwarK special icon gogo?

He should get a glowing hammer. I nominate pink in honor of this topic.

Agreed. He did cure cancer after all.
Moderator
Inzek
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Chile802 Posts
October 24 2012 21:05 GMT
#82
this thread was a gem... i have to remember coming back to TL to read this... or get sc2 so i get interested in strategy again
Stork FAN!!!
neversummer
Profile Joined September 2011
United States156 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-24 22:29:53
October 24 2012 22:22 GMT
#83
On October 24 2012 15:10 Hot_Bid wrote:
Here's my reasoning, since you asked for it so nicely. The ban was justified, reasons for ban were correct. You guys then exchange some PMs, and you feel its unfair because the basis of the ban is refuted by you. Unfortunately, simply stating that the ban was incorrect does not make this fact.

You are right in the sense that Kwark could have been nicer in his PMs to you, but the first PM you sent to him justified the tone that he took with you.

If I were the person receiving this paragraph:
Show nested quote +
Secondly, you ASSUME I am implying something? Is that a fucking joke? You're banning people for what they're implying, even when they're not implying anything at all? Holy shit dude, get some fucking perspective. If you are a gay man, that's fine, but don't abuse your privilege as a mod on these forums to pursue your own pro-gay agenda.

...especially after your original ban reason, I'd just perm you. That'd be it.

But since we're so nice and transparent, we're having this discussion in Website Feedback. Judging by the length and frequency of your replies in this thread I feel like you will argue this forever, so I'm just going to say that this is the last post I'm going to write about this topic.


Thanks for your reply. I did, in fact, state WHY I thought the ban was unjustified, then asked him to review my ban, to which he had no knowledge of such responsibility, then dismissed my case altogether without reasoning.

Based upon your initial response in this thread, and this as well, it appears TL is just the "good ole boys" who just look out for one another and have no real intention of creating a set of universal ground rules, which everyone (including mods) must abide by. You've completely ignored my second request, which was to explain how I could be banned for a perceived homophobic statement when Kwark can insult the mentally deficient and physically handicapped without so much as a warning.

I suppose I'll retract my original purpose, since there's no chance of a one-hundred post user to challenge the establishment. Instead, I'll ask for a list of subjects that are bannable and unbannable, so that I may avoid this conflict in the future.

So far here is the list I've created:

Bannable Offenses:
1. Stating opinions which may be perceived as homophobic

Unbannable Offenses:
1. Insulting the mentally deficient
2. Insulting the physically handicapped

Edit: It appears the vast majority of contributors to this thread have completely missed the purpose of my post. It is NOT to exonerate myself. It is to examine the behavior and moderation of Kwark.
Those scientists better check their hypotenuses, dude.
Cokefreak
Profile Joined June 2011
Finland8096 Posts
October 24 2012 22:24 GMT
#84
You can just leave the site and come back when you've matured a bit, otherwise you won't last long here.
DiracMonopole
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1555 Posts
October 24 2012 22:27 GMT
#85
On October 25 2012 07:24 Cokefreak wrote:
You can just leave the site and come back when you've matured a bit, otherwise you won't last long here.


Agreed, but I dont think 2 weeks is long enough for that
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9643 Posts
October 24 2012 22:32 GMT
#86
"Hello? Leg factory? Yeah. We're looking for something neversummer can stand on. Nothing? Oh, okay. thanks."

JBright
Profile Joined September 2010
Vancouver14381 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-24 22:40:37
October 24 2012 22:36 GMT
#87
On October 25 2012 07:22 neversummer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 15:10 Hot_Bid wrote:
Here's my reasoning, since you asked for it so nicely. The ban was justified, reasons for ban were correct. You guys then exchange some PMs, and you feel its unfair because the basis of the ban is refuted by you. Unfortunately, simply stating that the ban was incorrect does not make this fact.

You are right in the sense that Kwark could have been nicer in his PMs to you, but the first PM you sent to him justified the tone that he took with you.

If I were the person receiving this paragraph:
Secondly, you ASSUME I am implying something? Is that a fucking joke? You're banning people for what they're implying, even when they're not implying anything at all? Holy shit dude, get some fucking perspective. If you are a gay man, that's fine, but don't abuse your privilege as a mod on these forums to pursue your own pro-gay agenda.

...especially after your original ban reason, I'd just perm you. That'd be it.

But since we're so nice and transparent, we're having this discussion in Website Feedback. Judging by the length and frequency of your replies in this thread I feel like you will argue this forever, so I'm just going to say that this is the last post I'm going to write about this topic.


Thanks for your reply. I did, in fact, state WHY I thought the ban was unjustified, then asked him to review my ban, to which he had no knowledge of such responsibility, then dismissed my case altogether without reasoning.

Based upon your initial response in this thread, and this as well, it appears TL is just the "good ole boys" who just look out for one another and have no real intention of creating a set of universal ground rules, which everyone (including mods) must abide by. You've completely ignored my second request, which was to explain how I could be banned for a perceived homophobic statement when Kwark can insult the mentally deficient and physically handicapped without so much as a warning.

I suppose I'll retract my original purpose, since there's no chance of a one-hundred post user to challenge the establishment. Instead, I'll ask for a list of subjects that are bannable and unbannable, so that I may avoid this conflict in the future.

So far here is the list I've created:

Bannable Offenses:
1. Stating opinions which may be perceived as homophobic

Unbannable Offenses:
1. Insulting the mentally deficient
2. Insulting the physically handicapped

Edit: It appears the vast majority of contributors to this thread have completely missed the purpose of my post. It is NOT to exonerate myself. It is to examine the behavior and moderation of Kwark.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17883#cmd06

You're not wrong that veteran members get preferential treatment. They have earned their positions by contributing for a long time. When someone new comes along and thinks s/he knows how to run TL better than the staff members, the veterans will put them in their place. Some mods go about it in a nicer manner but the message is still the same - you get warned/banned for writing stupid stuff.

edit: No one knows how you think. But if you write something that for some reason the majority of the people reading it took it to be homophobic, then it just means you should have written it in a non-ambiguous way.
ModeratorThe good and the wise lead quiet lives. Neo's #1 Frenemy and nightmare.
Cokefreak
Profile Joined June 2011
Finland8096 Posts
October 24 2012 22:38 GMT
#88
Edit: It appears the vast majority of contributors to this thread have completely missed the purpose of my post. It is NOT to exonerate myself. It is to examine the behavior and moderation of Kwark.

We already examined the behavior and moderation of KwarK on this case and the general consensus and more importantly the staff's opinion was that everything KwarK did was completely justifiable and you're just digging a deeper hole for yourself with this, just swallow your pride and let it go.
neversummer
Profile Joined September 2011
United States156 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-24 22:43:18
October 24 2012 22:40 GMT
#89
On October 25 2012 07:38 Cokefreak wrote:
Show nested quote +
Edit: It appears the vast majority of contributors to this thread have completely missed the purpose of my post. It is NOT to exonerate myself. It is to examine the behavior and moderation of Kwark.

We already examined the behavior and moderation of KwarK on this case and the general consensus and more importantly the staff's opinion was that everything KwarK did was completely justifiable and you're just digging a deeper hole for yourself with this, just swallow your pride and let it go.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=377611&currentpage=3#47

This point in particular has not been refuted. Perhaps you could?

Edit: Unless this falls under "respect forum veterans." Am I to interpret that as moderators do not follow the same rules as posters? Then what is the purpose of rules? Why not just let the moderators ban whoever they want, for whatever reason they want, as that seems to be the case already.
Those scientists better check their hypotenuses, dude.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
October 24 2012 22:41 GMT
#90
On October 25 2012 07:22 neversummer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 15:10 Hot_Bid wrote:
Here's my reasoning, since you asked for it so nicely. The ban was justified, reasons for ban were correct. You guys then exchange some PMs, and you feel its unfair because the basis of the ban is refuted by you. Unfortunately, simply stating that the ban was incorrect does not make this fact.

You are right in the sense that Kwark could have been nicer in his PMs to you, but the first PM you sent to him justified the tone that he took with you.

If I were the person receiving this paragraph:
Secondly, you ASSUME I am implying something? Is that a fucking joke? You're banning people for what they're implying, even when they're not implying anything at all? Holy shit dude, get some fucking perspective. If you are a gay man, that's fine, but don't abuse your privilege as a mod on these forums to pursue your own pro-gay agenda.

...especially after your original ban reason, I'd just perm you. That'd be it.

But since we're so nice and transparent, we're having this discussion in Website Feedback. Judging by the length and frequency of your replies in this thread I feel like you will argue this forever, so I'm just going to say that this is the last post I'm going to write about this topic.


Thanks for your reply. I did, in fact, state WHY I thought the ban was unjustified, then asked him to review my ban, to which he had no knowledge of such responsibility, then dismissed my case altogether without reasoning.

Based upon your initial response in this thread, and this as well, it appears TL is just the "good ole boys" who just look out for one another and have no real intention of creating a set of universal ground rules, which everyone (including mods) must abide by. You've completely ignored my second request, which was to explain how I could be banned for a perceived homophobic statement when Kwark can insult the mentally deficient and physically handicapped without so much as a warning.

I suppose I'll retract my original purpose, since there's no chance of a one-hundred post user to challenge the establishment. Instead, I'll ask for a list of subjects that are bannable and unbannable, so that I may avoid this conflict in the future.

So far here is the list I've created:

Bannable Offenses:
1. Stating opinions which may be perceived as homophobic

Unbannable Offenses:
1. Insulting the mentally deficient
2. Insulting the physically handicapped

Edit: It appears the vast majority of contributors to this thread have completely missed the purpose of my post. It is NOT to exonerate myself. It is to examine the behavior and moderation of Kwark.

actually, i will agree with you about the good ol' boys group and different standards applying to different people. its relatively clear that low post users are moderated more heavily than high post users, and if you are a part of the good ol' boys network (admins, mods, old ass users, progamers), you can almost get away with murder. the only problem with your objection to this double standard is that (1) they dont give a shit, and (2) they say in their tl.net commandments (or whatever they call it) that they can totally do the double standard and they don't give a fuck-all to your objections. so, although you made a valid point philosophically, it means nothing because their house, their rules.
Cokefreak
Profile Joined June 2011
Finland8096 Posts
October 24 2012 22:43 GMT
#91
On October 25 2012 07:40 neversummer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2012 07:38 Cokefreak wrote:
Edit: It appears the vast majority of contributors to this thread have completely missed the purpose of my post. It is NOT to exonerate myself. It is to examine the behavior and moderation of Kwark.

We already examined the behavior and moderation of KwarK on this case and the general consensus and more importantly the staff's opinion was that everything KwarK did was completely justifiable and you're just digging a deeper hole for yourself with this, just swallow your pride and let it go.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=377611&currentpage=3#47

This point in particular has not been refuted. Perhaps you could?

Fine, I resign...for you have bested me in the great battle of internet wits oh great neversummer, how can I ever get past such humiliation!

+ Show Spoiler +
Seriously though, read my previous post again and think if you still want to press the issue.
neversummer
Profile Joined September 2011
United States156 Posts
October 24 2012 22:44 GMT
#92
On October 25 2012 07:41 dAPhREAk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2012 07:22 neversummer wrote:
On October 24 2012 15:10 Hot_Bid wrote:
Here's my reasoning, since you asked for it so nicely. The ban was justified, reasons for ban were correct. You guys then exchange some PMs, and you feel its unfair because the basis of the ban is refuted by you. Unfortunately, simply stating that the ban was incorrect does not make this fact.

You are right in the sense that Kwark could have been nicer in his PMs to you, but the first PM you sent to him justified the tone that he took with you.

If I were the person receiving this paragraph:
Secondly, you ASSUME I am implying something? Is that a fucking joke? You're banning people for what they're implying, even when they're not implying anything at all? Holy shit dude, get some fucking perspective. If you are a gay man, that's fine, but don't abuse your privilege as a mod on these forums to pursue your own pro-gay agenda.

...especially after your original ban reason, I'd just perm you. That'd be it.

But since we're so nice and transparent, we're having this discussion in Website Feedback. Judging by the length and frequency of your replies in this thread I feel like you will argue this forever, so I'm just going to say that this is the last post I'm going to write about this topic.


Thanks for your reply. I did, in fact, state WHY I thought the ban was unjustified, then asked him to review my ban, to which he had no knowledge of such responsibility, then dismissed my case altogether without reasoning.

Based upon your initial response in this thread, and this as well, it appears TL is just the "good ole boys" who just look out for one another and have no real intention of creating a set of universal ground rules, which everyone (including mods) must abide by. You've completely ignored my second request, which was to explain how I could be banned for a perceived homophobic statement when Kwark can insult the mentally deficient and physically handicapped without so much as a warning.

I suppose I'll retract my original purpose, since there's no chance of a one-hundred post user to challenge the establishment. Instead, I'll ask for a list of subjects that are bannable and unbannable, so that I may avoid this conflict in the future.

So far here is the list I've created:

Bannable Offenses:
1. Stating opinions which may be perceived as homophobic

Unbannable Offenses:
1. Insulting the mentally deficient
2. Insulting the physically handicapped

Edit: It appears the vast majority of contributors to this thread have completely missed the purpose of my post. It is NOT to exonerate myself. It is to examine the behavior and moderation of Kwark.

actually, i will agree with you about the good ol' boys group and different standards applying to different people. its relatively clear that low post users are moderated more heavily than high post users, and if you are a part of the good ol' boys network (admins, mods, old ass users, progamers), you can almost get away with murder. the only problem with your objection to this double standard is that (1) they dont give a shit, and (2) they say in their tl.net commandments (or whatever they call it) that they can totally do the double standard and they don't give a fuck-all to your objections. so, although you made a valid point philosophically, it means nothing because their house, their rules.


Yea it certainly appears that way, and I agree with your assessment of the triviality of my pursuit. Also, thanks for not resorting to ad hominem and actually addressing the points I brought up/
Those scientists better check their hypotenuses, dude.
neversummer
Profile Joined September 2011
United States156 Posts
October 24 2012 22:45 GMT
#93
On October 25 2012 07:43 Cokefreak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2012 07:40 neversummer wrote:
On October 25 2012 07:38 Cokefreak wrote:
Edit: It appears the vast majority of contributors to this thread have completely missed the purpose of my post. It is NOT to exonerate myself. It is to examine the behavior and moderation of Kwark.

We already examined the behavior and moderation of KwarK on this case and the general consensus and more importantly the staff's opinion was that everything KwarK did was completely justifiable and you're just digging a deeper hole for yourself with this, just swallow your pride and let it go.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=377611&currentpage=3#47

This point in particular has not been refuted. Perhaps you could?

Fine, I resign...for you have bested me in the great battle of internet wits oh great neversummer, how can I ever get past such humiliation!

+ Show Spoiler +
Seriously though, read my previous post again and think if you still want to press the issue.


Dude..... can you (or the vast majority of people in this thread) actually engage in civil argument?
Those scientists better check their hypotenuses, dude.
Cokefreak
Profile Joined June 2011
Finland8096 Posts
October 24 2012 22:48 GMT
#94
On October 25 2012 07:45 neversummer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2012 07:43 Cokefreak wrote:
On October 25 2012 07:40 neversummer wrote:
On October 25 2012 07:38 Cokefreak wrote:
Edit: It appears the vast majority of contributors to this thread have completely missed the purpose of my post. It is NOT to exonerate myself. It is to examine the behavior and moderation of Kwark.

We already examined the behavior and moderation of KwarK on this case and the general consensus and more importantly the staff's opinion was that everything KwarK did was completely justifiable and you're just digging a deeper hole for yourself with this, just swallow your pride and let it go.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=377611&currentpage=3#47

This point in particular has not been refuted. Perhaps you could?

Fine, I resign...for you have bested me in the great battle of internet wits oh great neversummer, how can I ever get past such humiliation!

+ Show Spoiler +
Seriously though, read my previous post again and think if you still want to press the issue.


Dude..... can you (or the vast majority of people in this thread) actually engage in civil argument?

Can you?
Secondly, you ASSUME I am implying something? Is that a fucking joke? You're banning people for what they're implying, even when they're not implying anything at all? Holy shit dude, get some fucking perspective. If you are a gay man, that's fine, but don't abuse your privilege as a mod on these forums to pursue your own pro-gay agenda.
Myles
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5162 Posts
October 24 2012 22:48 GMT
#95
On October 25 2012 07:22 neversummer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 15:10 Hot_Bid wrote:
Here's my reasoning, since you asked for it so nicely. The ban was justified, reasons for ban were correct. You guys then exchange some PMs, and you feel its unfair because the basis of the ban is refuted by you. Unfortunately, simply stating that the ban was incorrect does not make this fact.

You are right in the sense that Kwark could have been nicer in his PMs to you, but the first PM you sent to him justified the tone that he took with you.

If I were the person receiving this paragraph:
Secondly, you ASSUME I am implying something? Is that a fucking joke? You're banning people for what they're implying, even when they're not implying anything at all? Holy shit dude, get some fucking perspective. If you are a gay man, that's fine, but don't abuse your privilege as a mod on these forums to pursue your own pro-gay agenda.

...especially after your original ban reason, I'd just perm you. That'd be it.

But since we're so nice and transparent, we're having this discussion in Website Feedback. Judging by the length and frequency of your replies in this thread I feel like you will argue this forever, so I'm just going to say that this is the last post I'm going to write about this topic.


Thanks for your reply. I did, in fact, state WHY I thought the ban was unjustified, then asked him to review my ban, to which he had no knowledge of such responsibility, then dismissed my case altogether without reasoning.

Based upon your initial response in this thread, and this as well, it appears TL is just the "good ole boys" who just look out for one another and have no real intention of creating a set of universal ground rules, which everyone (including mods) must abide by. You've completely ignored my second request, which was to explain how I could be banned for a perceived homophobic statement when Kwark can insult the mentally deficient and physically handicapped without so much as a warning.

I suppose I'll retract my original purpose, since there's no chance of a one-hundred post user to challenge the establishment. Instead, I'll ask for a list of subjects that are bannable and unbannable, so that I may avoid this conflict in the future.

So far here is the list I've created:

Bannable Offenses:
1. Stating opinions which may be perceived as homophobic

Unbannable Offenses:
1. Insulting the mentally deficient
2. Insulting the physically handicapped

You clearly have no idea how TL works. You should have read the commandments thread before assuming people on TL are equals and everyone gets treated 'fairly'. It's never worked like that, and it likely never will.

TL also doesn't abide by 'black and white' or 'zero tolerance' rules, except martyring. However, there is something almost as hardline; intolerance of opinions that can be perceived as bigoted. So unless it's written more eloquently than Shakespeare(I'm generalizing here, writing something in iambic pentameter isn't what I mean), you're likely to be warned/banned. And if you write something offensive and get flamed for it(by anyone) they're not going to be treated the same. I've told a person that 'You're a fucking piece of shit' and 'So go die a fire' because of they thought terrorism on civilians was justified. Had the mods disagreed that it was justified I would have been warned/banned, as I was in another case when I called someone an idiot. If the mods think you deserved what you got, then that's how it going to be.

I already agreed that I think Kwark goes too far sometimes, but this is an old boys club and he has been a longtime member that has earned the respect of far more people around here than you or I.
Moderator
neversummer
Profile Joined September 2011
United States156 Posts
October 24 2012 22:51 GMT
#96
On October 25 2012 07:48 Myles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2012 07:22 neversummer wrote:
On October 24 2012 15:10 Hot_Bid wrote:
Here's my reasoning, since you asked for it so nicely. The ban was justified, reasons for ban were correct. You guys then exchange some PMs, and you feel its unfair because the basis of the ban is refuted by you. Unfortunately, simply stating that the ban was incorrect does not make this fact.

You are right in the sense that Kwark could have been nicer in his PMs to you, but the first PM you sent to him justified the tone that he took with you.

If I were the person receiving this paragraph:
Secondly, you ASSUME I am implying something? Is that a fucking joke? You're banning people for what they're implying, even when they're not implying anything at all? Holy shit dude, get some fucking perspective. If you are a gay man, that's fine, but don't abuse your privilege as a mod on these forums to pursue your own pro-gay agenda.

...especially after your original ban reason, I'd just perm you. That'd be it.

But since we're so nice and transparent, we're having this discussion in Website Feedback. Judging by the length and frequency of your replies in this thread I feel like you will argue this forever, so I'm just going to say that this is the last post I'm going to write about this topic.


Thanks for your reply. I did, in fact, state WHY I thought the ban was unjustified, then asked him to review my ban, to which he had no knowledge of such responsibility, then dismissed my case altogether without reasoning.

Based upon your initial response in this thread, and this as well, it appears TL is just the "good ole boys" who just look out for one another and have no real intention of creating a set of universal ground rules, which everyone (including mods) must abide by. You've completely ignored my second request, which was to explain how I could be banned for a perceived homophobic statement when Kwark can insult the mentally deficient and physically handicapped without so much as a warning.

I suppose I'll retract my original purpose, since there's no chance of a one-hundred post user to challenge the establishment. Instead, I'll ask for a list of subjects that are bannable and unbannable, so that I may avoid this conflict in the future.

So far here is the list I've created:

Bannable Offenses:
1. Stating opinions which may be perceived as homophobic

Unbannable Offenses:
1. Insulting the mentally deficient
2. Insulting the physically handicapped

You clearly have no idea how TL works. You should have read the commandments thread before assuming people on TL are equals and everyone gets treated 'fairly'. It's never worked like that, and it likely never will.

TL also doesn't abide by 'black and white' or 'zero tolerance' rules, except martyring. However, there is something almost as hardline; intolerance of opinions that can be perceived as bigoted. So unless it's written more eloquently than Shakespeare(I'm generalizing here, writing something in iambic pentameter isn't what I mean), you're likely to be warned/banned. And if you write something offensive and get flamed for it(by anyone) they're not going to be treated the same. I've told a person that 'You're a fucking piece of shit' and 'So go die a fire' because of they thought terrorism on civilians was justified. Had the mods disagreed that it was justified I would have been warned/banned, as I was in another case when I called someone an idiot. If the mods think you deserved what you got, then that's how it going to be.

I already agreed that I think Kwark goes too far sometimes, but this is an old boys club and he has been a longtime member that has earned the respect of far more people around here than you or I.


I suppose it is characteristic of the sheep to blindly follow the herd.
Those scientists better check their hypotenuses, dude.
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
October 24 2012 22:54 GMT
#97
I assume the lot of us think you're a bit homophobic and generally unpleasant. We don't follow you around and ask you to be nice to people you don't like.

This is a community oriented website. Just ask yourself this: "Am I possibly offending people? Is my opinion best kept to myself? Could I still say my opinion but say it in a way that is the least offensive while still staying true to what I mean?"

Yeah sure some people people get preferential treatment. I feel like I get preferential treatment once in a while. I even have a fair few reds on my skype list and one on facebook. How? Well, once in a while I help out when I'm needed. And I try to keep my highly opinionated views to myself. Klogons a huge PAC-12 fan and I do say raw things occasionally about USC but I don't make it my pledge to piss him off until he bans me. So, yeah, some people are held to different standards. Just like every single facet of life. The oddity is TL is transparent about the matter. Either way, that's life.

Back to the matter at hand: You want everyone to think you're right. Over five pages you've convinced very few people and alienated yourself (or let's be honest, embarrassed yourself) to a few more. In my humble opinion, quit while you're behind. If it's 4th and 21 you don't try to pass it again. You punt and play solid defense. You come back and you try to do better on the next set of downs.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
neversummer
Profile Joined September 2011
United States156 Posts
October 24 2012 22:55 GMT
#98
On October 25 2012 07:36 JBright wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2012 07:22 neversummer wrote:
On October 24 2012 15:10 Hot_Bid wrote:
Here's my reasoning, since you asked for it so nicely. The ban was justified, reasons for ban were correct. You guys then exchange some PMs, and you feel its unfair because the basis of the ban is refuted by you. Unfortunately, simply stating that the ban was incorrect does not make this fact.

You are right in the sense that Kwark could have been nicer in his PMs to you, but the first PM you sent to him justified the tone that he took with you.

If I were the person receiving this paragraph:
Secondly, you ASSUME I am implying something? Is that a fucking joke? You're banning people for what they're implying, even when they're not implying anything at all? Holy shit dude, get some fucking perspective. If you are a gay man, that's fine, but don't abuse your privilege as a mod on these forums to pursue your own pro-gay agenda.

...especially after your original ban reason, I'd just perm you. That'd be it.

But since we're so nice and transparent, we're having this discussion in Website Feedback. Judging by the length and frequency of your replies in this thread I feel like you will argue this forever, so I'm just going to say that this is the last post I'm going to write about this topic.


Thanks for your reply. I did, in fact, state WHY I thought the ban was unjustified, then asked him to review my ban, to which he had no knowledge of such responsibility, then dismissed my case altogether without reasoning.

Based upon your initial response in this thread, and this as well, it appears TL is just the "good ole boys" who just look out for one another and have no real intention of creating a set of universal ground rules, which everyone (including mods) must abide by. You've completely ignored my second request, which was to explain how I could be banned for a perceived homophobic statement when Kwark can insult the mentally deficient and physically handicapped without so much as a warning.

I suppose I'll retract my original purpose, since there's no chance of a one-hundred post user to challenge the establishment. Instead, I'll ask for a list of subjects that are bannable and unbannable, so that I may avoid this conflict in the future.

So far here is the list I've created:

Bannable Offenses:
1. Stating opinions which may be perceived as homophobic

Unbannable Offenses:
1. Insulting the mentally deficient
2. Insulting the physically handicapped

Edit: It appears the vast majority of contributors to this thread have completely missed the purpose of my post. It is NOT to exonerate myself. It is to examine the behavior and moderation of Kwark.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17883#cmd06

You're not wrong that veteran members get preferential treatment. They have earned their positions by contributing for a long time. When someone new comes along and thinks s/he knows how to run TL better than the staff members, the veterans will put them in their place. Some mods go about it in a nicer manner but the message is still the same - you get warned/banned for writing stupid stuff.

edit: No one knows how you think. But if you write something that for some reason the majority of the people reading it took it to be homophobic, then it just means you should have written it in a non-ambiguous way.


I agree, another strong counter-argument against me. I should have known it was a controversial issue, and therefore been less ambiguous with my statement.
Those scientists better check their hypotenuses, dude.
Myles
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5162 Posts
October 24 2012 22:55 GMT
#99
On October 25 2012 07:51 neversummer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2012 07:48 Myles wrote:
On October 25 2012 07:22 neversummer wrote:
On October 24 2012 15:10 Hot_Bid wrote:
Here's my reasoning, since you asked for it so nicely. The ban was justified, reasons for ban were correct. You guys then exchange some PMs, and you feel its unfair because the basis of the ban is refuted by you. Unfortunately, simply stating that the ban was incorrect does not make this fact.

You are right in the sense that Kwark could have been nicer in his PMs to you, but the first PM you sent to him justified the tone that he took with you.

If I were the person receiving this paragraph:
Secondly, you ASSUME I am implying something? Is that a fucking joke? You're banning people for what they're implying, even when they're not implying anything at all? Holy shit dude, get some fucking perspective. If you are a gay man, that's fine, but don't abuse your privilege as a mod on these forums to pursue your own pro-gay agenda.

...especially after your original ban reason, I'd just perm you. That'd be it.

But since we're so nice and transparent, we're having this discussion in Website Feedback. Judging by the length and frequency of your replies in this thread I feel like you will argue this forever, so I'm just going to say that this is the last post I'm going to write about this topic.


Thanks for your reply. I did, in fact, state WHY I thought the ban was unjustified, then asked him to review my ban, to which he had no knowledge of such responsibility, then dismissed my case altogether without reasoning.

Based upon your initial response in this thread, and this as well, it appears TL is just the "good ole boys" who just look out for one another and have no real intention of creating a set of universal ground rules, which everyone (including mods) must abide by. You've completely ignored my second request, which was to explain how I could be banned for a perceived homophobic statement when Kwark can insult the mentally deficient and physically handicapped without so much as a warning.

I suppose I'll retract my original purpose, since there's no chance of a one-hundred post user to challenge the establishment. Instead, I'll ask for a list of subjects that are bannable and unbannable, so that I may avoid this conflict in the future.

So far here is the list I've created:

Bannable Offenses:
1. Stating opinions which may be perceived as homophobic

Unbannable Offenses:
1. Insulting the mentally deficient
2. Insulting the physically handicapped

You clearly have no idea how TL works. You should have read the commandments thread before assuming people on TL are equals and everyone gets treated 'fairly'. It's never worked like that, and it likely never will.

TL also doesn't abide by 'black and white' or 'zero tolerance' rules, except martyring. However, there is something almost as hardline; intolerance of opinions that can be perceived as bigoted. So unless it's written more eloquently than Shakespeare(I'm generalizing here, writing something in iambic pentameter isn't what I mean), you're likely to be warned/banned. And if you write something offensive and get flamed for it(by anyone) they're not going to be treated the same. I've told a person that 'You're a fucking piece of shit' and 'So go die a fire' because of they thought terrorism on civilians was justified. Had the mods disagreed that it was justified I would have been warned/banned, as I was in another case when I called someone an idiot. If the mods think you deserved what you got, then that's how it going to be.

I already agreed that I think Kwark goes too far sometimes, but this is an old boys club and he has been a longtime member that has earned the respect of far more people around here than you or I.


I suppose it is characteristic of the sheep to blindly follow the herd.

There's nothing blind about it. I'm well aware how things work here and like it most of the time. The occasional judgement disagreement is nothing compared to the quality of the forums the mods provide.
Moderator
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
October 24 2012 22:56 GMT
#100
On October 25 2012 07:51 neversummer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2012 07:48 Myles wrote:
On October 25 2012 07:22 neversummer wrote:
On October 24 2012 15:10 Hot_Bid wrote:
Here's my reasoning, since you asked for it so nicely. The ban was justified, reasons for ban were correct. You guys then exchange some PMs, and you feel its unfair because the basis of the ban is refuted by you. Unfortunately, simply stating that the ban was incorrect does not make this fact.

You are right in the sense that Kwark could have been nicer in his PMs to you, but the first PM you sent to him justified the tone that he took with you.

If I were the person receiving this paragraph:
Secondly, you ASSUME I am implying something? Is that a fucking joke? You're banning people for what they're implying, even when they're not implying anything at all? Holy shit dude, get some fucking perspective. If you are a gay man, that's fine, but don't abuse your privilege as a mod on these forums to pursue your own pro-gay agenda.

...especially after your original ban reason, I'd just perm you. That'd be it.

But since we're so nice and transparent, we're having this discussion in Website Feedback. Judging by the length and frequency of your replies in this thread I feel like you will argue this forever, so I'm just going to say that this is the last post I'm going to write about this topic.


Thanks for your reply. I did, in fact, state WHY I thought the ban was unjustified, then asked him to review my ban, to which he had no knowledge of such responsibility, then dismissed my case altogether without reasoning.

Based upon your initial response in this thread, and this as well, it appears TL is just the "good ole boys" who just look out for one another and have no real intention of creating a set of universal ground rules, which everyone (including mods) must abide by. You've completely ignored my second request, which was to explain how I could be banned for a perceived homophobic statement when Kwark can insult the mentally deficient and physically handicapped without so much as a warning.

I suppose I'll retract my original purpose, since there's no chance of a one-hundred post user to challenge the establishment. Instead, I'll ask for a list of subjects that are bannable and unbannable, so that I may avoid this conflict in the future.

So far here is the list I've created:

Bannable Offenses:
1. Stating opinions which may be perceived as homophobic

Unbannable Offenses:
1. Insulting the mentally deficient
2. Insulting the physically handicapped

You clearly have no idea how TL works. You should have read the commandments thread before assuming people on TL are equals and everyone gets treated 'fairly'. It's never worked like that, and it likely never will.

TL also doesn't abide by 'black and white' or 'zero tolerance' rules, except martyring. However, there is something almost as hardline; intolerance of opinions that can be perceived as bigoted. So unless it's written more eloquently than Shakespeare(I'm generalizing here, writing something in iambic pentameter isn't what I mean), you're likely to be warned/banned. And if you write something offensive and get flamed for it(by anyone) they're not going to be treated the same. I've told a person that 'You're a fucking piece of shit' and 'So go die a fire' because of they thought terrorism on civilians was justified. Had the mods disagreed that it was justified I would have been warned/banned, as I was in another case when I called someone an idiot. If the mods think you deserved what you got, then that's how it going to be.

I already agreed that I think Kwark goes too far sometimes, but this is an old boys club and he has been a longtime member that has earned the respect of far more people around here than you or I.


I suppose it is characteristic of the sheep to blindly follow the herd.

K, noone is asking you to stay around.
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
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